The Official Sheffield Wednesday V Champions Match Day Thread

[Harry]

Ayling yes. Pack no way, been caught in possession too often and looks slow off the mark.

 

This was after 36 mins, when Pack had been caught in posession ONCE! Not too often, ONCE.

 

Freeman not impressed with Pack's pass there
 

Pack has been incredibly frustrating 1st half. Poor decision making and his passing has been way off.

 

Overhit 1 cross-field pass up to this point, and played 2 through balls out of play, in attempting to force forward play.  By this stage Korey had given the ball away numerous time too, but no comment on him.

 

Look closer to home Pack not good enough for league one let alone championship

 

Written off already.

 

I'm sorry but Pack is well out of his depth here.

 

Written off already

 

Was thinking the same

 

Written off already

 

Pack booked

 

 

Deary me

 

What a great reaction to someone getting booked.  It'll happen to all of our players this season, hope they all get a "deary me".  Pack was booked for 'taking one for the team', bringing down a man who was going to run through.  Good booking in my opinion.

 

 

It's gonna be a long old season for Pack

 

Written off already

 

 

Marlon pack,just letting his man run.shocking

 

This was the comment on the 2nd goal.  Where Pack tracked back with the man from the edge of the Sheff box, all the way to half way inside our own half.  Initially the break was 3 on 3, but Pack correctly didn't dive in, and held the man from running all the way through on goal.  The fact the cross wasn't stopped, and then Fielding went awol is not the fault of the midfielder who tracked 50+ yards and jockeyed his man well.

 

 

Afraid I've never seen enough in Pack to think he may cut it in Championship - looked 'ok' in a very good side at tail end of L1
 

As you said SuperBob, you're judging him on previous, which is fine.  I think a lot of people would say he looked more than just "ok" in L1, so I do think your mind is already made up.

 

Only one game but Pack has looked particularly off the pace to me today out of everyone but no one is pulling up trees by any stretch.

 

Exactly.  One game, where you admit that no one looked good, yet Pack is the one singled out.

 

Packs lack of pace nearly leads to a third...

 

You mean the one when Korey lost it on the half way line, Pack chased the man back, Flint came flying out and overshot his challenge, leaving Pack the only man left, who was beaten for pace by a lad from Portugal who's arrived in this league with one main attribute - pace.  I think Joao would've beaten anyone to that ball bar Burns.

 

I think we will struggle with Pack in midfield this season.

 

Written off already

 

Pack looked niggly and got caught in possession too many times, he also misplaced too many passes but he was probably my only major criticism.

 

Got caught in possession 3 times I think.  Less than Korey, Fredericks, Freeman, Wilbs.  Mis-placed a couple of passes in the 1st half, but much better radar in the 2nd.  Smith, Williams, Bryan to name a few mis-placed just as many if not more passes, yet he was your only major criticism?

 

A lot to think about, though what happened to our midfield? Number of times we had possession in defence but had no options.

 

The midfield saw plenty of ball (how else could they have so say mis-placed sooo many passes.

The fact the CB's chose to hit diagonals too often was not the fault of the midfield, it's a tactic we adopted plenty last season.

 

Anyone else with me in thinking the transfer priorities should be a box to box midfielder (replacing Pack). As for the midfielder I'm not sure if Pack is championship quality, think we need someone to go forward more.

 

Written off already.  This guy wants his shiedling midfielder to go forward more!

 

I think we need more of a defensive midfielder to replace Pack to be honest.

 

Written off already.

 

Midfield was always going to be a problem, even in some game last season, our midfield didn't dominate or control

 

Written off already, and clearly a shot at Pack, not Korey - cuz no one critiscises Korey, even when he's had a stinker today!

 

Pack is my main worry for this season.  His performance against Swindon last season should have rang all the alarm bells.  Against anyone with pace he is toast.  His solution is dodgy freekicks on the edge of our box.  We desperately need a good, pacy central midfielder.

 

Written off already.  How many free kicks on the edge of the box were given away today?  I remember Freeman giving one.

