Jeremy Corbyn

[joe jordans teeth]

 They are both in laa laa land

[screech]

I'm not sure why Corbyn is being slated for not backing military action over Syria, you'd have to be a complete idiot to think that it's a good idea to get involved in that mess.

Everybody is currently over there dropping bombs on targets, nobody knows who is being bombed, who side they are on this week, who's enemy is more dangerous than the other groups, who's selling the arms, who's buying the oil, how many are extremists, how many aren't, where are they based. Too many things going on in that region and there is no way there is a good group amongst them. Where do you drop a bomb in Raqqa or Mosul, how many innocents are going to be killed when they strike a school, a hospital.

Bombing Iraq was a piece of cake compared to this, Iraq had a visible enemy you could target, stay out of this as George Galloway said about a year ago, it's not our battle.

 

[Portland Bill]

At the moment ,Russia     ,France,USA,Australia,Canada,Bahrain,Jordan,Quater,Saudi Arabia,Turkey and the UAE are bombing Syria.

Russia are bombing groups that the UK are backing, groups that WE have armed and are arming. Russia are doing there utmost to help Assad, while most others want to help get rid of Assad.

Its a big big mess. How many on here have been blaming Blair for the Iraq debacle? how many of these same people are now saying we should basically do the same as he did?

The only way to get ISIS out of Syria and Iraq is to have a worldwide UN backed army that  could possibly flush them away. But even then, how will you distinguish between ISIS fighters and innocent people.

Those that want us to bomb Syria, please explain what the end game will be.

 

 

[Portland Bill]

9 hours ago, joe jordans teeth said:

 They are both in laa laa land

Joe, please explain to us what your solution to the problem would be.

[JM91]

On 26/11/2015, 18:02:48, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Yep and still droning on about the legality of the drone strike that killed Jihadi John, not sure about shoot to kill during an ongoing terrorist atrocity and surrounded himself with ex cons and a nutter who wants to be chancellor of the exchequer and is photographed with a document that he hasn't read but has signed and quotes from the book of the worst mass murderer in world history, has recently taken on somebody who was immediately suspended from the labour party for encouraging voters during the general election to vote for the class war candidate instead of the labour candidate the grand daughter of Tony Benn but he has Corbyn's full support and is talking about giving a role to some woman who is currently suspended from the labour party for her part in the Falkirk by election fraud and if that wasn't bad enough gave a role to a yesterdays man who immediately insults a 'colleagues' mental illness and then offers the worst apology in the history of apologies.

The difference between us I distrust them all and will come out and say as much, you are just a labour party sheep that bleats when something good occurs and then fluffs up your fleece to to cover your eyes and ears when the embarrassing shit like the 10 days happen, try a little balance and when you hear or see something baaaahd your shepherd or his flock do or say, come out like a man and say so and not just ignore it, that frankly is sheepish.

Nearly forgot, you're welcome Baaaaazil.

This is spot on.

Unfortunately the reason we do not have the level of Government accountability that we should have in this country is because of how tribal politics in Britain is. (I would blame labour for trying to tell people that "if you're working class vote labour", while I'm sure the lefties would blame the Conservatives).  Ultmately the Conservatives are only held accountable by staunch Labour voters and vice versa, but from the parties' perspective, who cares?  these people will never vote for them anyway. 

We need more undecided voters for a real level of Government accountability,  a "principle" that isn't supported by any of the major parties.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

9 hours ago, screech said:

I'm not sure why Corbyn is being slated for not backing military action over Syria, you'd have to be a complete idiot to think that it's a good idea to get involved in that mess.

Everybody is currently over there dropping bombs on targets, nobody knows who is being bombed, who side they are on this week, who's enemy is more dangerous than the other groups, who's selling the arms, who's buying the oil, how many are extremists, how many aren't, where are they based. Too many things going on in that region and there is no way there is a good group amongst them. Where do you drop a bomb in Raqqa or Mosul, how many innocents are going to be killed when they strike a school, a hospital.

Bombing Iraq was a piece of cake compared to this, Iraq had a visible enemy you could target, stay out of this as George Galloway said about a year ago, it's not our battle.

