If ever

[Esmond Million's Bung]

LJ needed a reminder about how paper thin our midfield is tonight was it, Reid scored a great goal but was generally totally ineffective, Pack was poor mom my arse, Bryan looked like a downs league player in the 2nd half, the game completely passed Tomlin by and Freeman was in and out of the game if Reid and Pack are first choice next season I predict a struggle.

[Donkeeebles]

And Smith? 

[Roe]

6 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

 Reid scored a great goal but was generally totally ineffective,

Can't agree with that. He only played about an hour yet managed to score and set one up. As the guy playing just behind the striker he was excellent and did all he could tonight.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Trying to do the work of 3.

[HoldenBall]

If we want to be where Derby are next season we will need at least 10 new players.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Agree to disagree about Reid, but Derby were not that good but with our 2nd half performance they didn't need to be.

[Donkeeebles]

16 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Trying to do the work of 3.

Ah I see, I knew there must have been a reason why he was so poor

[Lrrr]

21 minutes ago, roe said:

Can't agree with that. He only played about an hour yet managed to score and set one up. As the guy playing just behind the striker he was excellent and did all he could tonight.

The way I put it, he had 2 or 3 genuinely quality moments but was otherwise quiet.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Our midfield was bossed and bullied most of the night, there was a point in the 2nd where Pack claimed he had been fouled and stamped his feet gesticulating to the referee and meanwhile they were breaking through on goal, imho our midfield is lightweight and without signings we will struggle again.

[Super]

We were really lucky not to be on the end of a hiding in the end, they absolutely ripped us apart for 20mims in the second half, not helped by our constant inability to be able to hold onto the ball. Last night proved there is a massive job ahead this summer.

[Numero Uno]

We got beat by a good side last night and the inadequacies of individual players is magnified playing against opposition like that. Their two central midfield players worked their knackers off and controlled the game, very impressed with them. Martin is a very good hold up player...would love someone like him up top for us. Ince has got quality. Their main weakness is defensively, you can get at them and with minimal possession we did at times.

Smith was as poor as I have seen him, Pack is not up to it if you are looking to finish top half and challenging for a play off spot. Tomlin tried to do too much. Reid had good moments but has to do a bit more next season. Bryan is suffering from too many positional changes, centre mid one week, left wing two weeks later, left back the next week etc. Kodjia is still work in progress. As for Freeman, that was an embarrassing performance and he is totally devoid of confidence.

On the positive side, the goal apart, Matthews coped with Ince fairly well, the two centre halves did alright given the shambles of a midfield in front of them, Kodjia was a threat and there is definitely a player waiting to burst out in Reid.

I think LJ has enough nous to see that reinforcements are needed, it's not his fault the club appointed him too late to make a real impact in the last window and completely messed up the previous one.

But as I said, Derby are a good side and there is no point getting carried away when we get done by a side clearly better than us.

[Robbored]

Citys midfield has been lightweight ever since Wade Elliot hung up his boots and I'm sure that will have not gone unnoticed by LJ and he'll have at least one midfielder on his summer shopping list. 

Reid will become a decent midfielder but is still too lightweight. Derby dominated that part of the pitch last night.

[The Chaplain]

Wasn't there last night but sounds similar to Hull recently where Huddlestone and Livermore ran the show and effectively snuffed out any opportunity for us to get a foothold in the game as Billy said that gap in quality in the centre of the pitch is notable and expensive indeed.

[Super]

16 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Citys midfield has been lightweight ever since Wade Elliot hung up his boots and I'm sure that will have not gone unnoticed by LJ and he'll have at least one midfielder on his summer shopping list. 

Reid will become a decent midfielder but is still too lightweight. Derby dominated that part of the pitch last night.

I thought Reid did well last night, looked our main threat couldn't really understand why he was taken off.

[Robbored]

13 minutes ago, Super said:

I thought Reid did well last night, looked our main threat couldn't really understand why he was taken off.

He scored but for large sections of the game he, Smith and Pack were out manoeuvred by Derby. I thought Derby were a very decent outfit especially the emphasis on pressing City relentlessly.

 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

56 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

We got beat by a good side last night and the inadequacies of individual players is magnified playing against opposition like that. Their two central midfield players worked their knackers off and controlled the game, very impressed with them. Martin is a very good hold up player...would love someone like him up top for us. Ince has got quality. Their main weakness is defensively, you can get at them and with minimal possession we did at times.

Smith was as poor as I have seen him, Pack is not up to it if you are looking to finish top half and challenging for a play off spot. Tomlin tried to do too much. Reid had good moments but has to do a bit more next season. Bryan is suffering from too many positional changes, centre mid one week, left wing two weeks later, left back the next week etc. Kodjia is still work in progress. As for Freeman, that was an embarrassing performance and he is totally devoid of confidence.

On the positive side, the goal apart, Matthews coped with Ince fairly well, the two centre halves did alright given the shambles of a midfield in front of them, Kodjia was a threat and there is definitely a player waiting to burst out in Reid.

I think LJ has enough nous to see that reinforcements are needed, it's not his fault the club appointed him too late to make a real impact in the last window and completely messed up the previous one.

