Red-Robbo Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 he can't sign for a club abroad as he's out on license only, ( I think thats the case some one correct me if I'm wrong) There would be a probation element, although this isn't supposed to stop people working. But my thoughts are that he should stay and carry on whatever legal battle he has under way and if he loses accept he can realistically never expect to get an English club again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 So much discussion about something that is essentially objective. The man is guilty - not much point in discussing that. And we all know that the modern world wants it's pound of flesh for any misdemeanor. The smartphone decides, not common sense or anything else. Exactly! The law has and continues to take its course as it seems Evans is out on parole In this case it cuts both ways it would appear (smartphone/internet). On the one side the you have a website that seems to be covertly encouraging harassment of the victim by Evans supporters, on the other hand you have 92 fans forums up and down the country saying the same things. This issue is now rightly or wrongly in the court of public opinion. I would suggest that when in the entertainment business people (yes football is the entertainment business) have the choice of whether to spend their money and on top of that the clubs sponsors will want nothing to do with anything that might taint their image, as has already been stated by sponsors at Oldham. If I was Evans advisor I would tell him to take the website down, distance himself from harassment of the victim of the crime and state that he takes responsibility for his actions in some meaningful way. This might find him support from offenders groups and might go some way to placate the many who, like me, find him an odious little creep who put HIMSELF in a outrageously stupid position and hence possibly find a club that can justify negotiating a playing contract to its supporters and sponsors. Ched Evans future is in Ched Evans hands, as it always has been! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 But he isn't personally directing Twitter trolls is he. It seems to me it is pointless for him trying to get a club in the UK until all his legal appeals have been exhausted, at which time he will either be exhonerated or accept he will be treated as a guilty man, regardless of what he says. Rightly or wrongly, the case has become a media circus and while I agree with Marcus X that it is remarkable that there was no outcry about players who killed people returning to the game, that doesn't detract from the fact that Evans really needs to get real and accept that he isn't going to play league football in England. As someone else has noted, he doesn't seem to be particularly bright. Or well advised. I'd certainly agree with the last statement. And I think that his girlfriend's father and the others involved in the campaign to clear him need to think seriously about the damage the website is doing. The issue with whether he's directing the Twitter trolls - he's not directing them explictly (although I believe at least one is a member of his family) but I would say that 1) His website is creating a lot of the hostility towards the victim and he seriously needs to take it down or rephrase it. 2) He obviously knows she's been harassed on his behalf and this has resulted in her having to change her identity and address several times. And it would be very much in his power and his interests to put something on his website stating that targeting her, aside from anything else, does not help his public image or his chances of appeal. He might not be the one doing it or directing people to do it but, if people are publicly doing that on your behalf and you don't speak out, it's reasonable for people to assume you support their actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 I still find it breathtaking his girlfriend & her father still support him. Whatever you think of him, that bit just leaves me confused.. why would you stand by him after what he's done.. pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 I still find it breathtaking his girlfriend & her father still support him. Whatever you think of him, that bit just leaves me confused.. why would you stand by him after what he's done.. pass. Money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Money? Her father is a multi-millionaire so not likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Team In Keynsham Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 I still find it breathtaking his girlfriend & her father still support him. Whatever you think of him, that bit just leaves me confused.. why would you stand by him after what he's done.. pass. People stand by partners for a host of reasons: love, stupidity, offer of a payout, etc. No idea if any of these apply to his girlfriend, but you would imagine that one or more of her friends must have questioned why she is standing by a convicted rapist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 I'd say a number of reasons. Firstly the power of social media etc has vastly strengthened over recent years so fans are better able to make their voices heard over these things than they were in the past. Furthermore this has made companies and brands more aware that they can't act unethically and simply get friends in the media to cover it up - people will raises issues on Twitter. Secondly I think in recent years - in part due to the Saville and Harris cases and in part due to women gaining a stronger voice in the media - we take sex offending far more seriously than we used to as a society. If Evans had done this five years ago