Section 82: A Clash Of Cultures

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, shelts said:

So basically it's an Atyeo thing for standing and flag waving. I thought the South Stand might of become the new home end . 

Well I'm paying top dollar for my seat next season and I'm taking a flag, if the cheap seats can do it so can the prawn sandwich brigade. 

Its up to all of us to make the effort, look out for my 'ROBIN'.

it can't be seen by the TV cameras and won't say ULTRA so I can't see a problem.

[BCFCS82]

15 minutes ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

If only we had thousands of empty seats from which we could base a long term solution... 

Catch 22 isn't it. And you are right. Bristol Sports current model has little time for flags and singing. Which is a shame as a better atmosphere makes the product of live football much better. 

I know the club basically gave to option of Atyeo or A B Dolman, but either way if feels like we're being pushed into the smallest corner where differences become more prevalent. The question is, is there a way to convince the club to extend the platform as you said in your reply to shelts?

The club stated that there wouldn't of been any scope for expansion into any further blocks of the dolman. It was a case of 1400 season ticket holders and that would be it, "forever", plus you would of displaced many many season ticket holders. 

Could there be a way of convincing the club? I think that would have to be down to the fans in that area letting the club know they would be happy for things like flags and displays to happen.

I don't feel anyone should have to wave a flag, stand up for the game etc unless they want to, no one is the same in life. 

The further we go down the line with the rebuild, the harder it will be to displace fans who do not want to partake in displays, which as I have said previously is perfectly fine. 

From a personal point of view, was there an area for as you someone said a Liverpool style home end in the new build planned by the club? 

No do not think there was and this is where a lot of the issues have stemmed from. 

Any suggestions for improvements are welcome, but a lot is tied to what the club will or won't allow.  

[Phileas Fogg]

11 minutes ago, BCFCS82 said:

The club stated that there wouldn't of been any scope for expansion into any further blocks of the dolman. It was a case of 1400 season ticket holders and that would be it, "forever", plus you would of displaced many many season ticket holders. 

Could there be a way of convincing the club? I think that would have to be down to the fans in that area letting the club know they would be happy for things like flags and displays to happen.

I don't feel anyone should have to wave a flag, stand up for the game etc unless they want to, no one is the same in life. 

The further we go down the line with the rebuild, the harder it will be to displace fans who do not want to partake in displays, which as I have said previously is perfectly fine. 

From a personal point of view, was there an area for as you someone said a Liverpool style home end in the new build planned by the club? 

No do not think there was and this is where a lot of the issues have stemmed from. 

Any suggestions for improvements are welcome, but a lot is tied to what the club will or won't allow.  

I really think, sadly, the club have always covertly had the intention of phasing out any sort of lively support. I always feel they've associated it with problems and would rather erode it gradually - whilst giving the impression of being accommodating.

[Bristol Rob]

26 minutes ago, BCFCS82 said:

The club stated that there wouldn't of been any scope for expansion into any further blocks of the dolman. It was a case of 1400 season ticket holders and that would be it, "forever", plus you would of displaced many many season ticket holders. 

Could there be a way of convincing the club? I think that would have to be down to the fans in that area letting the club know they would be happy for things like flags and displays to happen.

I don't feel anyone should have to wave a flag, stand up for the game etc unless they want to, no one is the same in life. 

The further we go down the line with the rebuild, the harder it will be to displace fans who do not want to partake in displays, which as I have said previously is perfectly fine. 

From a personal point of view, was there an area for as you someone said a Liverpool style home end in the new build planned by the club? 

No do not think there was and this is where a lot of the issues have stemmed from. 

Any suggestions for improvements are welcome, but a lot is tied to what the club will or won't allow.  

Bit confused by that. Section82 have previously stated THEY DIDN'T want to use Block A of the Dolman because it would mean moving existing season ticket holders, and now you are stating that this was a club decision.

[BCFCS82]

2 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Bit confused by that. Section82 have previously stated THEY DIDN'T want to use Block A of the Dolman because it would mean moving existing season ticket holders, and now you are stating that this was a club decision.

Apologises for any confusion, I meant the only options for next season allowed by the club was Doman A and B or the atyeo. 

