MarcusX Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Christ; seriously?! This is possibly the most insane piece of speculation in pursuit of painting Evans as innocent as yet posted on this thread. As of "rumours"; well, I head some guy spreading "rumours" the royal family are space lizards - nothing else to back them up, but; what the hell, I'll believe them. You seem really, really keen to have Evans' actions (undisputed by him; I might add) not seen as criminal by any means; worrying. I'm not trying to paint him as innocent, I am offering a suggestion as to why his girlfriend and her family seem so supportive. This is after all a discussion, I've never stated it as fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samo II Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I'm not trying to paint him as innocent, I am offering a suggestion as to why his girlfriend and her family seem so supportive. This is after all a discussion, I've never stated it as fact. Everything about your post stank of discrediting both the victim by smearing her; you generated an entirely speculative possibility in an attempt to make a convicted rapist seem less guilty of his crime by giving credence to unsubstantiated rumours (the use of quotation marks to cast doubt on whether they are indeed just rumours was a participatory classless touch). If you want I defend the conduct of rapists; fine. But would be better to just say that is what you are doing, rather that resort to victim shaming to do so. I personally find it dispicable sticking up for sex offenders, but I guess it is a free country and you can do what you like. Each time I think this thread has disgusted me to my limit, something else emerges. ******* horror show, is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dollymarie Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 He still hasn't just said sorry. It's a yeah but. (And yes before anyone points out he believes he is guilty, I am well aware of that) What he needs to do, is drop his appeal, take down that vile website of his and wait until his licence for this offence runs out. Until then people will just keep protesting wherever he tries to go and play, and keeping it in the public eye. If he really felt sorry for his victim, he would do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Everything about your post stank of discrediting both the victim by smearing her; you generated an entirely speculative possibility in an attempt to make a convicted rapist seem less guilty of his crime by giving credence to unsubstantiated rumours (the use of quotation marks to cast doubt on whether they are indeed just rumours was a participatory classless touch). If you want I defend the conduct of rapists; fine. But would be better to just say that is what you are doing, rather that resort to victim shaming to do so. I personally find it dispicable sticking up for sex offenders, but I guess it is a free country and you can do what you like. Each time I think this thread has disgusted me to my limit, something else emerges. ******* horror show, is what it is. No more speculative than half the stuff I've seen on here. I used quotations as I couldn't think of a better word to use, perhaps stories would have been more acceptable for you? But feel free to twist my words to meet your agenda. I have not in anyway defended either the conduct of rapists, or Evans in this situation. I have said before I understand why Evans may feel aggrieved or believe he is innocent but I have also said I feel he has handled the situation badly. Also, I have said I don't believe he, nor any other "serious offender" (again, using those marks as I couldn't think of a better term, not because I am questioning the seriousness...) should be playing football and placed back in the public eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Well I really have to say that Oldham FC have acted disgracefully in my opinion, it is almost as if they have perpetrated a cruel hoax on Evans, I have no sympathy for Evans whatsoever, but to string him along in the way they did is just unbelievable. They must have had an idea as to how this would pan out re the outcry from fans, media and sponsors but to go on giving him hope in the way that they have is plain cruel. I absolutely agree; however, given what happened in Paris yesterday I can understand why some have taken threats of violence very seriously. I wonder if that played on some fear. Nonetheless, you are quire right. Marcus X - a post likely to get a lot of flack headed your way as it reads as if the girl's credibility is in doubt, although I think what you are referring to is not on a wider scale and in relation to the conviction, more so within that family setting and the version of events Mr Evans will have painted for them and not publicly calling her into question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 He still hasn't just said sorry. It's a yeah but. (And yes before anyone points out he believes he is guilty, I am well aware of that) What he needs to do, is drop his appeal, take down that vile website of his and wait until his licence for this offence runs out. Until then people will just keep protesting wherever he tries to go and play, and keeping it in the public eye. If he really felt sorry for his victim, he would do that. Wow. Take down the website I can agree with, but no further and particularly not dropping the appeal. If he believes he is innocent why should he make such an act of altruism to be labelled a sex offender for life if he does not believe he is simply to protect the feelings of A N Other. Would you accept such a label to spare someone else's feelings if you did not believe the label was fair and