Jeremy Corbyn

[BCFC Jimmer]

No actually you have contradicted yourself look up the word welfare in the dictionary and show me your definition? it is unacceptable to people who have worked all of their lives and were the first to be punished by the welfare cuts, the people about to reach old age pension age, as I explained earlier just like my missus who missed the cut by 6 weeks and her pension was pushed back 5 years and her pension forecast is barely what an asylum seeker is given weekly as spending money after their room, board and 3 square meals, it's welfare and not a life choice and that should always be the starting point. Just to be clear the asylum seeker is an analogy of payment not an example of life choice.

i'm with you on tax avoidance, I am just at a loss as to how any government would implement such policies, first you have to close all legal loopholes in the tax laws and then close the loopholes that arise from the new legislation and then actually prove your case beyond a reasonable doubt and then find the money and then make them pay.

Dude - I'm on your side. An acceptable situation for your wife.

But it isnt the fault of benefit cheats or refugees my friend. The government are comfortable with people thinking it is their fault because it takes the pressure off them!

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Dude - I'm on your side. An acceptable situation for your wife.

But it isnt the fault of benefit cheats or refugees my friend. The government are comfortable with people thinking it is their fault because it takes the pressure off them!

Why not for once read what people post?, I said when the benefits system needs over hauling start with the cheats and life choice brigade and not the disabled, that should ALWAYS be the starting point and I was at pains to to explain that my asylum seeker/refugee spending money was an analogy not a life choice.

 

[Moloch]

No actually you have contradicted yourself look up the word welfare in the dictionary and show me your definition? it is unacceptable to people who have worked all of their lives and were the first to be punished by the welfare cuts, the people about to reach old age pension age, as I explained earlier just like my missus who missed the cut by 6 weeks and her pension was pushed back 5 years and her pension forecast is barely what an asylum seeker is given weekly as spending money after their room, board and 3 square meals, it's welfare and not a life choice and that should always be the starting point. Just to be clear the asylum seeker is an analogy of payment not an example of life choice.

i'm with you on tax avoidance, I am just at a loss as to how any government would implement such policies, first you have to close all legal loopholes in the tax laws and then close the loopholes that arise from the new legislation and then actually prove your case beyond a reasonable doubt and then find the money and then make them pay.

https://www.gov.uk/asylum-support/what-youll-get

Asylum seekers get somewhere to live. This could be in a flat, house, hostel or bed and breakfast. They can’t choose where they live and are usually placed in "hard to let" properties. These are not paid for from council funds.

They get £36.95 per person per week to pay for things you need like food, clothing and toiletries. They don't get meals paid for, they must buy food out of the weekly payment.

They are not allowed to work.

I guess from your post that you wife was born in early 1953, and has been working all her life (say since 1974?) which would be 40ish years. Her state pension would be will be no less than £151.25 per week.

This is more than 4 times what the asylum seeker gets.

I'm not making a point as such, just putting some facts forward.

 

[BCFC Jimmer]

Why not for once read what people post?, I said when the benefits system needs over hauling start with the cheats and life choice brigade and not the disabled, that should ALWAYS be the starting point and I was at pains to to explain that my asylum seeker/refugee spending money was an analogy not a life choice.

 

Your posts are so often filled with innacuracies and even outright lies its no suprise I now miss things.

Im now completly confused by your political standing. You seem right wing - but you want a good welfare state that looks after the poor and needy - the very system that is under fire from the current right wing government.

You also still seem to think that asylum seekers coming to the UK is causing all our problems. Just not true.

 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Your posts are so often filled with innacuracies and even outright lies its no suprise I now miss things.

Im now completly confused by your political standing. You seem right wing - but you want a good welfare state that looks after the poor and needy - the very system that is under fire from the current right wing government.

You also still seem to think that asylum seekers coming to the UK is causing all our problems. Just not true.

 

You really are stupid sometimes, please don't call me liar 3 times recently you have misquoted me and twice had to apologise.

You have this real problem with having to put a label on everything, but probably for the umpteenth time i'll try maybe it will stick, I hate all political parties they are all useless and self serving, I admire just the odd politician, perhaps say Frank Field for instance and a few others.

As for your last sentence that just proves that you are the liar here, please show me one post to prove your point.

[...]

Your posts are so often filled with innacuracies and even outright lies its no suprise I now miss things.

Im now completly confused by your political standing. You seem right wing - but you want a good welfare state that looks after the poor and needy - the very system that is under fire from the current right wing government.

You also still seem to think that asylum seekers coming to the UK is causing all our problems. Just not true.

 

Are you the leader of the OTIB political correctness party?

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and it is pretty bad people think others are not entitled to an genuine opinion, because of constant pc nit-picking.

There is a finite amount of revenue available to the government, and that has to pay for the NHS, schools, fire brigade, etc, etc.

