JoeAman08 Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Well considering he's probably on 20k a week and saying we are paying another 20k a week in fees seems feasible to me. It was a deadline day deal so maybe it was a last ditch effort to get talent. Reading are paying a 2.5m loan fee for Vydra. So it's not like a 1m for Baker would be outrageous. Seems steep though. If that is the case, it shows we are willing to pay and up until today Nathan has been a rock. Hopefully we can have a bit more success on permanent transfers because 2m a year on a loan is a lot of money that can't be recovered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 1 minute ago, JoeAman08 said: Well considering he's probably on 20k a week and saying we are paying another 20k a week in fees seems feasible to me. It was a deadline day deal so maybe it was a last ditch effort to get talent. Reading are paying a 2.5m loan fee for Vydra. So it's not like a 1m for Baker would be outrageous. Seems steep though. If that is the case, it shows we are willing to pay and up until today Nathan has been a rock. Hopefully we can have a bit more success on permanent transfers because 2m a year on a loan is a lot of money that can't be recovered. Another guy on Twitter who's pretty reliable said he's heard about the money for Baker before today. Makes you think then why presumably we didn't offer Grey/Gayle 20k per week.. Or perhaps we did? What a confusing summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 All so very predictable this after a loss. A bloke says something on the radio so it must be true. We've even had the immortal "we should have kept SOD" line. SOD - the only City manager to ever make me consider giving up my season ticket! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 20 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said: He said the package was 40k. This is feasible, if a little steep. Is it unrealistic to suggest we paid 1m to have him for the season and 20k wages? Perhaps not if we really were desperate. Seems a little high to me considering our summer. It's complete rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 4 minutes ago, Super said: It's complete rubbish. Based on what? Him saying that has just as much credence as you saying its rubbish. Baker probably is on about 40k, maybe more. It's not THAT unrealistic to say our package might reach 40k, it was a real late signing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAman08 Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 14 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said: Another guy on Twitter who's pretty reliable said he's heard about the money for Baker before today. Makes you think then why presumably we didn't offer Grey/Gayle 20k per week.. Or perhaps we did? What a confusing summer. Very confusing and one we will probably never have a full understanding of. I don't mind assuming we offered Gayle and Gray competitive if not superior wage packages. One bet on himself playing for a prem club and one went to a club that on paper at the time(and now) looks much closer to the prem. We took chances and they didn't come off. I just hope pursuing signings such as those didn't cost us time to sign others and that's why our summer was poor. I don't think we were as stingy with wages as some think. I'd imagine we'd prefer to stick around 10k wage cap but if the right player were to be available to be flexible. It's all assumptions and this ITK says one thing and that ITK says something else. Something went wrong but I don't think it was wages. I do think we wanted to keep a small squad but that squad be stacked with quality and confidence. It didn't happen and now we have a small squad with little confidence. Now January is around the corner and we don't seem to be in a position to attract the players we will need. So it seems loans will be the answer again in January unless we learned and seriously got our s**t together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeepUpLino Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 2 hours ago, Kingswood mask said: I sooooooo love this forum, talk about the rats jumping ship when it's still sailing, i call this a blimp,time to relax guys ffs....but i might be wrong...just enjoy the ride boys n girls, it's what supporting a club is all about, win every game we would be top of the prem, but sadly life aint like that....it's our club, and i for one love it, keep the faith xxx Sadly I'm really not enjoying this and have failed to attend the last 4 home games, call me a poor fan i really don't care, after being a season ticket holder for 15 years in a row i think i finally may be losing the love and am preferring to spend my Saturdays at the christmas market with the Wife ALA today.. (things must be bad).. I've dream't for years that we can be a successful club challenging for premier league status but i'm coming to the realisation We're just a league 1 club who pay the occasional visit to the championship for a season or 2 of humiliation. All this makes Gary Johnsons achievements all the more impressive and i thank him for those memories, I truly think thats as good as its ever going to get... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 3 hours ago, Shtanley said: I'm in agreement with Louis Carey who thinks that SOD if given more time would have built a true philosophy. I think sacking him was the wrong decision and to sack Cotts without giving him January to make amends for this summer would also be a mistake. Cotts needs to change his transfer approach but I will say if he continues to aim for players like Gayle and Gray then he might have to go. I think some people on this thread are desperate for their self-fulfilling prophecies to come true. Many are desperate for change in the hope all the problems leave when the manager does. Carey's entitled to his opinions, but I'm afraid that one is horsesh*t. There was only one place this club was going under O'Miserable and that was down the swanny. Oh, and those people who are saying players don't like Cotterill - Korey Smith, Luke Freeman, Luke Ayling, Kieran Agard, Aaron Wilbraham etc didn't have a problem with him, did they Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 38 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said: Based on what? Him saying that has just as much credence as you saying its rubbish. Baker probably is on about 40k, maybe more. It's not THAT unrealistic to say our package might reach 40k, it was a real late signing. 