Can I be the first to say... SC out!

[cottsciderarmy]

The thing is, I don't think sacking SC will really change anything between now and January, so he should be given until then to steady the sinking ship however he was brought to Bristol City to prevent us from getting relegated to League Two and then to assemble a squad to get us out of League One. I think on that basis he has succeeded in his tasks. But the thing is , we are now in the Championship, and it should be put that we need to remain in this division more than one season, so if SC is not up to that task (the jury is still out) then we need to appoint someone in much the same way we appointed SC. Someone who can maintain our Championship status and then look to progress. I like SC and appreciate all he has done for the club and his tenure has been a success, but sometimes certain people can only take clubs so far and I'm starting to wonder if SC has taken us as high as he can.

There are a number of unemployed experienced managers who have been successful at this level, whether it be gaining promotions or avoiding relegation and also a large number who have been established in the top flight. Financially they may be out of our league, or they may not even be interested but come the beginning of December unless we find ourselves in around 19th/20th, then the board must act for the clubs best long term interests and not just be loyal based on the last two years. I would have more respect for SC to turn around in a few weeks and say I've taken this club as far as I can and hand the reigns to a more experienced 2nd tier manager who could get improvement from the squad, than to watch SC take us back to League One as it would undo all the good he has done. 

Some of our players aren't good enough, some are more than good enough, but unless we start climbing the table, January or even the summer could see the heads of those players turned. I think we all know that Bryan, Freeman, Kodjia, Smith, Flint and possibly Ayling would  not struggle to find another Championship club, so relegation would be a disaster for us.

[MATT BCFC]

They wont sign for us....No one wants to go to a club trying to establish itself, we have seen that already. The rumour is we offered more than Burnley to the striker in wages, but they were a better bet for his career....

We need to change our strategy somehow to bring good players here but its chicken and egg right now. players will come if the club will challenge and to do that our existing players need to be better and get better results....And you really dont believe he should stick his ground up his ass do you?...SL is as gutted as you are tonight! 

that's rubbish he's getting paid far more at Burnley than we were willing to pay. The majority of players will just go to who offers the most money. Hence why Man city and Chelsea have had the success they have.

[Phileas Fogg]

I'm highly disappointed that any momentum from winning the title seems to have totally dissipated. We got to the playoffs under GJ with a team lacking in ability but with a gameplan, work ethic and momentum carried forward from promotion.

There were times yesterday when our players, who are usually good ball players, looked terrified on the ball. We lacked incision and zest in our passing, it was all a bit timid.

[ChippenhamRed]

No its no joke but your response certainly is.  Of course enjoy your family but **** you too. What the club needs are proper fans not those who throw a tantrum when thinks aren't going our way.  That's life Matey so get used to it.

Sorry

Do you think the daytrippers who came to Wembley earlier this year are having "tantrums" about our current form?

I'm not sure how you define "proper" supporters, but I'd say it's the ones who care enough to get annoyed and frustrated when things aren't going our way.

[Phileas Fogg]

that's rubbish he's getting paid far more at Burnley than we were willing to pay. The majority of players will just go to who offers the most money. Hence why Man city and Chelsea have had the success they have.

Apparently not in this instance. The "package" at Burnley was more (maybe that included a signing on fee, promotion bonus etc) but we allegedly offered higher wages.

If I were a player supporting neither club I would have chosen Burnley too, much better chance of promotion there. Reading Grey's interview after signing he cited Dyche as a big motivation because of his work with Danny Ings.

[Numero Uno]

If potential targets hear of dressing room punch-ups, targets from lower leagues being not followed up on because the info didn't come from a source that could allegedly profit the recruiter, and the owner being at his wits end with the manager totally dividing the board - then they won't come.

The word has been around the agent circles before last season ended that major managerial changes may be made - only a title and cup put that off.

The damage was done. The management team at BCFC are allegedly potentially subject to change as soon as the owner has had enough.

No decent player want's to risk his career by coming to a club that internally is divided at the upper levels - and that's why no-one came.

Wages were not the reason.

Now look at where the club is.

 

Let's assume that everything you say above is correct.

Another way of wording that would be "the owner is very p1$$ed off that the man he sanctioned to Manage the football club without a proper recruitment process being in place is causing so much trouble that he is now forced to sack him". So making the massive assumption that you are correct who is to blame for sanctioning the lack of a recruitment process and due diligence?

[BobBobSuperBob]

I am not sure "allegedly potentially " validates things much, but I too have heard same from external sources and some players. SC is not seen favourably by players, and this came from one of our transfer targets of the summer. I can also agree wages were not the issue in that specific case. Something is clearly wrong off the field, and the results on the pitch show there is not a lot working well there either. 