I do not care what you think, but that is all more important than subsidising a significant minority who breed VERY large families, cannot realistically support them, and EXPECT working class people to support them.

You could not do this in a small / individual society, as it is not sustainable, and people would quickly tell you what they thought. The fact these folk are dipping into the big pot we all should pay into is not acceptable.

I said above that people who are in hard times through no fault of their own deserve every penny, and more. If there were not so many undeserving spongers, we could do this.

Some people can't see the wood for the trees, however .....

 

Uncle 'I chip-in' TFR

[BCFC Jimmer]

Are you the leader of the OTIB political correctness party?

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and it is pretty bad people think others are not entitled to an genuine opinion, because of constant pc nit-picking.

There is a finite amount of revenue available to the government, and that has to pay for the NHS, schools, fire brigade, etc, etc.

I do not care what you think, but that is all more important than subsidising a significant minority who breed VERY large families, cannot realistically support them, and EXPECT working class people to support them.

You could not do this in a small / individual society, as it is not sustainable, and people would quickly tell you what they thought. The fact these folk are dipping into the big pot we all should pay into is not acceptable.

I said above that people who are in hard times through no fault of their own deserve every penny, and more. If there were not so many undeserving spongers, we could do this.

Some people can't see the wood for the trees, however .....

 

Uncle 'I chip-in' TFR

Whats it got to do with political correctness?!

Bloody hell, I am just giving you a few home truths.

 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Whats it got to do with political correctness?!

Bloody hell, I am just giving you a few home truths.

 

That's really funny.

 

[...]

Whats it got to do with political correctness?!

Bloody hell, I am just giving you a few home truths.

 

What I hate about this type of forum is Tony Blair can come on here, call himself Collis1, and he thinks people are not going to spot his ridiculous PC comments.

WE ARE NOT STUPID, Tony.

Me and EMB have sussed you out good and proper.

After what you did in Iraq / Libya, if you think this thread is going to save you .............

 

Uncle TFR

[...]

P.S. Someone give me 4 likes and I go above Tony on the 'green score'. Cheers.

[BCFC Jimmer]

What I hate about this type of forum is Tony Blair can come on here, call himself Collis1, and he thinks people are not going to spot his ridiculous PC comments.

WE ARE NOT STUPID, Tony.

Me and EMB have sussed you out good and proper.

After what you did in Iraq / Libya, if you think this thread is going to save you .............

 

Uncle TFR

What ridiculous PC comments have I made? I have stated facts, whilst you have posted a load of guff. 

One post in particular that suggests problems in this country comes from benefit cheats = moronic.

 

 

 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

What ridiculous PC comments have I made? I have stated facts, whilst you have posted a load of guff. 

One post in particular that suggests problems in this country comes from benefit cheats = moronic.

 

 

 

You constantly try to smear people, pin labels on them, totally misrepresent people and make stuff up that you claim people are saying and people are getting wise to you.

[BCFC Jimmer]

You constantly try to smear people, pin labels on them, totally misrepresent people and make stuff up that you claim people are saying and people are getting wise to you.

Cobblers! If I am not allowed to attack some of the often outragously innacurate or bigoted posts on here then I think its actually you guys who are doing the smearing.

I think its more likely that you are getting annoyed because i and others have often been able to disprove right wing views and media led bullshit that some of you seem to have fallen for left right and centre.

WWhenever i have posted coherent posts outlining how we can improve the economy by not vilifying immigrants and the poor surprisingly none of you listen or reply!

I wonder why that is....

 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Cobblers! If I am not allowed to attack some of the often outragously innacurate or bigoted posts on here then I think its actually you guys who are doing the smearing.

I think its more likely that you are getting annoyed because i and others have often been able to disprove right wing views and media led bullshit that some of you seem to have fallen for left right and centre.

 

Really?, why haven't you answered post 545 then, the last sentence especially was an unmitigated, unsubstantiated smear.

 

 

[BCFC Jimmer]

Really?, why haven't you answered post 545 then, the last sentence especially was an unmitigated, unsubstantiated smear.

 

 

I dont really have time to read previous posts I am afraid. There are probably parts where i have got confused between various posters.

If i had a spare hour I could probably find 50 posts where certain posters have made incorrect sweeping generlisations.

For example, if you have a sound understanding of the economy it does seem frankly ridiculous to be banging on about benefit cheats.

 

 

 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

I dont really have time to read previous posts I am afraid. There are probably parts where i have got confused between various posters.

If i had a spare hour I could probably find 50 posts where certain posters have made incorrect sweeping generlisations.

For example, if you have a sound understanding of the economy it does seem frankly ridiculous to be banging on about benefit cheats.

 

 

 

Confused certainly sums you up, just find a spare 5 minutes to justify your comment, because it is a bare faced lie.