40k a week and he can't even stay on a football pitch for 90 minutes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 3 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said: Carey's entitled to his opinions, but I'm afraid that one is horsesh*t. There was only one place this club was going under O'Miserable and that was down the swanny. Oh, and those people who are saying players don't like Cotterill - Korey Smith, Luke Freeman, Luke Ayling, Kieran Agard, Aaron Wilbraham etc didn't have a problem with him, did they It doesn't mean ALL PLAYERS don't like him...but he is seriously not a POPULAR manager to work for by many. So obviously some will come...plus we do pay good money. Those players you mention will be on good money for their ability and experience and Wilbs is one last pay cheque. As for Carey's comments...would you seriously sit opposite him, and tell him to his face that his opinion is horseshit? A player who knows the club inside out and how it works, it's pros and cons....and would know what would improve it....seriously...you know more than him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodEmperor Palpatine Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 3 hours ago, Nogbad the Bad said: Built a true philosophy from the 4th division? Great idea Louis. Talking of unsubstantiated... 3 hours ago, Nogbad the Bad said: That's your opinion, I'm convinced we would have been. Yup that is your opinion, its quite conceivably wrong mind but who knows... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 50 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said: Based on what? Him saying that has just as much credence as you saying its rubbish. Baker probably is on about 40k, maybe more. It's not THAT unrealistic to say our package might reach 40k, it was a real late signing. Agree I don't think it unrealistic. I don't think it's that expensive either mind. It's one of those positions that's worth spending a bit more on, it's pretty low risk over 12 months and it means we can get a player who otherwise, you'd think, wouldn't even consider us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 10 minutes ago, spudski said: It doesn't mean ALL PLAYERS don't like him...but he is seriously not a POPULAR manager to work for by many. So obviously some will come...plus we do pay good money. Those players you mention will be on good money for their ability and experience and Wilbs is one last pay cheque. As for Carey's comments...would you seriously sit opposite him, and tell him to his face that his opinion is horseshit? A player who knows the club inside out and how it works, it's pros and cons....and would know what would improve it....seriously...you know more than him? Cotterill is not a particularly popular man in the football world. You only have to visit any opposing team's forum when we play them. He winds people up, in the same way that Mourinho or Ferguson do/did. That's just part of his make-up, and if players don't want to play for him for that reason, that's their prerogative, but more fool them. His teams play attractive football and he's proved that he's a successful coach. In answer to your question... Yes, I would. Carey doesn't know more than the paying customers who witnessed the dross week in, week out with their own eyes and ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Ashton Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 1 hour ago, Red-Robbo said: We've even had the immortal "we should have kept SOD" line. SOD - the only City manager to ever make me consider giving up my season ticket! The only City manager to ever make me consider giving up living! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodEmperor Palpatine Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 4 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said: Cotterill is not a particularly popular man in the football world. You only have to visit any opposing team's forum when we play them. He winds people up, in the same way that Mourinho or Ferguson do/did. That's just part of his make-up, and if players don't want to play for him for that reason, that's their prerogative, but more fool them. His teams play attractive football and he's proved that he's a successful coach. In answer to your question... Yes, I would. Carey doesn't know more than the paying customers who witnessed the dross week in, week out with their own eyes and ears. Successful at lower level, not at this level... Its no so much the football that narcs me, if we dont have the players then fair enough. Its his failure to accept responsibility for defeats... Nearly every game its the excuses he comes out with.. always the better team, refereeing display is dreadful etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted December 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 1 hour ago, Super said: He just talking crap didn't he say baker was on 40k a week? I think what he said super, as mentioned earlier, is what we were paying Baker and Villa for his services....(Loans are rarely without payment particularly for premier League players) is the equivalent of paying 40k a week in wages, which is entirely possible. Iv'e noticed a few other comments saying that it is not possible that we are paying 'him' 40k in this string....Am I off base here or do people think loans come as freebies?....they don't usually unless its a young player needing experience...A England u21 international with two 3 years prem experience, free except wages....PLLLLEASSSE! What concerns me is Aston Villa are crap defensively, Baker looks like a damn good option for them right now....But is that a conspiracy theory to far!