From 'The Proud One' to 'The Redundant One'?

[glynriley]

3 hours ago, spudski said:

I had faith in what SoD was doing, but knew his time was up when he went.

 

Nope, you actually called it "A massive mistake by the Club"

Why say that if you knew his time was up?

[Esmond Million's Bung]

7 hours ago, Olé said:

Perhaps the Proud One and the Special One are inextricably linked?

 

01/11/2014

Bristol City W10 D6 L0 F33 A17 (first)
Chelsea W8 D2 L0 F26 A10 (first)

01/11/2015

Bristol City W2 D5 L7 F16 A26 (fourth from bottom)
Chelsea W3 D2 L6 F16 A22 (sixth from bottom)

The difference is the special one seems to have lost the dressing room + popular medical staff, SC has not.

 

[spudski]

1 hour ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

You can't have it both ways, one of your major criticisms was being to quick to sack managers and the scandalous turn over of managers when SOD was sacked.

 

The difference being....I thought SoD could eventually take us forward with longevity. I don't with SC.

However...I always said...SoD's time had come when he left. His position had become untenable.

Imho....SC benefited from some of the work done by SoD, he continued that good work and got us promoted.

There is no reason why another manager could not come in, and continue the good work done by SC.

It's a game of opinions EMB....I personally don't think SC is the right man to take us forward....just my opinion.

New managers can take you to the next level.

Only yesterday....Claudio Ranieri 'benefiting from all Nigel Pearson's work', claimed West Brom boss Tony Pullis....look at Leicester now.

Certain managers know how to keep the ball rolling.


 

 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

14 minutes ago, spudski said:

The difference being....I thought SoD could eventually take us forward with longevity. I don't with SC.

However...I always said...SoD's time had come when he left. His position had become untenable.

Imho....SC benefited from some of the work done by SoD, he continued that good work and got us promoted.

There is no reason why another manager could not come in, and continue the good work done by SC.

It's a game of opinions EMB....I personally don't think SC is the right man to take us forward....just my opinion.

New managers can take you to the next level.

Only yesterday....Claudio Ranieri 'benefiting from all Nigel Pearson's work', claimed West Brom boss Tony Pullis....look at Leicester now.

Certain managers know how to keep the ball rolling.


 

 

and you believe under your let's give managers time, let's stop this ridiculous hiring and firing every 2 years, he's had a fair chance?.

You are correct about SOD to a degree, like some of the background stuff at the academy and some of his signings and there it stops, he has had his plaudits and cannot be used in this discussion, the point is you are now abandoning the main thrust that annoyed you about SOD's sacking.

 

[spudski]

4 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

and you believe under your let's give managers time, let's stop this ridiculous hiring and firing every 2 years, he's had a fair chance?.

You are correct about SOD to a degree, like some of the background stuff at the academy and some of his signings and there it stops, he has had his plaudits and cannot be used in this discussion, the point is you are now abandoning the main thrust that annoyed you about SOD's sacking.

 

Not at all fella... I believe in giving managers a fair chance if I believe they are the right manager to take us forward long term.

I never have done with SC.

I'd rather see him gone and someone else come in, rather than wait another season, and find he kept us up, but we go stagnant....then replace.

It also depends on who we replace him with.

Just my opinion....something every owner has to decide on and not just talk about on a forum.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

1 minute ago, spudski said:

Not at all fella... I believe in giving managers a fair chance if I believe they are the right manager to take us forward long term.

I never have done with SC.

I'd rather see him gone and someone else come in, rather than wait another season, and find he kept us up, but we go stagnant....then replace.

It also depends on who we replace him with.

Just my opinion....something every owner has to decide on and not just talk about on a forum.

A bit of honesty at last.

 

[spudski]

1 minute ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

A bit of honesty at last.

 

I've always said he's not the manager to take us forward....so i'm not sure where you're coming from.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

2 minutes ago, spudski said:

I've always said he's not the manager to take us forward....so i'm not sure where you're coming from.

You said "I never have done with SC".

Which implies that you had that view from day one.

[spudski]

1 minute ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

You said "I never have done with SC".

Which implies that you had that view from day one.

I think we are going over old ground here fella. I've always said I've never thought SC to be the manager to take us forward long term.

