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Cotts whinging again


Major Isewater

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He makes a good point, the gap in the championship is growing. Championship finances are sickening.

Personally I would like the parachute payment structure to change, so that the premier league underwrite the contracts of players who were signed while that team was in the prem, up to a certain amount.

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1 hour ago, TETBURY MASSIVE said:

You've managed 2 replies on this thread now Tetbury. Any chance you want to respond to me regards your accusations of "constant" posting when we lose? Or have you acknowledged you've lost that argument? 

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40 minutes ago, Harry said:

You've managed 2 replies on this thread now Tetbury. Any chance you want to respond to me regards your accusations of "constant" posting when we lose? Or have you acknowledged you've lost that argument? 

You've set him a challenge there Harry, no doubt Tetbury will be "in touch" very soon.....;)

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2 hours ago, Harry said:

You've managed 2 replies on this thread now Tetbury. Any chance you want to respond to me regards your accusations of "constant" posting when we lose? Or have you acknowledged you've lost that argument? 

This sounds like a challenge to a duel. Unfortunately, for you, the person challenged has the choice of weapons. I've heard that in the Tetbury region this involves strange practices, best not mentioned on the forum. 

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3 hours ago, Robbored said:

I haven't scrolled all through this thread but has anyone pointed out that Steve Bruce was slated as a dick after his "whinging" after the draw at AG.

i posted then that virtually all managers whinge at some point......and that Cotterill was/is as guilty as every other manager. Now there's a whole thread about him whinging......:facepalm:

I suggest you read my opening post Robbored .

i don't give a shit about What other managers say or do but i do worry when our manager gives reasons for our club NOT to succeed  .

We can't compete with these clubs with parachute payments so no point in trying . 

If we don't win it's because of money .

What message is that sending out to our squad ? 

Can you imagine Brian Clough telling all and sundry that Forest could n't hope to win the League or the European Cup because other clubs had bigger squads and more money ?

Did Dave Bassett tell Wimbledon that they could n't hope to be up there because they were a small club with no money ?

Did they **** .

They took what was in front of them and through sheer hard work , Will power and positivity they shoved it up the big clubs 

You may say there's more money in the game today but the Real Madrids and Manchester Uniteds of this world have always had more than most .

Hell no , i want Cotterill to get back to his positive , winning self and start performing .The excuses must stop . 

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10 hours ago, Super said:

Would mean relegation.

 

10 hours ago, Gilts said:

A quiet January would be disastrous. We need 3/4 players minimum.

Three or four of the wrong players would take us down-just two of the right type with requisite experience will keep us up...quality will out.its attracting them that is easier said..........

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1 hour ago, Major Isewater said:

I suggest you read my opening post Robbored .

i don't give a shit about What other managers say or do but i do worry when our manager gives reasons for our club NOT to succeed  .

We can't compete with these clubs with parachute payments so no point in trying . 

If we don't win it's because of money .

What message is that sending out to our squad ? 

Can you imagine Brian Clough telling all and sundry that Forest could n't hope to win the League or the European Cup because other clubs had bigger squads and more money ?

Did Dave Bassett tell Wimbledon that they could n't hope to be up there because they were a small club with no money ?

Did they **** .

They took what was in front of them and through sheer hard work , Will power and positivity they shoved it up the big clubs 

You may say there's more money in the game today but the Real Madrids and Manchester Uniteds of this world have always had more than most .

Hell no , i want Cotterill to get back to his positive , winning self and start performing .The excuses must stop . 

I understood exactly what you were saying in your opening post and you're largely right - it's the use of the word "whinge" that I find amusing.

As I said earlier almost all managers "whinge" about something or other and in Cotterills case it's about the finances. Last season SC was able to attract the best League 1 players and that led to the division championship. He wasn't whinging then.

Its very different this season, Attracting quality players is nowhere near as easy. City are not (yet) an established Champinship club and that proved to be a telling factor in last summers lack of signings. No point in throwing dosh at the problem as Cotterill, quite rightly only wants players that will improve the current squad. The two SC wanted didn't want to come to AG.