 

Screech it's the way that he is going about it, he reads a prepared statement to his shadow cabinet, he doesn't tell them about the letter to MP's or the email to labour party members, he is basically riding rough shot over them and that is not a way to run a so called credible opposition and MP's are being threatened and vilified online by his bully boys. I think some of his dregs of the party believe they are back in Stalinist Russia or more lately Mao's China.

Bearing in mind that labour party membership stands at about 400,000 and also bearing in mind quite a few of the new members signed up for a laugh and yes they overwhelmingly support his view but sadly for him 44% of 9.3 million who voted labour in May and most of his shadow cabinet do not agree with him, that is a lot of 'complete idiots' to add to overall 58% of 'complete idiots' of are in favour of bombing Syria and he is going to need the 44% of the labour voters and a substantial amount of the other voters to win an election in 2020.

and Screech, Galloway was correct then and is now about any war on the ground, air support is a different matter IMO, but for any ground offensive you will need Russian influence in the area, whether we like it or not, something that Turkey oddly forgot in it's downing of the Russian bomber, I for one do not trust the Turkish president at all, the timing of the downing of the Russian bomber was bizarre at best and certainly questionable, why would Turkey even consider a 17 second intrusion of it's airspace a threat?, that is of course if that actually happened.

Nobody can deny Corbyn's lifelong held views on wars etc.but he is clearly out of his depth leading the main opposition party.

 

[Portland Bill]

1 hour ago, JM91 said:

This is spot on.

Unfortunately the reason we do not have the level of Government accountability that we should have in this country is because of how tribal politics in Britain is. (I would blame labour for trying to tell people that "if you're working class vote labour", while I'm sure the lefties would blame the Conservatives).  Ultmately the Conservatives are only held accountable by staunch Labour voters and vice versa, but from the parties' perspective, who cares?  these people will never vote for them anyway. 

We need more undecided voters for a real level of Government accountability,  a "principle" that isn't supported by any of the major parties.

15 million people didn't vote at the last election, (could these be the 'undecided'?) they couldn't be bothered or didn't have anyone who reflected their view at the GE. I wonder how many of these 15 million want us to bomb Syria.

 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

2 hours ago, Portland Bill said:

15 million people didn't vote at the last election, (could these be the 'undecided'?) they couldn't be bothered or didn't have anyone who reflected their view at the GE. I wonder how many of these 15 million want us to bomb Syria.

 

I wonder how many of them support Chelsea or Manu?.

Maybe it's shit like this that is the real problem Bill?. Britain is a dangerous enough place as it stands but obviously not dangerous enough for some people.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/622567/Eu-Labour-let-jihadists-back-to-UK-racist-not-to

[Portland Bill]

3 hours ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

I wonder how many of them support Chelsea or Manu?.

Maybe it's shit like this that is the real problem Bill?. Britain is a dangerous enough place as it stands but obviously not dangerous enough for some people.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/622567/Eu-Labour-let-jihadists-back-to-UK-racist-not-to

E's sorry to disappoint you. But I'm not even going to open that link, the Daily Express isn't worthy of my eyes. Xenophobic rag.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

19 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

E's sorry to disappoint you. But I'm not even going to open that link, the Daily Express isn't worthy of my eyes. Xenophobic rag.

Well i'm sorry for you Bill and your response says everything about the labour supporters on this forum, ignore the bad stuff "la, la, la, la, la, I can't hear you i've got my hands over my ears" and debate nothing just throw in soundbytes and run away.

The piece was about a recent EU parliament vote encompassing the human rights and schengen, but obviously not important ok that's fine Bill, maybe you'll get the message when the UK has a Paris style terrorist attack, but you know best i'm sure.

 

[Portland Bill]

1 hour ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Well i'm sorry for you Bill and your response says everything about the labour supporters on this forum, ignore the bad stuff "la, la, la, la, la, I can't hear you i've got my hands over my ears" and debate nothing just throw in soundbytes and run away.

The piece was about a recent EU parliament vote encompassing the human rights and schengen, but obviously not important ok that's fine Bill, maybe you'll get the message when the UK has a Paris style terrorist attack, but you know best i'm sure.

 

I don't believe anything in these "papers", most stuff that's printed are lies, untruths or slanted in the way the xenophobic owner of the express wants it to be.

Im not interested in what they want to tell me/us, it would be like you reading the Mirror!!!