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 3 minutes ago, Dark Wood Covert said: Successful at lower level, not at this level... Its no so much the football that narcs me, if we dont have the players then fair enough. Its his failure to accept responsibility for defeats... Nearly every game its the excuses he comes out with.. always the better team, refereeing display is dreadful etc. To be fair, most managers are the same. Mark Hughes was the worst - blamed the referee for every defeat. To some extent, Cotts is right and we HAVE been unlucky, losing games when we've been the better team. I still have faith in him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 19 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said: Cotterill is not a particularly popular man in the football world. You only have to visit any opposing team's forum when we play them. He winds people up, in the same way that Mourinho or Ferguson do/did. That's just part of his make-up, and if players don't want to play for him for that reason, that's their prerogative, but more fool them. His teams play attractive football and he's proved that he's a successful coach. In answer to your question... Yes, I would. Carey doesn't know more than the paying customers who witnessed the dross week in, week out with their own eyes and ears. Carey does know more than fans. He's been around the club for years, he knows the Lansdowns, the tealady and the groundsmen.. He fully understands it and probably understands any indepth problems greater than our board with a comparative outsiders perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Cotts may be disliked by players, managers, fans etc. He's a bad loser, and that tends to wind people up. He rarely hangs his players out to dry though. Haven't heard him tonight. He might do it behind closed doors. Most of us would prefer more honesty, e.g. We were sh1t today and deserved to lose, or we were second best and got a lucky pen, etc. But that ain't never gonna happen. I'm loving Klopp at the mo', but imagine his press conferences in 6-12 months when he's fed up of the constant media crap in this country. Back to Cotts....I think he will turn results around, I want him to turn results around, I want him to remain our manager. I like the bloke. Others on here don't. Each to their own. Up to the Baker sending off, how do people think we played today. I thought we were the better side. On an aside, I suspect Patrick Bauer at Charlton is getting some interesting forum postings tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin_unreliant Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 My Dad is always telling me the story about a well known ex-pro he spoke to a few years back. He asked him why City struggle to sign top players and in the past only got them to come in the twilight of their careers ( Hunter, Royle etc). His answer was that it was well known in the game that the fans would turn on the players when the going got tough. That the support doesn't match up to other parts of the country. They wanted somewhere the fans got right behind the team. Times change - I'm sure money has more of a say nowadays. However, reading this forum sometimes makes me wonder if there might be something to that story! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bs4Red Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 10 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Cotts may be disliked by players, managers, fans etc. He's a bad loser, and that tends to wind people up. He rarely hangs his players out to dry though. Haven't heard him tonight. He might do it behind closed doors. Most of us would prefer more honesty, e.g. We were sh1t today and deserved to lose, or we were second best and got a lucky pen, etc. But that ain't never gonna happen. I'm loving Klopp at the mo', but imagine his press conferences in 6-12 months when he's fed up of the constant media crap in this country. Back to Cotts....I think he will turn results around, I want him to turn results around, I want him to remain our manager. I like the bloke. Others on here don't. Each to their own. Up to the Baker sending off, how do people think we played today. I thought we were the better side. On an aside, I suspect Patrick Bauer at Charlton is getting some interesting forum postings tonight. Mate, I've never said and never will say I don't want him to succeed. I do; I really do! But I feel that he isn't the way forward and right now there are managers out there who could change our situation. For me 19/20th isn't good enough and at the moment we are being outclassed and there is no other ideas. Same players same style same outcome. Wins come and go. But winning 3 in 20 this season is unacceptable. We all want him to succeed but overall we want the club to succeed. Whoever is at the helm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelts Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Unfortunately we are a yo yo club and not established in the championship or a big name in the past. The current boss Steve is not well liked by the players or the staff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 26 minutes ago, Bs4Red said: Mate, I've never said and never will say I don't want him to succeed. I do; I really do! But I feel that he isn't the way forward and right now there are managers out there who could change our situation. For me 19/20th isn't good enough and at the moment we are being outclassed and there is no other ideas. Same players same style same outcome. Wins come and go. But winning 3 in 20 this season is unacceptable. We all want him to succeed but overall we want the club to succeed. Whoever is at the helm. Yep. I thought the football we played in 13/14 under SOD was awful, but if the board thought he was the man to take us forward, then I'd get behind him. You're right it's about the club. Managers do come and go....too frequently for my liking, as do players. At least we both want the club (and him) to succeed. I'm not sure everyone thinks that way. If for example next Saturday v Huddersfield was lose and get sacked, then I'm sure there's some on here that would rather see us lose. i can't be like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bs4Red Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 1 minute ago, Davefevs said: Yep. I thought the football we played in 13/14 under SOD was awful, but if the board thought he was the man to take us forward, then I'd get behind him. You're right it's about the club. Managers do come and go....too frequently for my liking, as do players. At least we both want the club (and him) to succeed. I'm not sure everyone thinks that way. If for example next Saturday v Huddersfield was lose and get sacked, then I'm sure there's some on here that would rather see us lose. i can't be like that. Totally agree pal and I want him to succeed, every bone in my body wanted us to win today but to be honest we just don't look threatening of JK isn't fit and firing. I'm so disappointed with the manner we are losing in. I can accept losing but at the moment there is no fight or plan b. One win doesn't cover cracks in afraid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 1 hour ago, AshtonGreat said: Cotterill is not a particularly popular man in the football world. You