From 'The Proud One' to 'The Redundant One'?

[spudski]

55 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

I'm pretty sure we've had two clean sheets in the last the last four games

We've also conceded 6 in those four games.

I get what you are implying though.

If Cotts can get the team to stop conceding goals and continue making chances consistently, then great...but if the situation comes where he goes, because we continue to struggle near the bottom of the league, then he can blame no one but himself.

In all seriousness though....there isn't a game where I watch and don't think we will concede.

[Curr Avon]

4 hours ago, spudski said:

We've also conceded 6 in those four games.

I get what you are implying though.

If Cotts can get the team to stop conceding goals and continue making chances consistently, then great...but if the situation comes where he goes, because we continue to struggle near the bottom of the league, then he can blame no one but himself.

In all seriousness though....there isn't a game where I watch and don't think we will concede.

Exactly. And its not necessarily the formation, but the tactics deployed within it. For example, last Saturday every time Ayling carried the ball over the half way line and was looking to pass to Bennett, he mostly passed towards the byline. However, Bennett was constantly pressed by his full back opponent, leaving him in a cul-de-sac and possession was lost. Several times Ayling was barely a yard from Bennett and the full back pressed, tackled and passed down the line, taking both players out of the game and leaving the left flank unguarded, resulting in the first and third goals. The centre backs can be far more conservative with their forward movement and they and the central midfielders should look to play the ball inside the full backs when the defence is static and their opponents are facing away from goal. When we don't keep the ball rolling in the final third its far too easy for the opposition to defend.

[spudski]

41 minutes ago, Curr Avon said:

Exactly. And its not necessarily the formation, but the tactics deployed within it. For example, last Saturday every time Ayling carried the ball over the half way line and was looking to pass to Bennett, he mostly passed towards the byline. However, Bennett was constantly pressed by his full back opponent, leaving him in a cul-de-sac and possession was lost. Several times Ayling was barely a yard from Bennett and the full back pressed, tackled and passed down the line, taking both players out of the game and leaving the left flank unguarded, resulting in the first and third goals. The centre backs can be far more conservative with their forward movement and they and the central midfielders should look to play the ball inside the full backs when the defence is static and their opponents are facing away from goal. When we don't keep the ball rolling in the final third its far too easy for the opposition to defend.

Spot on fella...I noticed that too.

Why both wing backs were hugging the touchline regardless of where the ball was on the pitch, confused me....very odd.

At times when going forward, we had a bank of five players that were virtually static.

One thing I liked about Cox when he came on, was he pressed high, then came for the ball. He created space and angles whilst doing so.

[Major Isewater]

19 hours ago, spudski said:

The difference being....I thought SoD could eventually take us forward with longevity. I don't with SC.

However...I always said...SoD's time had come when he left. His position had become untenable.

Imho....SC benefited from some of the work done by SoD, he continued that good work and got us promoted.

There is no reason why another manager could not come in, and continue the good work done by SC.

It's a game of opinions EMB....I personally don't think SC is the right man to take us forward....just my opinion.

New managers can take you to the next level.

Only yesterday....Claudio Ranieri 'benefiting from all Nigel Pearson's work', claimed West Brom boss Tony Pullis....look at Leicester now.

Certain managers know how to keep the ball rolling.


 

 

Are you saying we could benefit from Nigel Pearson's work ? 

 

[Major Isewater]

9 hours ago, havanatopia said:

 

 

13 hours ago, Bouncearoundtheground said:

Steve cotterill is a winner.

 

pipedown, have some faith. 

 

Then can we have our Steve Cotterill back then cos this other chap ain't up to much .

[spudski]

1 hour ago, Major Isewater said:

Are you saying we could benefit from Nigel Pearson's work ? 

 

Who knows mate...he's done well at other Clubs, but there are no guarantees that he would do well here. Choosing a manager is always an educated gamble.

If we are going to go down that route...if SC left, would we keep Burt on as Director of football?

Some managers like to work on their own. Would the next want to bring in his own coaching staff...etc,etc.

It's finding the right fit at the right time....so many different anomalies.

[BCFC Jimmer]

I think SC is seriously running out of time.  I would be amazed if he is still here in January if results don't improve.