 

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17 hours ago, pongo88 said:

Of Bryan, Reid, Burns and O'Leary, none are currently in the team, and only Bryan was a regular last season in league 1. O'Leary is still young so it's too soon to identify how far he will progress. 

Kodjia has been a great foreign signing, but where are the rest? Other clubs are able to find good players from abroad, but City's scouting system has only managed to find one. 

Smith definitely looks as though he will do well at Championship level, Flint and Ayling might, but Freeman has been poor and lucky to be in the team. (I noticed that you forgot to mention El Abd!)

In summary, poor record for academy players in recent years, only one good foreign signing, and a mixed bag regarding other permanent signings

"Find"? Kodjia wasn't a gem unearthed. He was well known to the entire country of France. I'd prefer our scouting to  be a little more sophisticated than buying top scorers/ players of the year from the second tier of a key European league. That sort of scouting can be done by watching BT Sport these days. 

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9 hours ago, Robbored said:

I understood exactly what you were saying in your opening post and you're largely right - it's the use of the word "whinge" that I find amusing.

As I said earlier almost all managers "whinge" about something or other and in Cotterills case it's about the finances. Last season SC was able to attract the best League 1 players and that led to the division championship. He wasn't whinging then.

Its very different this season, Attracting quality players is nowhere near as easy. City are not (yet) an established Champinship club and that proved to be a telling factor in last summers lack of signings. No point in throwing dosh at the problem as Cotterill, quite rightly only wants players that will improve the current squad. The two SC wanted didn't want to come to AG.

 

You have touched in other matters but,  in essence , Cotterill by his complaining is giving a message to his players that they can justify failure . 

How are they expected to win ? They are tired , the opposition is better , they have more support ...

Did Lord Nelson say ' Hitler's army out numbers us ' at Waterloo  ? 

No he blimmin' well did n't .

Stop the excuses . Excuses are for losers .

We need to be at our very best just to survive this season . Cotts is normally brilliant with his players   but he's letting them down with his misguided statements.

 

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19 hours ago, Harry said:

Hi Tetbury. What can I say, I didn't realise I had a stalker? 

To put the record straight, I've posted a mere 20 times since the beginning of November, so I wouldn't quote me as posting 'constantly' after we lose games. 

Those 20 posts have been mostly about defending Marlon Pack, a couple about Skuse, a few about the atmosphere at games and a couple about other managers (Bruce & Dean Smith). 

I can't seem to find my "constant" posts when we lose? If anything, my content has been about trying to galvanize support for a much maligned player and trying to galvanise support in the stands. 

Please can you show me the topics in which I've "constantly" been posting when we lose.  Challenge set.........

Good Morning, Marmite Gang Member.....

1 thing I will reply when I am good and ready... some of us have better things to do then sit at home tommy tanking of Championship manager and telling themselves how great they are and how knowledgeable they are because they have prozone.

I am not stalking you, anyone who reads the forum on a regular basis can notice who is posting and who is not...... So I merely made an observation that you seem to post more after we have had a defeat... you don't 'seem' to be very active when we are on a good run or when we don't get beat.

Its funny how you went quiet after the whole "we will be signing Mr Marmite next Wednesday"........ And he didn't materialize so you took your little Football Managers Scout list and went to sulk in your bedroom......

Now when things are not so rosey..... you have popped back up with your little gang mates..... who really dont know EFF all....... and are trying to galvanize things..... who are you Dynamo?

Just for the benefit of the forum why don't you supply us with a list of your special players that have done anything successful when you have recommended and they have gone on to big things.....??

Lastly I see you are from Charfield...... Congratulations on taking Woodsy's Crown off of him........

 

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I like SC but his comments in the BP article are the sort of comments that agitated him last season.   There is no doubt we had one of the biggest budgets last season but SC used to get really annoyed when other managers cited City's budget as either a reason for our success or an excuse for their position or performance.   Despite having one of the best budgets last season SC did out-perform and I'd like to see him focusing on out-performing again and returning to his 'I'm a winner' mentality.

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18 hours ago, Woodsy said:

As I said last year, you can have money, you can have little money - it's how you spend it

SC & KB nailed it last year, absolutely ******* nailed it. They scouted them, convinced SL and he signed the cheque

I agree with @YorkshireSection as well, if it's not working then I have no problem with the lads who done so well last season being replaced now. They done their job, thank you very much, all the best for the future

I'd execute the same sentiment with the manager too, although it pains me to say it.