 

Pack imho was the weak link last season and he's had a stinker today. Its early days yet and he did finish the season on a high, improving greatly, I'm not fighting him off yet bit on todays performance he looked way out of his depth

 

Everyone had a stinker today.  All bar Flint looked out of their depth today.

 

I like Pack but he does make a lot of bad choices in dangerous areas, his radar was a bit off today and gave it away too much.

 

As said before, gave it away 3 or 4 times in the first half, but was much more accurate 2nd half.  Others gave the ball away many more times, but aren't receiving critique.

 

End of the day pack was awful which left smith so exposed,if pack can't pass 10 yards without giving it away then we are in trouble

 

Gave it away about 4 times.  2 cross-field diagonals, and a couple of attempted incisive passes.  Don't think it was a case of not being able to pass it 10 yards.  Korey's passing was worse than Pack's today, but no antagonism levelled his way?

 

People may just be judging Pack on what they've seen of him , not just today but in his career to date , incl with us in L1 Harry

Just a point to ponder

Don't think people are judging him on today's performance alone and to infer so is naive

Biggest thing for me is zero pace over 5 or 20 yes and you have to be some player to be competitive in a midfield role in Champ to make it without it

I enjoy reading your posts but others are entitled to their opinions (There are a number who saw today's game who disagree with a number of your points) the same as you are to yours

I appreciate SuperBob that a couple of posters have given their rationale and are perfectly entitled to their opinion, but I don't think I'm being naive at all mate.  Read the 20 or so quoted posts above and tell me that some people aren't going over the top a bit, based on 1 performance where he was nowhere near our worst player.

 

just got back to the batcave and the journey home was full of reflection of the game today.

 

The cider i was drinking in the horse and jockey up the hill from the stadium is out of my system now and there were things i was saying at the end of the game which i would not be saying now. This is the kick up the arse that the club (both on and off the field) need, and a major wake up call as to what the Championship is all about.

 

But one thing still rings true from what i did say at the end of the game, and it appears some have beaten me to it. Marlon Pack.

 

An absolute waste of space, i have no idea what he has brought this club since he joined, yet some people see him as a Pirlo / Scholes-esque player. Laughable. A Cheltenham fan i know was happy to see the back of him when he left them to join us. We are in for a long hard season if he is going to be our first choice central midfielder all season. Smith was poor today but still had a bit of skill on the ball, a lot more movement and i think he was doing the job of 2 players in the midfield battle. The first player we should have bought in the summer was a central midfielder to replace Elliot, but we are where we are and we are only 3 points off top.

Thanks for the opinion you perfectly entitled to.  But do you seriously think Korey played crap because Pack played crap?  Korey was poor in his own right, as were many others.

 

Read my post #638 Harry please before you say another 'Sadly though, because he got tackled once he'll be everyone's boo boy'

Getting tiresome now tbh

Again, read the previous posts and tell me there isn't an element of boo boy mentality in them.

What's tiresome is the entirely predictable backlash that Pack receives from some fans whenever he plays.  Many are still judging him on half a dozen games at the start of Sod's reign.  Pack has more than proven himself over last season, just like Flint, Williams & Fielding, who also had pretty slow starts under Sod, but they've all been forgiven it seems.  Mr Pack just can't shake it off with some fans, despite being one of our most consistent performers in the last 20-25 games last season.

 

 

I respect your posts on here tremendously, Harry, but poor form to just write off everyone who is critical of Pack as "boo boys"; several have articulated why they felt his contribution was part of a poor performance, so it strikes me as narrow minded to write this off so flippantly.

I'm by no means calling for his head, but felt his insistence on taking time on the ball when he had none and bad decisions outweighed his other contributions, such as his long passes.

That isn't to say others didn't perform well too, and Smith didn't cover himself with glory as you say, but deriding the observations of others as the words of "boo boys" is an unfortunate position to take.

Samo.  I'm not calling everyone a boo boy, but just look at how many people have written him off after 1 game, a game in which he was nowhere near our worst player, and in which none of our team covered themselves in glory.

I use the term boo boy quite deliberately, because believe me, I can see it only being a matter of time (and a few defeats), before fans at the ground will start getting vocal.  Some of that will have stemmed from the untruths spoken on here about his performances.  Once it starts, it won't stop, and will spiral into jeers at the ground.