Spudski, KITR and others have been spot on about SC for ages.  He makes some bizarre decisions, is terrible in front of a camera and doesn't seem to have what it takes to take us further.

Sad but true I'm afraid chaps.

[Major Isewater]

I think if RESULTS  don't improve between now and the end of the month he will be gone .

That leaves a new manager time to assess what's needed before the January transfer window.

i hope it does n't come to this but we can't afford to go straight back down and if what we're doing is n't working we must change it .

[BUTOR]

I'm just very confused as to why he's running out of time??

we're not in the relegation zone and we have a young team basically all new to the championship, do we want to go back to the dark days of overpaid mediocre journeymen who at best use 50% of their talent? 

What are the expectations here? I'm finding this a very exciting period for the club, we haven't had a drubbing like Fulham for about two years now so why the over reaction? 

Baffling.

[ciderup]

My concern with Cotts (I would love to see him succeed, by the way) is that he said, in an interview somewhere, that he wouldn't sacrifice our attacking style. In my limited opinion, that is exactly what we need to do to steady the ship regarding goals conceded. Sacrifice SOME attacking intent to keep the back door closed or certainly not as wide open as it has been at times this season.

Personally, I would rather we stayed in this division playing a slightly less adventurous style than drop back down playing as we are but that's just my opinion.

I do wonder if SC's supposed refusal to change from 'gung ho' to a more circumspect style might be his undoing?

[Esmond Million's Bung]

1 hour ago, Bouncearoundtheground said:

I'm just very confused as to why he's running out of time??

we're not in the relegation zone and we have a young team basically all new to the championship, do we want to go back to the dark days of overpaid mediocre journeymen who at best use 50% of their talent? 

What are the expectations here? I'm finding this a very exciting period for the club, we haven't had a drubbing like Fulham for about two years now so why the over reaction? 

Baffling.

I agree some of the comments are bizarre beyond belief, last season must stick in the craw of some people who didn't want him the first place, you could see it every time we didn't win last season, it gave them a little glimmer of hope and then you didn't see them for weeks on end, but this season they post a hell of a lot more.

[Kingswood Robin]

1 hour ago, Bouncearoundtheground said:

I'm just very confused as to why he's running out of time??

we're not in the relegation zone and we have a young team basically all new to the championship, do we want to go back to the dark days of overpaid mediocre journeymen who at best use 50% of their talent? 

What are the expectations here? I'm finding this a very exciting period for the club, we haven't had a drubbing like Fulham for about two years now so why the over reaction? 

Baffling.

Unfortunately, if we leave all our transfer business to January and we're near the bottom, that's just about all we'll be able to attract. It's such a shame that recruitment in the summer turned out to be such a shambles. I like the attacking formation and intent and if we had strengthened in a few key areas it could have been oh so different. He's clearly not happy with the situation and has frequently had a thinly veiled pop at the board about it.

I say give him a proper chance in the transfer window. If we go down attacking, so be it. I couldn't put up with that one up front crap we were subjected to, the last time we were in the championship.  

[Nogbad the Bad]

On 11/1/2015, 1:12:38, spudski said:

 

2 hours ago, Collis1 said:

I think SC is seriously running out of time.  I would be amazed if he is still here in January if results don't improve.

Spudski, KITR and others have been spot on about SC for ages.  He makes some bizarre decisions, is terrible in front of a camera and doesn't seem to have what it takes to take us further.

Sad but true I'm afraid chaps.

 

How exactly have these posters been 'spot on about SC for ages'?

You're naming 2 of the posters who notoriously savaged Cotts. in the first place and gave any number of unsubstantiated reasons to damn him with before he'd even put a team out on the pitch, and they've actually been proved to be emphatically wrong in just about every case.

Spot on indeed.

 

 

 

[Kid in the Riot]

30 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

How exactly have these posters been 'spot on about SC for ages'?

You're naming 2 of the posters who notoriously savaged Cotts. in the first place and gave any number of unsubstantiated reasons to damn him with before he'd even put a team out on the pitch, and they've actually been proved to be emphatically wrong in just about every case.

Spot on indeed.