 

[screech]

7 hours ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Screech it's the way that he is going about it, he reads a prepared statement to his shadow cabinet, he doesn't tell them about the letter to MP's or the email to labour party members, he is basically riding rough shot over them and that is not a way to run a so called credible opposition and MP's are being threatened and vilified online by his bully boys. I think some of his dregs of the party believe they are back in Stalinist Russia or more lately Mao's China.

Bearing in mind that labour party membership stands at about 400,000 and also bearing in mind quite a few of the new members signed up for a laugh and yes they overwhelmingly support his view but sadly for him 44% of 9.3 million who voted labour in May and most of his shadow cabinet do not agree with him, that is a lot of 'complete idiots' to add to overall 58% of 'complete idiots' of are in favour of bombing Syria and he is going to need the 44% of the labour voters and a substantial amount of the other voters to win an election in 2020.

and Screech, Galloway was correct then and is now about any war on the ground, air support is a different matter IMO, but for any ground offensive you will need Russian influence in the area, whether we like it or not, something that Turkey oddly forgot in it's downing of the Russian bomber, I for one do not trust the Turkish president at all, the timing of the downing of the Russian bomber was bizarre at best and certainly questionable, why would Turkey even consider a 17 second intrusion of it's airspace a threat?, that is of course if that actually happened.

Nobody can deny Corbyn's lifelong held views on wars etc.but he is clearly out of his depth leading the main opposition party.

To be honest, I try not to get carried away with the falling outs behind the scenes, I believe that the Labour party needs to move away from it's Tory lite MP's so that there is a proper alternative to the Tories at Westminster. Corbyn sits well with people like me because there is clear daylight between the two, I'm hoping they eventually throw out the likes of Kendall who is never in a million years a Labour MP. Disagreements on policy is a democratic right is it not, he's backed down from his view over Trident, hardly a Chairman Mao is he.

At the end of the day you wont be voting for Labour because you don't share any of it's views, as a previous non voter but an old Labour voter, his views fall somewhere in line with people like myself. I'm glad there is someone who actually has principles and is not afraid to speak out about them.

This Labour shadow cabinet may not be everyones cup of tea and it aint perfect, but I'll take it over this current lot in government, and by the skin of our teeth have just backed away from suicidal cuts for now and who incidentally have their own bullying problems.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

1 minute ago, Portland Bill said:

I don't believe anything in these "papers", most stuff that's printed are lies, untruths or slanted in the way the xenophobic owner of the express wants it to be.

Im not interested in what they want to tell me/us, it would be like you reading the Mirror!!!

You see Bill again unlike you and your labour supporting mates on this forum I read them all, in fact I have just read the Mirror and found probably the best headline in a long time "Should we bomb Syria? Captain Hindsight will prove we were wrong, whatever we choose to do", I have an open mind you just follow the others just like sheep and hold the trendy view about certain newspapers, me just like politics I think they are all shit but I also hold the view that when you are right you are right (you should try it Bill).

I would have far more respect for you and other labour supporters on this forum (Screech excepted) if you were a little more balanced but your not balanced Bill, you're just like sheep who bleat about the occasional little victory and then hide in the pen when the shit hits the fan, in short you support labour like you do BCFC.

But hey ho Bill it's really not important about radicalised jihadist's returning to the UK protected by the EU and the human rights act, just ask Parisians Bill, but you know best.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

7 minutes ago, screech said:

To be honest, I try not to get carried away with the falling outs behind the scenes, I believe that the Labour party needs to move away from it's Tory lite MP's so that there is a proper alternative to the Tories at Westminster. Corbyn sits well with people like me because there is clear daylight between the two, I'm hoping they eventually throw out the likes of Kendall who is never in a million years a Labour MP. Disagreements on policy is a democratic right is it not, he's backed down from his view over Trident, hardly a Chairman Mao is he.

At the end of the day you wont be voting for Labour because you don't share any of it's views, as a previous non voter but an old Labour voter, his views fall somewhere in line with people like myself. I'm glad there is someone who actually has principles and is not afraid to speak out about them.

This Labour shadow cabinet may not be everyones cup of tea and it aint perfect, but I'll take it over this current lot in government, and by the skin of our teeth have just backed away from suicidal cuts for now and who incidentally have their own bullying problems.

