Red-Robbo Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 Substitute Foot for Corbyn and Miliband for Kinnock and the picture should become clear, unelectable but hey the labour knows best. Corbyn will strike a cord but when the choice comes, they will not trust him, Britain would be crippled by strikes just like socialist France. More strikes under Thatcher than there were in "the winter of Discontent", Es. As some folk love to put in football threads FACT! Anyway, my view on Jezza is that it is not his economic ideas that make him unelectable - some strike a chord with even people who have never voted Labour in their life, there is an anti-establishment, "we won't do what you tell us" appeal in him that Nigey Wigey and the Sturgeon have also tapped. British voters however will not accept his apologies for IRA violence however, or cosying to Hamas etc. I read yesterday that he even wrote to the CofE in support of that loony vicar who used his parish magazine to advance the hypothesis that Israel was behind 9/11. That's not just idealistic, that's tapping into the mentally ill end of conspiracy theorism. He wouldn't get my vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 The enemy of Tony Blair is my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyderInACan Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 Labour made itself an electable party, albeit mistakes (huge ones) were undeniably made. The shift to the (far, it would seem) left puts them in the wilderness I fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dolman Pragmatist Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 The freedom hating commie is even less electable than Red Ed, but seems set to win a landslide over Andy Burnham, a man who I could easily see as Prime Minister. Why? I just can't understand the shortsightedness. He doesn't hate freedom and he certainly isn't a 'commie'. He is an 'old-fashioned' socialist and a very decent bloke (he is a close friend of a friend). Whether he is right for the Labour Party now is an interesting question, but don't knock the man himself. He is an honest and trustworthy man who represents a great tradition in the Labour Party, which Blair decided to dispense with. Whether Blair was right, and whether Corbyn's election would destroy the Labour party, are the issues. However, there is a strong line of thought amongst some Labour party activists that it is not all about winning elections, but about re-establishing principles and getting away from the situation where most parties are fighting in the same narrow ground. I don't think Corbyn will win in the end, but I think it's good for the Labour party that they are having this debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 More strikes under Thatcher than there were in "the winter of Discontent", Es. As some folk love to put in football threads FACT! Anyway, my view on Jezza is that it is not his economic ideas that make him unelectable - some strike a chord with even people who have never voted Labour in their life, there is an anti-establishment, "we won't do what you tell us" appeal in him that Nigey Wigey and the Sturgeon have also tapped. British voters however will not accept his apologies for IRA violence however, or cosying to Hamas etc. I read yesterday that he even wrote to the CofE in support of that loony vicar who used his parish magazine to advance the hypothesis that Israel was behind 9/11. That's not just idealistic, that's tapping into the mentally ill end of conspiracy theorism. He wouldn't get my vote. and why was that?, because the unions had successfully brought down Heath's government and had run rings around yer actual Harold Wilson and especially Jimmy Callaghan and thought that they ran the country and could bring down Thatchers government as well until she took away all of their toys away. Anyway yet again historically when the UK needs a strong 'credible' opposition, labour goes into self destruction mode and elects not one but two unelectable leaders and sparks another all out war amongst it's ranks, 15 years (at least) out of power, blaming the tories, the tory press and blaming the electorate won't wash, labour seem hell bent on keeping the tories in power thus enabling the tories in what they will get away with. I recall when I criticised the unions influence in electing Miliband once you defended the wonderful new system put in place as being one man one vote, wow well they have really ****** that one up with their come and join us and just promise us that you have no allegiance to any other political party online blitz, the brain that came up with that gem deserves a knighthood. Be careful what you wish for, as they say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Maesknoll Red Posted August 12, 2015 Admin Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 I am amazed by the naievity displayed by Labour in using this method of voting, I cannot recall any club that I have ever belonged to, that has not had a rule that new members cannot vote in elections for club officials for anywhere between 1 and 3 years, to stop hostile takeovers of committees. That a national political party could not forsee the likelihood of people signing up, for reasons varying from mischevious to seriously plotting take over, is beyond comprehension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ducky Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 Be good to have a non-self-serving, conviction politician in a powerful position at Westminster. He probably is unelectable in terms of a General Election but at least it will be refreshing to hear someone properly get stuck in to the Tories, the super-rich, war-mongerers etc and stick up for the public sector, which is currently being decimated. I predict he'll actually strike a lot of chords with a lot of people over the above issues, but the right-wing media are going to abolsutely tear him a new one unfortunately and a fair few of his views are a little idealistic and not backed up with enough substance at the moment. He'll be interested at least, unlike Miliband. Burnham unfortunately comes across as ponderous and dull, though total respect to him for opening the Hillsborough inquiry. what, his mates from blair's labour? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 You praised the system as better than the tory system, which may have been true and they added their suicide caveat, as I said the person who came up with that should be knighted. Wheeze is a bit of stretch, complete and utter **** up is nearer the mark. The two things went hand in hand throughout the 60's and 70's, labour government = ridiculous pay rises and conditions, tory government = strikes to bring down said tory government. Well you could add Tory government = ridiculous pay rises for directors and City slickers, but I was making a point that I don't think it would necessarily be the case that if we ever - by some extraordinary quirk of fate - had Corbyn as PM then I don't think it logically follows that you'd have a wave of industrial unrest. Regarding Labour's new electoral system, we clearly agree. If only fully paid-up members voted, that would have been a much better idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Bill Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 The way I see it is: If both the Tories and Labour offer almost identical right wing policies, the public will choose the tories. Therefore, the Labour Party must offer something different - i.e. socialist policies. Policies which include: cancellation of Trident; an end to privatisation of the NHS; support for Palestine; a closing of the wealth gap; meaningful, fair taxation of the rich; an end to the nonsense called monarchy etc etc. I rather like the idea of a leader who rides a bike, who has an allotment and who cannot be bothered to wear a suit. AND IS AN HONEST BLOKE. What a change that would be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmersonsRed Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 We are going to be a tory ran country for decades. Mark my words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 ...... who would be a fox. TFR (Apart from Liz Kendall) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasbuster Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 I fail to see how any of what you describe is going to help the public in any way shape or form, it's the labour party eating itself once more and managing to find the most unelectable leader imaginable twice in a row AGAIN!, just like Foot and Kinnock revisited, you sadly couldn't make it up, the tory press will savage him from arsehole to breakfast time, from his perceived terrorist appeasement to his perceived anti semitism and with Gorgeous George Galloway threatening a return to the labour party, the party's over. I hope to God we are spared the re-emergence of that ****** ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Maesknoll Red Posted August 13, 2015 Admin Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 Last night on R5 they had a guy on who has got a twitter campaign going to elect Corbyn, he is a card carrying Tory and has registered himself, his middle name and his wife as members of Labour to get three votes, he claims there are thousands of others doing the same. They then had a Labour MP on, who is pretty open that his party is a laughing stock and has let itself open to abuse, with the system. Apparently their database can't pick up on multiple applications from the same address and they have a handful of people manually checking the new members...... I have no allegience to any party, but this does make Labour look like rank amatuers, wouldn't fill me full of confidence in their ability to run a country with any level of success. ( Thats not to say that any of the other parties make me feel comfortable about their skills, intentions and sense of public duty ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SARJ Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 Corbyn has a history of being chummy with terrorist organisations. He met the IRA several times during the trouble and refused to publicly speak out against their actions, and he also described Hezbollah and Hamas as his friends. Strong rumours he's an anti-Semite too. God help Great Britain if this clown ever comes to power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 I hear "strong rumours" that he's a Martian, too Anyone who condemns Israeli oppression will be the subject of "strong rumours" that he's an anti-Semite, even if he's Jewish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 Yvette Cooper's speech today superb IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welcome To The Jungle Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 Corbyn has a history of being chummy with terrorist organisations. He met the IRA several times during the trouble and refused to publicly speak out against their actions, and he also described Hezbollah and Hamas as his friends. Strong rumours he's an anti-Semite too. God help Great Britain if this clown ever comes to power. Do you speak out against British Airmen who bombed German cities, knowing full well that they were killing thousands of innocent citizens? Or the British soldiers who killed thousands of innocent people in Iraq and Afghanistan? There is no difference really. The IRA had an enemy and they bombed cities killing innocents. We had an enemy and we bombed their cities killing innocents. People do horrible things in war, but you can't condemn one side without condemning the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 Do you speak out against British Airmen who bombed German cities, knowing full well that they were killing thousands of innocent citizens? Or the British soldiers who killed thousands of innocent people in Iraq and Afghanistan? There is no difference