I remember saying on here, that from speaking to people who worked at Burnley when he was their, that they said he would keep us up from league 1 and probably get us promotion, but then it will eventually turn sour. We'll the first two points have been proven right, and the third point has yet to be proven.

I've alway's said I didn't want SC here for long term.

I personally don't think he's the manager to take us forward long term....have always said that....from day one.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

5 minutes ago, spudski said:

I think we are going over old ground here fella. I've always said I've never thought SC to be the manager to take us forward long term.

I remember saying on here, that from speaking to people who worked at Burnley when he was their, that they said he would keep us up from league 1 and probably get us promotion, but then it will eventually turn sour. We'll the first two points have been proven right, and the third point has yet to be proven.

I've alway's said I didn't want SC here for long term.

I personally don't think he's the manager to take us forward long term....have always said that....from day one.

Be careful what you wish for, I can see Pemberton taking over for a few games, winning a couple and getting the job, that is the BCFC way. That's how got lumbered with Tinnion and Millen.

 

 

[spudski]

1 minute ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Be careful what you wish for, I can see Pemberton taking over for a few games, winning a couple and getting the job, that is the BCFC way.

 

haha...true...anything could happen at this Club.

But all joking aside...we both want what's best for the Club.

I hate watching us lose...I only hope we don't get relegated.

Whoever is in charge, we all still get behind the lads on a match day.

At least it's never boring ;-)

[cottsciderarmy]

One bad game doesn't mean we should sack him. Some fans are too fickle it's unreal. I have my doubts Cotts is the right man to take us forward and have said if we were struggling by Xmas he should be relieved of his duties but against Forest, Brighton (to an extent) and Cardiff we have played good enough football not to get relegated. 

Also if fans want him gone, who exactly do you think will come in and keep us up and progress to be competitive in this league. Yes Cotts reluctance to find a plan B or change the formation or introduce subs is frustrating but I've seen enough to suggest we won't go down this season and we should stick with him and give him the January window. If we aren't comfortably 12th-17th this season which we should be with the players we have, then we should look to bring someone in, in the summer who can build on what we have. But our performances haven't been bad and we've looked better than a few teams in a similar position to us and I don't think we'll go down.

[Frenchay Red]

32 minutes ago, spudski said:

 

I hate watching us lose

 

I have some bad news for you. Following this club for any length of time will dull your senses to this.

Oh and last year was rather unusual, very unusual.

Which of course makes it even more puzzling why you want rid of the only manager who has brought both flair and success, to our basket case of a club, for a very long time. :-)

[eardun]

I said this in another thread: 'I have heard it said that this season feels like the John Ward season when we were relegated immediately. Well Ward was replaced with Benny mid season and we know how that ended up. I think if we stick with SC, we have a better chance of staying up than if we replace him. There is no evidence that the squad is not still with him as they were last season. I think SC will get more out of this squad than anyone else. Yes we need to strengthen in January. Yes we need to tighten up and cut out mistakes. Yes we need to take more of our chances. But it is no great surprise to be losing to the likes of Fulham performing to their max.' I also feel we are playing far better than in previous relegation seasons.

[spudski]

17 minutes ago, Frenchay Red said:

I have some bad news for you. Following this club for any length of time will dull your senses to this.

Oh and last year was rather unusual, very unusual.

Which of course makes it even more puzzling why you want rid of the only manager who has brought both flair and success, to our basket case of a club, for a very long time. :-)

haha...I like your reasoning FR....most awesome :-)

I've followed this Club all my life, so have seen it all.

I however, can't get over enthused at winning league 1....however enjoyable the season was.

I look forward to a manager who can get us sustained success in this league and the Prem.

Personally I don't think SC is that man...but if he proves me wrong, so be it.

18 minutes ago, eardun said:

I said this in another thread: 'I have heard it said that this season feels like the John Ward season when we were relegated immediately. Well Ward was replaced with Benny mid season and we know how that ended up. I think if we stick with SC, we have a better chance of staying up than if we replace him. There is no evidence that the squad is not still with him as they were last season. I think SC will get more out of this squad than anyone else. Yes we need to strengthen in January. Yes we need to tighten up and cut out mistakes. Yes we need to take more of our chances. But it is no great surprise to be losing to the likes of Fulham performing to their max.' I also feel we are playing far better than in previous relegation seasons.