 

I think today was a poor day all round for all of our players.  Fielding, Williams, Fredericks, Ayling, Smith, Freeman, Wilbraham & Kodjia could ALL have fair criticism levelled at them today after their performances, yet the only player getting singled out is Pack.  That's why I use the term boo boy, because there are a number of posters who are singling Pack out for special treatment, and that's not right.

 

I'm not saying Pack is the answer, and I would happily upgrade him and a few others in the team for much better players, but the way some people are writing, is that he's the worst player in the squad by a mile, and he's far from it.

[Olé]

My train broke down three times and then gave up at Derby so I missed the first 15min but I still saw enough to wonder what is going through the mind of people complaining about Pack. WTF. He was the only player finding others in space and opening it up. In my humble opinion I used to watch Korey Smith in awe last season and before Flint's last two months he was my POTY, but he is was really not in it today and light years worse than Pack.

Only one other comment with no disrespect to Wilbs but Flint will be captain before too long and he wants it.

[joe jordans teeth]

Is pack the new lee Johnson ?

. He wishes

[Aaron-Bcfc]

I thought Pack was one of our best performers today! Certainly first half when he was dropping back and doing a job on Nuhiu, who at 6'6 is more than a handful.

[havanatopia]

A confidence boosting win against Luton and this match can be submitted to the trash can of history.

[PHILINFRANCE]

I hope you don't mind a Wednesday fan barging in.  I spent much of my childhood in Bristol and sometimes stood in the Enclosure to watch City in Division one.  (A 3-2 against Leeds comes to mind.  And names!  Merrick!  Drysdale! Sweeney!  Fear!  And - heartbreaking - Paul Cheeseley).  Subsequently have always kept an eye on their results.

 

I  can't comment about individual players: it was bad enough trying to identify our own.  But:

 

• I was struck looking at the programme by how small the squad seems to be.  Obviously that's not an issue that bears on today, but you guys really are going to need more bodies.  
• It really is a big step up.  When we came up in 2012 we had had an immense run from mid-Jan, and I really thought we would be competitive.  Not so.  So take a goal like our second: you can say it was a nice quick punchy counter, and you can say that City's defending was naive, and both are true.  But: the point is you seldom have to cope with anything like that in the lower league.  At the most general level, I would say that players who looked  fine  in league one can often just look slow and clumsy in the championship
• Until the first goal, I thought it was a reasonable well-organised defensive performance was City, esp in the middle.  From time to time you were ripped apart down the flanks, but to be honest Mattias, Wallace and Hunt (all making debuts) are more challenging than you'll normally face.  
• The main worry would be a lack of creativity and a lack of strength upfront.  I couldn't quite see where the goals were coming from.  Tho' possibly you should have had the penalty near the end: I thought not, but both my kids thought it was.  But the upcoming home matches will be the better test.

I wouldn't by any means think of pressing panic buttons, and unquestionably you'll learn.  But Mr L does I think need to authorise some spend..

 

Re. 'barging in', I believe fair, constructive and sensible criticism is always welcome from whatever source, so, personally, I appreciated your comments from the ground (I watched on 'tv') and agree for the most part.

 

I am also intrigued how, of all the players you could have chosen for your user name, you picked the unsung hero Trevor Tainton. 

[havanatopia]

Trevor Tainton IS a hero. End of Phil

 

Agreed, good post by the Wed/City fan

[OwlsonlineAdmin]

Does for me. Hate the place.

You're entitled to your opinion but the City is nice and we sit on the cusp of a national park, stunning scenery if you ever get the chance to take it in.

Glad some perspective of how difficult this season will be. A lot of people need to calm their expectations and support the team.

Positives

1. Loads of empty seats at Hillsborough / pathetic attendance.

2. Gas lost

23k, let me know when you last had a 23k inside your stadium? There was more home fans there than our opening home fixture last season.

[Red-Robbo]

You're entitled to your opinion but the City is nice and we sit on the cusp of a national park, stunning scenery if you ever get the chance to take it in.