Last season, right club, good fit, great spirit etc, this season is exactly the opposite that, there's no room for sentiment in football (as SL SHOULD have learned by persisting with the failing GJ), I wish SL was as cutthroat in football as he was in his business ventures, if he was then this club would be SERIOUSLY eyeballing premier league football, not see-sawing with the idea of league one football and less than 10 k crowds, madness, if there was ever a time to push on it was this summer, January at worse (yes I understand the economics). Maybe rugby and the relatively easy path to seeing BRISTOL have a top flight sporting club is turning SL head, does rugby attract 27,000 crowds, I haven't a clue and like the rest of us fans were in the dark and left guessing.

 

.........now where's that David Lloyd when you want questions answered!

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18 minutes ago, YorkshireSection said:

I'd execute the same sentiment with the manager too, although it pains me to say it.

Last season, right club, good fit, great spirit etc, this season is exactly the opposite that, there's no room for sentiment in football (as SL SHOULD have learned by persisting with the failing GJ), I wish SL was as cutthroat in football as he was in his business ventures, if he was then this club would be SERIOUSLY eyeballing premier league football, not see-sawing with the idea of league one football and less than 10 k crowds, madness, if there was ever a time to push on it was this summer, January at worse (yes I understand the economics). Maybe rugby and the relatively easy path to seeing BRISTOL have a top flight sporting club is turning SL head, does rugby attract 27,000 crowds, I haven't a clue and like the rest of us fans were in the dark and left guessing.

 

.........now where's that David Lloyd when you want questions answered!

I'm sure Bristol could get damn near close for Gloucester & Barf games. I'm sure Bristol-Barf played in front of a packed house at AG a few years ago?? As we've seen in rugby (Barf & Saracens) you can spend well beyond what the rules say and seemingly get away with it. I'm sure that hasn't gone unnoticed by SL & BS

I'm not ready to give Cotts the chop just yet, but I can understand why people are getting twitchy. I would go back to my point that, in my opinion, the plans SC & KB had in place for the summer were foiled by some awful decisions from above. They can't be held fully responsible IF that is the case. Would be lovely to have some stability here for a change though, been a while

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16 minutes ago, YorkshireSection said:

I'd execute the same sentiment with the manager too, although it pains me to say it.

Last season, right club, good fit, great spirit etc, this season is exactly the opposite that, there's no room for sentiment in football (as SL SHOULD have learned by persisting with the failing GJ), I wish SL was as cutthroat in football as he was in his business ventures, if he was then this club would be SERIOUSLY eyeballing premier league football, not see-sawing with the idea of league one football and less than 10 k crowds, madness, if there was ever a time to push on it was this summer, January at worse (yes I understand the economics). Maybe rugby and the relatively easy path to seeing BRISTOL have a top flight sporting club is turning SL head, does rugby attract 27,000 crowds, I haven't a clue and like the rest of us fans were in the dark and left guessing.

.........now where's that David Lloyd when you want questions answered!

I think as Bristol have demonstrated over the past three seasons - it certainly isn't an easy path getting to the Premiership. That said it is likely to be less costly and more likely than City getting to the top flight.

If Bristol got to the Premiership there would probably be 3 guarenteed sell-outs: Bath, Gloucester and Leicester (who average over 20k). Bath alone would bring 10k + fans to AG. There are other big games to: Wasps, Harlequins, Exeter, Saracens, Irish all would attract 15k +.

At the rugby gate receipts are higher than the football and also a lot more is spent in the ground (beer sales mainly) so it is lucrative.

For next season, whilst our C'ship survival is huge for Bristol Sport, I do think Bristol getting promotion is perhaps an even more important goal for BS.

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2 hours ago, TETBURY MASSIVE said:

Good Morning, Marmite Gang Member.....

1 thing I will reply when I am good and ready... some of us have better things to do then sit at home tommy tanking of Championship manager and telling themselves how great they are and how knowledgeable they are because they have prozone.