But as I said, Derby are a good side and there is no point getting carried away when we get done by a side clearly better than us.

Agree with all of that, although they were an ok team but we did match them for 20 minutes at the end of the first half and then stopped doing the stuff that enabled that, like Hull they were beatable, in the first 25 minutes of the first half, we allowed their defence too much time on the ball to play it around with ease, LJ obviously noticed that and we started to press their back 4 and the 2nd goal was a direct result of that pressing, the 2nd half we stopped the pressing and the inevitable happened. The most alarming thing for me was because the midfield was so weak in the 2nd half the amount of aimless balls and missed short pases that went astray was alarming, we ran out of ideas.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

8 hours ago, Donkeeebles said:

And Smith? 

Poorest game of the season by some distance, I thought.  Derby didn't give him any space and completely snuffed him out.

[redapple]

I thought Derby pressed us well all over the pitch . Sadly we couldn't cope . Passes went astray , movement stopped, heads dropped and confidence evaporated . Can't think of a single player who came out of it with credit . 

At least in the last weeks we've seen how good and how bad they can be , so LJ knows the task in hand . 

[Red-Robbo]

Smith's worst game in a City shirt potentially.  

I thought he looked like he was still carrying his injury. Pulled out of a number of challenges and covered a lot less ground than usual. 

I think if he'd been firing on all cylinders a number of those occasions when Derby players were able to just lurk on the outskirts of the box and pick a pass would have been cut out.

Sadly, we have no-one else who can do his job. Paper thin squad indeed.

[Olé]

10 hours ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

LJ needed a reminder about how paper thin our midfield is tonight was it, Reid scored a great goal but was generally totally ineffective, Pack was poor mom my arse, Bryan looked like a downs league player in the 2nd half, the game completely passed Tomlin by and Freeman was in and out of the game if Reid and Pack are first choice next season I predict a struggle.

Right summary wrong conclusion. The frailties you list are all true, but to call it "midfield" is a stretch and to single out Reid and Pack the wrong conclusion.

Reid is getting better with every game. The problem for me was Tomlin was off his game, and he has been integral to our play since LJ took over - Kodjia makes the runs but it is Tomlin who is the outlet player who establishes our possession in the opposing half and gives teammates more time with simply a smart turn or incisive touch or back heel. Notice the difference in goals from midfield before and after Tomlin joined this season, something like 1 v 5. Last night he didn't get into the game, his touches went astray, and so we never created room for midfield to push on and establish itself, so conceded a lot of ground and possession.

In addition, as you rightly say Joe Bryan had a mare - in fact both full backs were poor - both giving the ball away too cheaply and failing to cut out the cross. It may be that this was a reflection of the amount of pressure they were under due to failing to establish any rhythm or time as an attacking team, as above. Taken together it matches your assessment but I don't know how you conclude this is the midfield itself, which by no means was great, but certainly wasn't as poor as Tomlin or Bryan were. Yes Freeman was poor, but he knew it himself, and in recent games I for one have seen evidence of him working on his weaknesses.

Anyway, that's my view, which is easier to form with a proper view of the pitch, although it does make me one of the c**ts not singing over there 

[Nogbad the Bad]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

Citys midfield has been lightweight ever since Wade Elliot hung up his boots and I'm sure that will have not gone unnoticed by LJ and he'll have at least one midfielder on his summer shopping list. 

Reid will become a decent midfielder but is still too lightweight. Derby dominated that part of the pitch last night.

I suspect what we've seen recently from BR is as good as it's going to get. He's not going to get more 'heavyweight' in his mid 20's, so what's going to change?

For the record, as far from his biggest fan, I thought BR was the pick of our midfield last night. His usual couple of good moments (plus the goal) meaning he 'affected the game' more than the others, even if, as ever, his impact was confined to a few short spells.

When we're on top Bobby Reid can be an asset, when we're not he's unlikely to ever help turn the tide.

Mind you I thought the other midfielders all had games to forget so not much competition for BR there. Pack (jaded and slow) Freeman (confidence completely shot) Tomlin (poor game, hopefully a one off) and, as Captain, the particularly disappointing Smith, did very little of note between them.

I think we're looking at a couple of new players in midfield, one of them a leader and Captain figure, because Smith wasn't up to that job last night.

I'm still hopeful for Freeman that he can put a pretty awful season behind him and come back fresh with confidence renewed after the Summer break, but he does almost appear to expect to cock up nearly every time he gets the ball and that might be a hard mental habit to break. The end of the season can't come too quickly for Luke.

I think most of us can see what a good player he can be when his confidence is up so this confidence issue is something well worth working on by LJ and others in a position to do so.

[Robbored]

5 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

I suspect what we've seen recently from BR is as good as it's going to get. He's not going to get more 'heavyweight' in his mid 20's, so what's going to change?

I think most of us can see what a good player he can be when his confidence is up so this confidence issue is something well worth working on by LJ and others in a position to do so.

Reid can beef up by more spending time in the gym particularly with the weights. Muscle weight is an asset when you play in the midfield. He has the footballing skills already now but he needs to work harder on his physique.