23k, let me know when you last had a 23k inside your stadium? There was more home fans there than our opening home fixture last season.

We haven't had the capacity to seat that number for some time. However that is being addressed.

[OwlsonlineAdmin]

My thoughts :

First off fair play to the City fans that made the trip at those prices 1,184 deserve credit, even the two minibus full of lads who tried to be a bit lairy outside the Leppings Lane End.

On to the game, I thought you were unfortunate to lose the lad Bryan as he seemed a threat, he and Freeman looked lively, wasn't impressed with Flint mind, expected more from him.

You seemed to have the possession in the first period without looking remotely threatening, Westwood had one gimme save to make from Wilbraham, we took a bit of time to settle but could and should have been ahead at half time just Matias and Lopez missed gilt edged chances.

Second half we took control and probed, our patience was rewarded with a simple header from a corner that an unmarked Tom Lees nodded home despite the best efforts of Fielding, you lot tried to get back into it with that Burns header that McGugan cleared and barely thirty seconds later Fielding misjudged a teasing Wallace ball that allowed McGugan to tap home, game set and match.

After that we had chances to extend the scoreline particulary the Matias chance after excellent work by Joao and Kieran Lee although you seemed to have claims for a penalty.

On the whole I felt it was comfortable and ended a 11 year wait for a home win over you.

If you cut out the long balls, which were food and drink for our defence and try and play the passing game you have you'll do ok, not sure Kodjia is the answer, he looked a little lost tbh get another striker in and Agard fit.

All the best.

[OwlsonlineAdmin]

We haven't had the capacity to seat that number for some time. However that is being addressed.

I was being facetious, but found it funny someone slating 23k.....

[Red-Robbo]

My thoughts :

First off fair play to the City fans that made the trip at those prices 1,184 deserve credit, even the two minibus full of lads who tried to be a bit lairy outside the Leppings Lane End.

On to the game, I thought you were unfortunate to lose the lad Bryan as he seemed a threat, he and Freeman looked lively, wasn't impressed with Flint mind, expected more from him.

You seemed to have the possession in the first period without looking remotely threatening, Westwood had one gimme save to make from Wilbraham, we took a bit of time to settle but could and should have been ahead at half time just Matias and Lopez missed gilt edged chances.

Second half we took control and probed, our patience was rewarded with a simple header from a corner that an unmarked Tom Lees nodded home despite the best efforts of Fielding, you lot tried to get back into it with that Burns header that McGugan cleared and barely thirty seconds later Fielding misjudged a teasing Wallace ball that allowed McGugan to tap home, game set and match.

After that we had chances to extend the scoreline particulary the Matias chance after excellent work by Joao and Kieran Lee although you seemed to have claims for a penalty.

On the whole I felt it was comfortable and ended a 11 year wait for a home win over you.

If you cut out the long balls, which were food and drink for our defence and try and play the passing game you have you'll do ok, not sure Kodjia is the answer, he looked a little lost tbh get another striker in and Agard fit.

All the best.

TBF that is Kodjia's first English league game.

In Cotts we trust to fit him into our style which - last season - was based on exactly the sort of passing game you describe.

[OwlsonlineAdmin]

TBF that is Kodjia's first English league game.

In Cotts we trust to fit him into our style which - last season - was based on exactly the sort of passing game you describe.

It was the same for Joao, who did more in 20 minutes than Kodjia did all the time he was on the pitch.

[JoeAman08]

I was being facetious, but found it funny someone slating 23k.....

23k is good. I just think we all feel it could've been more if the tickets would've been a tenner cheaper. I watched it and it didn't look full so I imagine your capacity is around 30k?

We can't say much though as our aren't much cheaper for our opener. Think 34 but that may not be our cheapest. Point is, football ticket prices in England are appalling. Our 16k(for now) will probably just about sell out no matter the price as it's the first game(and about 12.5k season tickets of I'm not mistaken).