really. The IRA had an enemy and they bombed cities killing innocents. We had an enemy and we bombed their cities killing innocents. People do horrible things in war, but you can't condemn one side without condemning the other. What you say might have minute of amount of credence had Blair and Hain applied your logic to the good Friday surrender agreement, the one that allowed hundreds of on the run murderers a get out jail free card but left military personnel on offer for future prosecution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyderInACan Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 Corbyn has a history of being chummy with terrorist organisations. He met the IRA several times during the trouble and refused to publicly speak out against their actions, and he also described Hezbollah and Hamas as his friends. Strong rumours he's an anti-Semite too. God help Great Britain if this clown ever comes to power. I don't think we have to worry about this TBH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SARJ Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 Do you speak out against British Airmen who bombed German cities, knowing full well that they were killing thousands of innocent citizens? Or the British soldiers who killed thousands of innocent people in Iraq and Afghanistan? There is no difference really. The IRA had an enemy and they bombed cities killing innocents. We had an enemy and we bombed their cities killing innocents. People do horrible things in war, but you can't condemn one side without condemning the other. I don't know where to begin with your reply. Tragic. In every sense of the word. Expect you'd probably be a hero on the Celtic forum; insulting British war veterans whilst defending the IRA, all in one paragraph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 Last night on R5 they had a guy on who has got a twitter campaign going to elect Corbyn, he is a card carrying Tory and has registered himself, his middle name and his wife as members of Labour to get three votes, he claims there are thousands of others doing the same. They then had a Labour MP on, who is pretty open that his party is a laughing stock and has let itself open to abuse, with the system. Apparently their database can't pick up on multiple applications from the same address and they have a handful of people manually checking the new members...... I have no allegience to any party, but this does make Labour look like rank amatuers, wouldn't fill me full of confidence in their ability to run a country with any level of success. ( Thats not to say that any of the other parties make me feel comfortable about their skills, intentions and sense of public duty ). The Twitter guy is scum then. Deplorable thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Maesknoll Red Posted August 13, 2015 Admin Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 The Twitter guy is scum then. Deplorable thing to do. That maybe so, but the naievity in not realising that people would do that and putting proper safeguards in place, is unbelieveable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted August 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 Do you speak out against British Airmen who bombed German cities, knowing full well that they were killing thousands of innocent citizens? Or the British soldiers who killed thousands of innocent people in Iraq and Afghanistan? There is no difference really. The IRA had an enemy and they bombed cities killing innocents. We had an enemy and we bombed their cities killing innocents. People do horrible things in war, but you can't condemn one side without condemning the other. Unbelievable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Bill Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 Last night on R5 they had a guy on who has got a twitter campaign going to elect Corbyn, he is a card carrying Tory and has registered himself, his middle name and his wife as members of Labour to get three votes, he claims there are thousands of others doing the same. They then had a Labour MP on, who is pretty open that his party is a laughing stock and has let itself open to abuse, with the system. Apparently their database can't pick up on multiple applications from the same address and they have a handful of people manually checking the new members...... I have no allegience to any party, but this does make Labour look like rank amatuers, wouldn't fill me full of confidence in their ability to run a country with any level of success. ( Thats not to say that any of the other parties make me feel comfortable about their skills, intentions and sense of public duty ). I think this says more about the Tories than about Labour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Maesknoll Red Posted August 13, 2015 Admin Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 I think this says more about the Tories than about Labour. Its not just Tories, socialist worker memebrs, other hard left group members have done the same thing, I'm not defending any of them, but to leave such a loop hole and expect everyone to be totally honest and above board is now Labours problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRock Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 So we've a radicial right wing party in power and off the leash. Now we have the likelihood of a radical left wing opposition. Anyone fancy setting up a 'commonsense' party? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 https://www.politicshome.com/party-politics/articles/news/yvette-cooper-speech-manchester Yvette Cooper speech transcript. Well worth a read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted August 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 Does he really want to leave NATO? I did a quick google but couldn't find an exact quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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