Sod To Liverpool?

[spudski]

[Aussie]

Dumped on by lansdowne imo, did well everywhere else but here, awful media relations though!

And the fact we were rooted to the foot of the league playing the worst style of football I've seen in years...

[Guest]

What has football managers being sacked, got to do with football mangers not being liked by fans.

How can fans fear the likes of Rogers when he has a win rate for the Club of 51%...it doesn't make sense.

I know i'm not wrong, as I can see many comments just made on this forum, that back up my thoughts.

More comments were made about SoD's comments and his personality than the lack of points....people just didn't like him. He was never going to win here.

The point wasn't about sackings, the point was managers who held almost universally nil support amongst fan bases in spite of being passionate - a rebuttal to your statement that football fans live in the dark ages and want someone to wave arms.

Even take Danny Wilson here. He wasn't an arm flailing passionate manager. I'd say he could easily match SOD in a battle of wits, and he's a bit dour too to be honest. I tell you what though, despite underachieving, despite what he let happen behind the scenes, he didn't half get a damn load of support. Even when he was sacked it was an unfortunate inevitability. Reason, he set his side I ut to entertain us, and they did.

[spudski]

Spudski, just another point I'd be interested in your thoughts. You had a line above along the lines of 'who is the average fan to question professionals working in the game'. It's a fair point.

However bear in mind football isn't a science and it's beauty is its simplicity. Because Sir Bobby Robson, a man I hold in highest regard, shunned the sort of view you preach about fans' ability to understand the game we have Jose Mourinho and Andre Villas Boas. I'm not making the point that anyone here has that potential, far from it, just that your instant rebuttal is in my opinion very short sighted.

Furthermore, of those 'in the game' overwhelmingly they come from a pool of ex professionals. Do you consider those better placed than say someone who has a sports management degree and some related experience? Of most interest to me,

do you think listening to the average pro's post match interviews and press interviews that you couldn't have a reasonable debate or conversation with them?

Very interesting points fella...and a topic that could be spoken about for ages.

 

I will have to disagree with you though. Football is increasingly becoming a science. More and more clubs are relying on statistics. It runs really deep.

 

There are more noticeable now, Clubs who are embracing people from outside the game,,,,which has pretty much in general, throughout history, been a closed shop.

 

Brentford are probably the most talked about team that is embracing 'numbers'.

 

But football definitely has become a science....from the $20,000 training tops that Chelsea players wear, that tracks and records every movement.

 

To the statistics that will make Wenger, rest a player....when his figures show, that player is about to get an injury....it's that scientific.

 

There are many companies developing from outside football that Clubs are looking too for help.

 

I think the days of ex footballers running Clubs are numbered....things are changing.

 

As for conversing with pros...of course you can...but you speak to most pros and managers, and they will tell you that the average football punter has no idea about the game....and tbh....they want it that way. Many are scared....because they know there are people far more educated and knowledgeable outside the game, who could probably do a better job.

[Guest]

Very interesting points fella...and a topic that could be spoken about for ages.

I will have to disagree with you though. Football is increasingly becoming a science. More and more clubs are relying on statistics. It runs really deep.

There are more noticeable now, Clubs who are embracing people from outside the game,,,,which has pretty much in general, throughout history, been a closed shop.

Brentford are probably the most talked about team that is embracing 'numbers'.

But football definitely has become a science....from the $20,000 training tops that Chelsea players wear, that tracks and records every movement.

To the statistics that will make Wenger, rest a player....when his figures show, that player is about to get an injury....it's that scientific.

There are many companies developing from outside football that Clubs are looking too for help.

I think the days of ex footballers running Clubs are numbered....things are changing.

As for conversing with pros...of course you can...but you speak to most pros and managers, and they will tell you that the average football punter has no idea about the game....and tbh....they want it that way. Many are scared....because they know there are people far more educated and knowledgeable outside the game, who could probably do a better job.