 

true - Whether our supporters Like it or not , our manager has a 'reputation' amongst (some) players and agents and it 'may be' that players do not want to come here , end of.

I think some may also be surprised what some of the current squad / last yeas squad also think of the managers 'approach'.

Not a good base to be fighting relegation.

[screech]

They wont sign for us....No one wants to go to a club trying to establish itself, we have seen that already. The rumour is we offered more than Burnley to the striker in wages, but they were a better bet for his career....

We need to change our strategy somehow to bring good players here but its chicken and egg right now. players will come if the club will challenge and to do that our existing players need to be better and get better results....And you really dont believe he should stick his ground up his ass do you?...SL is as gutted as you are tonight! 

That's not true at all regarding the wages. The wages were good until Burnley came in for him, then he changed his mind.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

 

Thing is though is that your history of posting is quite simply full of vitriol on all things BCFC. It would be quite shocking if you ever had anything remotely positive to say.

[Phileas Fogg]

Jimmy Floyd H is an up and coming manager, worked with Burt too when at Nots F . Looks like Rotherham tried to get him .

If we were managerless he'd be my choice. He's probably destined for Leeds eventually.

[eardun]

If anyone has ever played football or has a knowledge of the game, then they will know with all things being equal, and it be taken as read that sufficient ability and talent is present……..then it becomes 70per cent psychology. That is how great teams like Barcelona, Arsenal or Chelsea suddenly can't string two passes together and start making schoolboy errors totally out of character with their normal performances.  i am  obviously not comparing our lot with such luminaries…but the point is that City put themselves under pressure and started to suffer from nerves in the second half, they lost belief in themselves and became frightened to take risks, and failed to relax and play their natural game.  This is when a good manager earns his wages, by instilling confidence and belief in his players by organising them and giving them the faith in their ability.  I don't think there is a lot wrong with City, but Cotterill needs to do his job properly and Lansdown needs to support him sufficiently by helping him bring in 1 or 2 new faces.  City were terrified of losing today, and once they got the lead were desperate to hold onto it, and psychologically withdrew deeper into there shells both physically and mentally. I think things are not as bad as some knee jerk reactions are trying to portray. If we get some breaks I still see us finishing 15th or higher.

Agree with a lot of this. It seemed to me that it was desperation to get a win and the players' tension and nervousness associated with that that affected the performance. I didn't see that it was SC's tactics to sit back in the second half; on the contrary, on the touch line he seemed to be instructing the players to push up and forward more than they were.

[Major Isewater]

 

Any excuse

 

[Rob k]

That 2nd half was as bad as I've seen, it was awful.

The management team have a hell of a lot to answer for, their summers work was well below what was required and for me they should fully shoulder the blame for where we are.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

That 2nd half was as bad as I've seen, it was awful.

The management team have a hell of a lot to answer for, their summers work was well below what was required and for me they should fully shoulder the blame for where we are.

And therein lies the big question. Who actually was it that screwed it up?

I think I know but not because I'm ITK.

[Rob k]

And therein lies the big question. Who actually was it that screwed it up?

I think I know but not because I'm ITK.

well Pelling has paid the price but has to be down to Burt and SC ultimately 

[old_eastender]

I am massively disappointed like all City fans after our shambolic summer transfer window and some of Cotts decisions in games this season. Yesterday was tactically inept, surely it had to be Cotts instructions to move Kodjia & Wilbs out to the flanks and have the wing backs drop back 20 yards, as that happened from the off in the second half.

That said I see no point in replacing him now, should be given to December then if we are still in the mire bring in a new manager who can make far better use of the January window that we did the summer window.

Maybe SC was right in saying that if Korey has played we might have had enough fight in midfield to have hung on for the 3 pts, but overall we are desperately needing a leader in midfield to replace Pack and a more mobile CF to replace Wilbs. For me we should be using loans to get those two key players, even if that means ending the loans of Moore or Robinson, both of whom look no better to me than we already have in the squad.

 

[Randy Marsh]

Agree @old_eastender in regards to the loans. Think we should probably send back Hamer and Moore and bring in the two positions you've stated. Need to be smart with the loans considering we can barely field a five a side team. 

[T R]

Just heard on the football league show that the manager of burton hasselbaink has been approached by a championship club. Hope it is not us. Sorry if already been mentioned.

[BobBobSuperBob]

Just heard on the football league show that the manager of burton hasselbaink has been approached by a championship club. Hope it is not us. Sorry if already been mentioned.

Rotherham I think you'll find Threshing 

[samo II]

... overall we are desperately needing a leader in midfield to replace Pack and a more mobile CF to replace Wilbs. For me we should be using loans to get those two key players, even if that means ending the loans of Moore or Robinson, both of whom look no better to me than we already have in the squad.