Benny was brought in to help Ward...not to replace. Ward walked. He asked for help as he had run out of ideas. Funnily, yesterdays programme had a full two pages about that season and a nice pic of Benny....I found it very apt.

Many thought SC wasn't the man to take us forward after SoD....but he did.

No reason another manager couldn't come in an reignite our performances. We have lost all momentum from last season. The players body language looks down....and it has done the last few weeks.

[eardun]

8 minutes ago, spudski said:

haha...I like your reasoning FR....most awesome :-)

I've followed this Club all my life, so have seen it all.

I however, can't get over enthused at winning league 1....however enjoyable the season was.

I look forward to a manager who can get us sustained success in this league and the Prem.

Personally I don't think SC is that man...but if he proves me wrong, so be it.

Benny was brought in to help Ward...not to replace. Ward walked. He asked for help as he had run out of ideas. Funnily, yesterdays programme had a full two pages about that season and a nice pic of Benny....I found it very apt.

Many thought SC wasn't the man to take us forward after SoD....but he did.

No reason another manager couldn't come in an reignite our performances. We have lost all momentum from last season. The players body language looks down....and it has done the last few weeks.

Yes but for whatever reason Ward left and Benny replaced him. It didn't help. On the whole, I don't see the players looking especially down. They performed really well only 6 days ago. In fact I have been surprised how well they have played in matches this season given the lack of wins. So SC must be doing something right to keep their confidence up generally. Clearly shipping 4 goals quickly is going to get you a bit down though! Doesn't meant they I'll be down on Tues or Sat though.

[Lanterne Rouge]

Probably a bit of siege mentality kicking in by now. We know they`re a close group and it must be a bit `us against the world`.

[Son of Fred]

On 31/10/2015 20:10:30, kivsy said:

Pride comes before a fall ...

Its not the falling that gets you...........

[Curr Avon]

57 minutes ago, spudski said:

haha...I like your reasoning FR....most awesome :-)

I've followed this Club all my life, so have seen it all.

I however, can't get over enthused at winning league 1....however enjoyable the season was.

I look forward to a manager who can get us sustained success in this league and the Prem.

Personally I don't think SC is that man...but if he proves me wrong, so be it.

Benny was brought in to help Ward...not to replace. Ward walked. He asked for help as he had run out of ideas. Funnily, yesterdays programme had a full two pages about that season and a nice pic of Benny....I found it very apt.

Many thought SC wasn't the man to take us forward after SoD....but he did.

No reason another manager couldn't come in an reignite our performances. We have lost all momentum from last season. The players body language looks down....and it has done the last few weeks.

John Ward wanted to bring in the late Ray Harford as assistant manager, but the City board said no. Lennartson was only ever meant to be the Director of Football.

For me, Cotterill's refusal to change a losing team after half time on Saturday was the straw that broke the camel's back.

He is partly responsible for our failure in the transfer market to bolster a squad with a better platform than Johnson's side in 07/08, and like you say, all the momentum has been lost.

 

[BS4 on Tour...]

2 hours ago, cottsciderarmy said:

One bad game doesn't mean we should sack him. Some fans are too fickle it's unreal. I have my doubts Cotts is the right man to take us forward and have said if we were struggling by Xmas he should be relieved of his duties but against Forest, Brighton (to an extent) and Cardiff we have played good enough football not to get relegated. 

Also if fans want him gone, who exactly do you think will come in and keep us up and progress to be competitive in this league. Yes Cotts reluctance to find a plan B or change the formation or introduce subs is frustrating but I've seen enough to suggest we won't go down this season and we should stick with him and give him the January window. If we aren't comfortably 12th-17th this season which we should be with the players we have, then we should look to bring someone in, in the summer who can build on what we have. But our performances haven't been bad and we've looked better than a few teams in a similar position to us and I don't think we'll go down.

It's not just one bad game.

If Steve Lansdown loses patience and decides we need a change then we could do a lot worse than Nigel Pearson. He has taken teams up from league one as champions and from the championship as champions.

I would have also said Sam Allardyce as he has taken two clubs up to the premier from the championship and established them in the level above but he's now got a job.

I've said on here before that, in the same way players reach their level, managers do too. And I just don't get why clubs tell players they aren't good enough for a higher level when they win promotion, but they don't do the same with managers.