I am not stalking you, anyone who reads the forum on a regular basis can notice who is posting and who is not...... So I merely made an observation that you seem to post more after we have had a defeat... you don't 'seem' to be very active when we are on a good run or when we don't get beat.

Its funny how you went quiet after the whole "we will be signing Mr Marmite next Wednesday"........ And he didn't materialize so you took your little Football Managers Scout list and went to sulk in your bedroom......

Now when things are not so rosey..... you have popped back up with your little gang mates..... who really dont know EFF all....... and are trying to galvanize things..... who are you Dynamo?

Just for the benefit of the forum why don't you supply us with a list of your special players that have done anything successful when you have recommended and they have gone on to big things.....??

Lastly I see you are from Charfield...... Congratulations on taking Woodsy's Crown off of him........

 

Are 5 year olds allowed to make accounts on here? Grow up.

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On ‎02‎/‎12‎/‎2015‎ ‎10‎:‎37‎:‎52, 'keepuplino' said:

Where has he been moaning? if this is true we really need to move the bloke on, this is getting really depressing....What is the bloody point in being in the championship with this attitude? 

Maybe you should read what he says before passing judgment.

This is not whingeing, it is answering a question and making observations:

City's manager said: "I think there is a big difference (between the top and the bottom half) over the course of a season.

"I don't necessarily think the gap is always that big on the day and teams in the lower half can maybe bridge that on occasions.

"But over a period of time, when you play Saturday, Tuesday and Saturday, there will be a difference. That's when you find there is a big gap.

"Those clubs with the bigger squads and wage bills generally end up around the top of the table."

Cotterill added: "It's difficult when you come up against those stronger squads, those that can change three or four players without it making a difference to them.

"You notice the difference when you have a tough week, when you have to play on a Saturday, a Tuesday and then a Saturday.

"That is when it becomes really difficult for us. We had that scenario when we played Reading earlier in the season and they were able to freshen their team up with three or four different players. We couldn't do that and we looked tired that day."

He added: "We have a lot of young boys who are still learning their way and it's going to be a gradual progression.

"That's what it is and we are where we are. You can ask me all you like about signing players, but we're working to a budget."

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Robin1988 said:

MI you're taking him explaining why it's difficult as an admission of defeat, which it is not.

Not quite Robin1988, it's not an admission of defeat but psychologically the players will be going out with the idea that if they lose it's not their fault but the fact that the opposition are stronger , fresher, etc . 

It's a justification, endorsed by the manager no less .

Last year we were expected to win , no excuses , no hiding place .

This year we can be forgiven if we lose so why worry ? 

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On ‎02‎/‎12‎/‎2015‎ ‎10‎:‎43‎:‎33, 'keepuplino' said:

So you guy's think his comments are reasonable... All we've had all season is bloody excuses..Excuses on why we haven't made signings, excuses on why we're in a relegation battle, excuses on how we don't deserve to be where we are, to be quite frank i'm getting slightly bored of it now!!

http://www.otib.co.uk/index.php?/topic/159440-the-end/

Out of curiosity did you actually do those things?

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10 hours ago, TETBURY MASSIVE said:

Good Morning, Marmite Gang Member.....

1 thing I will reply when I am good and ready... some of us have better things to do then sit at home tommy tanking of Championship manager and telling themselves how great they are and how knowledgeable they are because they have prozone.

I am not stalking you, anyone who reads the forum on a regular basis can notice who is posting and who is not...... So I merely made an observation that you seem to post more after we have had a defeat... you don't 'seem' to be very active when we are on a good run or when we don't get beat.

Its funny how you went quiet after the whole "we will be signing Mr Marmite next Wednesday"........ And he didn't materialize so you took your little Football Managers Scout list and went to sulk in your bedroom......

Now when things are not so rosey..... you have popped back up with your little gang mates..... who really dont know EFF all....... and are trying to galvanize things..... who are you Dynamo?

Just for the benefit of the forum why don't you supply us with a list of your special players that have done anything successful when you have recommended and they have gone on to big things.....??

Lastly I see you are from Charfield...... Congratulations on taking Woodsy's Crown off of him........