I have total respect for you Screech because at least you are a realist and your support for labour is on an idealistic level (the difference in ideology between the 2 main parties) and that is fine, at least you have the guts to see the bad things and comment on them, that's called debate and I appreciate it. I think you are also real enough to believe that under Corbyn labour will probably be unelectable but at least there is a clear choice for you.

As for the bullying the tories have a far bigger problem because some poor young man took his life because of it and then in their total arrogance they denied everything and started deleting emails and closed their evil tory ranks, they have set up bullshit whitewash enquiry and I hope that people will not allow them to get away with, this needs to an independent enquiry and far more heads should role over this, it's disgusting.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

3 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

I have total respect for you Screech because at least you are a realist and your support for labour is on an idealistic level (the difference in ideology between the 2 main parties) and that is fine, at least you have the guts to see the bad things and comment on them, that's called debate and I appreciate it. I think you are also real enough to believe that under Corbyn labour will probably be unelectable but at least there is a clear choice for you.

As for the bullying the tories have a far bigger problem because some poor young man took his life because of it and then in their total arrogance they denied everything and started deleting emails and closed their evil tory ranks, they have set up bullshit whitewash enquiry and I hope that people will not allow them to get away with, this needs to an independent enquiry and far more heads should role over this, it's disgusting.

Screech I just want to add, I and many other people who are disgruntled with our political elite who are still ripping us off at every opportunity and getting away with it (just look at the way the Timothy Yeo affair was dealt with by his peers in parliament and then overturned by a high court judge yesterday, when the arrogant ***** tried to sue the Sunday Times, hopefully a perjury charge is around the corner) Anyway people like me are looking for that alternative a reason to vote for something different but sadly it's not Corbyn for me and frankly never will be, I will never feel safe.

[screech]

1 minute ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

I have total respect for you Screech because at least you are a realist and your support for labour is on an idealistic level (the difference in ideology between the 2 main parties) and that is fine, at least you have the guts to see the bad things and comment on them, that's called debate and I appreciate it. I think you are also real enough to believe that under Corbyn labour will probably be unelectable but at least there is a clear choice for you.

As for the bullying the tories have a far bigger problem because some poor young man took his life because of it and then in their total arrogance they denied everything and started deleting emails and closed their evil tory ranks, they have set up bullshit whitewash enquiry and I hope that people will not allow them to get away with, this needs to an independent enquiry and far more heads should role over this, it's disgusting.

Pretty much got me spot on there EMB. I don't believe for one minute a Corbyn led Labour can win an election, but the choice is there for people if they so wish.

The Tories will always fair much better in a modern world, they take the no bullshit approach to world economics, it's a winner which Labour will never touch with a barge pole, I'm an environmentalist dreamer, Corbyns views are better served from the back benches for an electedable Labour party, they will eventually get rid and bring out the next watered down Tory to have another run at getting elected, so at the moment I'm loving the fact they've released his views into mainstream politics, he's never going to say the right thing for todays public, it's rightfully a return to a bygone era, shame

[Esmond Million's Bung]

3 minutes ago, screech said:

Pretty much got me spot on there EMB. I don't believe for one minute a Corbyn led Labour can win an election, but the choice is there for people if they so wish.

The Tories will always fair much better in a modern world, they take the no bullshit approach to world economics, it's a winner which Labour will never touch with a barge pole, I'm an environmentalist dreamer, Corbyns views are better served from the back benches for an electedable Labour party, they will eventually get rid and bring out the next watered down Tory to have another run at getting elected, so at the moment I'm loving the fact they've released his views into mainstream politics, he's never going to say the right thing for todays public, it's rightfully a return to a bygone era, shame

it's nice to debate with somebody who isn't another sheep in the flock, the people who only really hate the tories and nothing else, there is no debate with most labour supporters on here.

Me I just want to see justice when it's needed, I hate seeing people get away with anything that they have done or said, most politicians are moral cowards who have little or no conscience or conviction, you mentioned Liz Kendall and I offer you 'any way the wind blows Andy Burnham', most are self serving there will be many on the labour benches voting to stay as a labour MP rather than with their conscience over the bombing of Syria and too be fair the tories who abstain or vote against are the braver IMO, that is why they were elected to vote with honesty and integrity, that is the cornerstone of democracy.

