The Official Sheffield Wednesday V Champions Match Day Thread

[Alex_BCFC]

Poor game from our perspective. I don't think Sheff Wed will be a top side so to be beaten so comfortably was disappointing.

 

First half we did OK in possession but didn't really hurt them. They should have scored with two great chances.

 

Second half is when we started to fall apart. Most things came down the side that Bryan had vacated and was being filled by Fredericks. Worrying that Bryan might be out and that Fredericks looked so poor. 

 

We looked solid from set pieces apart from the one that undid us. Very unlike us.

 

The only chance we had of note was Flint's header off the line and then they went and scored on the counter. Horrible mistake by Fielding - is he up to it at this level...question marks for me.

 

Burns did well and looked unlucky not to win a penalty late in the game. Freeman a good first half but then easily stopped in the 2nd - again a concern if teams work him out.

 

Derek Williams looked pretty poor today and not convinced if Pack can be a effective starter (his forward passing was very poor today). Korey, Flint and Ayling looked OK.

 

Upfront - passes through to Kodjia were poor and Wilbraham worked hard but didnt cause them many problems.

 

As has been said a million times, the squad is threadbare and even I would question if some of the first 11 are up to it let alone the subs.

 

It is hard not to be down after that but it is only one game and after last season, we know this group can come back and produce much better. We need a confidence booster at Luton and a player or two before Brentford home.

[The Batman]

just got back to the batcave and the journey home was full of reflection of the game today.

 

The cider i was drinking in the horse and jockey up the hill from the stadium is out of my system now and there were things i was saying at the end of the game which i would not be saying now. This is the kick up the arse that the club (both on and off the field) need, and a major wake up call as to what the Championship is all about.

 

But one thing still rings true from what i did say at the end of the game, and it appears some have beaten me to it. Marlon Pack.

 

An absolute waste of space, i have no idea what he has brought this club since he joined, yet some people see him as a Pirlo / Scholes-esque player. Laughable. A Cheltenham fan i know was happy to see the back of him when he left them to join us. We are in for a long hard season if he is going to be our first choice central midfielder all season. Smith was poor today but still had a bit of skill on the ball, a lot more movement and i think he was doing the job of 2 players in the midfield battle. The first player we should have bought in the summer was a central midfielder to replace Elliot, but we are where we are and we are only 3 points off top.

[Harry]

Poor game from our perspective. I don't think Sheff Wed will be a top side so to be beaten so comfortably was disappointing.

First half we did OK in possession but didn't really hurt them. They should have scored with two great chances.

Second half is when we started to fall apart. Most things came down the side that Bryan had vacated and was being filled by Fredericks. Worrying that Bryan might be out and that Fredericks looked so poor.

We looked solid from set pieces apart from the one that undid us. Very unlike us.

The only chance we had of note was Flint's header off the line and then they went and scored on the counter. Horrible mistake by Fielding - is he up to it at this level...question marks for me.

Burns did well and looked unlucky not to win a penalty late in the game. Freeman a good first half but then easily stopped in the 2nd - again a concern if teams work him out.

Derek Williams looked pretty poor today and not convinced if Pack can be a effective starter (his forward passing was very poor today). Korey, Flint and Ayling looked OK.

Upfront - passes through to Kodjia were poor and Wilbraham worked hard but didnt cause them many problems.

As has been said a million times, the squad is threadbare and even I would question if some of the first 11 are up to it let alone the subs.

It is hard not to be down after that but it is only one game and after last season, we know this group can come back and produce much better. We need a confidence booster at Luton and a player or two before Brentford home.

Alex. I pretty much agree with all of that apart from you saying Smith looked good? He was probably our poorest performer today with the exception of Williams.

Genuinely intrigued, but can you tell me what you saw in Korey's performance that I didn't?

[Alex_BCFC]

Alex. I pretty much agree with all of that apart from you saying Smith looked good? He was probably our poorest performer today with the exception of Williams.

Genuinely intrigued, but can you tell me what you saw in Korey's performance that I didn't?

Smith looked OK not good I put!

 

Won a fair bit things and distributed the ball OK. 

[City fan 1982]

Is pack the new lee Johnson ?

[Guest]

I thought Smith did okay.

He was constantly outnumbered in the middle and Ayling acting particularly cavalier was dragging him here there and everywhere.

His job made even harder with Bryan going and the understanding he and Williams have developed iro covering each other noticeably absent.

From the 40 minute mark he handled an impossible task well, I thought. Two new wing backs, both out of position... Don't think anyone would say that's a platform for a holding midfielder.

Edited August 8, 2015 by Guest

[Harry]

Smith looked OK not good I put!