To the game, SW surprised me. I thought they'd be less organized than they were with their new signings. Think you did a fair bit of business early though and seems to have paid off. Wallace and your other winger(can't remember but missed a couple gimmes) were outstanding and will be a nightmare for everyone if they play like that every week. I've watched this group for Bristol City quite a bit last season and we always struggled with one of our wing backs missing. We played a good hour without both. Fredricks needs time to adapt to the role and I hope Bryan isn't out long(naughty challenge by the way) and Little can come back soon. With Bryan and Little out there we are much better both attacking and defensively as they both know when to get forward and when to sit back a bit. Our strikers had no service at all. Don't think it's too fair to judge them harshly. Kodjia needs more time to get some English down and an understanding with Wilbs and Agard. Just think it's too early to judge everyone. Think a good spanking will do us some good. Hopefully show our owner we need to spend a bit more, our manager the holes and what we need to work on and the squad that mistakes will be punished and need to be close to perfect.

[OwlsonlineAdmin]

23k is good. I just think we all feel it could've been more if the tickets would've been a tenner cheaper. I watched it and it didn't look full so I imagine your capacity is around 30k?

We can't say much though as our aren't much cheaper for our opener. Think 34 but that may not be our cheapest. Point is, football ticket prices in England are appalling. Our 16k(for now) will probably just about sell out no matter the price as it's the first game(and about 12.5k season tickets of I'm not mistaken).

To the game, SW surprised me. I thought they'd be less organized than they were with their new signings. Think you did a fair bit of business early though and seems to have paid off. Wallace and your other winger(can't remember but missed a couple gimmes) were outstanding and will be a nightmare for everyone if they play like that every week. I've watched this group for Bristol City quite a bit last season and we always struggled with one of our wing backs missing. We played a good hour without both. Fredricks needs time to adapt to the role and I hope Bryan isn't out long(naughty challenge by the way) and Little can come back soon. With Bryan and Little out there we are much better both attacking and defensively as they both know when to get forward and when to sit back a bit. Our strikers had no service at all. Don't think it's too fair to judge them harshly. Kodjia needs more time to get some English down and an understanding with Wilbs and Agard. Just think it's too early to judge everyone. Think a good spanking will do us some good. Hopefully show our owner we need to spend a bit more, our manager the holes and what we need to work on and the squad that mistakes will be punished and need to be close to perfect.

Capacity is just shy of 40k.

[havanatopia]

I would just like to add that Sheffield is, on the whole, a pretty decent city. Certainly a lot more interesting a place than Leeds imo. And even if it wasn't not really any need for a poster to run it down. Bristol has its fair share of less than salubrious parts.

[havanatopia]

double post

Edited August 9, 2015 by havanatopia

[chipdawg]

It was the same for Joao, who did more in 20 minutes than Kodjia did all the time he was on the pitch.

Much easier for Joao to come on when your team is 2-0 up and dominating the game (which you were). But there's definitely work to do with Kodjia

I thought we were all over you in the first half, but you had by far the better chances- generally from our mistakes. Second half you just found an extra gear and we fell apart a bit. I think you look a decent team who'll get better as you gel. I think we can probably compete but need to work on our play in the final third

One more thing (and I do stress that this was not a reason for our loss, Wednesday thoroughly deserved the points) but I thought the referee was an utter disgrace. Freeman had his legs kicked out by a player on the floor as he advanced on goal (the Spanish centre mid I think) and we didn't get a free kick, then Bryan was clattered and had to go off (it was VERY naughty btw) and we didn't get a free kick, Helan barged Marlon Pack in the back to win the ball in the build up to the Wednesday second (a theme actually when challenging for headers) and we had a couple of very decent penalty shouts turned down, though Wednesday had at least one. One of the worst refs I've seen in ages. But as I said, not a factor in the result which was just down to Wednesday being the better side on the day

Edited August 9, 2015 by chipdawg

[JoeAman08]

Capacity is just shy of 40k.

Well there you go. Think you could've been close to that at 25 a ticket and appropriate youth tickets. It's over now though. Just think you guys missed an opportunity at filling your stadium. I would've most likely gone if not for the ticket prices and I'm sure you would've had a few more supporters as well.

