samo II Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Let it be known that Lee Johnson doesn't want to sign Evans so if he signs it is the boards decision. Guessing he'd resign then? If it's the case the board is cutting him out of transfer dealing (certainly one this divisive) then can't see him staying. Odds for LJ to be next Gillingham manager, anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Yawn. Why you yawning for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy62 Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Let it be known that Lee Johnson doesn't want to sign Evans so if he signs it is the boards decision. Has he said that Dave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
054123 Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Anyone listen to Serial? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Has he said that Dave? He has made it known apparently. In some papers and the fans know. The fans are furious and some have advised him to resign, even though they love him up there. Back up to Oldham tomorrow after Xmas holidays so get to hear all the goss! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy62 Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 He has made it known apparently. In some papers and the fans know. The fans are furious and some have advised him to resign, even though they love him up there. Back up to Oldham tomorrow after Xmas holidays so get to hear all the goss! Brilliant. Good on him. That's balanced out the universe a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Rizzle Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 He has made it known apparently. In some papers and the fans know. The fans are furious and some have advised him to resign, even though they love him up there. Back up to Oldham tomorrow after Xmas holidays so get to hear all the goss! Exactly, it's just gossip. We don't really know what LJ thinks but hope this is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Exactly, it's just gossip. We don't really know what LJ thinks but hope this is true. http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/ched-evans-to-oldham-exclusive-league-one-latics-manager-lee-johnson-against-idea-of-signing-evans-9956932.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dollymarie Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Allegedly;http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/ched-evans-to-oldham-exclusive-league-one-latics-manager-lee-johnson-against-idea-of-signing-evans-9956932.html The bloke has some principals... Shame on the board of directors then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samo II Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Allegedly; http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/ched-evans-to-oldham-exclusive-league-one-latics-manager-lee-johnson-against-idea-of-signing-evans-9956932.html The bloke has some principals... If what is reported there is the case, that is awful form from the board; placing LJ in a position where he is forced to defend a decision they've made that he doesn't agree with on what is a very contentious, and potentially tenure-defining issue. LJ's done a good job there; I don't know what point the board are trying to make, but undermining him like that won't encourage future applicants to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Again ignoring the argument of if he is guilty or not. As a convicted rapist I don't believe he should be playing professional football again. He wouldn't be allowed to return to be a teacher, lawyer , with children etc. And with the influence that being a professional footballer brings I see it as no difference. I'm not saying he shouldn't work again. Just not in a position of such influence. As for the argument of if he is guilty or not... Going off the basis that very few cases of rape even make it to court never mind get guilty verdicts due to lack of evidence... It suggests to me that there was more than enough evidence to say he was guilty. To compare football players with the professions of teacher, lawyer etc. is just plain daft. People going into these professions know up front that there is a degree of professional integrity that has to be upheld. Football players don't sign up to any thing other than top dollar. HIs influence? What influence? Is this the inane belief that kids will imitate his crime? I think some adults have forgotten how they thought when they were a child. When I watched the football greats as a kid, I wanted to 'play football' like my idol, not to imitate his private life (I wasn't interested in his private life). The influence that does take place is the diving, giving the ref jip and the things that take place on the field. This influence argument (in the context of crime) is utter crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 As to Oldham. I suspect that the crap the team will get will be bearable - taking grief from fans comes with the territory. It will be the ill feeling from within that will be the problem. If what's been said about LJ's feelings are true, that isn't going to be great for player manager relations. Some of the players will be indifferent, others will side with Ched and the remainder will be hostile. It will be this that will make or break Oldham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityexile Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 As to Oldham. I suspect that the crap the team will get will be bearable - taking grief from fans comes with the territory. It will be the ill feeling from within that will be the problem. If what's been said about LJ's feelings are true, that isn't going to be great for player manager relations. Some of the players will be indifferent, others will side with Ched and the remainder will be hostile. It will be this that will make or break Oldham. This is adding two and two and maybe coming uo with thirty seven, but if LJ has been involved for a few weeks and does not approve, it is at least a coincidence that their form has fallen off a cliff in that time. Rumours in the dressing room? After all this, now sounds like Oldham are now 'reconsidering'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBW Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 He's served his time. Let him play. Killers can. Personally not seen/heard enough evidence to feel he is guilty either. Never cared for him before but the "she was too drunk to consent" story is full of holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchred Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 sign him I say will score a hat-full at this level. Or shall we not let him work again and we all pay for him while he lives off the state? