England v Spain Thread

[cityexile]

3 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

I know what your saying, but Walker was coming back from playing the ball back to Hart from near our byline when Pedro? ( the player whose coming back ) plays it. Definitely keeping him onside.

Ah, ok, missed him. Well beaten really. Thought our shooting was poor, and so want Stirling to do it at an international level, but seems to run in to dead ends and final ball so often poor. Pretty sure he gave the ball away for their first goal.

[Super]

2 minutes ago, cityexile said:

Ah, ok, missed him. Well beaten really. Thought our shooting was poor, and so want Stirling to do it at an international level, but seems to run in to dead ends and final ball so often poor. Pretty sure he gave the ball away for their first goal.

Yep then didn't track the right back.

[marshy]

36 minutes ago, Oops said:

Sterling is embarrassing 

One of the most clueless players I've ever seen in an England shirt, and I go back to the '58 World Cup.

Having said that we could add a few to the list that are nowhere near the standard required at the top level of international football.

Walker, how many times did he let a man run in behind him?

Delph, can't see what he offers to the team

Carrick, I've been a big fan but sadly way off the pace now.

Sterling, see above.

Lallana, lightweight.

Kane, sadly not yet good enough, ponderous. (Walcott no. 9 for me if only he could stay injury free).

Barkley might make it one day but he's no Bobby Charlton.

Alli, much too early for him, should be with the U21s (Dier might make it one day though..tidy player)

Hart, his distribution is dreadful.

Only players to emerge with any credit Smalling and Bertrand.

Thank God we were in an easy qualifying group.

Oh, and I forgot to mention Hodgson...clueless.

[robin_unreliant]

Sterling reminds me of Junior Bent. England are a bang average team who can't compete with teams in the top 8 in the world. Anyone who thinks we can is delusional. For years the lack of ability to hold the ball has been obvious but we do nothing about it. Have lost any faith or interest in them for a few years now and it seems it will continue to get worse when you watch the U21s.

[Mad Cyril]

48 minutes ago, Super said:

Away goal count?

Irrelevant. When the Micks make the playoffs, goals after basketball dribbling count. Blatter you dog.

[Mad Cyril]

1 hour ago, WhistleHappy said:

Did that Spanish bloke on the stadium Tannoy just put out a call for Mr Ashton? ...

 

....

You do know that is code for all stewards to the crappers? Some animal is doing his dirty protest thing. 

Christ, after what he did at Ashton Gate why the hell didn't they seize his passport?

[BS4 on Tour...]

1 hour ago, Oops said:

Sterling is embarrassing 

Wot the same Sterling who was on £35k a week at Liverpool and decided at his tender age that the new contract offer of £100k a week just wasn't enough, because he is sooooo good?!

Surely not?!

[Welcome To The Jungle]

3 hours ago, robin_unreliant said:

Sterling reminds me of Junior Bent. England are a bang average team who can't compete with teams in the top 8 in the world. Anyone who thinks we can is delusional. For years the lack of ability to hold the ball has been obvious but we do nothing about it. Have lost any faith or interest in them for a few years now and it seems it will continue to get worse when you watch the U21s.

http://www.bookmakers1.com/greece2004winners.jpg

[Club and Country]

6 hours ago, The Gasbuster said:

I wouldn't disagree with you, but who do we replace him with ?

Some people, (I'm not one of them), believe we should have an English manager.

Well, in the Premier League, there are now just four of them :

Pardew, Pulis (!), McClaren & Howe.

The only one I would consider suitable would be Howe, and that would be in around 5 years time, after he has proven himself in the P.L.

When you put it like that it's incredibly scary and no wonder we struggle 

[Shtanley]

Second string England side losing 2-0 thanks to a stunner and a lapse in concentration, they only had 2 shots on target. Nothing to get upset about. Don't think Carrick and Lallana should be playing though 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Rob k said:

Agreed, Kane had a poor game

His finishing was poor. But his overall play was very good I thought. On another night he could have got a hat trick. Of course if he continues to miss chances then he should be dropped but his general play was very encouraging.