[Portland Bill]

43 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

You see Bill again unlike you and your labour supporting mates on this forum I read them all, in fact I have just read the Mirror and found probably the best headline in a long time "Should we bomb Syria? Captain Hindsight will prove we were wrong, whatever we choose to do", I have an open mind you just follow the others just like sheep and hold the trendy view about certain newspapers, me just like politics I think they are all shit but I also hold the view that when you are right you are right (you should try it Bill).

I would have far more respect for you and other labour supporters on this forum (Screech excepted) if you were a little more balanced but your not balanced Bill, you're just like sheep who bleat about the occasional little victory and then hide in the pen when the shit hits the fan, in short you support labour like you do BCFC.

But hey ho Bill it's really not important about radicalised jihadist's returning to the UK protected by the EU and the human rights act, just ask Parisians Bill, but you know best.

As I've already said E's, I don't believe one word written in that 'paper'. The whole story is probably a totally fabricated load of shite. I've seen it time and time again over the years, eventually they get caught out and publish a tiny apology at the bottom of page 28. 

Your welcome to read and believe the papers if you wish, but I'm not the gullible type. I much prefer to read my news from various sources on the net, and from the countless news channels that I believe are telling me the truth.

As for following Labour like a sheep, haha, yes I'm left of centre and don't try and hide it.

Unlike others who are right of centre and do

[Esmond Million's Bung]

15 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

As I've already said E's, I don't believe one word written in that 'paper'. The whole story is probably a totally fabricated load of shite. I've seen it time and time again over the years, eventually they get caught out and publish a tiny apology at the bottom of page 28. 

Your welcome to read and believe the papers if you wish, but I'm the the gullible type. I much prefer to read my news from various sources on the net, and from the countless news channels that I believe are telling me the truth.

As for following Labour like a sheep, haha, yes I'm left of centre and don't try and hide it.

Unlike others who are right of centre and do

Bill why do you enter into debates about politics, when you only ever see it totally from one side, you have never once criticised anything with reference to labour post Tony Blair?. I can only assume that they are perfect?.

You then defend yourself against me with the pathetic accusation like Collis that if I don't support labour I must be a tory, try a little balance Bill like I do.

For the record i'm a republican with a republican view on justice, which is why I chose France as my destination when I decided to move and even deeply despised piss weak socialists like Hollande knows about justice when it's needed, even though it was sadly 10 months too late in his case.

 

[Portland Bill]

2 hours ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Bill why do you enter into debates about politics, when you only ever see it totally from one side, you have never once criticised anything with reference to labour post Tony Blair?. I can only assume that they are perfect?.

You then defend yourself against me with the pathetic accusation like Collis that if I don't support labour I must be a tory, try a little balance Bill like I do.

For the record i'm a republican with a republican view on justice, which is why I chose France as my destination when I decided to move and even deeply despised piss weak socialists like Hollande knows about justice when it's needed, even though it was sadly 10 months too late in his case.

 

You take everything 'far' to seriously for someone who doesn't like any politicians at all!

As for me and my politics, there are lots of things Labour have done that I've disagreed with, you may well remember I quit the party   2 years ago over Labour's stance on workfare. 

There are plenty of tories on this and other threads that spout rubbish and are 100% anti Corbyn and anti Labour, 100% of the time.

Perhaps you need to show the same contempt to them and their views as you do continuesly to anyone who dares to side with Labour views!!

 

 

[Red-Robbo]

On 27/11/2015, 19:38:19, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Robbo one day, you will actually amaze me and criticise some of the crap that has and is occurring in the labour party instead of ignoring it, that's why I don't offer a blistering critique on the tories because the overt labour supporters on here only crow about good stuff and then ignore the mountain of bad stuff.

and for the record I have actually criticised the tories quite a bit in this and other threads, and you........................................................................ have criticised the tories.

But in the interests of balance I see another tory is heading for the big house on yet again another perjury charge, when will they learn eh?.

Scroll back to the start of this thread and you'll see why I think the duo of Corbyn and McDonnell are an electoral liability for Labour.

Now, about that thread you're going to start about bullying and sexual harassment in the Tory party............