just? If you suggest that as a way to get back in the game, I would suggest if you believed you were innocent clearing your name as a rapist would be higher on the agenda than getting a club. He has every right to pursue an appeals process and it is a damn good thing that appeals processes are in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samo II Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 No more speculative than half the stuff I've seen on here. I used quotations as I couldn't think of a better word to use, perhaps stories would have been more acceptable for you? But feel free to twist my words to meet your agenda. I have not in anyway defended either the conduct of rapists, or Evans in this situation. I have said before I understand why Evans may feel aggrieved or believe he is innocent but I have also said I feel he has handled the situation badly. Also, I have said I don't believe he, nor any other "serious offender" (again, using those marks as I couldn't think of a better term, not because I am questioning the seriousness...) should be playing football and placed back in the public eye. I have no agenda; I don't need one to point out the insidious accusation you made against a rape victim in pursuit, however oblique, of questioning the validity of his conviction as a rapist. Which is a fact FYI, so I don't give a damn whatever you think he's a hero, supervillian or the pope, let alone innocent, as I'd put serious money you know no more than me, and certainly no more than those involved in his proceedings, who found him guilty and put him in jail for having sex with an unconscious woman with out her consent, then legged it out of a fire escape. Personally, I think it should be the responsibility of any right-minded person to point out folks engaged in finding apologies for the behaviour of convicted rapists such as Evans, as you did. No agenda needed; just to call it as I see fit. You engage in victim shaming; I'll call it. As mentioned; no agenda needed, ta. Perhaps if that wasn't your intention you should have perhaps sought to generate further rumours about the victim'a credibility by making more of them up, such as specualting the reason Evans' girlfriend (who he cheated on, by the way; that's a stone cold fact) and her family continue to support his claims of innocence, despite his cheating in said girlfriend by raping someone, because they know the victim personally, so the rumours spread about her veracity have more grounds. I've seen plenty of guilty as sin people and their family's claim innocence long after guilt has been established; it's hardly a suprise. And if we're gonna speculate; perhaps the reason here lies with the family of the girl realising that they face the choice of losing their daughter, who is entirely convinced of her philandering boyfriend's innocence, by telling her they don't believe he is, so wager that their wealth and influence can instead help establish her delusion as fact, so have proceeded to try every avenue to do so. Wouldn't be the first time people with money have sought to do something like that. See; unlike you I've avoided imply the victim was at fault, whilst still making up something off the too of my head to 'feed the pot'. It's strange how one 'fantast' avoids legitimising the behaviour of a convicted rapist, while the other (which was yours, BTW) sought to defend a convicted rapist. I find that interesting. If you want to keep seeking ways to see "serious offender" (BTW - the words you were looking for are sex criminal, and they don't need the quote marks because they are, again, a fact) as not guilty, I suggest you get a law degree and go fight his corner. Is a far more constructive activity that victim shaming rape victims on a football forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I have deleted the quoted text because it was so darn long but I very much so enjoyed reading that. Good piece Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I absolutely agree; however, given what happened in Paris yesterday I can understand why some have taken threats of violence very seriously. I wonder if that played on some fear. Nonetheless, you are quire right. Marcus X - a post likely to get a lot of flack headed your way as it reads as if the girl's credibility is in doubt, although I think what you are referring to is not on a wider scale and in relation to the conviction, more so within that family setting and the version of events Mr Evans will have painted for them and not publicly calling her into question. I don't personally see a correlation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sodburyred Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Just out of curiosity would all the "Team Ched" lovers on here be supporting him had it been an under age girl he had slept with or even under age boy for that matter?* Seems that people have this perspective that she's asking for it by going to a hotel with a bloke so she's fair game or at least willing. *He would obviously still be denying it and have a website slandering the child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy62 Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Badger8... A decent effort. I quite enjoyed it too. However, you seem to take issue with why One got away with it and the other didn't. Let me explain. if I remember my sexual offences act correctly, then if there's consent, there's no rape. We all get that right? Well there's a second factor, and probably more pertinent one in this case, that stops sex from being rape... Did the accused reasonably believe that he had consent. If he did, there's no rape, irrespective of whether there actually was consent or not. Now the difference between Evans