I think it would be far more likely to have been glossed over. We live in an age where that no longer happens. Thirdly and crucially, none of Hughes, McCormack or even King have created websites that vilified their victims. Evans' case has gone far beyond him not showing remorse and into his supporters continuing to make his victim's life hell. You are probably right, social media is probably playing a big role in this because its easier for people to voice an opinion and the media will use this to create a story. To be fair, Hughes and McCormack had no defense whatsoever, and even King's case was more cut and dry. I dont think Evans is encouraging anyone to continue to chase this girl, but you are right his website doesnt help. However, if he does genuinely believe he has been stitched up by this girl then he is going to feel aggreived. Worth remembering this victim did brag on twitter about her "big win" and treating her friends to holidays and cars - make of that what you will. It's the hypocrisy that doesnt sit well with me, like I say everyone kicking up a sh*tstorm whilst other rapists and murderers have continued to earn a living in the public eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 I still find it breathtaking his girlfriend & her father still support him. Whatever you think of him, that bit just leaves me confused.. why would you stand by him after what he's done.. pass. I can understand it. She was in a relationship with a popular, respected professional footballer, which would have conferred a certain status and given her a certain element of validation for her sense of self-worth. To suddenly have him publicly decried and outed as a convicted rapist would destroy that and now she's got two choices: a) Accept she's spent however many years of her life in love with a sex offender without realising his true nature and endure the perceived public humiliation that comes with that. b) Try to convince the rest of the world that they've made a mistake and he is is the popular respected footballer everyone thought he was. I can see why a) is a tough option to swallow. Furthermore there's still a public relief that rapists are terrible monsters and that, if someone doesn't come across as a terrible monster, they can't be a rapist. Far too many women would tell you that's not true and that otherwise pleasant and friendly people can commit shocking acts that don't fit in with the rest of their character. But still I can see why she would think 'he doesn't seem to me like a rapist so how can he possibly be one?' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 I see both your points about the Girlfriend. I guess its more the Father. If it was my Daughter dating him, I'd not give him the time of day after the incident. Guess everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 You are probably right, social media is probably playing a big role in this because its easier for people to voice an opinion and the media will use this to create a story. To be fair, Hughes and McCormack had no defense whatsoever, and even King's case was more cut and dry. I dont think Evans is encouraging anyone to continue to chase this girl, but you are right his website doesnt help. However, if he does genuinely believe he has been stitched up by this girl then he is going to feel aggreived. Worth remembering this victim did brag on twitter about her "big win" and treating her friends to holidays and cars - make of that what you will. It's the hypocrisy that doesnt sit well with me, like I say everyone kicking up a sh*tstorm whilst other rapists and murderers have continued to earn a living in the public eye. Worth remembering the courts dismissed that as inconclusive and is being spun somewhat by Evans' team. She made some Twitter comments about what she'd do 'if she won big'. It wasn't at all clear if she was talking about the case or fantasising about lottery wins as lots of people do. It's worth remembering she didn't initially make an allegation of rape but merely reported a missing handbag in a kebab shop so she didn't actively seek to implicate Evans in a crime and there's no evidence she's ever tried to cash in on the story - and also that, even in the defence's case, there's no material dispute of the fact she may well not remember the events of the evening so the idea she's lying is a hard one to sell and it would be even if Evans were innocent. It's also worth remembering that people deal with traumatic experiences in different ways - even if she was fantasising about getting compensation from the case - which is far from clear - that has no real bearing on whether or not she really was a victim of a crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 I see both your points about the Girlfriend. I guess its more the Father. If it was my Daughter dating him, I'd not give him the time of day after the incident. Guess everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I agree. If my daughter's boyfriend cheated on her in a consensual act I wouldn't have any time for him - this is obviously worse. Worth remembering the courts dismissed that as inconclusive and is being spun somewhat by Evans' team. She made some Twitter comments about what she'd do 'if she won big'. It wasn't at all clear if she was talking about the case or fantasising about lottery wins as lots of people do. It's worth remembering she didn't initially make an allegation of rape but merely reported a missing handbag in a kebab shop so she didn't actively seek to implicate Evans in a crime and there's no evidence she's ever tried to cash in on the story - and also that, even in the defence's case, there's no material dispute of the fact she may well not remember