[Esmond Million's Bung]

1 hour ago, Red-Robbo said:

Scroll back to the start of this thread and you'll see why I think the duo of Corbyn and McDonnell are an electoral liability for Labour.

Now, about that thread you're going to start about bullying and sexual harassment in the Tory party............

Might be a good idea to take your own advice and scroll back and see my replies to Screech and quite a few others on this thread about the tories and especially the bullying scandal, because it's one of the things in life I totally abhor from anybody.

As for your first sentence Robbo, that is pretty much a fact and not a criticism, but I suppose it's a start.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

13 hours ago, Portland Bill said:

You take everything 'far' to seriously for someone who doesn't like any politicians at all!

As for me and my politics, there are lots of things Labour have done that I've disagreed with, you may well remember I quit the party   2 years ago over Labour's stance on workfare. 

There are plenty of tories on this and other threads that spout rubbish and are 100% anti Corbyn and anti Labour, 100% of the time.

Perhaps you need to show the same contempt to them and their views as you do continuesly to anyone who dares to side with Labour views!!

 

 

Bill I haven't seen any evidence of that, you never comment or question when something is going wrong with the labour party not once, that's not balance, I see the bad and wrong in all of them and am prepared to say so and also as I will keep on saying 'when you're right you're right' and that goes for any of them, I have never in my life understood the blind following of one party, IMO that is how any governing party is allowed to get away with it's particular excesses.

As for the first sentence, I live in hope that one day we will see a proper 'democratic', honest government fully prepared to carry the the will of the people and ignore self interests and party politics and i'm sorry Bill I do not see that from any of the the political parties that in the main occupy the 650 seats in parliament, I don't see democracy from the 650 people voting in a dishonest way and an unelected chamber allowed the ultimate say in things again mainly voting in a dishonest way, how is that democracy?.

I have just watched George Galloway once more on the Sunday politics show and he is totally correct to point an accusing finger at Turkey's president and question not only Turkey's real motives and the timing of the shooting down of the Russian bomber, if you haven't seen it try to find it on catch up, he actually accused the Turkish president and his family members directly about buying oil from Isis, as usual it's a good watch. However I did not agree with his view that Corbyn should whip any vote, that is totally undemocratic on such an important conscience vote.

Balance Bill.

PS:- As for taking things to seriously maybe you're right, but I am fed up with constantly being accused of being a tory by you, Robbo, Collis and several others on numerous occasions, because I don't support labour ergo I must be a tory.

 

 

[Portland Bill]

George Galloway isn't afraid to say it how it is, I like listening to him. But, did he mention anything about the fact that the group that the Russians were bombing ( when Turkey shot the plane down) was/is being armed by the UK?, this needs to be said, as it just goes to show that the whole Syrian situation is a total mess.

As for me, I stated it on here when I quit the Labour Party, probably 2-3 years ago now. The tories were ( still are) using unemployed people on a scheme called workfare, not only are these people taken off the unemployment statistics, but are forced to work 40 hours a week for there £70 dole money. Company's are using these people rather than employing them, and making big profits for shareholders on the back of unemployed people. The Labour Party imo turned a blind eye to this practise, hence me resigning my membership, thus workfare scheme continues to be the main reason why the unemployment figures are one BIG fiddle.

Through my Union membership I was able to cast a vote for the Labour leader, and no I didn't vote for Corbyn! Even though it was obvious he would win. I'm quite happy he won though, because it's so good to at last have a leader with principles.

Obviously not everything is rosy in the Labour garden at the moment, but the PLP need to realise that Corbyn was voted in by the people and not by them, so rather than whinging about him they need to unify. You may well find it annoying that I see things through a left perspective, but I cannot think of one thing the Tory party have done or are doing that actually helps me, my family, or the millions of others who are struggling to make ends meet at the moment. 

 

 

[IAmNick]

18 hours ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

You see Bill again unlike you and your labour supporting mates on this forum I read them all, in fact I have just read the Mirror and found probably the best headline in a long time "Should we bomb Syria? Captain Hindsight will prove we were wrong, whatever we choose to do", I have an open mind you just follow the others just like sheep and hold the trendy view about certain newspapers, me just like politics I think they are all shit but I also hold the view that when you are right you are right (you should try it Bill).