Won a fair bit things and distributed the ball OK.

Yep. Fair do's. His short 5 yard passing was fine, but pretty much everything he attempted as a forward-attacking pass was terrible. He lost the ball very easily a few times and 1 where he gifted Lopez what should've been a goal. He wasn't as tenacious as usual and was sloppy in possession, I thought.

By contrast, Pack found his range of passing much better in the 2nd half and was involved in penetrating the opposition with a number of forward or cross-field passes.

Sadly though, because he got tackled once he'll be everyone's boo boy.

[tts_city]

any news on bryans injury ?

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

I would say the more worrying sign was Cotterills interview on C5... looked very down, comments about a terrible summer.. nowhere near signing new players.

 

Could be smoke and mirrors and we have a few lined up but not so sure.

[JoeAman08]

Yep. Fair do's. His short 5 yard passing was fine, but pretty much everything he attempted as a forward-attacking pass was terrible. He lost the ball very easily a few times and 1 where he gifted Lopez what should've been a goal. He wasn't as tenacious as usual and was sloppy in possession, I thought.

By contrast, Pack found his range of passing much better in the 2nd half and was involved in penetrating the opposition with a number of forward or cross-field passes.

Sadly though, because he got tackled once he'll be everyone's boo boy.

I thought Pack settled for sure and Korey I've never seen play as poorly. Usually no flash but solid and rarely giving up possession and winning it back. Just wasn't his normal performance but I'm sure it'll come in time.

I personally think we never play as well when Joe and Mark Little aren't our WBs. So Fredricks and anyone new will need a few matches to adjust(as it did Tavenier).

Any news on Joe?

[BobBobSuperBob]

Yep. Fair do's. His short 5 yard passing was fine, but pretty much everything he attempted as a forward-attacking pass was terrible. He lost the ball very easily a few times and 1 where he gifted Lopez what should've been a goal. He wasn't as tenacious as usual and was sloppy in possession, I thought.

By contrast, Pack found his range of passing much better in the 2nd half and was involved in penetrating the opposition with a number of forward or cross-field passes.

Sadly though, because he got tackled once he'll be everyone's boo boy.

Read my post #638 Harry please before you say another 'Sadly though, because he got tackled once he'll be everyone's boo boy'

Getting tiresome now tbh

[NorthernRobin]

Thought pack was poor today however some of the comments on here are ridiculous, he had a great season last season and doesn't deserve to be slaughtered after one bad game.

 

Would like to see a new exciting centre mid brought in though, someone who can take hold of the game and carry us in games like today where we struggled to sequence attacking moves.

[joe jordans teeth]

End of the day pack was awful which left smith so exposed,if pack can't pass 10 yards without giving it away then we are in trouble

[Chairman Mao]

we need a couple of midfielders and another defender, then I think we'll be fine

[YorkshireSection]

People may just be judging Pack on what they've seen of him , not just today but in his career to date , incl with us in L1 Harry

Just a point to ponder

Don't think people are judging him on today's performance alone and to infer so is naive

Biggest thing for me is zero pace over 5 or 20 yes and you have to be some player to be competitive in a midfield role in Champ to make it without it

I enjoy reading your posts but others are entitled to their opinions (There are a number who saw today's game who disagree with a number of your points) the same as you are to yours

Completely agree with pretty much everything you say there.

I don't think anyone with half a brain cell would write any of our players off yet but we do have the right to say it how we see it, no body is using any one as a scapegoat players like Pack will always get a Marmite reaction and ultimately divide opinion- surely someone whose so itk in the football world should know that.

Players need competition in Thi league, someone experienced in cm is desperately needed, Barton might have been a ridiculous suggestion but he'd certainly have added something today.

[Red Army 87]

Wow! I knew Pack was going to become a scapegoat for most people this season, in fact most had written him off before a ball was kicked, but my god, what a ridiculous overreaction to him today. Didn't think he'd be singled out quite this quickly.

All of the team were poor today if compared with the performances we know they are capable of. No one came out with any credit besides maybe (just) Flint.

Pack got tackled in his own half once in the first half and once in the second. He took a booking for the team rather than letting a man run free (just the same as Fredericks did, but he's not copped any flack for that), he made a couple of poor passes in the first half but spread the ball well in the second including a few passes threaded through to the strikers / wingbacks.

In comparison Korey Smith did pretty much f-all all game, apart from giving the ball away numerous times more than Pack did, including one where he gifted the ball to Lopez on the edge of the box which should have been a goal.

If you watched that game not having seen any of our team play before, you'd say Smith was our weakest midfielder.

I'm not saying he is, nor slagging him off, but he was much worse than Pack today, yet the scapegoat goes to Pack.