 

Agree @old_eastender in regards to the loans. Think we should probably send back Hamer and Moore and bring in the two positions you've stated. Need to be smart with the loans considering we can barely field a five a side team. 

I too agree completely with this position; if making space for loans we need involves swallowing our pride (or any financial penalties) by sending home those players who seems to only be here to make up the numbers (EXACTLY what was claimed we would not be doing this summer), then so be it.

I understand Hamer is struggling with mystery headaches, and his form was not great prior (though that said; Hamer has kept our only clean sheet, and against the second highers scorers in the league), but if he's just bench fodder, then I think that the risk we took last year of giving a kid a chance there would be worth it to free up a squad place for another loan.

Equally, it was nice to see Robinson get some minutes yesterday, but since his last start versus Leeds, he's racked up only about the same number of minutes he played that match (60) across the subsequent seven matches, with Reid clearly having moved above him in the peaking order.  Same can be said of Moore; after getting benched at half time against Reading, having been withdrawn relatively early versus Preston the game prior to that, it's again clear he is behind every other option bar El Abd for game time, so you have to ask; is he really worth the space in the squad, when he are really struggling to get to grips with games in the middle of the park.

Honestly; I don't think we can afford to stand still on this - we need some more experience and authority in the midfield in order to help us see out games like the one yesterday, and take other matches by the scruff of the neck and not let go.  

And though I sympathise with the difficulties recruiting, when you look at the likes of our next opponents who have operated under a transfer embago, yet brought in the like of Williams from Palace, Ebecilio from Twente and Mendes from Lille to bolster their own midfield (all of whom have looked good for them, according to reports), I question those who make arguments it is simply not possible.  It might be more difficult now, but it was and still is far from impossible.

I advocate SC being given license to aggressively shake things up/set the cat among the pigeons by pulling in some quality short term loans just now.  When bottom at a similar time of the season under McInnes we were able to bring in the likes of Neil Danns, and I highly doubt our wage budget is as tightly packed as it was then, nor do I believe there do not exist players of similar experience and quality available out there - we just need to act.  Fast.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

well Pelling has paid the price but has to be down to Burt and SC ultimately 

See my thoughts on new "Lansdown" thread- I don't think it was.

[Frenchay Red]

I too agree completely with this position; if making space for loans we need involves swallowing our pride (or any financial penalties) by sending home those players who seems to only be here to make up the numbers (EXACTLY what was claimed we would not be doing this summer), then so be it.

I understand Hamer is struggling with mystery headaches, and his form was not great prior (though that said; Hamer has kept our only clean sheet, and against the second highers scorers in the league), but if he's just bench fodder, then I think that the risk we took last year of giving a kid a chance there would be worth it to free up a squad place for another loan.

Equally, it was nice to see Robinson get some minutes yesterday, but since his last start versus Leeds, he's racked up only about the same number of minutes he played that match (60) across the subsequent seven matches, with Reid clearly having moved above him in the peaking order.  Same can be said of Moore; after getting benched at half time against Reading, having been withdrawn relatively early versus Preston the game prior to that, it's again clear he is behind every other option bar El Abd for game time, so you have to ask; is he really worth the space in the squad, when he are really struggling to get to grips with games in the middle of the park.

Honestly; I don't think we can afford to stand still on this - we need some more experience and authority in the midfield in order to help us see out games like the one yesterday, and take other matches by the scruff of the neck and not let go.  

And though I sympathise with the difficulties recruiting, when you look at the likes of our next opponents who have operated under a transfer embago, yet brought in the like of Williams from Palace, Ebecilio from Twente and Mendes from Lille to bolster their own midfield (all of whom have looked good for them, according to reports), I question those who make arguments it is simply not possible.  It might be more difficult now, but it was and still is far from impossible.

I advocate SC being given license to aggressively shake things up/set the cat among the pigeons by pulling in some quality short term loans just now.  When bottom at a similar time of the season under McInnes we were able to bring in the likes of Neil Danns, and I highly doubt our wage budget is as tightly packed as it was then, nor do I believe there do not exist players of similar experience and quality available out there - we just need to act.  Fast.

Moore is out following a hernia operation. Everything else fair comments

[T R]

Rotherham I think you'll find Threshing 

Oh that is relief then. Cheers

[samo II]

Moore is out following a hernia operation. Everything else fair comments

That's fair, though does highlight the issues with having such a paper thin squad - two injuries and we're down to complete bare bones.

Here's hoping when Moore is back he doesn't take too long to get back to fitness, because we've only got him until January, and I don't see him extending his deal here if he's behind those he is right now.

[Frenchay Red]

That's fair, though does highlight the issues with having such a paper thin squad - two injuries and we're down to complete bare bones.