[archie andrews]

3 hours ago, Shtanley said:

Second string England side losing 2-0 thanks to a stunner and a lapse in concentration, they only had 2 shots on target. Nothing to get upset about. Don't think Carrick and Lallana should be playing though 

second string/first string......we're shite at best shtan so get used to it

[I am the mole]

Just read Terry Venables match ratings and I know some people will claim that because he's been a professional in the game for decades he knows more about it but what game was he watching last night apart from carrick 6.5 and Barkley 6 he gave everyone else 7 and 8s! 

I realise while they didn't penetrate enough they were comfortable enough and we're can't compete  against the top teams we can't retain possession and aren't that effective on the counter attack! 

We are bound to make it out of group though next year due to the crazy way uefa have scheduled it next year we might even make the quarters which will mask our shiteness and lack of technical skills! 

 

[The Bard]

13 hours ago, cider-manc said:

Walker is a liability.  Glenn Johnson Mk 2.

he's not that good!

[Guest]

2 hours ago, I am the mole said:

Just read Terry Venables match ratings and I know some people will claim that because he's been a professional in the game for decades he knows more about it but what game was he watching last night apart from carrick 6.5 and Barkley 6 he gave everyone else 7 and 8s! 

I realise while they didn't penetrate enough they were comfortable enough and we're can't compete  against the top teams we can't retain possession and aren't that effective on the counter attack! 

We are bound to make it out of group though next year due to the crazy way uefa have scheduled it next year we might even make the quarters which will mask our shiteness and lack of technical skills! 

 

I thought we played well. They were always gonna keep the ball better that's just the way they play. Same happened when English teams have beaten the likes of Barcelona in the past, possession isnt everything. We created many counter attacking opportunities. I think the problem was we got a bit too adventurous and gave them too much space on the first goal and then we were poor after that. When we got players behind the ball, they did not really create much.

[EstoniaTallinnRed]

14 hours ago, Bs4Red said:

I don't understand the reasoning behind the starting line up tonight. 

We knew we had qualified long ago and had games against Estonia, Lithuania and San Marino. Why didn't we experiment against those teams? Potentially our toughest test before euros and we are experimenting. 

Win or lose tonight, would this 11 start the first game of the euros? I highly doubt it.

I was at that game here in Tallinn and England were rubbish, they only won it due to a dubious free kick that Rooney scored from and that was after Estonia went down to ten men. a reasonably good England team should have hammered Estonia.

[22A]

At half time I though England appeared to be the better team. In the 2nd the Spaniards simply upped their game leaving too many English players looking clueless.

When one of our guys had the ball, they tried dribbling though a group of opponents rather than pass. Spain frequently had two or even three tackle at a time when they realised this and consequently won the ball. No need for man to man marking.

[Lanterne Rouge]

3 minutes ago, 22A said:

At half time I though England appeared to be the better team. In the 2nd the Spaniards simply upped their game leaving too many English players looking clueless.

When one of our guys had the ball, they tried dribbling though a group of opponents rather than pass. Spain frequently had two or even three tackle at a time when they realised this and consequently won the ball. No need for man to man marking.

Was Luke Freeman playing then?

[Turbored]

Hodgson must go...We stand no chance of winning anything with him in charge. Still don't know his best 11 , last night he setup for a draw at best and not a chance in hell of scoring a goal.

I said about 18 months ago or so when Moores was in charge of the cricket team that English football and cricket will never get anywhere with those two muppets in charge , Moores was sacked we won the Ashes and Cook is scoring runs again. We just got to get rid of Hodgson now, he should of been sacked after that WC shambles.

[Shtanley]

We had more chances and shots than Spain and we were awful with our reserve team. With Wilshere Henderson Stones Cahill Shaw Clyne Rooney all starting I'm fairly confident we would have won that game.

