Guest Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 I will also stand by Monkeh, what I witnessed under SOD was less enjoyable and less entertaining than under Pulis and Osman and that is disregarding the results. I do hold the other two in higher regard, although that isn't saying much. Under Pulis at very least the ball was moved up quickly, under Osman we tried to contain the game. Under SOD we did neither but play a slow and laboured long ball game. You may have witnessed progress, I didn't. I witnessed the worst performances from a squad managed by the worst manager I have ever seen of BCFC. I don't put that down to any lack of football intelligence on my part; even if you may. I don't put your support of SOD down to a lack of football intelligence on your part. Actually I put it down to you becoming entrenched in a position, buying in to the bloke and affording him unjustifiable levels of patience than the more level headed would. Before you take this as an insult, I would suggest I may suffer the same with DMc, and as he was mentioned above Benny L also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Holloway was a poor example, but I can think of other managers similar, like.. erm.. oh yeah Steve Cotterill, dark ages? Really? If Cotterill had SODS dull, boring personality do you reckon we'd be in the championship? What has 'personality' got to do with how a football club is run? Wenger is probably just as dour and look what he's done. Spudski, I've asked of you a couple of times, perhaps for those who are not enlightened as to how the club runs you would explain: - what back room changes he implemented; - what noses he put out of joint, how and why; - how he worked with Burt; - which policies of his SC has persevered with, those he has ditched; and - what changes emanated from him as opposed to strategically at board level. Until explaining that you may run a danger of others interpreting what you've written as the equivalent of hot air and no substance. I'm not digging you out here fella or trying to catch you out, just helping along because you won't convince without substance. The tidbits I have lead me to believe he did do some good behind the scenes, but a lot more of it was directed at him as opposed to his own initiatives, in spite of how he liked to say the 'club appointed me because they came round to my way of thinking'. I'm not going to go into details as to what he did at the Club, as it would lead to how I came by that knowledge. Regardless of what I say....all can be interpreted as hot air as you say. The one thing I will say...is 'allegedly' SL and other members of the board were not used to being told how he was going to run the Club. He really did put some noses out of joint....in a similar fashion to Coppell. I've no reason to back up SoD like I do....if I wasn't privy to certain information. It's no skin off my nose. I'd be like any other fan, if I based his tenure purely on his results....I'd also think he was useless. But because of what I know...which I have no intention of sharing on here....I can see what happened from a different angle. A lot of good intentions by our board and owner, and copious amounts of money in the past have got us nowhere fast. SoD was the kick up the backside this Club needed...it wasn't enjoyed...but it's certainly worked in our favour since imho. Make of that what you will mate...but like I said...I've got no reason to back SoD like I do, it's only because of some insight, that I do. It would be easier not too, because of the flack you can get Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 The emperors new suit of clothes part 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 I'm not going to go into details as to what he did at the Club, as it would lead to how I came by that knowledge. Regardless of what I say....all can be interpreted as hot air as you say. It would be easier not too, because of the flack you can get Unfortunately Spudski I tried to help you out but you don't help yourself. That you cannot or will not (I suspect the former as I've no reason to believe the latter) name even one positive step, even something from the public domain if only as passing support for your point of view speaks volumes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Saturday Boy Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Wow! I wonder what the scousers will make of his after match interviews? They won't be saying calm down, calm down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bs3 Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 What has 'personality' got to do with how a football club is run? Wenger is probably just as dour and look what he's done. I'm not going to go into details as to what he did at the Club, as it would lead to how I came by that knowledge. Regardless of what I say....all can be interpreted as hot air as you say. The one thing I will say...is 'allegedly' SL and other members of the board were not used to being told how he was going to run the Club. He really did put some noses out of joint....in a similar fashion to Coppell. I've no reason to back up SoD like I do....if I wasn't privy to certain information. It's no skin off my nose. I'd be like any other fan, if I based his tenure purely on his results....I'd also think he was useless. But because of what I know...which I have no intention of sharing on here....I can see what happened from a different angle. A lot of good intentions by our board and owner, and copious amounts of money in the past have got us nowhere fast. SoD was the kick up the backside this Club needed...it wasn't enjoyed...but it's certainly worked in our favour since imho. Make of that what you will mate...but like I said...I've got no reason to back SoD like I do, it's only because of some insight, that I do. It would be easier not too, because of the flack you can get You are not the only person with inside knowledge, I know people/players who was right in the heart of the dressing room, and they all speak well of SoD , however they did say he was shy hard to communicate with. So it also brings up the point of personality which you claim is not important, its vital that the manager shows leadership qualities in every aspect of the game , you persona and personality is crucial in any management post, its not the only thing but it is hugely important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 You are not the only person with inside knowledge, I know people/players who was right in the heart of the dressing room, and they all speak well of SoD , however they did say he was shy hard to communicate with. So it also brings up the point of personality which you claim is not important, its vital that the manager shows leadership qualities in every aspect of the game , you persona and personality is crucial in any management post, its not the only thing but it is hugely important. 