and McDonald is exactly that. It's fair to say there aren't many things you go back to a hotel room for. If you go back to a hotel room with another person it's reasonable (ish) to assume you're going to have sexual relations (unless you're married). McDonald pulled. Evans didn't. The jury probably considered that the act of going back to the hotel room with McDonald was enough reason to give him reasonable belief that she consented to sexual intercourse (even though we know she wasn't fit to give consent). Evans turned up as a gooseberry. After being politely text "I've wooed a young lady" or words to that effect (see Ched's website). Did he reasonably believe he had consent? No. Therefore he was convicted. I haven't yet read your second point, but I will look forward to doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I don't personally see a correlation. The murder of individuals who had received death threats simply. A week or so ago you may bin it and shrug it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 The murder of individuals who had received death threats simply. A week or so ago you may bin it and shrug it off. Given the ethnic make up of Oldham, had he raped a Muslim girl or had a cartoon tattoo of Mohammed maybe, but even referees have received death threats it doesn't stop them. it's a sadly convenient get out of jail free escape card IMO, Oldham FC should hang their heads in shame over this, it was cruel the way in which they led Evans on IMO and should never have got to that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 He still hasn't just said sorry. It's a yeah but. (And yes before anyone points out he believes he is guilty, I am well aware of that)What he needs to do, is drop his appeal, take down that vile website of his and wait until his licence for this offence runs out. Until then people will just keep protesting wherever he tries to go and play, and keeping it in the public eye. If he really felt sorry for his victim, he would do that. If he believes he is innocent he should be allowed to follow through the appeals process until its exhausted. No person who believes they are innocent should feel pressured to accept a guilty verdict. We will never have every verdict correct in the justice system so the appeals process should be respected. Justice has to work this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 The statement from the PFA; Bit late Ched. http://www.footballtradedirectory.com/news/2015/january/the-pfa-release-statement-in-which-ched.html? Oldham directors resigning apparently, the owner and Chairman has already resigned. How the hell could they not see this coming ? Brought in on themselves, should have stayed well clear. So Oldham are to blame for their staff receiving death threats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 He still hasn't just said sorry. It's a yeah but. (And yes before anyone points out he believes he is guilty, I am well aware of that) What he needs to do, is drop his appeal, take down that vile website of his and wait until his licence for this offence runs out. Until then people will just keep protesting wherever he tries to go and play, and keeping it in the public eye. If he really felt sorry for his victim, he would do that. He doesn't feel sorry for his victim though. He firmly believes he is innocent of what he has been convicted off, so why should he withdraw his appeals. There is a number of independent blogs out their which showed her twitter feed prior to her deleting it, which showed her boosting that she's going to be rich and how she'd struck gold and would have soon enjoying fancy holidays and would be purchasing matching Pink Mini Convertibles for her and her friends. There is also various suggestions how she's tried this before with a Rugby player and called Rape. His Girlfriend and her family are sticking by him....I find it interesting how a footballer, who generally speaking doesn't come across as the smartest has managed to convince a successful self-made millionaire businessman and his precious daughter he is innocent of the crimes he was convicted off. It's all out there in the public domain and easily found. Why it's not been included in his case, I've no idea, but there is more to this than the stories that people read in the tabloid news. In this country there has been an every growing case of utterly ridiculous miscragages of justice. I'm not saying this is one of them, however if in a year or so time the whole thing gets dropped, I personally wouldn't be surprised. My Personal view is that there is a strong chance that the victim in this case could well be a money grabbing young lady who has cried rape and if anything has belittled the real victims out there, if that does turn out to be the case I hope she is prosecuted herself. What happens remains to be seen but I feel this could run and run for a while yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 The hypocrisy of some people is simply staggering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 He doesn't feel sorry for his victim though. He firmly believes he is innocent of what he has been convicted off, so why should he withdraw his appeals. There is a number of independent blogs out their which showed her twitter feed prior to her deleting it, which showed her boosting that she's going to be rich and how she'd struck gold and would have soon enjoying fancy holidays and would be purchasing matching Pink Mini Convertibles for her and her friends. There is also various suggestions how she's tried this before with a Rugby player and called Rape. His Girlfriend and her family are sticking by him....I find it interesting how a footballer, who generally speaking doesn't come