[steveybadger]

18 hours ago, Donkeeebles said:

That 2nd goal just sums up why it's been depressing to watch for me. Won the ball, nowhere to go, nobody wants the ball judging by the way a couple of them were pointing back to Hart so it's given to him to just hoof clear. Sorry but until we learn to keep better possession of the ball against the better teams we will always be also rans Imo 

This times infinity. Until we coach kids to do this and not 'get stuck in' and all that bolox, we will never ever get close to, let alone win a major tournament.

[RedRock]

On 14 November 2015 at 15:08:04, Shtanley said:

We had more chances and shots than Spain and we were awful with our reserve team. With Wilshere Henderson Stones Cahill Shaw Clyne Rooney all starting I'm fairly confident we would have won that game.

If Henderson's the answer, **** knows what the question is !! One of many obscenely paid, extremely average, injury prone lightweights that make up the 'cream' of the English football nation. 

We are not in the same class as Spain, Germany and the likes. Take at least another 5 generations for us to develop a 'European  Game' by which time the rest would have moved on. So, about time the FA realised mentally and skill-wise we just can't cut it with the top teams, stop wasting £millions on coaching the uncoachable, move on and develop a new style of high tempo, aggressive, pressing, power game playing more to our traditional 'strengths'.

On that basis we could fluke some results against top sides and may even win something. If Greece can, so can we and at least it'll be more fun to watch.

[Cowshed]

Moor2Sea Its a lack of quality coaching that is at the core of Englands problems. Iceland has a more rational approach to coaching than England does.England needs to spend more money on coaching, not less. At present England gets its arse handed to it by nations who spend more money on national frameworks of coaches, allied to skill syllabuses and standards.

What are these traditional strengths you refer to? Chucking it in the air? Pomo?

A high tempo, aggressive, pressing, power game will still lose v the Gernans and Spanish unless its allied to technique and organisation, and that comes from quality intensive coaching.

[RedRock]

Yes, but I've heard the excuses for decades. Always, tomorrow. It never happens.

We're going backwards not forwards. Frankly, most of our play and some of the individual performances ranked as embarrassing. 

Can't think 'man for man' of a much worse England team ever than that against Spain. People then say, don't worry, the next new generation - Henderson, Shaw and the like - will be our saviours. 

Nah. Time for a complete change in direction. 

As a side note, was in Portugal in the summer. Watched a youth knock-about game involving one of our waiter's. Skill levels were fantastic. Spoke to him after - never been coached, just played on the streets and in school yards. They're gifted - whether it's climate or cultural enhanced I don't know. Generalisation accepted but we ain't 'naturally' gifted and coaching imho makes little difference. 

[Cowshed]

No such thing as naturally gifted. None at all apart from more fast twitch fibres being blessed upon individuals at birth.

Climate is an advantage, but it is no excuse for a rich football nation to be not coaching kids correctly. How are young kids going to spend the necessary time with a football unsupervised in streets filled with cars for hours every week? No parent would do that, but that is what is being done nationally in Spain with coaching supervision. There kids are getting four, five six hours a week in front of coaches who are working to standards that will hone that technique, it is not natural, it is down to hard work.

Spanish kids are getting coaching sessions where the drills are designed to ensure kids touch the ball thousands of time sin session. Technique is drilled in. Here kids won't touch a ball thousands of times in a month let alone in one session, which occurs three, four times a week.

Time for a complete change in direction .. There it is above.The Germans do similar as well. England has not for decades.

[RedRock]

I'll tell you what.

I'll ask the FA to put you on the 'complete review of everything' panel after our team's highly predictable abject failure in the forthcoming 2016 Euro's. 

Then, in 2018 after the likely pathetic performance in the World Cup,  having suffered a lifetime of these post competition panels and subsequent coaching 'revolutions', can I then have my own way and do a 'root and branch' reform of the English Football scene?  

Only proviso is you don't appoint SoD as the Chairman of the 2016 Panel. 