6 degrees of separation determines most of us here can get pretty close to the club very easily. What I've been told is that a lot of SOD-led initiatives left when he did; that it was Burt who has overseen the dramatic turnaround behind the scenes and it is he who we should thank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Unfortunately Spudski I tried to help you out but you don't help yourself. That you cannot or will not (I suspect the former as I've no reason to believe the latter) name even one positive step, even something from the public domain, speaks volumes. Make of it what you will fella...lots has been said in the past. The only reason I back SoD like I do, is because of info I've got from sources I don't wish to reveal and actually speaking to SoD on two occasions in private. I wont go into detail on here. You are not the only person with inside knowledge, I know people/players who was right in the heart of the dressing room, and they all speak well of SoD , however they did say he was shy hard to communicate with. So it also brings up the point of personality which you claim is not important, its vital that the manager shows leadership qualities in every aspect of the game , you persona and personality is crucial in any management post, its not the only thing but it is hugely important. 'Inside knowledge' as a term makes me cringe fella...many hear stuff. There are people also on here that do stuff indirectly for the Club....so many hear things....it's no big deal. As for having 'personality'....that has no bearing on communication. You can communicate without having a 'personality'. Also indirectly. The England team he Coached wouldn't have an 85% win record if he couldn't communicate. Either way... he's gone and left many a fan passionate about his tenure here....good or bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bs3 Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 6 degrees of separation determines most of us here can get pretty close to the club very easily. What I've been told is that a lot of SOD-led initiatives left when he did; that it was Burt who has overseen the dramatic turnaround behind the scenes and it is he who we should thank. Agree , I was only pointing out that many of us know/knew players staff etc. I made my judgment on what I saw week in week out on the pitch and also the interviews he gave to the media and in all aspects I was not impressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bs3 Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Make of it what you will fella...lots has been said in the past. The only reason I back SoD like I do, is because of info I've got from sources I don't wish to reveal and actually speaking to SoD on two occasions in private. I wont go into detail on here. 'Inside knowledge' as a term makes me cringe fella...many hear stuff. There are people also on here that do stuff indirectly for the Club....so many hear things....it's no big deal. As for having 'personality'....that has no bearing on communication. You can communicate without having a 'personality'. Also indirectly. The England team he Coached wouldn't have an 85% win record if he couldn't communicate. Either way... he's gone and left many a fan passionate about his tenure here....good or bad. I only used the term "inside knowledge" because you was the one who stated in a previous post that you knew what was going on behind the scenes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 As for having 'personality'....that has no bearing on communication. You can communicate without having a 'personality'. Also indirectly. The England team he Coached wouldn't have an 85% win record if he couldn't communicate. It's been 7 games. That's a completely distortive and misleading statistic and does not back up your view one bit, just exactly like if he'd managed 2 games and won neither it would be ridiculous of anyone to quote his 0% win record. You can communicate without a personality, rarely can you inspire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinmans Love Child Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Yep and dropped Fielding leaving him devoid of any confidence and Flint and Williams were part of a failing defence, what a difference a year makes. To be fair in Fieldings first game he had a shocker, he didn't look half the keeper he did this season! SODs reign wasn't good or pretty however he set up the groundwork for what was achieved by SC so he's not all bad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Ok so he was a sh1t coach. No. A lot of the present team's performance is down to SoD's coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Fair play to him. Hope he does well. I don't hold any resentment towards him like many on here. I still respect him as a coach and forward thinking football man but I just don't think he's really suited to managing, being the main man at a club. He just doesn't have the personality and it didn't work out here at all. I've thought for a while that he'd be better off as someone's assistant and he's obviously got a chance at Liverpool now. Why it "didn't work out here" was not because of his personality. Why it didn't work out here was that he hardly won any matches and was taking us down to the fourth division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handsofclay Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 I don't like to criticize people. I often say that before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. Then at least if they don't like what you have to say about them you are a mile away and have got their shoes. SOD and Bristol City were never a good fit. He did well at the likes of Doncaster because with all due respect Donny are small fry in Yorkshire so aren't expected to have a manager who can attract media attention. They can get away with a manager that slips under the radar. Bristol City are the biggest club in the west country. Supporters demand a media presence. A manager with a good media presence can last that bit longer at AG even if the results go south. A manager with awful media skills and presence has to talk big through results on the pitch to survive in BS3. SOD results wise barely registered a whisper. Long before SOD got the job as Head Coach - which even smacks of his wanting to distance himself from all things non playing related from the outset - and he was regularly touted on here as the answer whenever the manager job was vacant, I knew he would not fit. He was another Jimmy Lumsden (please can you not ask me to give you a wave during a game). At least , in Lumsden's case, his players talked for him in the season after Jordan departed for Hearts. SOD and City were