I would have far more respect for you and other labour supporters on this forum (Screech excepted) if you were a little more balanced but your not balanced Bill, you're just like sheep who bleat about the occasional little victory and then hide in the pen when the shit hits the fan, in short you support labour like you do BCFC.

But hey ho Bill it's really not important about radicalised jihadist's returning to the UK protected by the EU and the human rights act, just ask Parisians Bill, but you know best.

I read that "article" just now. You must be well aware of and understand that some newspapers have an agenda. There are many good balanced articles written, and I try to read points of view from across the spectrum, but things like the express and the mail are not balanced, they are frequently wrong and intentionally provocative. The Guardian (I know, I know) often has Tory supporters writing in the comment section, many of which I like to read, for example.

There is reading a broad swathe of news, and then reading nonsense. I would say if you really base views off headlines like

"ISLAMIC State (ISIS) jihadis have been given carte blanche to reach the gates of Britain and potentially carry out atrocities against innocent civilians after an EU motion backed by Labour BANNED using border controls to stop terrorism."

Then you are reading nonsense, and refusing to read articles like that does not make someone a sheep, it makes them aware of the credibility/agenda of news sources. It's not the "trendy view", it's that these papers intentionally mislead people and make up nonsense to push their agenda, it's the truth. Reading everything and just accepting it at face value is not being balanced, I would in fact say that was being a "sheep", as you put it.

As I said, there are many good, credible, intelligent (and often persuasive) articles written from/by the "right", but you are very unlikely to find them in the mail / express, who instead favour hyperbole and grand sweeping headlines. Lets see the ones linked on of that article the right re: the labour party

"Jeremy Corbyn looks even more clueless in SHELL SUIT as he fights for his political life"

"Labour MPs call for Corbyn to QUIT after acting like 'Fuhrer' amid Syrian airstrikes split"

"Ken Livingstone branded 'total disgrace' after blaming 7/7 terror attacks on Tony Blair"

Fair and balanced, and a reliable source of news for sure.

 

 

 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

45 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

I read that "article" just now. You must be well aware of and understand that some newspapers have an agenda. There are many good balanced articles written, and I try to read points of view from across the spectrum, but things like the express and the mail are not balanced, they are frequently wrong and intentionally provocative. The Guardian (I know, I know) often has Tory supporters writing in the comment section, many of which I like to read, for example.

There is reading a broad swathe of news, and then reading nonsense. I would say if you really base views off headlines like

"ISLAMIC State (ISIS) jihadis have been given carte blanche to reach the gates of Britain and potentially carry out atrocities against innocent civilians after an EU motion backed by Labour BANNED using border controls to stop terrorism."

Then you are reading nonsense, and refusing to read articles like that does not make someone a sheep, it makes them aware of the credibility/agenda of news sources. It's not the "trendy view", it's that these papers intentionally mislead people and make up nonsense to push their agenda, it's the truth. Reading everything and just accepting it at face value is not being balanced, I would in fact say that was being a "sheep", as you put it.

As I said, there are many good, credible, intelligent (and often persuasive) articles written from/by the "right", but you are very unlikely to find them in the mail / express, who instead favour hyperbole and grand sweeping headlines. Lets see the ones linked on of that article the right re: the labour party

"Jeremy Corbyn looks even more clueless in SHELL SUIT as he fights for his political life"

"Labour MPs call for Corbyn to QUIT after acting like 'Fuhrer' amid Syrian airstrikes split"

"Ken Livingstone branded 'total disgrace' after blaming 7/7 terror attacks on Tony Blair"

Fair and balanced, and a reliable source of news for sure.

 

 

 

You can argue all day about the headlines from any paper, of course they are bullshit and are agenda based, that doesn't mean that the 'actual' newsworthy bit contained within the story is factually wrong, whatever the source is.

Here's my problem people say very glib things like "ah well that's the daily mail or the daily express" because it's a trendy position to adopt, I read an article in the guardian claiming that the opponents of the Mayor of Tower Hamlets were purely racially motivated including the police, a view held right up until the high court case that removed him from office, WTF was all that about.

