marshy Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 Moving the problem to Dover is possibly the worst thing we can do. You'll never keep them out then. The answer is to significantly strengthen both the eurotunnel and port. The reason the tunnel has come under attack from this mob is because the port processes are now much stronger. It's not about border or not. You need to check each truck, each car and when any are found then you imprison them for trespassing. You don't fix the problem by letting them in. They are like ants you let one in, then there's another and another etc. Tough times require tough measures. Hate to reiterate but in Australia we detain every claimant and do not let in anyone now. They are either sent back or settled on Papua. The reason is simple - people just don't want them. I wasn't advocating that this is what should happen, just pointing out that it was a commonly held point of view in France given that many French view us as a soft touch for migrants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jimmer Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 Seriously what is the matter with bleeding heart Liberals?? It's their failed set of values that have landed us with these deadshits at the door and the mess so many countries are in since the 1960s. The reason we've got this lot trying to get in is because we have these soft policies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILINFRANCE Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 You have to wonder what the 500 unaccompanied minors now being cared for by Kent C.C., foster carers and social workers were doing before they reached British soil. We have a legal duty to look after them, the French would obviously be happy to see them die on the streets---or am I being too harsh. I don't know, I don't live there. From what I read in the French press there are plenty of French voices saying that our rules regarding identity cards for work and benefits are too lax and this is what is causing the problem. Consequently they are advocating that the problem be switched from Calais, which is effectively the border at the moment, to Dover, where they think the border should be. From the French point of view there is a certain logic to just letting them through thus forcing us to deal with the problem at Dover. You are, indeed, being too harsh. There are numerous government-funded and volunteer organisations providing shelter, water, electricity and basic meals. Whatever your views as to the rights and wrongs of the problem, you must surely accept that a bare minimum of humanitarian aid is only fair. What annoys me is the housing of these migrants in relatively luxurious accommodation and providing relatively sumptuous meals. Why can't they be housed in, for instance, old military barracks, under armed guard if necessary, and given basic meals until their cases have been heard. There is a certain logic and justification in France's suggestion that, regardless of the treaty signed by both countries, the border be moved back to Dover. Why, after all, should France have to finance what is, in effect, a European problem. The police in Calais and at the tunnel are hopelessly outnumbered and totally overwhelmed, but that is not their fault. The French government could send hundreds more police and/or troops, but choose not too. Calais is not the cause of the problem, but the town and various trades are suffering nevertheless: you can understand why they are so keen for the problem to be shifted away from their doorstep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS2 Red Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 Seriously what is the matter with bleeding heart Liberals?? It's their failed set of values that have landed us with these deadshits at the door and the mess so many countries are in since the 1960s. The reason we've got this lot trying to get in is because we have these soft policies I am loving the irony of an Aussie lecturing on the dangers of immigration and how natives should be tougher to keep out immigrants.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jimmer Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 I am loving the irony of an Aussie lecturing on the dangers of immigration and how natives should be tougher to keep out immigrants.... Ha. Spot on lad. To quote The White Stripes, "Why don't you kick yourself out, you're an immigrant too" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 I am loving the irony of an Aussie lecturing on the dangers of immigration and how natives should be tougher to keep out immigrants.... You don't think times are just mildly different to 200 years ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS2 Red Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 You don't think times are just mildly different to 200 years ago? Of course they are. One big difference is the people trying to get into Britain are not planning to steal all of our land, murder the majority of us and then steal the children of the few natives that remain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 Of course they are. One big difference is the people trying to get into Britain are not planning to steal all of our land, murder the majority of us and then steal the children of the few natives that remain. B for effort E at best for factual correctness or context of the times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jimmer Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 B for effort E at best for factual correctness or context of the times. Or admit that your ramblings on here reak of hypocrisy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasbuster Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 Alternatively, if a solider has gone to war to a country and killed innocent people. I'd rather a give a home to a citizen of that country seeking asylum, than that soldier What even some hate cleric, terrorist or sympathiser ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 No party is perfect and I don't align myself to any of them unconditionally. But in general I think the kind of people we have been alluding to would be more looked after by a labour government. Actually even more so if they are going further to the left! I do find it appalling that charities like Help for Heroes even have to exist. It seems ridiculous to me that you can be injured fighting for your country and rely on a charity to look after you. and meanwhile in the real world. Ed Balls had 700 mil of cuts lined up for the armed services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