Thanks for that. I wouldn't disagree with any thing there. I may downplay the science and that's developments in preparation and conditioning rather than a movement of the game per se, but Brentford is a very good example and certainly one not in my mind when posing the question.

The last para is why I think views and opinions on SOD expressed by 'the usual bunch' on here are really just as valid as Rogers' and why I personally am not moved by any 'endorsement' from past or present employment.

[Chivs]

Likewise....it's the usual suspects talking rubbish about the fella.

 

There is a phobia by many football fans, and life in general....of managers who speak eloquently and intelligently. It scares them...makes them feel inadequate, because they don't understand what they are talking about or trying to do.

 

You've only got to read comments about Brendan Rogers by Liverpool fans....similar to what certain fans thought of SoD.

Similar can be said about Wenger, Laudrup, Mancini, Moyes,Villas Boas to name a few...

 

It's very apparent, that many football fans in this Country are still living in the dark ages when it comes to how football clubs are run and how squads are created.

 

They read the Sun and football forums, and think they know better than those who are working in the game 24/7.

 

As long as you've got players and managers showing 'passion' then it's all ok it seems.

 

You could have the football equivalent of Da Vinci, Newton, Galileo, Michelangelo and Hawkin as your manager, and still football fans would be saying....'I can't understand a ******* word he's talking about, and he has no bloomin personality....and why don't they just hump it into the box ffs'  

 

I really do get the impression many fans are scared of intelligent managers who try to communicate what they are trying to do.

 

Just an observation.

 

To the unintelligent and uninformed football fan, O'Driscoll comes across as a very learned manager.

 

SOD: "You don't care about the results, just the process. Get the process right and you will get the results"

Thicko: "Wow, he's a profound manager".

 

SOD's biggest failing is that he is one of the unintelligent and uninformed fans so he thinks he is very learned.  Hey Spudski? 

 

PS Loved your reference to the article that said he was training as an accountant....

[spudski]

To the unintelligent and uninformed football fan, O'Driscoll comes across as a very learned manager.

 

SOD: "You don't care about the results, just the process. Get the process right and you will get the results"

Thicko: "Wow, he's a profound manager".

 

SOD's biggest failing is that he is one of the unintelligent and uninformed fans so he thinks he is very learned.  Hey Spudski? 

 

PS Loved your reference to the article that said he was training as an accountant....

Tell that to SL, the FA and Liverpool who all employed him

[Chivs]

Tell that to SL, the FA and Liverpool who all employed him

To the unintelligent and uninformed football fan, O'Driscoll comes across as a very learned manager.

[Cowshed]

Sigh. Clearly I was not using fate in the sense of mythical preordained luck, if there was any doubt it was rather bloody clear when I mentioned our cause would be mismanagement. I was using fate in the colloquial.

I shall not respond to you further on this as rather than acknowledge a misunderstanding of the point, perhaps through my mistake in writing conversationally rather than concisely, you seem intent to put words in to my mouth to suggest I was saying something entirely different, even when I'd already further explained myself, twice.

It is ok. It is a forum. I did think I should not waste time on answering a post by EMB but did so anyway. You leapt all over it and bent it out of shape.

The point about the player pathway playing one way was unanswered. Elite academies do similar.

I expected Mr O'Driscoll to reach safety before he left. I also posted on here I expected Mr Cotterill to win the league this season. Both the former and latter where at this level with City because of how ridiculously badly the FC had been run.

Regarding the project question. The club should not have been allowed to get into that state anyway, and should never again in future. The question was uneven.

I do hope that some of Mr O'Driscolls single minded dogma regarding development does become part of Bristol City's future. It should not be a mere "project".

[reddogkev]

Still think this is truly bizarre.  Love to know what the Liverpool fans and players must think of this appointment.

 

Sean O'Driscoll at Liverpool????  Has this actually happened?

 

Brendan has lost his mind.

[Guest]

I missed the point about pathways and playing one way. Personally I don't know which side of the coin I'm on as to whether it is a positive or not.