As for the confidence  issue that's certainly something that effects lots of players - not just in the City squad either. That's why many clubs utilise the skills of sports psychologists. I'm sure City either have one on the books or have one to call on.

[shelts]

Quite a few bad performances last night no point in moaning I'm sure Little Lee is more than aware of our failings in all areas. Pre season will be interesting and I expect quite a few in and out and a few suprises. We're not a million miles away from Derby. 

COYR

[nathredwood]

Bobby Reid and Marlon Pack had good games.

Pack was solid again like he has been for the last few weeks. Yes he made a couple bad passes but no more than any one else in a red shirt.

Bobby looked busy and looked like Smith of last year at times, hassling the opposition and chasing down the ball.

Korey Smith continued his poor run of form and looks half the player he was before his injury.

Luke Freeman should probably go in the summer. Poor all year with the odd flash. If you watch Tomlin's movement when we have the ball and compare it to Freeman you can see that he just doesn't have the knowledge. At one point Pack had the ball 10 yards from him and he turned his back and ran away!

Central Midfield for next year Reid, Pack and Smith with a decent signing to add to it. Build around Pack!

[TwoSheds]

Too much long ball from City everytime Flint had the ball its either back to the Keeper or hoofed up the pitch, ball then comes straigh  back  Derby played from the back building an attack. We need to use our midfield and play the ball up the park/wings etc. Most of the time they had 3 players marking Kodjia but he took his goal well. What happened at the start of the second half we were running around like headless chickens no one wanted to keep the ball. Hope we get the one point at Blackburn Saturday.

 

[Alex_BCFC]

Reid had a decent game - hope he keeps improving as he has done recently. Korey had his worst game for a while but he is only just back from injury and I reckon 2 games in 4 days didn't help him. Pack I thought was pretty average yet picked up MOTM (joke surely?). Kodjia and Reid were much better than him.

[Chairman Mao]

12 hours ago, hodge said:

The way I put it, he had 2 or 3 genuinely quality moments but was otherwise quiet.

exactly, and for a CAM that is what you want, a goal and a assist, plus would've had another it Kodjia had cut it back to him in the second half. Get him on the ball and he creates chances. Plus its refreshing to see someone move the ball as quickly as he does. Freeman is the polar opposite for example. 

[Nogbad the Bad]

2 hours ago, Robbored said:

Reid can beef up by more spending time in the gym particularly with the weights. Muscle weight is an asset when you play in the midfield. He has the footballing skills already now but he needs to work harder on his physique.

 

There's a limit to how much someone can work on bulking up their physique without affecting their natural athleticism.

In Reid's case the staff will have continuously made beefing him up a priority since, and even before, his first pro. contract 5 years ago.

I suspect he's reached his limit in that respect without adversely affecting his performances and we shouldn't expect to see a notable difference now he's approaching his mid 20's.

The question will continue to be does his natural ability outweigh his comparative weediness (for want of a better word) when compared to far more robust opponents. Is that skill so outstanding that it makes up for other deficiencies in a very physically combative area of the field? These deficiencies are not only in stature, but stamina, and the more defensive side of any midfielders responsibilities.

I personally don't think so, but LJ seems content to take him for what he is and use him sparingly for 70 minutes, and perfectly happy to leave him out altogether if the opposition don't suit his game.

That's a very generous position for a manager to take, and I know many have said it in previous years, but next season really must be make or break for Bobby imo.

[NOTBLUE]

Derby are fifth in the division,we are fourth from bottom,and that is because they are a better team than us,simple really.At least four or five decent signings needed just to compete against the top 7 or 8 teams in this division.

[Gillies Downs Leeds]

8 hours ago, Olé said:

Right summary wrong conclusion. The frailties you list are all true, but to call it "midfield" is a stretch and to single out Reid and Pack the wrong conclusion.

Reid is getting better with every game. The problem for me was Tomlin was off his game, and he has been integral to our play since LJ took over - Kodjia makes the runs but it is Tomlin who is the outlet player who establishes our possession in the opposing half and gives teammates more time with simply a smart turn or incisive touch or back heel. Notice the difference in goals from midfield before and after Tomlin joined this season, something like 1 v 5. Last night he didn't get into the game, his touches went astray, and so we never created room for midfield to push on and establish itself, so conceded a lot of ground and possession.

In addition, as you rightly say Joe Bryan had a mare - in fact both full backs were poor - both giving the ball away too cheaply and failing to cut out the cross. It may be that this was a reflection of the amount of pressure they were under due to failing to establish any rhythm or time as an attacking team, as above. Taken together it matches your assessment but I don't know how you conclude this is the midfield itself, which by no means was great, but certainly wasn't as poor as Tomlin or Bryan were. Yes Freeman was poor, but he knew it himself, and in recent games I for one have seen evidence of him working on his weaknesses.

Anyway, that's my view, which is easier to form with a proper view of the pitch, although it does make me one of the c**ts not singing over there 

I said the same with regards Lee Tomlin last night. He has been fantastic so far for us but last night, second half especially, he reminded me of Neil Kilkenny as all he was doing was standing and pointing.