22A Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 The migrant crisis. According to official United Nations policy, anyone fleeing their country is a refugee. Once you've reached a new country, you are no longer a refugee. How did all these people get to Calais in the first place? Because on arrival in France they declare they are not staying in France, just passing through and so are permitted entry. Why do these people want to come to Britain?...Because they know the government, regardless of which party is in power, will give them taxpayer's money. Mid day Radio 2 news Sunday, an Ethiopean woman claimed we are violating her rights as we are refusing her permission to cross our border. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richwwtk Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 I think this is the first issue I've seen that makes me wonder why we bother with the EU. Surely this should be an EU problem, not just us and France? It should require an EU solution but we seem to just be being hung out to dry and completely ignored. For that reason, I'm blaming the Germans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 Question: does anyone know if it would be legal for the UK to station armed troops at Calais? The UK's border is there but ... No and the uk's border isn't there. The UK has an agreement with France that means passports of people travelling to the UK are checked there, rather than in Dover. That isn't the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 No and the uk's border isn't there. The UK has an agreement with France that means passports of people travelling to the UK are checked there, rather than in Dover. That isn't the same thing. Pretty sure the French would be open to posting British personnel - military or civilian to protect the tunnel and port. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshy Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 Did anyone see 'Hard Talk' tonight on the migrant crisis? Classic quote from the Deputy Mayor of Calais. ''The EU has a Commissioner for Migration. I don't know what he's doing. He's Greek so probably nothing.'' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richwwtk Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 Pretty sure the French would be open to posting British personnel - military or civilian to protect the tunnel and port. You seem to have a typically military mindset and as such should be ignored. To paraphrase Bill Hicks "You're the military, go sit over there and when we need you we'll let you know". It doesn't matter how many people we throw at Calais, the immigrants are going to keep coming. We need to either stop them coming by fixing things elsewhere, or we need to deal with them in a humane manner once they have arrived. As I have said previously, this shouldn't be burdened onto the UK or France alone, it is an EU problem and should be dealt with as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jimmer Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jimmer Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 and meanwhile in the real world. Ed Balls had 700 mil of cuts lined up for the armed services. True, but nothing the tories wouldn't have done. They are seriously going to town on public cuts now and I have heard rumours its going to get a lot worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jimmer Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 I too am against international finance raping the world and turning people and countries into debt slaves, but we have to start from where we are and we could, if we had the will, divert some foreign aid money towards the needs of our own people. I have a feeling that might happen actually. Some foreign aid has done a lot of good in the world but a lot of it is utterly wasted. It is not unfair to speculate about the motives of migrants if you've actually spoken to them, which I have - African and Arabic, in the local 'Cultural Center'. I was told on several occasions that they were chilling in Italy for 5 years until they got a passport and then they were heading in one direction, and I'll leave you to guess which direction. o It's obvious that 'people don't just want to leave their country for no reason'. For Nick Higgs it's to avoid a lynching. Some are escaping war and famine, and they should, according to the UN rules, reside in the closest safe country they find. Some are economic migrants - again they live in poverty and shit-holes and who can blame them for wanting housing benefit, food, safety and all the rest of it. But no ... they should remain and fight it out in their own country, just as people in Europe had to as I said over hundreds of years. People who have less moving to countries that could give them more is totally unsustainable, they would chew off the hand that fed them, and is also immoral on a number of levels. Every professional that runs from an African country is doing his or her bit to ensure that country's future conwith things.tinues to be totally shit. I don't actually think we are worlds apart from agreeing on certain things I just think you have a much more conservative perspective. I believe that the only way we are going to tackle the issue of migration is to help make the governments of these poorer countries more transparent, eliminate corruption and create fair trade deals to export their resources. The comments I have read like "send in the army" and "shut the channel tunnel" are very simplistic statements and are not going to help anyone. Sadly, I don't think I will get my own way though. The problems will get worse which will play into the hands of more extreme parties like UKIP. And granted this comment is admittedly very hysterical, but this has similarities of when the Nazi's gained power! Scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 I don't actually think we are worlds apart from agreeing on certain things I just think you have a much more conservative perspective. I believe that the only way we are going to tackle the issue of migration is to help make the governments of these poorer countries more transparent, eliminate corruption and create fair trade deals to export their resources. The comments I have read like "send in the army" and "shut the channel tunnel" are very