[Welcome To The Jungle]

2 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Bit confused by that. Section82 have previously stated THEY DIDN'T want to use Block A of the Dolman because it would mean moving existing season ticket holders, and now you are stating that this was a club decision.

I believe the club offered two options

A) Stay in the Atyeo at a reduced number of fans of around 1000

B) 1400 in Dolman A and B with no possibility to expand the section.

Given option B would cause a lot more chaos for very little gain, I believe the decision was right. But either way we are being slowly shoved into a corner.

[Drew Peacock]

40 minutes ago, Countryfile said:

Well I'm paying top dollar for my seat next season and I'm taking a flag, if the cheap seats can do it so can the prawn sandwich brigade. 

Its up to all of us to make the effort, look out for my 'ROBIN'.

it can't be seen by the TV cameras and won't say ULTRA so I can't see a problem.

I thought the cameras were going into the Dolman? Or has that changed.

You had better not be sitting (or standing!) in front of me....

[One Team In Keynsham]

53 minutes ago, Countryfile said:

Well I'm paying top dollar for my seat next season and I'm taking a flag, if the cheap seats can do it so can the prawn sandwich brigade. 

Its up to all of us to make the effort, look out for my 'ROBIN'.

it can't be seen by the TV cameras and won't say ULTRA so I can't see a problem.

My butler is bringing mine.  Flag and sandwich, that is.

[Guest]

I'm one of the Ateyo dividers: more arm-crossed spectator. I don't mind the flags flying during 90mins and arm waving one bit, but all I ask is don't fart.. And chavvy kids stood on seats when you can stand in any case; that really grinds my gears. 

[EnclosureSurge]

5 hours ago, CyderInACan said:

Really? How bizarre. Surely the "spectacle" (or otherwise) on the pitch is of primary concern to every fan; S82, Ultra, Non-Singing or otherwise? 

But by focussing one's 'passion' on the noise, colour and atmos first and foremost, and the performance second, then no matter where we are in the league, no matter how well/poorly we're playing the noise, colour and atmos will hopefully remain more or less constant. If one's sole or main focus is how we're doing on the pitch, Cyder, then one could end up well deflated and the atmos disappears with it. Turning up determined to make noise firstly and above all else will supercede events on the pitch and - hopefully if there are enough people similarly focussed - give us an intimidating home ground.

But it's not for everyone, as I think we can conclude from all this, and it's not the 'right' way to support. As Welcome points out, it is one of a myriad ways of supporting.

[CyderInACan]

1 hour ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

Catch 22 isn't it. And you are right. Bristol Sports current model has little time for flags and singing. Which is a shame as a better atmosphere makes the product of live football much better. 

Where in the ground is Catch 22 and can I sing and wave flags? 

[Cowshed]

Section 82 and no al calcio moderno?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Drew Peacock said:

I thought the cameras were going into the Dolman? Or has that changed.

You had better not be sitting (or standing!) in front of me....

I thought there was a camera stage at the back of the new Williams?

I will stand and I will hang my flag...so there.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, One Team In Keynsham said:

My butler is bringing mine.  Flag and sandwich, that is.

I look forward to seeing your flag, if the butler hasn't got an ST he ain't getting in.

[Alan Dicks]

Generally the atmosphere at football matches is trash these day due to all seater.

Bring back terracing I say

[One Team In Keynsham]

31 minutes ago, Countryfile said:

I look forward to seeing your flag, if the butler hasn't got an ST he ain't getting in.

He borrows the housekeeper's.

[Lanterne Rouge]

3 minutes ago, One Team In Keynsham said:

He borrows the housekeeper's.

So what do the chauffeur and gardener do? POTD?

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, One Team In Keynsham said:

He borrows the housekeeper's.

I do need to remind you that Season tickets are non transferable.

You Could lose the ticket If discovered, best keep the housekeeper in her / his place.

[Dave]

Were all these issues in place when our standing/singing section were in their previous two locations, the original East End and last season in the Williams Stand. As I sat in the wheelchair in front of this area last season and don't remember chants abusing fellow City fans in other stands.