My concern is that a club-style system could produce players which are lacking in versatility. It also seems to assume that the path chosen is the optimum way to play. Generally however football is transitional and systems develop with the game, typically once the 'defence' or counter system has been successfully implemented. 5 years ago dealing with Tiki Taki was daunting, it is far less today and I dare say in 5 years time there will be a new 'system'.

I can certainly see the benefits, but I think theres is also a serious risk that it's a long term solution to a short term problem. I've much more preference for rounded training and getting players technically proficient first and foremost rather than proficient in a particular system. For example, Neuer is often cited as a very competent central midfielder and regularly trains in outfield positions. That I am all for.

[Cowshed]

I missed the point about pathways and playing one way. Personally I don't know which side of the coin I'm on as to whether it is a positive or not.

My concern is that a club-style system could produce players which are lacking in versatility. It also seems to assume that the path chosen is the optimum way to play. Generally however football is transitional and systems develop with the game, typically once the 'defence' or counter system has been successfully implemented. 5 years ago dealing with Tiki Taki was daunting, it is far less today and I dare say in 5 years time there will be a new 'system'.

I can certainly see the benefits, but I think theres is also a serious risk that it's a long term solution to a short term problem. I've much more preference for rounded training and getting players technically proficient first and foremost rather than proficient in a particular system. For example, Neuer is often cited as a very competent central midfielder and regularly trains in outfield positions. That I am all for.

Most elite development models use 4-3-3 be they Southampton or Barcelona or Feynoord/Ajax. The reason is it produces players who are more technically flexible because by its nature it needs rotation, under and overlaps, centre halves being confident on the ball etc.

Technically flexible = versatile for changing formations.

[WolfOfWestStreet]

Not only was he a shite manager but he was he was an absolute prat to boot.

I hated the way he just didn't get it when we beat the gas. He didn't understand this club at all, too busy writing his autobiography in his programme notes, like we were too stupid to understand that the dog shit he served up every week was all part of his deranged master plan.

If there's ever a team that love to wallow in self pity it's Liverpool so in truth they'll be a match made in heaven when they're blaming everyone else but themselves.

[Kid in the Riot]

SOD is just another in a long line of recent BCFC managers who've left the club to go onto bigger and better things yet the club's supporters blame any given bad run of form on that manager and fail to take into account any mitigating circumstances.

Pulis, Millen, McInnes, SOD

Coppell massively successful before he arrived etc

[Red-Robbo]

[Red-Robbo]

SOD is just another in a long line of recent BCFC managers who've left the club to go onto bigger and better things yet the club's supporters blame any given bad run of form on that manager and fail to take into account any mitigating circumstances.

Pulis, Millen, McInnes, SOD

Coppell massively successful before he arrived etc

And not successful afterwards...

Pulis is the only one you can say went on to better things in English football as a manager.

And that was because he was intelligent enough to learn from his failure here.

You're trying to twist history to fit your personal belief/faith in one of the most dismal city managers of all time.

[Monkeh]

The cult is still going strong

21 games without a win (including 1 and a half transfer windows and 2 loan windows)

Yes I blame sod fully he was a shit manager with no man management who brought in journey men played hoof ball and had the man management skill of hitler

[Aussie]

The cult is still going strong

21 games without a win (including 1 and a half transfer windows and 2 loan windows)

Yes I blame sod fully he was a shit manager with no man management who brought in journey men played hoof ball and had the man management skill of hitler

Absolutely.

It beggars belief that people can still possibly remotely defend the utter dross that idiot brought to the club.

To quote Lansdown in the pub at Crewe "I came back into the country and found we were celebrating drawing at home with Leyton Orient, I thought goodness me where have we come to...."

He droned on about passing and tactics, then we'd be treated to 90 mins of hoofball rubbish and a side with zero confidence frightened to death every time an opposition attacked until surprise surprise they'd score.

His interviews were awful.

"That's what an ugly 1-0 feels like" - after we had drawn 1-1.

