Vincent Vega Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2015/jan/05/ched-evans-victim-website Anybody that still defends him needs a long hard look at themselves.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Oldham now getting cold feet apparently... http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30678251 To be honest, this an utter farce. To some extent, I can sympathise with Sheffield United who I suspect were utterly shocked by the backlash to the possibility of re-signing him (and, to be fair to them, I suspect they were in discussions with him before they knew about things like the damaging website and the pitiful excuse for an 'apology'). But Oldham should have had an idea what they were getting into. Whilst I think any club would be ill-advised to sign him because he's a PR disaster, I do accept - if not agree with - the views of a club wanting to offer him a contract as a way of rehabilitating him so long as they are prepared for that backlash. And,whilst I have absolutely no sympathy for the guy and this is a mess of his own doing, I don't think it's fair on him or his victim that clubs keep suggesting they'll offer him a contract, dangle that in front of the media for a few days and then back away when it becomes too tough to handle. Personally I think it's in everyone's interests that Evans takes a year or so out of football, works to rehabilitate himself and show he wants to repair the damage he's caused and then try to find a new club once his appeal is resolved and, if he is not successful, he has appreciated the severity of what he has done, shown genuine remorse and learned from the experience. But I also think that this media circus is doing more harm than good and no club should be letting their intentions to sign him leak into the public domain (Gordon Taylor has to take some responsibility here of course) unless they're prepared to go through with that and ride out the PR storm. Having this 'should a club sign him' debate every few weeks just keeps the story in the media and has to be stressful for the victim beyond all else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Peacock Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 As a convicted rapist I don't believe he should be playing professional football again. . You may want to rephrase that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marina's Rolls Royce Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 No doubt someone will blame Lee Johnson. What I really really fail to understand is why any Chairman ANYWHERE in the UK would entertain the thought of signing a toxic liability? I mean if he was Lionel Messi on a free then you could almost understand a club in deep shit wanting to take a risk of bad brand image v staying up etc. But this is Ched Evans FFS - a capable striker from L1- out of the game for a few years and likely to alienate the fans/locals at any place he goes. He's served his sentence and wants to play football again which his right and the FA said yes - so be it but it doesn't seem likely. I don't believe for a minute that Lee Johnson would be involved. One day SC will move on from City and I think Lee ( if he keeps progressing- still the youngest Manager in the football League) would be a strong candidate for us in the future. If he did leave Oldham over this- there are bigger clubs than Gillingham who would want to appoint him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 I feel a bit for Lee Johnson here (if its true thats he's against signing this scum) He is a Young all be it talented manager but if he were to resign he may find it hard to get another Job in management, Does he resign and risk not getting employed elseware or continue to do a job he loves?, Personally I think in public he will grin and bear it and be forced to defend the actions of the clubs board but in private he will be looking to get another job asap, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Sun saying Oldham have pulled out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted January 5, 2015 Admin Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Sun saying Oldham have pulled out The Oldham directors are meeting later today to discuss this Ched has been advised not to train with them today, pending this decision The outcome may not be announced until tomorrow - expect the Oldham legal team need to be careful how any announcement is made I noticed the sponsors of their main stand will pull all ties if he signs on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cider-manc Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 You may want to rephrase that? Oops!! didn't read that back before posting did I! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 I noticed the sponsors of their main stand will pull all ties if he signs on That's interesting, I wonder who they may have employed themselves under the Rehabilitation of Offenders act over the years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Running Man Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 I feel a bit for Lee Johnson here (if its true thats he's against signing this scum) He is a Young all be it talented manager but if he were to resign he may find it hard to get another Job in management, Does he resign and risk not getting employed elseware or continue to do a job he loves?, Personally I think in public he will grin and bear it and be forced to defend the actions of the clubs board but in private he will be looking to get another job asap, News on 5 Live this morning said that Little Lee was against it but was over-ruled by the BOD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted January 5, 2015 Admin Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 That's interesting, I wonder who they may have employed themselves under the Rehabilitation of Offenders act over the years? That's not really the issue, it's not that everyone has to employ x% of ex offenders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 That's not really the issue, it's not that everyone has to employ x% of ex offenders Sorry Phantom, what I meant was they could be happy to employ someone like Evans themselves and yet threaten to withdraw their support for OAFC if they do the same. Hypothetically speaking of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Sorry Phantom, what I meant was they could be happy to employ someone like Evans themselves and yet threaten to withdraw their support for OAFC if they do the same. Hypothetically speaking of course. Sure but you've got to remember this isn't simply an issue of whether or not you think offenders should be