only have to visit any opposing team's forum when we play them. He winds people up, in the same way that Mourinho or Ferguson do/did. That's just part of his make-up, and if players don't want to play for him for that reason, that's their prerogative, but more fool them. His teams play attractive football and he's proved that he's a successful coach. In answer to your question... Yes, I would. Carey doesn't know more than the paying customers who witnessed the dross week in, week out with their own eyes and ears. Please take this with good faith, but mate, you seriously need to take a step back and think about what you're saying. Fans don't like Cotterill because he comes across in the media as a whinging ****. Many fans who had him at their clubs disliked him then and now...he really does not come across well. To put SC in the same sentence as Ferguson and Jose is a joke...they may come across sometimes as whingers...but they are bloody good at their job and players want to play for them. Players don't think like fans...it's not the way he comes across in the media....it's the way he is with people, in training and day to day work at the clubs he's been at. His teams play attractive football? Only witnessed it with us last season and when he was at Cheltenham...most other Clubs fans think his football was one dimensional. As for Carey not knowing more than the paying Customer...wtf!!!!! really? A football club isn't just about what you witnessed for 90 mins every week. It's about everything that leads up to those 90 mins and whether you can build and create sustained success. You think you know more about that, than the man who's played for City more than anyone else, seen the day to day running, managers come and go and knows what makes the Club tick....Really? I imagine you'd think you could take City to the Champions league as well, because you did it on Football manager.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Fred Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 14 hours ago, Shtanley said: Well his philosophy got them 1 game away from the premier league title. Luis Suarez got them there....before he signed they were bog standard average,when he left..................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodEmperor Palpatine Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 I 9 hours ago, spudski said: Please take this with good faith, but mate, you seriously need to take a step back and think about what you're saying. Fans don't like Cotterill because he comes across in the media as a whinging ****. Many fans who had him at their clubs disliked him then and now...he really does not come across well. To put SC in the same sentence as Ferguson and Jose is a joke...they may come across sometimes as whingers...but they are bloody good at their job and players want to play for them. Players don't think like fans...it's not the way he comes across in the media....it's the way he is with people, in training and day to day work at the clubs he's been at. His teams play attractive football? Only witnessed it with us last season and when he was at Cheltenham...most other Clubs fans think his football was one dimensional. As for Carey not knowing more than the paying Customer...wtf!!!!! really? A football club isn't just about what you witnessed for 90 mins every week. It's about everything that leads up to those 90 mins and whether you can build and create sustained success. You think you know more about that, than the man who's played for City more than anyone else, seen the day to day running, managers come and go and knows what makes the Club tick....Really? I imagine you'd think you could take City to the Champions league as well, because you did it on Football manager.... I do and I did But in all seriousness I agree with what you said. Carey would know more than me and you or any fan as he is a fan himself, he played for the club for years and knows the club inside out. I strongly suspect he still keeps in close contact with the club and follows the goings ons closely. Cotterills interview skills IMO are very poor, he tends to interrupt the interviewer mid flow and I would think he irks opposing managers with his comments about being the better team etc, While I know some fans love it, I think it shows disrespect. At least with Mourinho and Ferguson they my whinge but give credit where its due particularly Mourinho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 12 hours ago, REDOXO said: I think what he said super, as mentioned earlier, is what we were paying Baker and Villa for his services....(Loans are rarely without payment particularly for premier League players) is the equivalent of paying 40k a week in wages, which is entirely possible. Iv'e noticed a few other comments saying that it is not possible that we are paying 'him' 40k in this string....Am I off base here or do people think loans come as freebies?....they don't usually unless its a young player needing experience...A England u21 international with two 3 years prem experience, free except wages....PLLLLEASSSE! What concerns me is Aston Villa are crap defensively, Baker looks like a damn good option for them right now....But is that a conspiracy theory to far!? I imagine one of the only ways a season long loan can be terminated is for disciplinary reasons...............! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marina's Rolls Royce Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 I heard that players don't want to come here because the fans are too fickle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 16 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said: 2 hours ago, Dark Wood Covert said: I I do and I did But in all seriousness I agree with what you said. Carey would know more than me and you or any fan as he is a fan himself, he played for the club for years and knows the club inside out. I strongly suspect he still keeps in close contact with the club and follows the goings ons closely. Cotterills interview skills IMO are very poor, he tends to interrupt the interviewer mid flow and I would think he irks opposing managers with his comments about being the better team etc, While I know some fans love it, I think it shows disrespect. At least with Mourinho and Ferguson they my whinge but give credit where its due particularly Mourinho Close contact? Interesting. With who, and to what end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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