No room for sentiment in this game unfortunately. Chelsea got rid of Di Matteo after he won the champions league, Southampton got rid of Nigel Adkins soon after they reached the premier league, Leicester got rid of Pearson after he kept them in the premier league (and look at them now) and Stoke parted company with Pulis, and Hughes has transformed the way they play and they are signing players they could only have dreamed about a while ago.

My point is that looking at Cotts' record he is a fine league one manager and a seemingly ok-ish Championship boss. He kept Burnley in this division but the guy after him took them up to the premier league.

Clubs first look to change players when they want to progress quickly after promotions, it would have taken a very brave SL to say 'thanks Cotts for an incredible season but we need to really kick on in the Championship so we are going to look at another manager...' - should he have done it? I guess the majority would say no. But what will they say if we slip back down to where we came from with a lovely new stadium?

Football is a tough business with little room for sentiment or looking back..do we want to struggle or really kick on?

 

 

[spudski]

17 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

It's not just one bad game.

If Steve Lansdown loses patience and decides we need a change then we could do a lot worse than Nigel Pearson. He has taken teams up from league one as champions and from the championship as champions.

I would have also said Sam Allardyce as he has taken two clubs up to the premier from the championship and established them in the level above but he's now got a job.

I've said on here before that, in the same way players reach their level, managers do too. And I just don't get why clubs tell players they aren't good enough for a higher level when they win promotion, but they don't do the same with managers.

No room for sentiment in this game unfortunately. Chelsea got rid of Di Matteo after he won the champions league, Southampton got rid of Nigel Adkins soon after they reached the premier league, Leicester got rid of Pearson after he kept them in the premier league (and look at them now) and Stoke parted company with Pulis, and Hughes has transformed the way they play and they are signing players they could only have dreamed about a while ago.

My point is that looking at Cotts' record he is a fine league one manager and a seemingly ok-ish Championship boss. He kept Burnley in this division but the guy after him took them up to the premier league.

Clubs first look to change players when they want to progress quickly after promotions, it would have taken a very brave SL to say 'thanks Cotts for an incredible season but we need to really kick on in the Championship so we are going to look at another manager...' - should he have done it? I guess the majority would say no. But what will they say if we slip back done to where we came from with a lovely new stadium?

Football is a tough business with little room for sentiment or looking back..do we want to struggle or really kick on?

 

 

Fantastic post...spot on.

[Davefevs]

@BS4 on Tour... agree with @spudski it is a good post.

Just assuming Cotts is relieved of his duties (not something I want personally), do you think there would be any hope of getting Pearson?  I think he'd wait for a much bigger Champ side than us.

I think this season has really highlighted where Bristol City is on the football map. There was a survey recently saying the average position of City over the last X number of years was 41st I think, i.e. 21st in the second tier.

We haven't been in the top tier for yonks, and have only threatened getting there once in that period.  We aren't even a big club in this tier.

That is not to say we can't progress....and some might look at City as a side with huge potential.

[BS4 on Tour...]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

@BS4 on Tour... agree with @spudski it is a good post.

Just assuming Cotts is relieved of his duties (not something I want personally), do you think there would be any hope of getting Pearson?  I think he'd wait for a much bigger Champ side than us.

I think this season has really highlighted where Bristol City is on the football map. There was a survey recently saying the average position of City over the last X number of years was 41st I think, i.e. 21st in the second tier.

We haven't been in the top tier for yonks, and have only threatened getting there once in that period.  We aren't even a big club in this tier.

That is not to say we can't progress....and some might look at City as a side with huge potential.

Well Pearson seemed happy to win league one with Leicester and then the championship with the Foxes...so why wouldn't he come here?

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Well Pearson seemed happy to win league one with Leicester and then the championship with the Foxes...so why wouldn't he come here?

Fair comment, but Leicester is a bigger club than us I'm sad to say....and his stock is far higher than it was in his earlier years when he went there, as well as a pretty decent playing career.

I do think he'd be a good choice though, should we replace Cotts. On the downside, I think he's had some extensive media training, that makes him come across a little weird.  

[Nogbad the Bad]

9 hours ago, spudski said:

SC is the 27th longest serving manager in the English football league. There is a long list of managers below him.