the events of the evening so the idea she's lying is a hard one to sell and it would be even if Evans were innocent. It's also worth remembering that people deal with traumatic experiences in different ways - even if she was fantasising about getting compensation from the case - which is far from clear - that has no real bearing on whether or not she really was a victim of a crime. This is true, and you can look at it either way. I know how i would be feeling in Ched's situation though IF his version of events is true. It was a slightly antagonistic comment to be fair, I'm just saying I can see why he feels how he does - not that it makes it right. I've already said on the previous topic about this that I feel he has handled the whole situation terribly and his first action should have been to at least apologise for the hurt that has been caused, that doesnt admit guilt but it shows an appreciation for what his actions have done and would have shown at least an element of remorse and he would probably have more luck finding a club to play for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sodburyred Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Her father is a multi-millionaire so not likely. He may be rich but all Ched needs to do is get back playing how he was before and in 5 years he'll probably be richer. I do find it very confusing that he would stand by him though. For CE to openly admit to cheating when and with who he wanted ( what was the quote he used " we can have any girl we want in clubs, we're footballers and all girls want us" or words to that effect). Very strange for a loving father to want to stick up for him. Maybe hes not as wealthy as they might have you believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Why on Earth do people always invoke 'common sense' as being on their side? People use 'Common sense' as a short hand for 'MY opinion and I'm OBVIOUSLY correct' but the phrase merely means what the common (i.e. average) person thinks is sensible. For a start there's no guarantee the average person is right, especially in something which really involves understanding of the case and relevant laws, which not everyone will have. Secondly, in something which is very clearly divisive such as this, it's pretty clear society is pretty divided over the subject. 'Common sense' doesn't really apply. Excellent post. It was "common sense" that witches existed and should be persecuted. By and large, it was judges that restrained the public enthusiasm for hanging them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Money? It's been stated here that her family is independently wealthy. No idea whether that's true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 I'd certainly agree with the last statement. And I think that his girlfriend's father and the others involved in the campaign to clear him need to think seriously about the damage the website is doing. The issue with whether he's directing the Twitter trolls - he's not directing them explictly (although I believe at least one is a member of his family) but I would say that 1) His website is creating a lot of the hostility towards the victim and he seriously needs to take it down or rephrase it. 2) He obviously knows she's been harassed on his behalf and this has resulted in her having to change her identity and address several times. And it would be very much in his power and his interests to put something on his website stating that targeting her, aside from anything else, does not help his public image or his chances of appeal. He might not be the one doing it or directing people to do it but, if people are publicly doing that on your behalf and you don't speak out, it's reasonable for people to assume you support their actions. Very reasonable points. I can see why someone claiming innocence cannot show remorse, but more contrition for his actions - and a recognition that the girl involved should be left alone - would go a way to making Evans seem less loathsome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
054123 Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Im confused now, has a verdict been reached, a sentace imposed and a punishment been served or not? I must have missed the bit about not being allowed to play football again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Im confused now, has a verdict been reached, a sentace imposed and a punishment been served or not? I must have missed the bit about not being allowed to play football again. He is not aloud to be coach or a director at a football club due to signing the sex register I believe it should be extended to playing professionally as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 054213 - I'm confused too. Where has anyone said he's not allowed to play football again? He wouldn't be able to own or be on the board of a club as he would not pass the fit and proper person's test but he's allowed to play football again so long as a club agrees to sign him. That's not in dispute. However the fact he's allowed to play football again does not mean a club is obliged to sign him. And a it doesn't mean fans don't have the right to voice reservations about the signing nor that he's exempt from the PR backlash involved in being a high profile sex offender. People saying they don't want their club to sign him, and clubs deciding not to sign him due to the public reaction, is not the same thing as him being banned from being signed by anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marina's Rolls Royce Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 It's been stated here that her family is independently wealthy. No idea whether that's true. My family is independently