across as the smartest has managed to convince a successful self-made millionaire businessman and his precious daughter he is innocent of the crimes he was convicted off. It's all out there in the public domain and easily found. Why it's not been included in his case, I've no idea, but there is more to this than the stories that people read in the tabloid news. In this country there has been an every growing case of utterly ridiculous miscragages of justice. I'm not saying this is one of them, however if in a year or so time the whole thing gets dropped, I personally wouldn't be surprised. My Personal view is that there is a strong chance that the victim in this case could well be a money grabbing young lady who has cried rape and if anything has belittled the real victims out there, if that does turn out to be the case I hope she is prosecuted herself. What happens remains to be seen but I feel this could run and run for a while yet. Unbelievable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I do wonder how many people who think he is innocent have actually read the trial in detail. It's easy to read a newspaper headline and one paragraph and make a judgement on anything. If one has read the trial in detail then one would probably believe the verdict to be fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 He doesn't feel sorry for his victim though. He firmly believes he is innocent of what he has been convicted off, so why should he withdraw his appeals. There is a number of independent blogs out their which showed her twitter feed prior to her deleting it, which showed her boosting that she's going to be rich and how she'd struck gold and would have soon enjoying fancy holidays and would be purchasing matching Pink Mini Convertibles for her and her friends. There is also various suggestions how she's tried this before with a Rugby player and called Rape. His Girlfriend and her family are sticking by him....I find it interesting how a footballer, who generally speaking doesn't come across as the smartest has managed to convince a successful self-made millionaire businessman and his precious daughter he is innocent of the crimes he was convicted off. It's all out there in the public domain and easily found. Why it's not been included in his case, I've no idea, but there is more to this than the stories that people read in the tabloid news. In this country there has been an every growing case of utterly ridiculous miscragages of justice. I'm not saying this is one of them, however if in a year or so time the whole thing gets dropped, I personally wouldn't be surprised. My Personal view is that there is a strong chance that the victim in this case could well be a money grabbing young lady who has cried rape and if anything has belittled the real victims out there, if that does turn out to be the case I hope she is prosecuted herself. What happens remains to be seen but I feel this could run and run for a while yet. Some fathers indulge their daughters/sons every whim and never say no to their little princess, especially rich daddies. You'll have to link the rest of the St Ched propaganda because I can't find it. and as for all of this wonderful 'evidence' suddenly emerging, you would have to ask his original defence team that question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I do wonder how many people who think he is innocent have actually read the trial in detail. It's easy to read a newspaper headline and one paragraph and make a judgement on anything. If one has read the trial in detail then one would probably believe the verdict to be fair. Unlikely people would read a newspaper headline and make him out to be innocent, seeing as most newspaper headlines make him out to be the worst criminal in history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 He still hasn't just said sorry. It's a yeah but. (And yes before anyone points out he believes he is guilty, I am well aware of that) What he needs to do, is drop his appeal, take down that vile website of his and wait until his licence for this offence runs out. Until then people will just keep protesting wherever he tries to go and play, and keeping it in the public eye. If he really felt sorry for his victim, he would do that. I'm sure if you thought you were innocent of a crime you'd try every avenue to clear your name regardless of what others thought, and that is Evans' position and it's fair enough. Just because rape is a vile crime doesn't mean that those convicted of it should have less rights of appeal than other criminals, nor does it mean miscarriages of justice never happen in such cases. And just because the circumstances were sordid, sleazy and foul doesn't mean he has no chance of winning an appeal. He's not contesting his morality, the simple issue is consent or lack thereof. As for the website, I've not read it, is it his, or his supporters? He doesn't strike me as someone able to launch a conversation, let alone a website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy62 Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 There is a number of independent blogs out their which showed her twitter feed prior to her deleting it, which showed her boosting that she's going to be rich and how she'd struck gold and would have soon enjoying fancy holidays and would be purchasing matching Pink Mini Convertibles for her and her friends. There is also various suggestions how she's tried this before with a Rugby player and called Rape. It's all out there in the public domain and easily found. Why it's not been included in his case, I've no idea, but there is more to this than the stories that people read in the tabloid news. My Personal view is that there is a strong