[Cowshed]

Moor2sea what would your root and branch reform be? How would you raise standards without starting from the grass roots up v EPL down?

What post competition panels and subsequent coaching revolutions? England has never had one which parallels various changes that have occurred in Belgium, France, Germany and Spain.

Do you want the likes of Arsenal to return to going to Alan Smiths and Niall Quinns again, with Ray Parlour and Rocastle bombing on to flicks on's from Lukics punts?; Are these traditional strengths you refer to?

[Super]

We have a crap, boring, negative manager. Hardly a shock we are rubbish.

[RedRock]

Every time we are knocked out of a tournament we have a review of why we are so crap. Followed by a FA report with some blazers telling us we shouldn't have any competitive matches until our little darlings are older enough not to cry, that we have FA qualified coaches to teach them what a football looks like blah, blah.

What what I do? For starters... Breed winners, give them a 'will to win', celebrate success, learn from failure. Train, train, train concentrating on physical and mental toughness, expressing themselves and keeping things simple rather than tying them in knots with exercises from a technical coaching manual. Constant practice, skills, free kicks et al. Identify and exploit natural strengths. Make sure they have the correct focus and a real desire to be a successful footballer, get them in a 'zone of professionalism' early doors. Teach them not to cheat themselves or others, install good discipline.

Then, the Premiership.... have a maximum 5 foreign players in first team squads, don't allow rich clubs to hoard English youngsters in vast academies with little chance of breaking through to the first team. Iimprove scouting systems in youth/non league to identify the naturally gifted players.

Oh, and scrap the FA..... Get rid of the blazers and FA identikit softies like Brooking, Hodgson, et al. Get some fire and passion in the halls of power... more of Clough, Fergie sort of characters rather than  Greenwood, 'Wally with a Brolly' type of chap. 

The above would be Day 1 of my strategy...

Hopefully, Day 1 would start to lay the foundations to a new 'Class of 2022' breed of footballer, where we can build a resilient squad of 24 English Players full of desire, passion, skill with an exciting game plan .. all that was lacking against Spain.

 

 

[reddogkev]

20 minutes ago, Moor2Sea said:

Every time we are knocked out of a tournament we have a review of why we are so crap. Followed by a FA report with some blazers telling us we shouldn't have any competitive matches until our little darlings are older enough not to cry, that we have FA qualified coaches to teach them what a football looks like blah, blah.

What what I do? For starters... Breed winners, give them a 'will to win', celebrate success, learn from failure. Train, train, train concentrating on physical and mental toughness, expressing themselves and keeping things simple rather than tying them in knots with exercises from a technical coaching manual. Constant practice, skills, free kicks et al. Identify and exploit natural strengths. Make sure they have the correct focus and a real desire to be a successful footballer, get them in a 'zone of professionalism' early doors. Teach them not to cheat themselves or others, install good discipline.

Then, the Premiership.... have a maximum 5 foreign players in first team squads, don't allow rich clubs to hoard English youngsters in vast academies with little chance of breaking through to the first team. Iimprove scouting systems in youth/non league to identify the naturally gifted players.

Oh, and scrap the FA..... Get rid of the blazers and FA identikit softies like Brooking, Hodgson, et al. Get some fire and passion in the halls of power... more of Clough, Fergie sort of characters rather than  Greenwood, 'Wally with a Brolly' type of chap. 

The above would be Day 1 of my strategy...

Hopefully, Day 1 would start to lay the foundations to a new 'Class of 2022' breed of footballer, where we can build a resilient squad of 24 English Players full of desire, passion, skill with an exciting game plan .. all that was lacking against Spain.

 

 

No need to be so radical after losing a friendly against Spain in their own backyard!

Don't forget, we were unbeaten for over a year!

Wait and see how we do against France, and then the Euro's.

The only thing I'd want the FA to do is put together a package that Mr Pep Guardiola could absolutely not turn down - even if he wanted a million quid a month and demanded to move into Buckingham Palace!