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 sign him I say will score a hat-full at this level. Or shall we not let him work again and we all pay for him while he lives off the state?just because he can't play football shouldn't stop him getting another job, of course nothing is stopping him other than fans and potential media backlash, but if no clubs want to take the risk then he should just get a 'regular' job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 To compare football players with the professions of teacher, lawyer etc. is just plain daft. People going into these professions know up front that there is a degree of professional integrity that has to be upheld. Football players don't sign up to any thing other than top dollar. HIs influence? What influence? Is this the inane belief that kids will imitate his crime? I think some adults have forgotten how they thought when they were a child. When I watched the football greats as a kid, I wanted to 'play football' like my idol, not to imitate his private life (I wasn't interested in his private life). The influence that does take place is the diving, giving the ref jip and the things that take place on the field. This influence argument (in the context of crime) is utter crap. I'm not sure it's as inane as you think. And it's this that makes it different to cases like Lee Hughes or Luke McCormack, where they did stupid things with dreadful consequences that nobody is ever going to want to replicate. But I think it would be naive to think that teenagers aren't influenced by the sexual behaviour of others. And ultimately if a football club reinforces the message that having sex with someone too drunk to consent isn't 'really' rape and that, even if you are convicted of rape, then - so long as you are good enough - you can walk out of prison and straight into your old job and everyone'll forget about it and thousands of people'll cheer you on regardless, I think that is a dangerous message to give out to teenagers. Especially in a case such as this where the woman's life has been absolutely shattered as a result of the abuse following the conviction - some of which came from members of Evans' own family. I'm not saying people will rush out and consciously copy Evans' behaviour but I do think all of us have a a responsibility to ensure that young men understand that women - and especially teenage girls - are not simply playthings for their entertainment. Letting Evans carry on without repercussions would badly undermine that message. Even more so given the fact that so many people seem to think the conviction was considerably more dubious, and based on far more spurious evidence, than was really the case. One more thing not covered on this thread btw (not specifically related to this). I do think one thing being missed in this discussion is that it's being set up as a polar discussion where people who believe in criminals' right to rehabilitation vs people who think that convicted rapists should never work again. But that's not really right. You can believe criminals should have a right to rehabilitation without believing somebody should walk out of prison and straight out of their old job without consequences. Rehabilitation of convicted criminals is important but rehabilitation can be (and perhaps should be) hard and involving the person putting a lot of work in to win back the trust of family, friends and employers, let alone society as a whole. I don't believe Evans should never be able to play football again but I do believe it should be a lot harder than simply him signing for someone and everyone forgetting about what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 He's served his time. Let him play. Killers can. Personally not seen/heard enough evidence to feel he is guilty either. Never cared for him before but the "she was too drunk to consent" story is full of holes. He's not served his time. So far he's served half his sentence and he's serving the rest of it on license. Again, it's fine if you've not seen or heard enough to feel he is guilty. But the jury did and ultimately he must therefore be considered to be a convicted rapist unless he succeeds with an appeal in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stortz Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 He's served his time. Let him play. Killers can. Personally not seen/heard enough evidence to feel he is guilty either. Never cared for him before but the "she was too drunk to consent" story is full of holes. The jury did. I'm guessing that you haven't seen all of the evidence that they have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchred Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 just because he can't play football shouldn't stop him getting another job, of course nothing is stopping him other than fans and potential media backlash, but if no clubs want to take the risk then he should just get a 'regular' job So its ok for him to be a (mechanic, plumber, office manager, pilot etc etc) but not play football? where do you draw the line then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 So its ok for him to be a (mechanic, plumber, office manager, pilot etc etc) but not play football? where do you draw the line then? He'd probably need a fair bit of training before he could become a pilot. But - bar any professions where sex offenders are prohibited from working - the line gets drawn where people are prepared to hire him. If a football club is willing to take him on, that's their decision (and I find it odd that so many people on this thread can't understand that the fact a lot of people would vociferously object to a club signing Ched Evans does NOT mean that clubs can't sign him - just that they'd need to be prepared for the PR backlash