rehabilitated. It's quite easy to think - as I do - that offenders should be offered opportunities of rehabilitation if they show remorse and an attitude where they want to make amends for their crime and simultaneously think that Evans' behaviour since his release - in terms of the website and the interview - is utterly appalling (and I'll stress, even if he subsequently gets cleared on appeal, I will continue to think his behaviour around the website and interview is utterly appalling) and not something you'd want your company to be associated with. It's one thing to support the rehabilitation of offenders and another to support someone whose associates have hounded an innocent person into moving house and changing their name five times and set up a website to peddle stereotypes and myths about her behaviour, including facts which have already been judged by a jury in a court of law. What's important to remember is that, even if Evans were innocent, there's no suggestion she has lied or deceived anyone around what's happened. The fact she simply cannot remember what happened - which must be terrifying in itself - isn't really in dispute. Not forgetting that he's so far failed to appeal twice and there's no clear reason to believe he will be cleared in the future. Unless he ever is, despite his protestations of innocence, he must be considered guilty. Being in favour of rehabilitating offenders does not mean you have to offer opportunities to EVERY offender, no matter their conduct, behaviour or willingness to take responsibility for their behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bat Fastard Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 The punishment that this young man has (probably) rightfully had to endure for the drunken actions of two young people has included a long period of imprisonment, the loss of all his wealth due to legal fees, the loss of his reputation and now he is being denied the right to earn a living in the only way he knows . It is difficult to imagine how much more punishment could be inflicted for his stupid behaviour. Maybe he should have various body parts severed and be put in the stocks for years to come? Maybe his continued protestations of his own innocence are some indication that he is either very stupid or really feels that there has been a miscarriage of justice. Maybe he is the only one who knows that the victim was not actually unconscious and may not have objected at the time. The reality of his situation is that he cannot PROVE his case - unlike all the hangers and floggers on this site and elsewhere, who seem to be experts in the case. In the meantime this young man has to have some way of rebuilding his life. If the justice system thinks he has served sufficient time in prison, why don't we all just accept this and let him just get on with his life. If he plays professional football again he will be the subject of chants and abuse for the rest of his career. His response to his case was clumsy and shows that he is not very bright - so does he really deserved to go on being kicked for the rest of his life when worse outrages and thousands of rapes in certain towns and cities seem to be lightly investigated for fear or seeming racist. He is not (as far a I know) a serial offender - so maybe it is time for a bit more balance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 The punishment that this young man has (probably) rightfully had to endure for the drunken actions of two young people has included a long period of imprisonment, the loss of all his wealth due to legal fees, the loss of his reputation and now he is being denied the right to earn a living in the only way he knows . It is difficult to imagine how much more punishment could be inflicted for his stupid behaviour. Maybe he should have various body parts severed and be put in the stocks for years to come? Maybe his continued protestations of his own innocence are some indication that he is either very stupid or really feels that there has been a miscarriage of justice. Maybe he is the only one who knows that the victim was not actually unconscious and may not have objected at the time. The reality of his situation is that he cannot PROVE his case - unlike all the hangers and floggers on this site and elsewhere, who seem to be experts in the case. In the meantime this young man has to have some way of rebuilding his life. If the justice system thinks he has served sufficient time in prison, why don't we all just accept this and let him just get on with his life. If he plays professional football again he will be the subject of chants and abuse for the rest of his career. His response to his case was clumsy and shows that he is not very bright - so does he really deserved to go on being kicked for the rest of his life when worse outrages and thousands of rapes in certain towns and cities seem to be lightly investigated for fear or seeming racist. He is not (as far a I know) a serial offender - so maybe it is time for a bit more balance? nothing stopping him from working in construction or at a supermarket or as I like to call it the real world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 nothing stopping him from working in construction or at a supermarket or as I like to call it the real world Do I detect a certain degree of jealousy there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 What I dont understand is why the sudden issue with Evan's case in particular? There is a precendant set for ex-offenders to return to football. If Evans isnt allowed then I assume others shall be forced out of their clubs? King was allowed to play again, despite the fact he is a grade-A see you next tuesday and has re-offended multiple times Hughes was allowed to play again, he killed a man, fled the scene, denied the charge and is reported to have shown no remorse at all - yet many on here seem to "look out" for FGR results and wish them well (no hypocrisy at all, obviously) Luke McCormack killed two people whilst drink driving - again he is allowed to play with no huge media circus. And outside of football, as already mentioned, Mike Tyson was allowed to continue to box and earn millions. I imagine the majority of people who have signed the petition and are kicking up a fuss have probably watched one of the Hangover films... again, no hypocrisy at all there. I'm sure there are many more examples Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sodburyred Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 nothing stopping him from working in construction or at a supermarket or as I like to call it the real world I cant be assed to get into