He was a total failure. The football was rubbish to watch and we were at the foot of the league.

I have no doubt we'd have gone down with that idiot.

[spudski]

But forget all that Spud. Did he live up to ANY of that at AG?

And if Brendan Rodgers had bought a season ticket while SOD was here, he'd not have given him the steam off his piss, let alone a job.

If Sean has learnt from his mistakes in Bristol, he might refind his worth in football.

You and I have both been round the block long enough to know, that we have employed over the years, many managers that were quiet capable of doing a good job for us...and they had shown it previously and after being with us.

 

It isn't Sean who needs to learn from mistakes, but our Club...regardless of how we get their...I hope we have.

[AshtonGreat]

[Vincent Vega]

You and I have both been round the block long enough to know, that we have employed over the years, many managers that were quiet capable of doing a good job for us...and they had shown it previously and after being with us.

 

It isn't Sean who needs to learn from mistakes, but our Club...regardless of how we get their...I hope we have.

if this was the case he would never be sacked from any job he ever had....!

[GrahamC]

And not successful afterwards...

Pulis is the only one you can say went on to better things in English football as a manager.

And that was because he was intelligent enough to learn from his failure here.

You're trying to twist history to fit your personal belief/faith in one of the most dismal city managers of all time.

Now that the Pulis era is so far in the past I can see this somewhat differently.

Now personally I wouldn't piss on Pulis if he was on fire but his success was not actually through doing anything much differently from what he did here, just by being given far more time and signing players much less injury prone.

The bigger issue with him was he was just about the worst fit for our club you can imagine, a spiky individual who is Welsh, gas and a purveyor of hoofball that made Osman look like he'd borrowed Swansea's coaching manual.

As a result he had zero goodwill, which as those defenders of O'Driscoll and Wilson on here show doesn't depend so much on success or results but on the way the game is played.

We'll tolerate winning football that is more direct (as in 89/90) but not drawing football....

[spudski]

if this was the case he would never be sacked from any job he ever had....!

Pretty much every manager gets the sack...doesn't make them bad.

 

Football is a strange game....fans blame managers....but never really look into why they fail.

 

It's often down to a revolving door of managers, no stability, and an ever changing structure at the Club.

 

Mitigating circumstances from previous managers all trying to do their best often don't get taken into consideration.

 

I find it laughable that fans can think we've had failure after failure of managers...and they blame it purely on them.

 

Our own Club has been a laughing stock for years. When you consider how much money has been thrown at it....its been an abject failure...shocking tbh.

 

People talk about our Club in recent years spiralling out of control...manager after manager....and it was all their fault.... I think not.

 

You could have had Ferguson in here and it wouldn't have made any difference.

 

The blame lies firmly at the owner and board for what we've been through in recent years. Total incompetence considering the money thrown about.

[AshtonGreat]

Pretty much every manager gets the sack...doesn't make them bad.

Football is a strange game....fans blame managers....but never really look into why they fail.

It's often down to a revolving door of managers, no stability, and an ever changing structure at the Club.

Mitigating circumstances from previous managers all trying to do their best often don't get taken into consideration.

I find it laughable that fans can think we've had failure after failure of managers...and they blame it purely on them.

Our own Club has been a laughing stock for years. When you consider how much money has been thrown at it....its been an abject failure...shocking tbh.

People talk about our Club in recent years spiralling out of control...manager after manager....and it was all their fault.... I think not.

You could have had Ferguson in here and it wouldn't have made any difference.

The blame lies firmly at the owner and board for what we've been through in recent years. Total incompetence considering the money thrown about.

Sorry Spud, but none of that explains or excuses SOD's abject failure to in any way motivate a group of players for the last six games of our relegation season. At least SC would've gone down fighting.

[Vincent Vega]

Pretty much every manager gets the sack...doesn't make them bad.

 

Football is a strange game....fans blame managers....but never really look into why they fail.