and division it would sew if they did) but, if no club does take him on, he'll have to take whatever job he could take. But, if he cannot get another football club, there's no reason it then follows he'd be claiming off the state as another poster had claimed. Especially as I suspect he'd be way over the saving threshold for benefits anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 So its ok for him to be a (mechanic, plumber, office manager, pilot etc etc) but not play football? where do you draw the line then? Not quite the idea im trying to say, as a footballer he has a more priveledged job with much much higher money and is expected to be a role model off the pitch, a plumber, mechanic etc isn't going to be on TV regularly (as Ched could have been had he kicked on while at Man utd). No solution to the situation will please everyone, but would you really want kids pretending to be a convicted rapist (as he currently is, rightly or wrongly) when playing with their mates, or idolising him if he does well for whichever club he signs for. I personally wouldn't and I guess there is an element of hypocrisy to this view in what jobs he should be allowed, but that is how I see it. Maybe as I get a little older my views will change, but this is the way I see it for now. (Not trying to assume you are old, but after the poll on here a while ago most posters are older than me, though I am still arguabley a young 'un) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View from the Dolman Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cider-manc Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 To compare football players with the professions of teacher, lawyer etc. is just plain daft. People going into these professions know up front that there is a degree of professional integrity that has to be upheld. Football players don't sign up to any thing other than top dollar. HIs influence? What influence? Is this the inane belief that kids will imitate his crime? I think some adults have forgotten how they thought when they were a child. When I watched the football greats as a kid, I wanted to 'play football' like my idol, not to imitate his private life (I wasn't interested in his private life). The influence that does take place is the diving, giving the ref jip and the things that take place on the field. This influence argument (in the context of crime) is utter crap. I see players as role models to children- As do many others. their influence is greater than at any other time thanks to the media and especially social media. No I wasn't interested in a player's life growing up but then the information was not easily available to me, perhaps if it was I would have been. I'm not saying that kids will copycat the incident but to put a convicted rapist in a situation where he can be idolised by children I just don't agree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFiGO!?! Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 A privelegded job nonetheless, would you rather a desk job or be a footballer if the same money was offered?Not a lot of career prospects for most footballers after 35. Presumably, at 25, Evans will take anything he can, build on that and hope his history will be left behind. Besides, it's also unlikely he has the capabilility to do much more than the most basic of jobs - but that's pure speculation on my part. In a sense, he's most unfortunate that his preferred job is a high profile one. Still find it socially irresponsible to allow a convicted rapist to maintain a glamorous profession, but hey, there's clearly no niech in the market to be blogging about that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Not a lot of career prospects for most footballers after 35. Presumably, at 25, Evans will take anything he can, build on that and hope his history will be left behind. Besides, it's also unlikely he has the capabilility to do much more than the most basic of jobs - but that's pure speculation on my part. In a sense, he's most unfortunate that his preferred job is a high profile one. Still find it socially irresponsible to allow a convicted rapist to maintain a glamorous profession, but hey, there's clearly no niech in the market to be blogging about that I agree to an extent, however there is nothing to stop a footballer doing a degree while they do their career to provide options for after, there a quite a few who do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 I'm out now anyway, I've made my view. I lose all faith in our society when the pitchfork mob come out and believe anything that they're spoonfed, and distort 'facts' to suit their argument. It's a very sketchy case, and as an open-minded person I am reserving judgement, particularly given a footballers' susceptibility to falling foul of a mentalist of a woman (I'm not insinuating that about her, I don't know anything about her). I also think to label him as a convicted rapist (which he technically is yes) and tarnish him with everything that comes with it is dangerous given that in my opinion 95% of rapists have actually committed far worse crimes than he did, even if he is genuinely guilty. I can understand why a business wouldn't want to employ him but he has every right to be a pro footballer again if a club wants to take him on, and rightly so. Is "NE" short for Neanderthal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Allegedly;http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/ched-evans-to-oldham-exclusive-league-one-latics-manager-lee-johnson-against-idea-of-signing-evans-9956932.html The bloke has some principals... If Oldham sign Evans against the wishes of Lee Johnson, then as Lee is wealthy enough from his time as a player who invested his money very profitably in property, he certainly does not have a financial reason for not resigning. If your chairman signs this person, Lee, do the decent thing and walk away from Boundary Park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dollymarie Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2015/jan/05/ched-evans-victim-website Brilliant article. Every one of you defending Evans should read this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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