the debate this time around. But I wonder what he's planning on doing after his football carrier. People keep saying the only job he knows how to do is football . But what after he's done kicking a football, he cant be a coach as he would be a convicted sex offender and coach's would surely have to adhere to rules like teachers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 I cant be assed to get into the debate this time around. But I wonder what he's planning on doing after his football carrier. People keep saying the only job he knows how to do is football . But what after he's done kicking a football, he cant be a coach as he would be a convicted sex offender and coach's would surely have to adhere to rules like teachers. He could try selling investments to other ex-footballers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 The punishment that this young man has (probably) rightfully had to endure for the drunken actions of two young people has included a long period of imprisonment, the loss of all his wealth due to legal fees, the loss of his reputation and now he is being denied the right to earn a living in the only way he knows . It is difficult to imagine how much more punishment could be inflicted for his stupid behaviour. Maybe he should have various body parts severed and be put in the stocks for years to come? Maybe his continued protestations of his own innocence are some indication that he is either very stupid or really feels that there has been a miscarriage of justice. Maybe he is the only one who knows that the victim was not actually unconscious and may not have objected at the time. The reality of his situation is that he cannot PROVE his case - unlike all the hangers and floggers on this site and elsewhere, who seem to be experts in the case. In the meantime this young man has to have some way of rebuilding his life. If the justice system thinks he has served sufficient time in prison, why don't we all just accept this and let him just get on with his life. If he plays professional football again he will be the subject of chants and abuse for the rest of his career. His response to his case was clumsy and shows that he is not very bright - so does he really deserved to go on being kicked for the rest of his life when worse outrages and thousands of rapes in certain towns and cities seem to be lightly investigated for fear or seeming racist. He is not (as far a I know) a serial offender - so maybe it is time for a bit more balance? Poor old Ched... .and the real victim what about her ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Do I detect a certain degree of jealousy there? I'm not jealous of footballers, I'd love to earn that sort of money don't get me wrong, but I'm not jealous one jot, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 What I dont understand is why the sudden issue with Evan's case in particular? There is a precendant set for ex-offenders to return to football. If Evans isnt allowed then I assume others shall be forced out of their clubs? King was allowed to play again, despite the fact he is a grade-A see you next tuesday and has re-offended multiple times Hughes was allowed to play again, he killed a man, fled the scene, denied the charge and is reported to have shown no remorse at all - yet many on here seem to "look out" for FGR results and wish them well (no hypocrisy at all, obviously) Luke McCormack killed two people whilst drink driving - again he is allowed to play with no huge media circus. And outside of football, as already mentioned, Mike Tyson was allowed to continue to box and earn millions. I imagine the majority of people who have signed the petition and are kicking up a fuss have probably watched one of the Hangover films... again, no hypocrisy at all there. I'm sure there are many more examples I'd say a number of reasons. Firstly the power of social media etc has vastly strengthened over recent years so fans are better able to make their voices heard over these things than they were in the past. Furthermore this has made companies and brands more aware that they can't act unethically and simply get friends in the media to cover it up - people will raises issues on Twitter. Secondly I think in recent years - in part due to the Saville and Harris cases and in part due to women gaining a stronger voice in the media - we take sex offending far more seriously than we used to as a society. If Evans had done this five years ago I think it would be far more likely to have been glossed over. We live in an age where that no longer happens. Thirdly and crucially, none of Hughes, McCormack or even King have created websites that vilified their victims. Evans' case has gone far beyond him not showing remorse and into his supporters continuing to make his victim's life hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 The punishment that this young man has (probably) rightfully had to endure for the drunken actions of two young people has included a long period of imprisonment, the loss of all his wealth due to legal fees, the loss of his reputation and now he is being denied the right to earn a living in the only way he knows . It is difficult to imagine how much more punishment could be inflicted for his stupid behaviour. Maybe he should have various body parts severed and be put in the stocks for years to come? Maybe his continued protestations of his own innocence are some indication that he is either very stupid or really feels that there has been a miscarriage of justice. Maybe he is the only one who knows that the victim was not actually unconscious and may not have objected at the time. The reality of his situation is that he cannot PROVE his case - unlike all the hangers and floggers on this site and elsewhere, who seem to be experts in the case. In the meantime this young man has to have some way of rebuilding his life. If the justice system thinks he has served sufficient time in prison, why don't we all just accept this and let him just get on with his life. If he plays professional football again he will be the subject of chants and abuse for the rest of his career. His response to his case was clumsy and shows that he is not very bright - so does he really deserved to go on being kicked for the rest of his life when worse outrages and thousands of rapes in certain towns and cities seem to be lightly investigated for fear or seeming racist. He is not (as far a I know) a serial offender - so maybe it is time for a bit more balance? I'd be interested to know two things here: Firstly, how many of the people claiming Evans' right to rehabilitation would be doing that if he were