You obviously didn't read Collis' next sentence, Nogbad. I assume those are the points Collis is saying he thinks I've been correct on. I've been pretty consistent on a number of issues with SC: the way he comes across in the media, bizzare substitutions, no plan-B, not well-liked within football, and I did actually say he would succeed at City in the short-term - granted he certainly exceeded expectations last season. Similar to spudski I have big doubts whether SC is the man to take us forward in this division but I'd certainly give him all of this season, if possible. We are not in a crisis by any means...yet.

I'd like to think my posts are pretty well-reasoned even if you don't happen to agree with all of them so I'm not sure where your claim of 'unsubstantiated reasons' comes from? Also, fail to see how my own views have been 'emphatically wrong' ?! It seems a growing number of City fans actually agree with me and I can tell you I know plenty of non-OTIB supporters who have thought these things about SC going back to last season - some have a far more extreme view on him than me!

[Lew-T]

I'd still give him until the rest of the season. Doesn't matter what you think of the guy, he's certainly earnt it. Results and performances of last season and 'some' this season has been a breathe of fresh air and exciting to watch. 

Bar Fulham and Reading, it hasn't fallen for us. 

[Robin1988]

I've questioned whether Spudski actually works in football in the past but all this kneejerk bollocks fits right in.

[spudski]

21 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

You obviously didn't read Collis' next sentence, Nogbad. I assume those are the points Collis is saying he thinks I've been correct on. I've been pretty consistent on a number of issues with SC: the way he comes across in the media, bizzare substitutions, no plan-B, not well-liked within football, and I did actually say he would succeed at City in the short-term - granted he certainly exceeded expectations last season. Similar to spudski I have big doubts whether SC is the man to take us forward in this division but I'd certainly give him all of this season, if possible. We are not in a crisis by any means...yet.

I'd like to think my posts are pretty well-reasoned even if you don't happen to agree with all of them so I'm not sure where your claim of 'unsubstantiated reasons' comes from? Also, fail to see how my own views have been 'emphatically wrong' ?! It seems a growing number of City fans actually agree with me and I can tell you I know plenty of non-OTIB supporters who have thought these things about SC going back to last season - some have a far more extreme view on him than me!

Can only concur with what you've said Kid...like I said to Noggers yesterday....I've always said Cotts would most likely get us up, but have said I don't think he's the manager to take us forward long term. True...I never wanted him here though.

5 minutes ago, Robin1988 said:

I've questioned whether Spudski actually works in football in the past but all this kneejerk bollocks fits right in.

What knee jerk bollox? I've never wanted the bloke here...if he goes imho it would be a good thing. And as for whether I've worked in football in the past....with respect, it's none of your business...in the same way I have no need to know what you do. I've spoken many times on here as to where I get any info from and what I base my views on...I'm not going over that again.

[Nogbad the Bad]

On 11/1/2015, 1:12:38, spudski said:

 

3 hours ago, Collis1 said:

I think SC is seriously running out of time.  I would be amazed if he is still here in January if results don't improve.

Spudski, KITR and others have been spot on about SC for ages.  He makes some bizarre decisions, is terrible in front of a camera and doesn't seem to have what it takes to take us further.

Sad but true I'm afraid chaps.

 

 

18 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

You obviously didn't read Collis' next sentence, Nogbad. I assume those are the points Collis is saying he thinks I've been correct on. I've been pretty consistent on a number of issues with SC: the way he comes across in the media, bizzare substitutions, no plan-B, not well-liked within football, and I did actually say he would succeed at City in the short-term - granted he certainly exceeded expectations last season. Similar to spudski I have big doubts whether SC is the man to take us forward in this division but I'd certainly give him all of this season, if possible. We are not in a crisis by any means...yet.

I'd like to think my posts are pretty well-reasoned even if you don't happen to agree with all of them so I'm not sure where your claim of 'unsubstantiated reasons' comes from? Also, fail to see how my own views have been 'emphatically wrong' ?! It seems a growing number of City fans actually agree with me and I can tell you I know plenty of non-OTIB supporters who have thought these things about SC going back to last season - some have a far more extreme view on him than me!