wealthy too. Unfortunately the wealth is independent of me and that is true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 The punishment that this young man has (probably) rightfully had to endure for the drunken actions of two young people has included a long period of imprisonment, the loss of all his wealth due to legal fees, the loss of his reputation and now he is being denied the right to earn a living in the only way he knows . It is difficult to imagine how much more punishment could be inflicted for his stupid behaviour. Maybe he should have various body parts severed and be put in the stocks for years to come? Maybe his continued protestations of his own innocence are some indication that he is either very stupid or really feels that there has been a miscarriage of justice. Maybe he is the only one who knows that the victim was not actually unconscious and may not have objected at the time. The reality of his situation is that he cannot PROVE his case - unlike all the hangers and floggers on this site and elsewhere, who seem to be experts in the case. In the meantime this young man has to have some way of rebuilding his life. If the justice system thinks he has served sufficient time in prison, why don't we all just accept this and let him just get on with his life. If he plays professional football again he will be the subject of chants and abuse for the rest of his career. His response to his case was clumsy and shows that he is not very bright - so does he really deserved to go on being kicked for the rest of his life when worse outrages and thousands of rapes in certain towns and cities seem to be lightly investigated for fear or seeming racist. He is not (as far a I know) a serial offender - so maybe it is time for a bit more balance? The protestation of innocence bears similarities to the Amanda Knox case. If you feel there has been a miscarriage of justice, I guess you're not going to apologise for what you've 'done', you're going to argue till you're blue in the face that you didn't do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marina's Rolls Royce Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 What fascinates me about this whole thing is that if you're convicted of fraud then you can't work in various professions like Law or financial services. If you are made bankrupt- there's loads of restrictions, if you are convicted of smoking pot then same again and may not be able to travel to certain countries and if you wallop a sag- then you get a football banning order/life ban. If you are on the sex register then you can't work with youngsters etc. HoweverI f you're convicted of rape/ man slaughter/serious assault then the FA say OK carry on playing and is supported by PFA . What load of shit. I understand Evans trying to get a new job but the fact that the FA & PFA support the above which the rest of society don't then there's something really really wrong with their standards and are utter hypocrites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 As I said before, I think he probably caught Sheff Utd unawares with his pathetic excuse of what they expected to be some form of apology, but he only actually apologised to his girlfriend and used the chance to repeat his believed innocence. IMO, had he said for instance, 'I am really sorry for what happened on that night and if I could turn the clock back then of course I would. it was a sorry, sordid thing to get involved in and I am deeply ashamed. As you will be aware I am currently exploring legal challenges to my conviction and have been advised to allow that to take it's course and I would ask that myself and my family and of course the girl involved in this case be left to go about our daily lives in peace until those legal challenges have finished and a decision reached'. Job done, no admission of guilt but one of understanding and contrition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marina's Rolls Royce Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 And whilst I'm on my rant How come Alan Pardew doesn't get a football banning order for head butting a player off the pitch? If I had head butted a player- It would be a life ban for me and surrender of passport when England play. If a West Ham fan had kung fooed Cantona- they'd most likely have served time and be banned for life. None of the above is acceptable but the FA seem to think it is- so long as it's footballers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 What fascinates me about this whole thing is that if you're convicted of fraud then you can't work in various professions like Law or financial services. If you are made bankrupt- there's loads of restrictions, if you are convicted of smoking pot then same again and may not be able to travel to certain countries and if you wallop a sag- then you get a football banning order/life ban. If you are on the sex register then you can't work with youngsters etc. HoweverI f you're convicted of rape/ man slaughter/serious assault then the FA say OK carry on playing and is supported by PFA . What load of shit. I understand Evans trying to get a new job but the fact that the FA & PFA support the above which the rest of society don't then there's something really really wrong with their standards and are utter hypocrites. I see the connection between fraud and financial services, between bankruptcy and company offices, and between football violence and football attendance, but I honestly don't see the connection between "rape/ man slaughter/serious assault" and playing football. Maybe I'm missing something but I don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 I see the connection between fraud and financial services, between