Here's hoping when Moore is back he doesn't take too long to get back to fitness, because we've only got him until January, and I don't see him extending his deal here if he's behind those he is right now.

Could take a while to recover from the op, and then factor in regaining match fitness, bearing in mind he hasn't played much anyway, so can't really see him being of that much use TBH.

[REDOXO]

that's rubbish he's getting paid far more at Burnley than we were willing to pay. The majority of players will just go to who offers the most money. Hence why Man city and Chelsea have had the success they have.

There is/was plenty of anecdotal evidence coming from the club that in their opinion the deal on offer at AG was better than that on offer at Burnley. It has been mentioned on here multiple multiple times, but I am glad you are in a position to state that is in fact rubbish and your sources within the club do in fact support the notion this is rubbish despite all evidence to the contrary. Thanks! 

In response to your Man City Chelsea commentary and without boring you and the reader wit some very basic employment  psychology  let me enlighten you. In the majority of cases people will work for the highest wage, however there is a point at which money is not the biggest driver and other needs come in to play.

The simple fact is if Liverpool were offering Messi 500k per week and Man U were offering 470k per week the likelyhood is Messi would sign for Man U for a better chance of Champions league football...This is a very simple example, however in the case of Andre Grey Burnley offer a much better chance of Prem football than a newly promoted but ambitious cub like ours and as such Burnley had the edge as they would have over the likes of Bristol City, MK, Rotherham, PNE (to a lessor extent) et al.

Your model of highest bidder would also blow what happened in the Gayle transfer out of the water as he was offered a kings ransom to drop a league but wanted a much much higher pay packet (plus huge signing bonus) to do that to compensate for not playing Premier League Football...He is still at CP and in there first team or there abouts and was not prepared to lose that (premer legue football) over a huge pay packet on offer here and clearly made the right decision for him as he looked good recently....Herzberg/Maslow although pretty basic will help, look them up...  

The boy from Man U was the same did not want to play for a backwater football club like ours...We have to learn to break that cycle!....

 

[REDOXO]

That's not true at all regarding the wages. The wages were good until Burnley came in for him, then he changed his mind.

I refer you to the comments above!

[One Team In Keynsham]

Bet you can't name our reserve keeper....

Do we have one?

[GrahamC]

Could take a while to recover from the op, and then factor in regaining match fitness, bearing in mind he hasn't played much anyway, so can't really see him being of that much use TBH.

Pretty sure we can have more than five on loan (seven?) but can then only use five at one time.

As we currently only have four and one of them is injured, even including Hamer who is currently only our back up keeper, (somewhere I agree we could gamble with O'Leary on the bench if necessary) we could still bring in two more now if we wanted to.

Rotherham recently borrowed a French midfielder from Norwich, Tony Andreu and he scored the winner at Brum, for so many reasons (a fellow French speaker for Kodjia being an obvious one) this is exactly the sort of player we should have looked at.

[screech]

There is/was plenty of anecdotal evidence coming from the club that in their opinion the deal on offer at AG was better than that on offer at Burnley. It has been mentioned on here multiple multiple times, but I am glad you are in a position to state that is in fact rubbish and your sources within the club do in fact support the notion this is rubbish despite all evidence to the contrary. Thanks! 

In response to your Man City Chelsea commentary and without boring you and the reader wit some very basic employment  psychology  let me enlighten you. In the majority of cases people will work for the highest wage, however there is a point at which money is not the biggest driver and other needs come in to play.

The simple fact is if Liverpool were offering Messi 500k per week and Man U were offering 470k per week the likelyhood is Messi would sign for Man U for a better chance of Champions league football...This is a very simple example, however in the case of Andre Grey Burnley offer a much better chance of Prem football than a newly promoted but ambitious cub like ours and as such Burnley had the edge as they would have over the likes of Bristol City, MK, Rotherham, PNE (to a lessor extent) et al.

Your model of highest bidder would also blow what happened in the Gayle transfer out of the water as he was offered a kings ransom to drop a league but wanted a much much higher pay packet (plus huge signing bonus) to do that to compensate for not playing Premier League Football...He is still at CP and in there first team or there abouts and was not prepared to lose that (premer legue football) over a huge pay packet on offer here and clearly made the right decision for him as he looked good recently....Herzberg/Maslow although pretty basic will help, look them up...  

The boy from Man U was the same did not want to play for a backwater football club like ours...We have to learn to break that cycle!....

There's more evidence to suggest he went where the money was.

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11748/9957949/brentfords-andre-gray-turns-down-bristol-city-move

It doesn't become a fact just because it was repeated on here a few times, we were closing in on the deal but the goal posts were moved when Burnley matched the fee and offered more in wages. There's no chance we were matching a team just relegated from the Premier League on wages or ambition.