Oh well though. Have a good season

[ioncetalkedtotrevortainton]

Well there you go. Think you could've been close to that at 25 a ticket and appropriate youth tickets. It's over now though. Just think you guys missed an opportunity at filling your stadium. I would've most likely gone if not for the ticket prices and I'm sure you would've had a few more supporters as well.

Oh well though. Have a good season

I am sure you would have brought more.  The two City fans I am in closest contact with stayed away: one on affordability grounds; one on principle.

 

We'd have had a few more too.  So quite possibly the crowd could have got to around 30k.  But: from the owner's point of view, the game is to get the non-ST ticket holders to take out memberships.  He's also going for highly differentiated price banding (City a higher category than Boro: you stand flattered), which is a sensible approach, but needs some calibration.  On balance he'll be happy enough.  The stayaway predicted by the mardier (local dialect) elements of our support didn't materialise.

 

I don't care for any of this.  But all of us are up against FFP rules which are about anything but fair play, and give massive advantages to incumbents.

[OwlsonlineAdmin]

Well there you go. Think you could've been close to that at 25 a ticket and appropriate youth tickets. It's over now though. Just think you guys missed an opportunity at filling your stadium. I would've most likely gone if not for the ticket prices and I'm sure you would've had a few more supporters as well.

Oh well though. Have a good season

Last time we had close to capacity was in 2012 when we got 39k v Wycombe.

[KeepUpLino]

Capacity is just shy of 40k.

Hillsboroughs stuck in a time warp, needs bulldozing to be fair.... Shithole

[OwlsonlineAdmin]

Hillsboroughs stuck in a time warp, needs bulldozing to be fair.... Shithole

???????

[BobBobSuperBob]

Hillsboroughs stuck in a time warp, needs bulldozing to be fair.... Shithole

Tbf keepy Ashton Gate was stuck in a time warp and Hillsborough is an iconic Ground with loads of history and a cauldron when anywhere near fullish

[JoeAman08]

Last time we had close to capacity was in 2012 when we got 39k v Wycombe.

Well regardless of FFP, think a cheaper ticket would've made your stadium look more full while still getting close to the same income. Say 30k at 30 a ticket compared to 39 at 23k. You make slightly more than at 39 per ticket. Of course you can't calculate it that way with season tickets but you get the point. Like I said it's pointless though as its over and even we are going to charge more than 30(which is too much but for now I'm gonna assume around average for this league) in some matches.

[OwlsonlineAdmin]

Well regardless of FFP, think a cheaper ticket would've made your stadium look more full while still getting close to the same income. Say 30k at 30 a ticket compared to 39 at 23k. You make slightly more than at 39 per ticket. Of course you can't calculate it that way with season tickets but you get the point. Like I said it's pointless though as its over and even we are going to charge more than 30(which is too much but for now I'm gonna assume around average for this league) in some matches.

We'd all love cheaper tickets mate but our new owner is aiming to try and get more season ticket holders by selling them much cheaper than match day (it was 42 quid for my seat but my ST works out at 20.86).

[JoeAman08]

We'd all love cheaper tickets mate but our new owner is aiming to try and get more season ticket holders by selling them much cheaper than match day (it was 42 quid for my seat but my ST works out at 20.86).

Fair enough. Not blaming SW solely for ticket prices just happened to be the first match so easier example. Just like seeing stadiums look full. All the empty seat are wasted. Maybe could've made U12s free for the first match bring more people in. As I said not SW solely just an example as we've seen it.

[KeepUpLino]

Tbf keepy Ashton Gate was stuck in a time warp and Hillsborough is an iconic Ground with loads of history and a cauldron when anywhere near fullish

Not anymore ???

[OwlsonlineAdmin]

Fair enough. Not blaming SW solely for ticket prices just happened to be the first match so easier example. Just like seeing stadiums look full. All the empty seat are wasted. Maybe could've made U12s free for the first match bring more people in. As I said not SW solely just an example as we've seen it.

I'm not fussed about what we got in to be honest, more home fans than first home fixture last season.

Hopefully winning games will get folk in, that said we charged 10 quid for Reading game last season, only 29k in.

[OwlsonlineAdmin]

Not anymore ???

Hillsborough is beautiful, better than Pride Park etc