Your last sentence is frankly pathetic and ignorant and yet another one of your lies, I said any benefits overhaul should always begin with the benefits cheats and certainly not the disabled, which is what has happened.

Your problem is you do not read posts properly and then try to invent a sub text from what you believe you have read and then pin a label on it, because of course it must have a label.

[Red-Robbo]

What I hate about this type of forum is Tony Blair can come on here, call himself Collis1, and he thinks people are not going to spot his ridiculous PC comments.

WE ARE NOT STUPID, Tony.

Me and EMB have sussed you out good and proper.

After what you did in Iraq / Libya, if you think this thread is going to save you .............

 

Uncle TFR

The Libyan air strikes happened on Cameron's watch - three years after Blair was in power.

Surprised Es didn't pick that major inaccuracy up ;-)

I have no intention to join in this thread which  has degenerated into a pointless argument,  but I'm interested in the use of the language used to castigate Collis1.

Not clear how espousing the views of a mainstream,  fairly orthodox left-wing political party makes you "politically correct".

That would mean the elected right-wing mainstream patty, representing the views of most members of the establishment and the vested interests of international capitalism is de facto "incorrect". 

Seems to me that PC is nowadays just used as a lazy pejorative shorthand by conservatives (of all ilks) for people they disagree with.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

The Libyan air strikes happened on Cameron's watch - three years after Blair was in power.

Surprised Es didn't pick that major inaccuracy up ;-)

I have no intention to join in this thread which  has degenerated into a pointless argument,  but I'm interested in the use of the language used to castigate Collis1.

Not clear how espousing the views of a mainstream,  fairly orthodox left-wing political party makes you "politically correct".

That would mean the elected right-wing mainstream patty, representing the views of most members of the establishment and the vested interests of international capitalism is de facto "incorrect". 

Seems to me that PC is nowadays just used as a lazy pejorative shorthand by conservatives (of all ilks) for people they disagree with.

in my case it's because he is just making shit up, when i'm wrong i'm wrong and will admit as much in the same way that you do, but I refuse sit on my hands when he tries to push a downright lie about my views on refugees/asylum seekers and one you can see from his lack of action he cannot substantiate because it's untrue, he then further tried to espouse another lie about my views on benefits cheats, i'm sorry RR he is making shit up and he is obsessed with everyone having a label, if you don't vote labour then your'e a tory, if you have different view to him on benefits and refugees then you must be some sort of racist, the other week he had a snide go at Aizoon over a comment that to everybody else on this forum could see was obviously a joke and Aizoon as I pointed out was a labour supporter and finally may I suggest that he obviously doesn't read any of uncle TFR's posts.

[The Gasbuster]

What ridiculous PC comments have I made? I have stated facts, whilst you have posted a load of guff. 

One post in particular that suggests problems in this country comes from benefit cheats = moronic.

 

 

 

That is his opinion, no justification to refer to him as "moronic", because it differs to yours.

[The Gasbuster]

Your posts are so often filled with innacuracies and even outright lies its no suprise I now miss things.

Im now completly confused by your political standing. You seem right wing - but you want a good welfare state that looks after the poor and needy - the very system that is under fire from the current right wing government.

You also still seem to think that asylum seekers coming to the UK is causing all our problems. Just not true.

 

ALL our problems - definitely not.

SOME of our problems, then yes, I would say so.

[Red-Robbo]

in my case it's because he is just making shit up, when i'm wrong i'm wrong and will admit as much in the same way that you do, but I refuse sit on my hands when he tries to push a downright lie about my views on refugees/asylum seekers and one you can see from his lack of action he cannot substantiate because it's untrue, he then further tried to espouse another lie about my views on benefits cheats, i'm sorry RR he is making shit up and he is obsessed with everyone having a label, if you don't vote labour then your'e a tory, if you have different view to him on benefits and refugees then you must be some sort of racist, the other week he had a snide go at Aizoon over a comment that to everybody else on this forum could see was obviously a joke and Aizoon as I pointed out was a labour supporter and finally may I suggest that he obviously doesn't read any of uncle TFR's posts.

OK, you have a different beef with the guy, but I'm not sure that calling someone "PC" as TFR did is either sensible or appropriate in this case.PC means a very specific thing, not a catch-all term for anyone further to the political left from oneself.

As you say labels are not usually a good idea. I'm to the "left" of many on some issues, to the "right" on others. The guys in my office, who regard me as some sort of Sir Bufton Tufton ageing reactionary, would be pissing themselves to know that Otib seems to think of me as Dave Spart - general secretary of the amalgamated union of sixth-form operatives.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

OK, you have a different beef with the guy, but I'm not sure that calling someone "PC" as TFR did is either sensible or appropriate in this case.PC means a very specific thing, not a catch-all term for anyone further to the political left from oneself.

