Calculus Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 It might be interesting to see what John Barnes actually said first before tearing it apart, you can be fairly sure it wasn't what Robbored put as the thread title. It's true that black people are under represented as managers (and are under represented at the top of many industries). Given that the best route to management appears to be playing, don't these numbers look a little suspicious? Roughly 14% of the UK population are black / minority ethnicity (BME) Roughly 25% of professional players are BME. 6.4% of people passing the UEFA pro license are BME. 3.4% of coaching staff from academy to first team manager are BME. Now I don't want "positive" discrimination or quotas, and I have little time for complaints from the likes of Paul Ince who has had a fair few chances and got poor results, but I do think the overall picture indicates there is a problem and it isn't trending in a direction that looks like it will solve itself. Just out of interest does the relative under-representation of non-BME people amongst the ranks of professional footballers concern you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strictly Obi Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Just out of interest does the relative under-representation of non-BME people amongst the ranks of professional footballers concern you?Of course professional footballers are not interviewed as such. So there is not really a selection process. I think the point of this thread seems to be that potential bme managers are not being considered by largely white boardrooms! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gol Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Of course professional footballers are not interviewed as such. So there is not really a selection process. I think the point of this thread seems to be that potential bme managers are not being considered by largely white boardrooms! http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/jimmy-floyd-hasselbaink-the-rooney-rule-is-just-patronising-9432038.html This article is very interesting from hasselbaink. Admits he was the only black man on his coaching course. Now whilst we don't know the figures if we take this article at face value it seems that the number of BME players taking the qualifications which are a requirement to just coach let alone managing is low. This may have been a one off with regards to BME players taking coaching qualification but in my admittedly limited research the number seems low that are taking the qualification and I cannot find any info countering that claim. The above post insinuates that boards of football clubs in this country are institutionally racist. That may be the case in some instances however there is little proof of it but if they don't have the qualications why would they be considered in the first place over someone who does regardless of skin colour? On the subject of John Barnes if Cotterill left today and we replaced him with Barnes is be horrified however if we could get hughton in I'd be delighted. However I wasn't impressed when we appointed Cotterill so what do I know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 I think you're forgetting about the recent Chelsea fan's in Paris. That they were Chelsea fans is incidental. It's an adjective. That has nothing whatsoever to do with football, or football fans. Those were reprehensible scum. It's an unfortunate comparison, but the coverage of that incident in a large part reminded me of the film Bowling for Columbine and the message about the press coverage regarding those kids wearing Marilyn Manson t shirts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Rob Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 ITV4 after the friendly, the John Barnes documentary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldan2010 Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 Having watched the documentary, my humble opinion is that there is no doubt he broke down racial barriers as a player. That alone should be applauded. Unfortunately, as a manager like ALL new managers, if you make the wrong decision for that first position you are tarnished if it does not pan out i.e. Celtic looking for wins every game, anything less is failure especially if your local rivals are streets ahead, the pressure is greater. That for me is the fundamental reason why JB is not a manager today. By the time he went to Tranmere, he was not going to get the honeymoon period as any dip in results would be met with the "knew he was s**t response" because he got it wrong by going to Celtic and tarnished his reputation as a coach. IMHO, football does not need gimmicks but positive movements like the Rooney rule. However, we need a black Ferguson (Snr), a black Shankley, Clough etc. this will break down the barriers. Maybe Chris Powell, limited player like Fergie, but will he show the commitment to succeed like Fergie!? The analogy I would give is that Ian Botham was a natural and genius at cricket, s**t captain and leader, revered by all in cricket. Not a manager/coach etc. Be honest with yourself Mr Barnes you are not a coach, you understand the game but you don't have those particular skills or cannot teach those skills to others to sit at the top table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 Having watched the documentary, my humble opinion is that there is no doubt he broke down racial barriers as a player. That alone should be applauded. Unfortunately, as a manager like ALL new managers, if you make the wrong decision for that first position you are tarnished if it does not pan out i.e. Celtic looking for wins every game, anything less is failure especially if your local rivals are streets ahead, the pressure is greater. That for me is the fundamental reason why JB is not a manager today. By the time he went to Tranmere, he was not going to get the honeymoon period as any dip in results would be met with the "knew he was s**t response" because he got it wrong by going to Celtic and tarnished his reputation as a coach. IMHO, football does not need gimmicks but positive movements like the Rooney rule. However, we need a black Ferguson (Snr), a black Shankley, Clough etc. this will break down the barriers. Maybe Chris Powell, limited player like Fergie, but will he show the commitment to succeed like Fergie!? The analogy I would give is that Ian Botham was a natural and genius at cricket, s**t captain and leader, revered by all in cricket. Not a manager/coach etc. Be honest with yourself Mr Barnes you are not a coach, you understand the game but you don't have those particular skills or cannot teach those skills to others to sit at the top table. Bit harsh on Fergie calling him a 'limited player'? 171 goals in 317 games and back then Scottish football was arguably much more competitive and more successful. When Fergie retired from playing in the mid seventies Scotland was just embarking on a great run, qualifying for the World Cups in 1974, 1978, 1982, 1986 and 1990 whilst producing players like Dalglish, Souness, Jordan, McQueen, Willie Miller, Lou Macari, Martin Buchan, John Wark, Alan Hansen etc etc. Every top club in England had Scots in their line up and England couldn't match 'em. Anyway back on topic, loved the Rangers banner after Celtic sacked John Barnes and then Tony Mowbray turned out to be worse, at the next Old Firm game the 'Gers banner read 'At least Barnes could rap..' Made I laugh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldan2010 Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 Bit harsh on Fergie calling him a 'limited player'? 171 goals in 317 games and back then Scottish football was arguably much more competitive and more successful. When Fergie retired from playing in the mid seventies Scotland was just embarking on a great run, qualifying for the World Cups in 1974, 1978, 1982, 1986 and 1990 whilst producing players like Dalglish, Souness, Jordan, McQueen, Willie Miller, Lou Macari, Martin Buchan, John Wark, Alan Hansen etc etc. Every top club in England had Scots in their line up and England couldn't match 'em. Anyway back on topic, loved the Rangers banner after Celtic sacked John Barnes and then Tony Mowbray turned out to be worse, at the next Old Firm game the 'Gers banner read 'At least Barnes could rap..' Made I laugh! Firstly, thank you for reading my post. My point wasn't Fergie was good/bad or indifferent as a player but his success was because of his determination to reach the top when becoming a manager. I don't think he got his early work in coaching because of his ability as a player, unlike John Barnes getting Celtic job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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