 

Agree with Robin1988, grow up. Fans have differing opinions, no need to resort to juvenile name calling...

Plus you can hardly speak when you're from Tetbury... total dive of a place ;-)

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8 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

Not quite Robin1988, it's not an admission of defeat but psychologically the players will be going out with the idea that if they lose it's not their fault but the fact that the opposition are stronger , fresher, etc . 

It's a justification, endorsed by the manager no less .

Last year we were expected to win , no excuses , no hiding place .

This year we can be forgiven if we lose so why worry ? 

I don't mean to be patronising, but if you think the players will be listening to that over what Cotterill says to them in private you know nothing about man management.

Cotterill will and does demand 100% from his players each and every game; you're suggesting they can excuse what are, (although this point is irrelevant) valid and accurate comments, to shirk out of responsibility. 2 years of Cotterill says that's not true.

He might have changed tack in the press; unsurprising when we've had a much more difficult season, and having done such brilliant business in the transfer window in Summer 2014, having done so comparatively poorly this time around.

But he will not have changed his approach in the dressing room. There is absolutely no way the players will be going out with any excuses, it's not in his DNA to allow that to happen. The press is a necessary evil for managers, trust me, I've worked in it.

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4 minutes ago, Robin1988 said:

I don't mean to be patronising, but if you think the players will be listening to that over what Cotterill says to them in private you know nothing about man management.

Cotterill will and does demand 100% from his players each and every game; you're suggesting they can excuse what are, (although this point is irrelevant) valid and accurate comments, to shirk out of responsibility. 2 years of Cotterill says that's not true.

He might have changed tack in the press; unsurprising when we've had a much more difficult season, and having done such brilliant business in the transfer window in Summer 2014, having done so comparatively poorly this time around.

But he will not have changed his approach in the dressing room. There is absolutely no way the players will be going out with any excuses, it's not in his DNA to allow that to happen. The press is a necessary evil for managers, trust me, I've worked in it.

You have some points but Cotts is undermining himself .

Of course he demands 100% from them but you cannot deny the fact that in the backs of their minds the players  psychologically have a get out of jail free card endorsed by the very person who demands 100% .

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Just now, Major Isewater said:

Of course he demands 100% from them but you cannot deny the fact that in the backs of their minds the players  psychologically have a get out of jail free card endorsed by the very person who demands 100% .

No I completely deny it - Jurgen Klopp came out soon after he joined Liverpool and said title talk was 'crazy'. They're six points off. Do you think they're giving anything less than 100% because they've got a 'get out of jail free card'? No.

What the manager of a club says in private and public is pretty much mutually exclusive and within reason will only be giving what he says in the dressing room the time of day.

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13 hours ago, TETBURY MASSIVE said:

Good Morning, Marmite Gang Member.....

1 thing I will reply when I am good and ready... some of us have better things to do then sit at home tommy tanking of Championship manager and telling themselves how great they are and how knowledgeable they are because they have prozone.

I am not stalking you, anyone who reads the forum on a regular basis can notice who is posting and who is not...... So I merely made an observation that you seem to post more after we have had a defeat... you don't 'seem' to be very active when we are on a good run or when we don't get beat.

Its funny how you went quiet after the whole "we will be signing Mr Marmite next Wednesday"........ And he didn't materialize so you took your little Football Managers Scout list and went to sulk in your bedroom......

Now when things are not so rosey..... you have popped back up with your little gang mates..... who really dont know EFF all....... and are trying to galvanize things..... who are you Dynamo?

Just for the benefit of the forum why don't you supply us with a list of your special players that have done anything successful when you have recommended and they have gone on to big things.....??

Lastly I see you are from Charfield...... Congratulations on taking Woodsy's Crown off of him........

 

He he, oh Tetty my ol' mucker, you do have me rolling in the aisles.  Many thanks for your reply.

