chipdawg Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Do you have to be an MP to understand that a Tory government will look to privatize everything, whilst in general a Labour government won't? Naming one example of Labour privatization isn't exactly a groundbreaking discovery. Certainly not a reason to rule out voting for them if you want public services to remain intact. Unfortunately looking at the most recent Labour government, I don't think you can say that's true. Under Blair, they got balls deep in the private sector and the concept of privatisation, even if it wasn't quite so direct as the Tories. In terms of idealism, I agree with you. In practical terms Labour have been just as keen to sell off public services and assets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jimmer Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Unfortunately looking at the most recent Labour government, I don't think you can say that's true. Under Blair, they got balls deep in the private sector and the concept of privatisation, even if it wasn't quite so direct as the Tories. In terms of idealism, I agree with you. In practical terms Labour have been just as keen to sell off public services and assets Blairs Labour was guilty of dabbling too much into the private sector (he will tell you he did it to retain the quality of the core public services). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Do you have to be an MP to understand that a Tory government will look to privatize everything, whilst in general a Labour government won't? Naming one example of Labour privatization isn't exactly a groundbreaking discovery. Certainly not a reason to rule out voting for them if you want public services to remain intact. it's a ground breaking discovery because of their weasely words about how disgusting it is to privatise the NHS, they did it first end of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 it's a ground breaking discovery because of their weasely words about how disgusting it is to privatise the NHS, they did it first end of. Quite true. And Corbyn voted against it on every occasion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshy Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 We need a healthy dose of socialism to close the gap between the rich and poor and to nationalise the railways. We can't afford to nationalise the railways even if the government wished it. Unless of course you propose to steal them from the people you sold them to by confiscating them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jimmer Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 We can't afford to nationalise the railways even if the government wished it. Unless of course you propose to steal them from the people you sold them to by confiscating them. It is definitely possible if they introduce the right legislation. I also read that they have the backing of the railways unions to do this. Its interesting to note that the rail workers want to work in a public system - you would think it was the other way around. When the rail networks went private staff actually lost all their benefits, pay was capped and they get treated like crap. I find it very difficult to understand how even a Conservative supporter would be against a plan to reduce rail fare prices. Socialist, or just common sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshy Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 We can't afford to nationalise the railways even if the government wished it. Unless of course you propose to steal them from the people you sold them to by confiscating them. Most of the contracts are up from 2020, all the government have to do is not put them back out to tender. Given the profits made by East Coast mainline when in government hands, we could easily afford to purchase the rolling stock and reinvest profits into lower fairs. Rail is about the only think that could be nationalised without too much fuss or cost (relatively speaking). I also think we could renationalise energy transmission, i.e. Gas and electric lines, too, but that is surely a debate for another day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshy Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Most of the contracts are up from 2020, all the government have to do is not put them back out to tender. Given the profits made by East Coast mainline when in government hands, we could easily afford to purchase the rolling stock and reinvest profits into lower fairs. Rail is about the only think that could be nationalised without too much fuss or cost (relatively speaking). I also think we could renationalise energy transmission, i.e. Gas and electric lines, too, but that is surely a debate for another day Interesting, considering the next election date. I'm guessing they could have contract extensions done and dusted beforehand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Interesting, considering the next election date. I'm guessing they could have contract extensions done and dusted beforehand. Certainly for a few as far as I know. It's a pipe dream anyway, unless Labour take it on as a policy and can demonstrate significant public support because obviously it's not something Dave and George are going to put forward. It certainly seems to be a concept that's growing in popularity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyderInACan Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 It is definitely possible if they introduce the right legislation. I also read that they have the backing of the railways unions to do this. Its interesting to note that the rail workers want to work in a public system - you would think it was the other way around. When the rail networks went private staff actually lost all their benefits, pay was capped and they get treated like crap. I find it very difficult to understand how even a Conservative supporter would be against a plan to reduce rail fare prices. Socialist, or just common sense? Hardly surprising that, is it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasbuster Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasbuster Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Perhaps you should be asking why bus drivers earn so little, GB, rather than questioning other workers' salaries? Good point R.R. Bus drivers do a good job for little return. Hardly surprising so many are Eastern Europeans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Good point R.R. Bus drivers do a good job for little return. Hardly surprising so many are Eastern Europeans. Like train networks, buses in most countries are run by the state - recognising the public interest in having affordable public transport as an alternative to overcrowded roads. It is ironic that two of London's main bus operators are owned by the state-owned and partly-state owned French and German rail companies. These companies keep fares low in their homelands but charge a premium to witless foreigners like us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Sounds as though our Jeremy is readying