never a good fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handsofclay Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 He wouldn't of got us to the prem but would of established us in the championship But we were use to john ward football and weren't prepared for the style pulls brought, it got bad under him I was one of the 7777 that turned up to watch Lualua tear us a new one that's how bad it got But it's nothing on how bad it got under sod, He was an awful manager but he is a good coach and is best out of the lime light I was there that night too, with my brother. If I recall, Tinman gave us the lead with a rare right footed shot. That leaves 7,774 still to own up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 I was there that night too, with my brother. If I recall, Tinman gave us the lead with a rare right footed shot. That leaves 7,774 still to own up. Me also......7773 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Me also......7773 7772 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchay Red Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 SOD? He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 I have one question. if as SOD's fan club like to tell us that results shouldn't matter, it's the 'project' of teaching the whole club to play one way, if after 5 years the 'project' had totally failed and we had been relegated or just not gone forward in any way shape or form, then what?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 I have one question. if as SOD's fan club like to tell us that results shouldn't matter, it's the 'project' of teaching the whole club to play one way, if after 5 years the 'project' had totally failed and we had been relegated or just not gone forward in any way shape or form, then what?.I fully believe had he stayed we would of certainly gone down to League 2 and every chance the Conference season after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 I have one question. if as SOD's fan club like to tell us that results shouldn't matter, it's the 'project' of teaching the whole club to play one way, if after 5 years the 'project' had totally failed and we had been relegated or just not gone forward in any way shape or form, then what?. Oh let them bide, Es. They are like those elderly Japanese guys in the jungle who refuse to believe the war is over and they lost. I won't even ask them to ponder why if it's all long-term and "changing players mentality" under Seany baby, Doncaster managed not to win once in 14 games during his final spell at the club - five years into his tactical revolution! Surely they should've got better and better? Instead they had their best results right at the start of his reign. He took over from Dave "bad" Penney, who incidentally managed one more promotion with the club then he did. The Blue Few will tell you how great "bad" is.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marina's Rolls Royce Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 7772 7771 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 I have one question. if as SOD's fan club like to tell us that results shouldn't matter, it's the 'project' of teaching the whole club to play one way, if after 5 years the 'project' had totally failed and we had been relegated or just not gone forward in any way shape or form, then what?. Nothing to do with fan clubs but an understanding of what was briefly if clumsily defined. I was unaware the five pillars linked to the player pathway was going to create players that could only play one way. The pillars are now gone. It was not a total failure. The wage bill was slashed which enabled Mr Cotterill to later sign players who can play more than one way i.e. Luke Freeman who did not join for buttons. Then what? Citys gates - income at a lower level should have always enabled the club to be at least competitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 I have one question. if as SOD's fan club like to tell us that results shouldn't matter, it's the 'project' of teaching the whole club to play one way, if after 5 years the 'project' had totally failed and we had been relegated or just not gone forward in any way shape or form, then what?. Like anything....you look at where it's failing and try to fix it. You only have to look at the like of Swansea and Southampton to see that taking one step back, can lead to many steps going forward. Personally, I think relegation was the best thing for us. We are far stronger now since relegation. It enabled us to change many things and rebuild....something we would have struggled to do if we had stayed up and continued in the same vein. We were a rudderless ship, with overpaid pros who were just going through the motions, as well as staff. Throwing money at it regardless. At least when SoD came here, he, the Board and SL went about a way of rectifying the situation, and put a plan in practice...a blueprint if you like. Burt and Pemberton were brought in and successfully work with SC now. Tinnion, also in now for recruitment. New Scouts... etc. The likes of Wade Elliott being persuaded to give his experience to the under 21's....all good things. Of course results matter...but it's making them sustainable and creating a platform to keep going. Results don't matter if they only last for a couple seasons, and you end up spiralling out of control....which we were. You ask any Swansea or Southampton fan as to whether they enjoyed relegation at the time and they would have said 'No'. But ask them now....having seen how they made changes and made a plan of action....then they would have welcomed it, if they knew it would lead to where they are now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 The question EMB has asked you've not answered at all. And for every Swansea or Southampton there's four or five clubs that cannot shake it off in spite of relegations... Leeds, Pompey, Bradford, Luton, Plymouth etc etc etc. SOD was not stopping the rot and had we not gotten rid I think we would have faced the exact same fate as those in that list, certainly not Swansea or Soton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 The question EMB has asked you've not answered at all. And for every Swansea or Southampton there's four or five clubs that cannot shake it off in spite of relegations... Leeds, Pompey, Bradford, Luton, Plymouth etc etc etc. SOD was not stopping the rot and had we not gotten rid I think we would have faced the exact same fate as those in that list, certainly not Swansea or Soton. Erm....first sentence... How the hell can you compare us with that list of teams....have you seen how they've tried to come back? I despair sometimes....no offence....but have you followed their recent history compared with ours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.