 

It's often down to a revolving door of managers, no stability, and an ever changing structure at the Club.

 

Mitigating circumstances from previous managers all trying to do their best often don't get taken into consideration.

 

I find it laughable that fans can think we've had failure after failure of managers...and they blame it purely on them.

 

Our own Club has been a laughing stock for years. When you consider how much money has been thrown at it....its been an abject failure...shocking tbh.

 

People talk about our Club in recent years spiralling out of control...manager after manager....and it was all their fault.... I think not.

 

You could have had Ferguson in here and it wouldn't have made any difference.

 

The blame lies firmly at the owner and board for what we've been through in recent years. Total incompetence considering the money thrown about.

But apart from 4 years in the late 70's that is our history..

[RED4LIFE]

Just to add my tuppence-worth, I think any manager that came in after Johnson was pretty much on a hiding to nothing. The main reason I say that is because it is almost impossible to successfully steer a rudderless ship. There was no long term planning at board level in place to support the growth of the club apart from spending SL's money and that is where the major cause of our subsequent slip down the leagues came from.

McInnes and SOD were basically tasked with building an entirely new culture and way of working from scratch with limited funds and that will always take time. Certainly more time than the average football fan is prepared to give a manager anyway. Didn't SOD say that it would be his successor that is likely to benefit from the work he was doing at the time? That turned out to be pretty much true.

I have to agree that the football and results at the time were utter shite though and he had to go, but the disdain he is held in by certain sections of our support is maybe a little unfair considering the foundations he was putting into place behind the scenes. The same can be said for DMc too.

Personally, I place the blame for our demise at Johnsons, Coppells and Lansdowns door. Johnsons because he spent significant amounts on players that weren't good enough, Coppells for spending big then running away (although in hindsight he may have made the right decision to cut and run) and Lansdown for allowing it all to happen.

[Aussie]

Successor benefit from the work he did?

He did fk all.

Brought us the worst football I've seen and we were rock bottom of the table with no confidence...

He didn't actually bring us anything.

Success principally came from players signed after he left.

[Sixtyseconds]

And not successful afterwards...

Pulis is the only one you can say went on to better things in English football as a manager.

And that was because he was intelligent enough to learn from his failure here.

You're trying to twist history to fit your personal belief/faith in one of the most dismal city managers of all time.

Bristol City is a decent gig to have on a cv.

Reckon jobs with England and Liverpool are better things.

The dumb beasts up the road will claim none of them have done anything in the game till they've taken charge of an XI of ginger beards and odd shaped skulls.

[Aizoon]

Amazing how many people try to refute the proposition that SoD was a decent coach by saying, rightly, that he was a lousy manager.

 

I would be annoyed if someone criticised my ability as a programmer by saying I was a lousy ice-skater...

[CliftonCliff]

Just to add my tuppence-worth, I think any manager that came in after Johnson was pretty much on a hiding to nothing. The main reason I say that is because it is almost impossible to successfully steer a rudderless ship. There was no long term planning at board level in place to support the growth of the club apart from spending SL's money and that is where the major cause of our subsequent slip down the leagues came from.

McInnes and SOD were basically tasked with building an entirely new culture and way of working from scratch with limited funds and that will always take time. Certainly more time than the average football fan is prepared to give a manager anyway. Didn't SOD say that it would be his successor that is likely to benefit from the work he was doing at the time? That turned out to be pretty much true.

I have to agree that the football and results at the time were utter shite though and he had to go, but the disdain he is held in by certain sections of our support is maybe a little unfair considering the foundations he was putting into place behind the scenes. The same can be said for DMc too.

Personally, I place the blame for our demise at Johnsons, Coppells and Lansdowns door. Johnsons because he spent significant amounts on players that weren't good enough, Coppells for spending big then running away (although in hindsight he may have made the right decision to cut and run) and Lansdown for allowing it all to happen.

 

Careful. You're in danger of talking some common sense. That kind of behaviour isn't tolerated round here - as you can already see from some of the responses.