For what it's worth, I thought Fielding obviously made a cock-up, Bryan (whilst on) and Fredericks were completely ineffective wingbacks, Smith was terrible, Freeman disappeared second half, and the front 2, Wilb & Kodge were absolutely dire.

Williams was horrible defensively and had a mare against Wallace & Hunt, and Ayling got caught out a number of times down his side too, and susceptible to a ball over the top once or twice as well.

Pack, for me, was probably better than all bar Flint today. He made a couple of bad forward passes, and got tackled twice. Bloody hell. I can sense young Marlon being in a very long season with most of you lot. Ludicrous opinions (that's my opinion).

On first showing, our new signings will need some time to bed in. Kodjia looked very poor I have to say, and Fred looked scared. I'm willing to give them both time to settle in a new team and challenging league, but seems most of you lot have written off Pack on the back of a bad team performance in which he was nowhere near our worst midfielder, let alone worst player.

I was there today and couldn't agree with you more, spot on .

[YorkshireSection]

Read my post #638 Harry please before you say another 'Sadly though, because he got tackled once he'll be everyone's boo boy'

Getting tiresome now tbh

Amen Sir.

[One BCFC]

In a way we will learn more from this defeat than a win.

If we sneaked a win we would have papered over the cracks and forgotten some of the bad performances by some. The players will learn well from this defeat, mistakes at this level are punished.

[samo II]

I respect your posts on here tremendously, Harry, but poor form to just write off everyone who is critical of Pack as "boo boys"; several have articulated why they felt his contribution was part of a poor performance, so it strikes me as narrow minded to write this off so flippantly.

I'm by no means calling for his head, but felt his insistence on taking time on the ball when he had none and bad decisions outweighed his other contributions, such as his long passes.

That isn't to say others didn't perform well too, and Smith didn't cover himself with glory as you say, but deriding the observations of others as the words of "boo boys" is an unfortunate position to take.

[Red Army 87]

When we went 2-0 down I have to say pack was one of the few who tried to take responsibility by creating something. Some great passes over the top for Robinson near the end.

Not even close to being our worst player today, I wasn't impressed with kodjia or Fredericks and ayling, whilst excellent on the ball looked very exposed when defending, as did Williams. Flint was running from one side to the other just to cover them.

The consolation from today, for those of you that weren't there, is that we are capable of playing much better than that and it might give the players a bit of a reality check. I did feel first half that it felt a bit too relaxed from our perspective so when Wednesday picked up the pace we struggled to keep up.

[TRL]

I think Pack has had a bit of bad press on here.  He was probably our most involved player, so his bad points are going to be magnified, he wasn't that bad, he got through a lot of work and also made some good passes and good decisions.

 

I was more disappointed with Smith truth be told, lot of balls won then given away immediately, might as well not bothered winning the tackle.

 

Lots to learn I think from all in the team, last year we had time to win the tackle and watch the great ball we played. this year, we have to win the tackle, get head up quickly and make sure there is movement and good first touch, we will not get away with sloppiness in the championship

[Flagon]

I managed to catch most of the match on a live stream and the main thing I took from it was that Sheffield Wednesday just simply did a better job on us than them and we got badly disrupted following the injury to Bryan. Fredericks is not a left wing back, not that he did a terrible job there but it's obviously not what he was bought for.

They all looked comfortable on the ball which was good to see and I didn't feel that anyone had a shocker. Fielding didn't have a great deal to do. I saw us under alot more pressure in League One at times.

Sheffield Wednesday just did a good job holding back when we had the ball and exploited the gaps vacated by the wingbacks where most of the game we had a new player having to play the wrong side and the other side we had Burns who had hardly even played in league one, who I thought actually did really well and was quite a threat.I feel pretty sure this impacted our ability to create anything clear cut to the strikers where again one is completely new to the football over here let alone the team.

Sheffield Wednesday were similar I thought to Brighton and Forest last night where the main threat was down the wings which could be something we need to watch out for.

I am a bit concerned though by the injury to Bryan. Cunningham would no doubt have been there today so this did show up an early problem - not that anyone wouldn't have seen that coming - well I hope not anyhow! It'll be interesting to see what happens come the end of the month now. Who knows two quick fire results at home and maybe couple more signings and things will feel different very quickly. Can't wait now for first home game to give my full support followed by a nice tasty evening match against Leeds. Hopefully we will be really up for it on the pitch and in the stands.