himself for high office already. http://news.sky.com/story/1538398/corbyn-admits-meeting-banned-extremist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Rail fares are an odd one. I do believe in a nationalised rail, but when you look at the % of the population that actually use the network, it's very small. Hard to justify spending more on it imo. If the price of using a train was more affordable, I think a 'lot' more people would do just that. Let's face it, our road network is pathetic ( one incident on any motorway and chaos ensues) and inept. We need to have a decent affordable way for the masses to leave cars at home and use trains or other public transport. I know I'm probably dreaming, but sometime, something has to change in this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Maesknoll Red Posted August 19, 2015 Admin Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 I am on trains every working day and there isn't much capacity left for anyone else to use them, so the railway, without massive infrastructure and rolling stock investment, wouldn't cope with 'fares for the people' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasbuster Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 If the price of using a train was more affordable, I think a 'lot' more people would do just that. Let's face it, our road network is pathetic ( one incident on any motorway and chaos ensues) and inept. We need to have a decent affordable way for the masses to leave cars at home and use trains or other public transport. I know I'm probably dreaming, but sometime, something has to change in this country. Far from a dream, Bill. A government with vision could deliver, be it public or private owned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flaxbourton Red Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Why don't the conservatives privatise the motorway network? Toll roads would allow the motorways to pay for themselves. I'm sure it would be a move that would go down well in the rabid right wing world of the daily mail telegraph readership... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Why don't the conservatives privatise the motorway network? Toll roads would allow the motorways to pay for themselves. I'm sure it would be a move that would go down well in the rabid right wing world of the daily mail telegraph readership... Because the government are reliant on the tax generated by Vehicle Excise Duty for more than just maintaining roads and there's no way they could operate toll roads and car tax without losing a lot of votes. A 'Pay As You Use' system for roads would probably be the most fair way of taxing road use all in all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoke_Gifford_Red Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Rail fares are an odd one. I do believe in a nationalised rail, but when you look at the % of the population that actually use the network, it's very small. Hard to justify spending more on it imo. A much higher number of people benefit from the use of the railway than actually use it - primarily as it removes vehicles from the road. As an example - Temple Meads has about 10 million people using it a year. In an average working day there are therefore 30,000+ people travelling by train - if all of these moved from the train to car congestion in Bristol would be even worse with the delays to journeys (with an economic and quality of life impact) and additional pollution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoke_Gifford_Red Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Apparently the financial markets will prefer a Corbyn win, as it will increase the chances of the Conservatives winning again. www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-08-19/corbyn-labour-party-offers-u-k-bond-investors-an-unlikely-ally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshy Posted August 22, 2015 Report Share Posted August 22, 2015 Well, whatever you think of Corbyn, you have to admit that the Labour Party has made a farcical, shambolic mess of organizing a leadership election. It can give you no confidence whatsoever in their ability to run the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1960maaan Posted August 22, 2015 Report Share Posted August 22, 2015 Far from a dream, Bill. A government with vision could deliver, be it public or private owned. Would probably have to be a socialist Gov that believed in a Nationalised Rail service. One where profits would be put back into the industry for improvements and running costs instead of the pockets of Private owners and shareholders. As I understand it even though privately owned, they still receive Gov subsidies . Even while paying shareholder dividends. Imagine the money that could be saved as a Nationalised company ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted August 22, 2015 Report Share Posted August 22, 2015 Well, whatever you think of Corbyn, you have to admit that the Labour Party has made a farcical, shambolic mess of organizing a leadership election. It can give you no confidence whatsoever in their ability to run the country. Dunno. Is it worse than the behind-closed-doors stitch up that decides Tory leaders? Voted in by a few dozen people. Or UKIP'S farcical "I resign" er, hang on, there's no-one else..... "I'm back!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted August 22, 2015 Report Share Posted August 22, 2015 Would probably have to be a socialist Gov that believed in a Nationalised Rail service. One where profits would be put back into the industry for improvements and running costs instead of the pockets of Private owners and shareholders. As I understand it even though privately owned, they still receive Gov subsidies . Even while paying shareholder dividends. Imagine the money that could be saved as a Nationalised company ! Indeed they do. And guess what, the railways cost the government more money now they are privatised than when they were state-run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted August 22, 2015 Report Share Posted August 22, 2015 Dunno. Is it worse than the behind-closed-doors stitch up that decides Tory leaders? Voted in by a few dozen people. Or UKIP'S farcical "I resign" er, hang on, there's no-one else..... "I'm back!" Yes Robbo but you don't have an iota of support for the tories or UKIP so why should you care?, but surely even you can see that what the labour party have in essence done is one of the reasons that the tories were elected, FFS they have invented a new saying 'they couldn't organise a leadership poll in a dictatorship'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshy Posted August 22, 2015 Report Share Posted August 22, 2015 Dunno. Is it worse than the behind-closed-doors stitch up that decides Tory leaders? Voted in by a few dozen people. Or UKIP'S farcical "I resign" er, hang on, there's no-one else..... "I'm back!" Yep, a lot worse Robbo, and a poor bunch of candidates to boot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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