I did read his next sentence Kid, and I disagree with 2 of his points. The 3rd - ' he makes some bizarre decisions'? Well, that goes for every City manager I've ever known if you don't happen to share his view. I've long realised that I won't agree with every decision any City manager makes, that can be frustrating but doesn't make his decisions wrong. Whether that makes them bizarre or not depends if you have more information at your fingertips than he does, or think you know better.

Cotterill seems to get on remarkably well with his fellow managers in general, though after 20 years managing he's bound to have made a few enemies along the way. As for being 'terrible in front of the camera' it's codswallop, he came over very well on Sky recently for example.

I respect you as a poster, Kid, and the majority of your posts are indeed well reasoned, but you could hardly have got it more wrong over your initial Cotterill posts, and it's imposible to imagine you welcome a 3rd party coming on here intimating you were somehow right all along.

You can't rewrite history, or old posts on OTIB, I'm afraid.

[Robin1988]

53 minutes ago, spudski said:

What knee jerk bollox? I've never wanted the bloke here...if he goes imho it would be a good thing. And as for whether I've worked in football in the past....with respect, it's none of your business...in the same way I have no need to know what you do. I've spoken many times on here as to where I get any info from and what I base my views on...I'm not going over that again.

Genuine question, are you essentially saying part of the reason you're criticising him is because you don't like him?

[spudski]

1 minute ago, Robin1988 said:

Genuine question, are you essentially saying part of the reason you're criticising him is because you don't like him?

Not at all...it's because I don't think he's the manager to take us to the next level.

As for 'liking him'....I don't particularly warm to his manner...but that is neither here nor there.

If he proves me wrong....then so be it....not everyone has to 'like' the manager who runs the Club they support.

I appreciate he's done a good job the last two season....but I've always said he would most likely get us promotion, but then it turn sour.....that based on what others told me who worked at Burnley when he was there.

[MarcusX]

Anyone think there may be something going on behind the scenes? There must be a reason Agard isn't be used.

 

 

[Kibs]

It's unbelievable really. Most, including myself, thought we were getting a negative, defensive minded, direct manager (especially after reading the comments of fans from his previous clubs).

Now, our biggest problem is keeping the ball out of our own net and he seemingly can't recognise that, who'd have thought it!! Just thank your lucky stars that he keeps picking Wilbraham to keep all these goals out, imagine how many we'd have conceded otherwise!

Seriously though, if you concede goals in the numbers we have over the first 14 games, you very rarely survive. 

He has re-invented himself under City and some of the football I've seen us play over the last couple seasons is as good as it's been for me. I really hope he can find the right balance.

 

[Kibs]

4 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

Anyone think there may be something going on behind the scenes? There must be a reason Agard isn't be used.

 

 

Somethings gone on surely. After the Leeds game he couldn't praise Agard enough. The following game he brings on Burns up front instead of Agard and he's barely had a kick since. Bizarre. 

[Lanterne Rouge]

5 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

Anyone think there may be something going on behind the scenes? There must be a reason Agard isn't be used.

 

 

Something`s not right there for sure. I can see him going back to Rotherham in January now that fat boy`s gone. I heard tell he fell out with him and that was partly the reason he wanted away.

[Davefevs]

I think he's very loyal to the players he thinks are the best for the eleven.  Look at last season with JET.  Played him when we needed him due to injuries, rarely started afterwards.  Not one for sentiment is our manager.

Im sure this is a shit analogy, but when I was captain of my cricket club, which at club level is the cricketing equivalent of being a manager, i.e. you pick the team, decide the tactics (batting order, bowlers, fielding positions etc), you can end up continually picking players out of form because you think they are better than are in your second eleven, even sometimes without ever giving those second eleven players a real chance.  Most of the time your instincts are right, but sometimes they're not...and that's when you need a strong vice-captain or Pembo in the case of Cotts to remove the blinkers (and sheepskin noseband!!!) and challenge your decisions.

I've no idea the strengths of Pembo, and neither am I passing any blame onto him, but wonder how much they agree / disagree on certain decisions.  I can certainly believe Cotts is incredibly stubborn.

 I still want him to succeed.

[NickJ]

18 hours ago, Collis1 said:

I think SC is seriously running out of time.  I would be amazed if he is still here in January if results don't improve.