[BobBobSuperBob]

Agree YS - a experienced central midfielder would be spot on and your point about Barton very valid

For what it's worth IMO there are one or two more who I have doubts about at Championship level and but I'll keep those to myself before WW3 breaks out

I hope I'm wrong on each of them incl MP and they all make me eat my words as All I want is for the team / club to be sucessful, but I'm not a rose tinted specs wearer either.

The players who did so well last year in a league below deserve an opportunity but too much or elongated sentiment will cost us points

The club cannot afford to mess up,in the Champ this time round - we have no excuses this time round - a title winning side that needed polishing with some additions and we had the chance to plan our transfer activity before Preston, MK and the relegated prem clubs

[samo II]

No idea how people can be critical of our front pair today; zero service, and us starting to go long to them as soon as Sheffield closed is down.

At least both Wilbs (who looked lethargic, but still fought for every ball) and Kodjia each did something when they did get the ball.

Thought Robinson added a threat too, drawing their wide men back and spreading their defence, and perhaps the idea of a front three SC mention on his signing is viable, as Robinson certainly has the ability to play in that gap between the full back and centre back, of more ably supported from midfield.

[YorkshireSection]

I think Pack has had a bit of bad press on here. He was probably our most involved player, so his bad points are going to be magnified, he wasn't that bad, he got through a lot of work and also made some good passes and good decisions.

I was more disappointed with Smith truth be told, lot of balls won then given away immediately, might as well not bothered winning the tackle.

Lots to learn I think from all in the team, last year we had time to win the tackle and watch the great ball we played. this year, we have to win the tackle, get head up quickly and make sure there is movement and good first touch, we will not get away with sloppiness in the championship

Agreed

As I said, his mistakes were magnified due to his position on the field etc. Everyone wants him to do well, were also very much allowed yo say when we don't think any player has, that's the beauty of a forum.

[Phileas Fogg]

Kodjia, as expected, showed all the hallmarks of a striker not quite sharp or in tune with the rest of the team yet - by that I mean his runs and touch which were poor. It'll come.

He barely touched the ball really but I was impressed with his angled shot that went over; the technique was good but more importantly the idea to have that shot in the first place.

Looking forward to watching him improve

Edited August 8, 2015 by Phileas Fogg

[YorkshireSection]

Agree YS - a experienced central midfielder would be spot on and your point about Barton very valid

For what it's worth IMO there are one or two more who I have doubts about at Championship level and but I'll keep those to myself before WW3 breaks out

I hope I'm wrong on each of them incl MP and they all make me eat my words as All I want is for the team / club to be sucessful, but I'm not a rose tinted specs wearer either.

The players who did so well last year in a league below deserve an opportunity but too much or elongated sentiment will cost us points

The club cannot afford to mess up,in the Champ this time round - we have no excuses this time round - a title winning side that needed polishing with some additions and we had the chance to plan our transfer activity before Preston, MK and the relegated prem clubs

Couldn't agree more, I also think there's a couple who may struggle and i hope I'm wrong, one things for sure though: If we dont get proper competition for their places then things will get a lot tougher, this league is a very different animal to league one.

Still, a bad start but plenty of time to do well.

[JoeAman08]

I just think our back 3 needs to be exactly that. A BACK 3. We are going to get punished if they keep going so far forward. Especially with inexperienced WBs. Only one I truly trust on the ball is Ayling. Even then he needs to get better defensively until they have that understanding with everyone again

[Cider_boy]

You don't get a point for losing 2-0

haahaa, too much cider earlier, I meant;

 

or it may turn out that we're one of few teams not to come away with at least a point from them.

 

 

although maybe teams that play at Ashton Gate should get a point for losing 2-0 away?

[chipdawg]

My thoughts on today

The first thing to say is that we have to hold our hands up and say Wednesday deserved to win that game. We can dissect the deficiencies of our squad all we want, but they deserved to win. That was certainly not the whole story though. As poor as we were in the 2nd half, we were the better side in the first- albeit a side that didn't create much in the way of chances. Second half they came out and pressured us and we didn't react well. That's perhaps the most concerning aspect of the afternoon: has this team which is so used to dominating got the balls to knuckle under and grind out draws against the run of play?

Individually, the obvious poor performers were the new lads; Kodjia especially looked completely lost and we have to just hope that with time he picks it up. For most of today he looked like the first time he'd met his team mates was kick off. Neither he nor Fredericks looked fit to me, so hopefully they'll improve

As for the Pack criticism, he didn't have a great game but he wasn't the only one. However, the midfield needs improving and in the respect he looks the odd one out. I'd also say Ayling looked suspect defensively but that's perhaps a whole different debate

Positives? Well we were the better team first 45. Nobody looks like they can't contribute and Burns might just have played his way into the side. A lot to ponder, a few things to worry about but no need to panic

COYR