simplistic statements and are not going to help anyone. Sadly, I don't think I will get my own way though. The problems will get worse which will play into the hands of more extreme parties like UKIP. And granted this comment is admittedly very hysterical, but this has similarities of when the Nazi's gained power! Scary. Come on, you can't call Big Brothers suggestions simplistic and replace them with wooly statements like "...eliminate corruption". Yes, it is s massive problem, even today payments from oil companies to Somali civil servants have come to light, but it's a hugely complex issue and deeply ingrained. And the current issue has no similarity to the rise of Nazism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jimmer Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 Come on, you can't call Big Brothers suggestions simplistic and replace them with wooly statements like "...eliminate corruption". Yes, it is s massive problem, even today payments from oil companies to Somali civil servants have come to light, but it's a hugely complex issue and deeply ingrained. And the current issue has no similarity to the rise of Nazism. I don't think Big Brothers comments were simplistic to be fair apart from the reference to a Daily Mail article, but there is a lot of garbage on here if you look. There have been examples of African countries creating transparent governments and nearly eliminating corruption. Ethiopia being a prime example, now a fantastic place to go on holiday. I understand that it will never completely disappear (It happens on a smaller scale in this country). Nazis rose to power partly due to a period of uncertainty and protest votes did they not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshy Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 I don't actually think we are worlds apart from agreeing on certain things I just think you have a much more conservative perspective. I believe that the only way we are going to tackle the issue of migration is to help make the governments of these poorer countries more transparent, eliminate corruption and create fair trade deals to export their resources. The comments I have read like "send in the army" and "shut the channel tunnel" are very simplistic statements and are not going to help anyone. Sadly, I don't think I will get my own way though. The problems will get worse which will play into the hands of more extreme parties like UKIP. And granted this comment is admittedly very hysterical, but this has similarities of when the Nazi's gained power! Scary. I think you will find that way back Farage was one of the first politicians to say that we should be offering asylum to Syrian refugees. There are plenty of references to this if you google it. But of course Farage is a racist, isn't he? Going back to an earlier point I think you will also find that UKIP has the most positive policies towards helping ex-servicemen and women. Plenty of references to that as well or you can look on their website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 I don't think Big Brothers comments were simplistic to be fair apart from the reference to a Daily Mail article, but there is a lot of garbage on here if you look. There have been examples of African countries creating transparent governments and nearly eliminating corruption. Ethiopia being a prime example, now a fantastic place to go on holiday. I understand that it will never completely disappear (It happens on a smaller scale in this country). Nazis rose to power partly due to a period of uncertainty and protest votes did they not? Ethiopia - I did not know that, and it's pleasing to hear. Unfortunately that is the exception to the rule, but with Chinese investment hopefully other countries with similar difficulties will change in time. The situation in Germany was complicated. It had just suffered a humiliating armistice, hyper inflation and near civil war between various groups. We're not close to that, although Greece is a good example of the far right expanding due to social issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jimmer Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jimmer Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 I think you will find that way back Farage was one of the first politicians to say that we should be offering asylum to Syrian refugees. There are plenty of references to this if you google it. But of course Farage is a racist, isn't he? Going back to an earlier point I think you will also find that UKIP has the most positive policies towards helping ex-servicemen and women. Plenty of references to that as well or you can look on their website. I have a huge problem taking any UKIP policy seriously. I honestly believe that Farage doesn't actually care about immigration or public services. They have just manufactured a way to get disillusioned people to vote for them which worked effectively in the last election. It was blatantly obvious that he was coming out with offensive shit almost on que whenever he thought his chips were down. If they did ever govern the country I suggest that life would become worse for the average working person as they are further to the right than Tories! You only have to look at how they are funded to notice that they are up to no good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS2 Red Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 I think you will find that way back Farage was one of the first politicians to say that we should be offering asylum to Syrian refugees. There are plenty of references to this if you google it. But of course Farage is a racist, isn't he? Farage said we should allow some Christian refugees in from Syria. I am not sure if he is a racist but he's definately a bigot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 Pretty sure the French would be open to posting British personnel - military or civilian to protect the tunnel and port. They've already said they wouldn't. It's French sovereign territory. Would we allow a French Army base, to pursue French national policy in the UK? France doesn't give a shit about immigrants wanting to go to the UK. Why should it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 Because we're all in this together aren't we? We European brothers, awash with internationalist solidarity. Now you're just being silly! ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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