Spudski, KITR and others have been spot on about SC for ages.  He makes some bizarre decisions, is terrible in front of a camera and doesn't seem to have what it takes to take us further.

Sad but true I'm afraid chaps.

How has anyone who criticized Cotterill from day one been "spot on for ages"?

And which bizarre decisions did he make in taking us from the brink of Division 4 to champions with our biggest ever points total in 100 odd years, all within 18 months?

What was bizarre about recruiting an unknown striker who is probably already worth several times what we paid for him?

I like his interviews he is honest - what is "terrible" about Cotterrill in front of camera?

 

There are a lot of people on here who are just waiting for Cottrill to fail, just so they can say they were right - which of course one day they will be. I think some people should swallow their pride and admit that their comments about Cotterill when he was appointed were wrong.

 

 

[BCFC Jimmer]

1 minute ago, NickJ said:

How has anyone who criticized Cotterill from day one been "spot on for ages"?

And which bizarre decisions did he make in taking us from the brink of Division 4 to champions with our biggest ever points total in 100 odd years, all within 18 months?

What was bizarre about recruiting an unknown striker who is probably already worth several times what we paid for him?

I like his interviews he is honest - what is "terrible" about Cotterrill in front of camera?

 

There are a lot of people on here who are just waiting for Cottrill to fail, just so they can say they were right - which of course one day they will be. I think some people should swallow their pride and admit that their comments about Cotterill when he was appointed were wrong.

There is nothing wrong with people pointing out negative aspects of his role - Afterall, surely its our purpose as fans to not blindly support a manager who is danger of taking us backwards.  The posters we are talking about have not blindly attacked him but they have been very constructive with their criticism so I find it hard to understand how you can find their comments unacceptable.

I have found myself agreeing with them from pretty much day one.  Don't be offended or critise my opinion but I have never really connected with him, find him quite unlikable and have a strong feeling that he won't be able to take us any further up the footballing ladder.  That doesn't mean to say I won't be proved wrong but it sounds like there are many fans who feel the same way.

[WolfOfWestStreet]

Why does every manage have to have "the....one" type of nickname? 

we don't half blow smoke up these managers asses. 

[NickJ]

29 minutes ago, Collis1 said:

There is nothing wrong with people pointing out negative aspects of his role - Afterall, surely its our purpose as fans to not blindly support a manager who is danger of taking us backwards.  The posters we are talking about have not blindly attacked him but they have been very constructive with their criticism so I find it hard to understand how you can find their comments unacceptable.

I have found myself agreeing with them from pretty much day one.  Don't be offended or critise my opinion but I have never really connected with him, find him quite unlikable and have a strong feeling that he won't be able to take us any further up the footballing ladder.  That doesn't mean to say I won't be proved wrong but it sounds like there are many fans who feel the same way.

Something like 80% of City supporters were against the appointment of Cotterill before and immediately after he was appointed. Many made very derogatory comments.

Fast forward a few months and the majority of those have publically admitted they were wrong.

However a dogged few who like to think they know better than anyone else, including experts inside the game, will never accept Cotterill because it means admitting they were wrong.

Comments such as yours "I don't think he can take us any forward", which is also a particular favourite of Spudski and a couple of others, aren't very insightful because chances are that there are very few managers who would be capable of taking us any further forward, and nobody could possibly predict who those might be.

Despite the fact we are getting dicked - scoreline wise - every other game I am enjoying the football which is several light years ahead of what we endured under the previous manager. You don't have to like the manager to enjoy his brand of football.

Debating performances of the players and the decisions of the manager are one thing, but sweeping statements such as he makes bizarre decisions are in themselves bizarre.

Suggesting that one of the most successful managers we have ever had should or could be sacked - don't know about you but plenty have - barely a quarter of the way into the season is just ridiculous. He may well have made mistakes, who doesn't, but I very much hope SL evaluates whether Cotterill will get it right, which this season will simply mean staying in the division. If we achieve that playing the quality and style of football - admittedly not defending - which we have, I for one will be ecstatic.

 

[Major Isewater]

1 hour ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

Why does every manage have to have "the....one" type of nickname? 

we don't half blow smoke up these managers asses. 

For us Pulis was " the Wrong One ".