I understand any Club wants stability....it makes sense. But football has a constant turn over of managers in general, so your reasoning that no manager would want to come here makes no sense at all....look at Leeds....and yet still managers go their. It's part of football.

I had faith in what SoD was doing, but knew his time was up when he went.

I really don't understand your reasoning of 'doing the dirty' on Cotts.

He achieved promotion from League 1....fantastic....great job. But right now, he's got 11 points from a possible 42....and conceding goals like it's going out of fashion.

He refuses to budge on his principles of playing a certain way....other managers in this Division see it and even comment about it.

Pretty much everyone in football can see it....apart from him.

Sometimes blind faith in something, shows you are pig headed and will cut off your nose to spite your face, rather than admit you are wrong and try to change things.

We look great going forward...but football is about defending as well. We don't do that very well using SC's system.

The players are playing under his instructions...they are good enough to be mid table imho, but SC's tactics are clearly not working....if they were we wouldn't be where we are now.

SC has every opportunity to put things right...but I think your loved one will fall on his own sword....he's that stubborn.

 

My loved one? WTF is that all about?

Coming from SO'D's most ardent and persistent personal admirer it's particularly ironic coming from you, as well as being downright weird.

For your information we don't all fall head over heels in love with City managers mate. 

 

[Lew-T]

On 31 October 2015 20:19:27, spudski said:

Without being pedantic...it's not really our players fault....SC is stubborn and refuses to budge on his belief.

Find this comment a little odd. This squad played very well under SC and his formation last season. They know what they're doing by now and are professional footballers! 

They should take the majority of the responsibility because that first half display was abysmal. They just haven't performed well enough and consistently

[BUTOR]

Steve cotterill is a winner.

 

pipedown, have some faith. 

[spudski]

45 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

My loved one? WTF is that all about?

Coming from SO'D's most ardent and persistent personal admirer it's particularly ironic coming from you, as well as being downright weird.

For your information we don't all fall head over heels in love with City managers mate. 

 

Blimey...just throwing in a bit of humour that obviously flew over your head mate...was being ironic and actually taking the piss out of myself...as your posts remind me of myself backing SoD...obviously lost on you...never mind.

 

40 minutes ago, Lew-T said:

Find this comment a little odd. This squad played very well under SC and his formation last season. They know what they're doing by now and are professional footballers! 

They should take the majority of the responsibility because that first half display was abysmal. They just haven't performed well enough and consistently

Difference being it's a massive step up to this league. Playing with the majority of same players. No experience at this level apart from Wilbs...no leader marshalling midfield and a mainly inexperienced defence at this level. Add to the fact, the loanees are all having to learn new methods of playing to Cotts style...as most have said in their interviews.

You can't blame the players....the manager picks them week in week out....and they play under his instruction.

[havanatopia]

I would rather we didn't go down the Nigel Pearson route, thank you very much. The man is an offensive, overly arrogant, bully boy with a penchant for belittling people out of all necessary context. Sort of the English version of that Iti bloke who managed Swindle who's name escapes me, fortunately.

Moreover, I am more than happy with Cotts and long may that continue.

[AshtonGreat]

17 hours ago, spudski said:

SC is the 27th longest serving manager in the English football league. There is a long list of managers below him.

I understand any Club wants stability....it makes sense. But football has a constant turn over of managers in general, so your reasoning that no manager would want to come here makes no sense at all....look at Leeds....and yet still managers go their. It's part of football.

I had faith in what SoD was doing, but knew his time was up when he went.

I really don't understand your reasoning of 'doing the dirty' on Cotts.

He achieved promotion from League 1....fantastic....great job. But right now, he's got 11 points from a possible 42....and conceding goals like it's going out of fashion.

He refuses to budge on his principles of playing a certain way....other managers in this Division see it and even comment about it.

Pretty much everyone in football can see it....apart from him.

Sometimes blind faith in something, shows you are pig headed and will cut off your nose to spite your face, rather than admit you are wrong and try to change things.

We look great going forward...but football is about defending as well. We don't do that very well using SC's system.

The players are playing under his instructions...they are good enough to be mid table imho, but SC's tactics are clearly not working....if they were we wouldn't be where we are now.

SC has every opportunity to put things right...but I think your loved one will fall on his own sword....he's that stubborn.

 

I'm pretty sure we've had two clean sheets in the last the last four games