At this moment in time all of the press is quite rightly lambasting the tories over the bullying scandal and the mail and other right wing papers are wading right into it unabated, where is the agenda there? and i'm sure opponents of the tories will use the mail and other papers when it suits, I cannot stand the arrogance attached to it as if somehow the people who hold that view about certain sections of the press are somehow intellectually better than anyone else, it's unbelievable arrogance and snobbery.

The headlines are bullshit and the xenophobia and sensationalism used to press a point are bullshit, sadly just like the shit that invades our TV screens masquerading as entertainment, it's what the public appear to want, our media is so American in it's style these days which is sad, what can you do?. Journalism is a dying art form because any lazy ****** can write a story from other papers 'exclusives' and that is what fills up to 50% of papers these days, with of course it's own added 'agenda' and that includes the guardian.

I read them all because I very rarely watch TV, I read the French papers and read political commentators blogs and the TV news websites and usually when you wade through the bullshit, the lies, the xenophobia and sensationalism of the headlines and most of the story, the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle in a few lines out of an article any article, the media is in general pretty poor and that includes every single newspaper IMO, but not reading all of the views on a particular story because of political beliefs is just burying your head in the sand, the truth is usually as ever somewhere in the middle IMO.

For instance I read a letter today from a UK lorry driver describing the horror of going to Calais and the violence that occurs every time from these mainly fit young aggressive males and the fact that on his last journey the only reason that he is not dead having had a pole thrown through his windscreen from a motorway bridge with hundreds of these 'males' on is because he was driving a left hand drive vehicle, this is a normal hard working man who is also a friend of a friend and not politically motivated, why are stories like this not being transmitted on our screens and in our press?.

 

[...]

Sorry EMB, for the first time I disagree with you, but agree with Corbyn and Tony (Collis1).

Bombing Syria might harm innocent kittens and puppies. If they have lambs there, then they could get dust on them.

Many of the donkeys in those TV ads also live in Syria, and they would look even more sad.

So, in summary, based in the above facts, and self doubts, I agree with Jezza.

 

Uncle TFR

"Up the reds"

[Esmond Million's Bung]

21 hours ago, Portland Bill said:

George Galloway isn't afraid to say it how it is, I like listening to him. But, did he mention anything about the fact that the group that the Russians were bombing ( when Turkey shot the plane down) was/is being armed by the UK?, this needs to be said, as it just goes to show that the whole Syrian situation is a total mess.

As for me, I stated it on here when I quit the Labour Party, probably 2-3 years ago now. The tories were ( still are) using unemployed people on a scheme called workfare, not only are these people taken off the unemployment statistics, but are forced to work 40 hours a week for there £70 dole money. Company's are using these people rather than employing them, and making big profits for shareholders on the back of unemployed people. The Labour Party imo turned a blind eye to this practise, hence me resigning my membership, thus workfare scheme continues to be the main reason why the unemployment figures are one BIG fiddle.

Through my Union membership I was able to cast a vote for the Labour leader, and no I didn't vote for Corbyn! Even though it was obvious he would win. I'm quite happy he won though, because it's so good to at last have a leader with principles.

Obviously not everything is rosy in the Labour garden at the moment, but the PLP need to realise that Corbyn was voted in by the people and not by them, so rather than whinging about him they need to unify. You may well find it annoying that I see things through a left perspective, but I cannot think of one thing the Tory party have done or are doing that actually helps me, my family, or the millions of others who are struggling to make ends meet at the moment. 

 

 

Perhaps as usual Bill the west is frightened to speak of the elephant in the room re Turkey a bit like it's record of violence and racism in football, my cynical side tells me, I wonder how much of the 3billion euro's that the EU is going gift Turkey will end up in Turkish president's family business and actually how many of the promises will actually be honoured.

 

[...]

4 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Perhaps as usual Bill the west is frightened to speak of the elephant in the room re Turkey a bit like it's record of violence and racism in football, my cynical side tells me, I wonder how much of the 3billion euro's that the EU is going gift Turkey will end up in Turkish president's family business and actually how many of the promises will actually be honoured.

 

How much more income tax are you prepared to pay buy all these bombs??

Uncle TFR

[Esmond Million's Bung]

I just read this and wondered how that works?.

"It is understood Mr Corbyn will make clear that the party's official policy is to oppose military action, but he will not impose a whip ordering them to vote against".