As you say labels are not usually a good idea. I'm to the "left" of many on some issues, to the "right" on others. The guys in my office, who regard me as some sort of Sir Bufton Tufton ageing reactionary, would be pissing themselves to know that Otib seems to think of me as Dave Spart - general secretary of the amalgamated union of sixth-form operatives.

Me too, but I wouldn't piss on too many politicians if they were on fire and as all but especially labour are proving the standards for becoming an MP and remaining one are obviously slipping daily.

PS:- This is TFR we are talking about and we all know he likes his wind up's, but calling somebody moronic doesn't add much to the debate either.

 

[...]

OK, you have a different beef with the guy, but I'm not sure that calling someone "PC" as TFR did is either sensible or appropriate in this case.PC means a very specific thing, not a catch-all term for anyone further to the political left from oneself.

As you say labels are not usually a good idea. I'm to the "left" of many on some issues, to the "right" on others. The guys in my office, who regard me as some sort of Sir Bufton Tufton ageing reactionary, would be pissing themselves to know that Otib seems to think of me as Dave Spart - general secretary of the amalgamated union of sixth-form operatives.

It's 'Uncle' TFR, to you.

If you think Tony Blair, coming on here, giving it 'all that', and calling himself Collis1 is acceptable, then that is proof with live in a PC society.

A properly functioning society is one where everyone who is able chips in for the greater good.

Only in this way are we able to properly look after the weak and vulnerable.

MY issue is way, way to much money being delivered to folk who could chip-in, but don't, thereby taking money away from those in genuine need.

The extent of this issue? No-one knows, but does it happen? I know people that take money from the Government (aka you and me), simply because they can. After decades, people think this is normal and OK.

It is not.

"Balls to political correctness".

 

UNCLE TFR

 

[chipdawg]

It's 'Uncle' TFR, to you.

If you think Tony Blair, coming on here, giving it 'all that', and calling himself Collis1 is acceptable, then that is proof with live in a PC society.

A properly functioning society is one where everyone who is able chips in for the greater good.

Only in this way are we able to properly look after the weak and vulnerable.

MY issue is way, way to much money being delivered to folk who could chip-in, but don't, thereby taking money away from those in genuine need.

The extent of this issue? No-one knows, but does it happen? I know people that take money from the Government (aka you and me), simply because they can. After decades, people think this is normal and OK.

It is not.

"Balls to political correctness".

 

UNCLE TFR

 

I agree Uncle! People like Amazon, Starbucks, Google, Vodafone. If all of them chipped in their 'fair share' we'd be much better off!

[...]

I agree Uncle! People like Amazon, Starbucks, Google, Vodafone. If all of them chipped in their 'fair share' we'd be much better off!

........ I have, today, written to George Osborne suggesting a tax on lesbian single mothers (with one leg).

We await the autumn statement, brother.

 

Uncle TFR

[chipdawg]

........ I have, today, written to George Osborne suggesting a tax on lesbian single mothers (with one leg).

We await the autumn statement, brother.

 

Uncle TFR

They are indeed the most greedy and selfish sector of modern society

[Esmond Million's Bung]

I agree Uncle! People like Amazon, Starbucks, Google, Vodafone. If all of them chipped in their 'fair share' we'd be much better off!

I couldn't agree more, the question is how do you impose laws that enforce them to pay their fair share?, it's just like the silly argument about taxing the rich, how do you enforce it?.

[chipdawg]

I couldn't agree more, the question is how do you impose laws that enforce them to pay their fair share?, it's just like the silly argument about taxing the rich, how do you enforce it?.

A tough question indeed. There would have to be a will in parliament to close as many loopholes as possible. Obviously that won't happen as the majority of our MPs would probably stand to lose money through such legislation

However, is saying "what's the point, they'll only ignore/circumvent the rules" a reason to not try and implement fairer rules?

[Esmond Million's Bung]

A tough question indeed. There would have to be a will in parliament to close as many loopholes as possible. Obviously that won't happen as the majority of our MPs would probably stand to lose money through such legislation

However, is saying "what's the point, they'll only ignore/circumvent the rules" a reason to not try and implement fairer rules?

The point is talk is cheap everybody knows it's wrong, too many people think that to impose a change in the tax laws will simply have the desired effect and it won't, the companies really competent and expensive lawyers will tie the governments expensive but incompetent lawyers in knots.

it's an easy and cheap promise to make, so why don't all parties especially the opposition parties man up and say "look we will not promise anything but will see what can be done, but the chances of success are slim to none".

The same with taxing the rich, so lets assume that Corbyn gets elected, who will pay for his all of his laudable plans?. it's another cheap promise to get people excited but one that nobody can deliver and it won't work.

 

 

[BCFC Jimmer]

It's 'Uncle' TFR, to you.

If you think Tony Blair, coming on here, giving it 'all that', and calling himself Collis1 is acceptable, then that is proof with live in a PC society.

 

What on earth are you talking about?