Ok, let's take this step by step shall we ;

"Marmite Gang Member".  Glad you pay enough attention to us to label us with a title.  Let's just put this one straight though shall we.  In August, there was an almighty clamouring for signings, with meltdown beginning to creep in.  I'd heard something from a very reliable source that Leon Best was in talks with us, and a decision was likely to be made by the following week.  I gladly shared as much info as I could with my fellow reds on here, knowing that most would appreciate the little bit of news.  I couldn't reveal the name of the player, so I just hinted that some would like him, others wouldn't.  The reason I couldn't name the player was to protect the source, but I can safely say to you now that a lot of time has passed, that the source was an actual real life text message from his actual real life agent.
Anyway, I didn't go quiet and hide in my room with football manager, I posted a number of times after the window closed confirming that the player in question was Best.  I could only say what I was at liberty to say.  Seems this got your goat.  Not sure why it would frustrate you so much, maybe you'd care to explain - do you have personal interest in this, I can only guess you are rather close to the matter for it to have upset you so.  You accuse me of "going quiet" about this?  On the contrary, I confirmed in numerous threads who the player was once the window had closed.

Whats next?  Oh, the brutal accusations of straining the snake at computer games about football.  I'm so hurt.  Blimey, man.  Ha ha, I love it when the only retort some folk have to those who actually scout players for a hobby is to accuse them of playing computer games.  What a guy.  Is it jealousy?  Is it inferiority complex?  Maybe small man syndrome?  I dunno, again, perhaps you could enlighten me.

I am still none the wiser as to your original accusation of me "constantly posting" now that things are so "rosey".  Your words.  I replied that I had posted a mere 20 times in 5 weeks.  I'd hardly label that as "constant".  Plus I also qualified this with the fact that all of those posts had been about anything but your man Cotterill (one assumes your point was supposed to be that I am constantly on here degrading our manager, whom I can only further assume you have some close ties with, given your personal agony at anything that's said against him?)  Well, as I evidenced, this is not the case, yet you reply with the same accusations, but still zero proof.  Are you going to qualify your point of view with any evidential matter?

"Who are you, Dynamo".  I'm afraid this one is lost on me, I have no idea who or what Dynamo is (I must be out scouting players too much to either notice, or indeed care).  The point I was making was that, far from being this 'divisive' character you seem keen to pin on me, accusing me of being anti-Cotterill and wilfully shouting it from the rooftops, what my posts on here have been about is trying to bring 'togetherness'.  Yes, I do think what I had to say on Pack was important for fans to hear, and yes I do think what I had to say in the atmos thread after the last game was also important, as I am trying to help the Atyeo corner link with the Dolman and help to create a fervent atmos at Ashton Gate.  So yes, if this means I am some kind of Dynamo, then so be it.  At least my actions are trying to bring our fans together, not divide and conquer as it appears your musings and ramblings on here seem to intend.

Next (blimey, there's a lot isn't there!)  You want my "list of special players" do you?  Not likely I'm afraid old chap.  For my eyes only, and a little group of friends of mine who also partake in watching players and creating our own database.  We only share this with important persons, and you my little goat, are not important to me.
For the record though, a member of my little group (henceforth known as Marmite Recruitment - courtesy of Mr Tetbury), has become more interested in this as not just a hobby but a full-time post, and has actually began applying for a few Head of Academy Recruitment roles across the Country, and believe me, there is a fair bit of weight behind his applications too.  So just bide your time Tets, and the fruit of our work will be clear to see.  For now though, you ain't getting a sniff.

Last but not least - Charfield.  Oh you really know how to punish a man when he's down don't you.  What insanely childish humour you present.  For the record, I'm not 'from' Charfield, but I did in fact recently move here from Bedminster.  One of the reasons I have posted so infrequently of late is due to my house move and all that this brings (sorry that I've not been posting "constantly" when things were going so well in August and September, I had other things on).  What's that you say - oh, were things not all "rosey" in the first few weeks of the season you say?  Damn me and my busy life - I should've known my place and been on here moaning.
So having been in Charfield only 3 months, I don't think you can hammer me just yet with your witty repartee about how many digits I have and which one of my sisters noshed me off.  I shall refrain in joining in this hilarity of 'My Cotswoldian Village is better than yours".  It is, as they say, for the birds.

One last thing.  If I were you, my little goat, I shouldn't worry what KITR thinks of your regular insults toward him - he's had you on ignore for over a year, so you've been wasting you're words.  Much like I think I just have in giving you the benefit of this response.

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