an average Joe rather than a high-profile and famous footballer. Does this genuinely stem from a determination to defend the rights to rehabilitation for all sex offenders or just the famous ones who do sports people enjoy? Secondly, is it genuinely true that a sex offender from other walk of life would simply walk back into their previous employment. I suspect the truth is, rightly or wrongly, most sex offenders are vilified for the rest of their lives and will find it extremely hard to find work once they leave prison as they'll have to declare their conviction (especially if, like Evans, they are still serving their sentence on license). And perhaps that's wrong and not conducive to rehabilitation but I think that's a wider social issue to be addressed - not an argument for giving Evans special treatment compared to others in his position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Evans hasn't shown any remorse McCormack did, anyway the police have now waded in, Greater Manchester's Police and Crime Commissioner, Tony Lloyd, is calling on Oldham Athletic not to sign convicted rapist Ched Evans. He said: "Ched Evans is a convicted rapist and, whilst I strongly believe in the principle of rehabilitation, it will send out entirely the wrong message if they offer him a contract. "All offenders have the right to rebuild their lives and make amends after they have served their sentence, but Ched Evans' lack of remorse and failure to acknowledge his offence means it is simply inappropriate for him to be on a Greater Manchester football pitch week in and week out presenting himself as some kind of role model, especially to young people." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 So much discussion about something that is essentially objective. The man is guilty - not much point in discussing that. And we all know that the modern world wants it's pound of flesh for any misdemeanor. The smartphone decides, not common sense or anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 So much discussion about something that is essentially objective. The man is guilty - not much point in discussing that. And we all know that the modern world wants it's pound of flesh for any misdemeanor. The smartphone decides, not common sense or anything else. Why on Earth do people always invoke 'common sense' as being on their side? People use 'Common sense' as a short hand for 'MY opinion and I'm OBVIOUSLY correct' but the phrase merely means what the common (i.e. average) person thinks is sensible. For a start there's no guarantee the average person is right, especially in something which really involves understanding of the case and relevant laws, which not everyone will have. Secondly, in something which is very clearly divisive such as this, it's pretty clear society is pretty divided over the subject. 'Common sense' doesn't really apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 I'd say a number of reasons. Firstly the power of social media etc has vastly strengthened over recent years so fans are better able to make their voices heard over these things than they were in the past. Furthermore this has made companies and brands more aware that they can't act unethically and simply get friends in the media to cover it up - people will raises issues on Twitter. Secondly I think in recent years - in part due to the Saville and Harris cases and in part due to women gaining a stronger voice in the media - we take sex offending far more seriously than we used to as a society. If Evans had done this five years ago I think it would be far more likely to have been glossed over. We live in an age where that no longer happens. Thirdly and crucially, none of Hughes, McCormack or even King have created websites that vilified their victims. Evans' case has gone far beyond him not showing remorse and into his supporters continuing to make his victim's life hell. But he isn't personally directing Twitter trolls is he. It seems to me it is pointless for him trying to get a club in the UK until all his legal appeals have been exhausted, at which time he will either be exhonerated or accept he will be treated as a guilty man, regardless of what he says. Rightly or wrongly, the case has become a media circus and while I agree with Marcus X that it is remarkable that there was no outcry about players who killed people returning to the game, that doesn't detract from the fact that Evans really needs to get real and accept that he isn't going to play league football in England. As someone else has noted, he doesn't seem to be particularly bright. Or well advised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy62 Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Evans hasn't shown any remorse McCormack did, anyway the police have now waded in, Greater Manchester's Police and Crime Commissioner, Tony Lloyd, is calling on Oldham Athletic not to sign convicted rapist Ched Evans. He said: "Ched Evans is a convicted rapist and, whilst I strongly believe in the principle of rehabilitation, it will send out entirely the wrong message if they offer him a contract. "All offenders have the right to rebuild their lives and make amends after they have served their sentence, but Ched Evans' lack of remorse and failure to acknowledge his offence means it is simply inappropriate for him to be on a Greater Manchester football pitch week in and week out presenting himself as some kind of role model, especially to young people." Now this i don't like. He, as a PCC, shouldn't be getting involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Now this i don't like. He, as a PCC, shouldn't be getting involved. Suprised me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 But he isn't personally directing Twitter trolls is he. It seems to me it is pointless for him trying to get a club in the UK until all his legal appeals have been exhausted, at which time he will either be exhonerated or accept he will be treated as a guilty man, regardless of what he says. Rightly or wrongly, the case has become a media circus and while I agree with Marcus X that it is remarkable that there was no outcry about players who killed people returning to the game, that doesn't detract from the fact that Evans really needs to get real and accept that he isn't going to play league football in England. As someone else has noted, he doesn't seem to be particularly bright. Or well advised. he can't sign for a club abroad as he's out on license only, ( I think thats the case some one correct me if I'm wrong) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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