chance that the victim in this case could well be a money grabbing young lady who has cried rape and if anything has belittled the real victims out there, if that does turn out to be the case I hope she is prosecuted herself. You really have no idea, do you? A defence team's job is to defend their client. If such materials exist, do you really think they'd have been left out of the trial? As for her being prosecuted... Really? Do you think? After a man has been convicted? Not sure that one would have legs to be honest. I think the fact that he's convicted of probably the hardest crime to prove (with the lowest conviction rate) suggests her being prosecuted is as likely as the UWE stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I'm sure if you thought you were innocent of a crime you'd try every avenue to clear your name regardless of what others thought, and that is Evans' position and it's fair enough. Just because rape is a vile crime doesn't mean that those convicted of it should have less rights of appeal than other criminals, nor does it mean miscarriages of justice never happen in such cases. And just because the circumstances were sordid, sleazy and foul doesn't mean he has no chance of winning an appeal. He's not contesting his morality, the simple issue is consent or lack thereof. As for the website, I've not read it, is it his, or his supporters? He doesn't strike me as someone able to launch a conversation, let alone a website. of course you are entirely correct but Evans could have shown more humility and remorse, he could have asked his supporters to leave the girl in peace, he didn't even need to talk about being innocent, he could just have said let the legal process take it's course, but he didn't and his actions will still haunt him whatever the verdict from his latest appeal, because he has perpetuated by his actions since his release what many people believed he was like in the first place. I have no sympathy for Evans whatsoever, apart from my belief that Oldham FC have pretty much played a cruel hoax on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 of course you are entirely correct but Evans could have shown more humility and remorse, he could have asked his supporters to leave the girl in peace, he didn't even need to talk about being innocent, he could just have said let the legal process take it's course, but he didn't and his actions will still haunt him whatever the verdict from his latest appeal, because he has perpetuated by his actions since his release what many people believed he was like in the first place. I have no sympathy for Evans whatsoever, apart from my belief that Oldham FC have pretty much played a cruel hoax on him. I think he's been appallingly advised and (as his actions on the night on question show) he's not very smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I think he's been appallingly advised and (as his actions on the night on question show) he's not very smart. and originally appallingly defended by his original team, if all of this new evidence is to be believed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityexile Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 He doesn't feel sorry for his victim though. He firmly believes he is innocent of what he has been convicted off, so why should he withdraw his appeals. There is a number of independent blogs out their which showed her twitter feed prior to her deleting it, which showed her boosting that she's going to be rich and how she'd struck gold and would have soon enjoying fancy holidays and would be purchasing matching Pink Mini Convertibles for her and her friends. There is also various suggestions how she's tried this before with a Rugby player and called Rape. His Girlfriend and her family are sticking by him....I find it interesting how a footballer, who generally speaking doesn't come across as the smartest has managed to convince a successful self-made millionaire businessman and his precious daughter he is innocent of the crimes he was convicted off. It's all out there in the public domain and easily found. Why it's not been included in his case, I've no idea, but there is more to this than the stories that people read in the tabloid news. In this country there has been an every growing case of utterly ridiculous miscragages of justice. I'm not saying this is one of them, however if in a year or so time the whole thing gets dropped, I personally wouldn't be surprised. My Personal view is that there is a strong chance that the victim in this case could well be a money grabbing young lady who has cried rape and if anything has belittled the real victims out there, if that does turn out to be the case I hope she is prosecuted herself. What happens remains to be seen but I feel this could run and run for a while yet. Not opening up the whole debate again, but you are simply wrong on the 'cried rape' bit, as even the most cursory reading of the evidence would show you. There is also not a single shred of evidence she had 'tried this before'. I love the way people can come to an informed decision after a quick bit of internet trawling, but a jury who sat through all the evidence could not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Club and Country Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Bizzarre thing is, if his appeal is successful (although I don't know what success that is after already going to prison) There will be a queue of clubs waiting to sign him (on the sly that is) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Gordon Taylor has just compared this saga to the Hillsborough disaster. Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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