bankruptcy and company offices, and between football violence and football attendance, but I honestly don't see the connection between "rape/ man slaughter/serious assault" and playing football. Maybe I'm missing something but I don't think so. I don't think Evans should be actually banned from playing (though I think any club would be sending out the wrong message by signing him) but I don't think all existing bans in football relate directly to the activity being carried out. a) similar convictions to Evans would mean someone fails a fit and proper person's test to own a football club, even though rape and serious assault aren't directly relevant to whether you should be able to own a football club. b) Failing a drugs test for recreational substances - e.g. cocaine or cannabis - would lead to bans from playing football even though clearly cocaine and cannabis would not enhance, and would probably hinder, your ability to play football. Neither of those things exist because the offence itself directly affects the activity being carried out - clearly there is a moral judgement at play so it wouldn't actually be a break from those precedents if sex offenders were banned from playing professional football. On a side note, what happens with people like Evans in terms of the fact he'd presumably come into contact with the youth team (and perhaps girls' teams too? Presumably he'd be banned from spending any unsupervised time with them but I'm curious to know how it'd work in practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 I don't think Evans should be actually banned from playing (though I think any club would be sending out the wrong message by signing him) but I don't think all existing bans in football relate directly to the activity being carried out. a) similar convictions to Evans would mean someone fails a fit and proper person's test to own a football club, even though rape and serious assault aren't directly relevant to whether you should be able to own a football club. b) Failing a drugs test for recreational substances - e.g. cocaine or cannabis - would lead to bans from playing football even though clearly cocaine and cannabis would not enhance, and would probably hinder, your ability to play football. Neither of those things exist because the offence itself directly affects the activity being carried out - clearly there is a moral judgement at play so it wouldn't actually be a break from those precedents if sex offenders were banned from playing professional football. On a side note, what happens with people like Evans in terms of the fact he'd presumably come into contact with the youth team (and perhaps girls' teams too? Presumably he'd be banned from spending any unsupervised time with them but I'm curious to know how it'd work in practice. Actually was wondering this myself, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 How about the dear old PFA, employing Evans (for the time being anyway, until the latest appeal is done and dusted) an opportunity to lecture young academy players on how bad choices on a boys night out can **** your, career, reputation and life up in one fell swoop, again no admission of guilt but may help young players in the long run and look good for him leading up to his appeal. As for Oldham for all of their posturing, I suspect the loss of 2 and possibly 3 sponsors, would be putting the club in peril. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 I don't think Evans should be actually banned from playing (though I think any club would be sending out the wrong message by signing him) but I don't think all existing bans in football relate directly to the activity being carried out. a) similar convictions to Evans would mean someone fails a fit and proper person's test to own a football club, even though rape and serious assault aren't directly relevant to whether you should be able to own a football club. b) Failing a drugs test for recreational substances - e.g. cocaine or cannabis - would lead to bans from playing football even though clearly cocaine and cannabis would not enhance, and would probably hinder, your ability to play football. Neither of those things exist because the offence itself directly affects the activity being carried out - clearly there is a moral judgement at play so it wouldn't actually be a break from those precedents if sex offenders were banned from playing professional football. On a side note, what happens with people like Evans in terms of the fact he'd presumably come into contact with the youth team (and perhaps girls' teams too? Presumably he'd be banned from spending any unsupervised time with them but I'm curious to know how it'd work in practice. I'm not sure (a) is relevant, and (b) would involve a fixed period of suspension, not a life ban. Your side note is interesting though. How much contact do first team players have with the youth team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 I'm not sure (a) is relevant, and (b) would involve a fixed period of suspension, not a life ban. Your side note is interesting though. How much contact do first team players have with the youth team? There maybe another side note. I suspect not all footballers wives are the vacuous wags that push themselves in front of the nearest camera when they spot one and the better educated of them might not feel to good with hubby having to show support for a convicted rapist and of course managers tending to be older might have double the problem not only explaining to their wives but to their daughters as well. I feel for Little Lee, he doesn't look comfortable to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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