Also, I have said before that Season Ticket holders in Dolman Stand A and B could and should have been asked their views on this becoming a standing/singing area. In order to determine the size of the issue, as some may have wanted to stand and sing, some may have moved to one of our newer stands. Then we could have seen the size of the problem. But we will never know.

 

[BCFCS82]

18 minutes ago, Dave said:

Were all these issues in place when our standing/singing section were in their previous two locations, the original East End and last season in the Williams Stand. As I sat in the wheelchair in front of this area last season and don't remember chants abusing fellow City fans in other stands.

Also, I have said before that Season Ticket holders in Dolman Stand A and B could and should have been asked their views on this becoming a standing/singing area. In order to determine the size of the issue, as some may have wanted to stand and sing, some may have moved to one of our newer stands. Then we could have seen the size of the problem. But we will never know.

 

You are probably right in regards to A and B of dolman, but there wouldn't of been any club led consultation over it, it would of just happened then followed by Almighty backlash from fans. Either way fans would be unhappy, it's a massive catch 22. 

I agree with what you said about the abuse, I personally didn't use the word or join in with the song but as I have said previously you can't tar a whole area with one brush, in any stand. 

Everyone is different in life and all types of support is important as another, there are no superfans at Ashton Gate, everyone is equally important. 

[Dave]

I was not judging all in the Atyeo, but the topic is called Clash of Cultures and was wondering if this was in evidence in the previous seasons.

My point is that there should have been some consultation, so all parties could make a reasoned decision. It could have been investigated from the moment people in Dolman A and B bought there season tickets for the 2015/16 season.

Remember for a period at the end of the promotion season people were moved out of Block A.

 

 

 

[finbarr_in_z]

We had terraces back in the 1980's and we stood where we want, and yelled & hollered. I never saw any internet discussions about this issue back then

There's your answer..........

[pongo88]

23 minutes ago, finbarr_in_z said:

We had terraces back in the 1980's and we stood where we want, and yelled & hollered. I never saw any internet discussions about this issue back then

There's your answer..........

Not trying to be funny, but the reason you didn't see any Internet discussions in the 1980s is because there weren't any! Online fans forums are relatively new, and have pros and cons. If fans didn't like something in the 80s they could have a moan at the pub etc, but there was no online method of discussing something with large numbers of other fans. We've got 23 pages about the new kit! In the 80s a new kit was just announced and it was like it or lump it. 

[WTMS]

10 hours ago, Dave said:

Were all these issues in place when our standing/singing section were in their previous two locations, the original East End and last season in the Williams Stand. As I sat in the wheelchair in front of this area last season and don't remember chants abusing fellow City fans in other stands.

 

The ideas behind re-opening the Eastend where different. People occasionally had the odd issue  ... A drum once was once thrown down the steps for example, but the idea presented to Mr Lansdown was to be clearly inclusive. The idea of a singing section did not exist.

 

[Mad Cyril]

10 hours ago, pongo88 said:

Not trying to be funny, but the reason you didn't see any Internet discussions in the 1980s is because there weren't any! Online fans forums are relatively new, and have pros and cons. If fans didn't like something in the 80s they could have a moan at the pub etc, but there was no online method of discussing something with large numbers of other fans. We've got 23 pages about the new kit! In the 80s a new kit was just announced and it was like it or lump it. 

No Internet? Rubbish!

If that were the case, why have our home shirts have been bearing the hashtag logo since 1892?

Do your research please.

[cityloyal473]

13 hours ago, Alan Dicks said:

Generally the atmosphere at football matches is trash these day due to all seater.

Bring back terracing I say

Whilst it's true that all seater stadiums have diminished the atmosphere to an extent; I believe most of the loss of atmosphere is down to the change in the make up of fans, and what is/isn't acceptable in grounds these days.  Grounds have lost the 'edge' they used to have.  

[Eddie Hitler]

5 minutes ago, cityloyal473 said:

Whilst it's true that all seater stadiums have diminished the atmosphere to an extent; I believe most of the loss of atmosphere is down to the change in the make up of fans, and what is/isn't acceptable in grounds these days.  Grounds have lost the 'edge' they used to have.  

Personally I do put most of the lack of atmosphere down to forcing people to sit in low, uncomfortable plastic chairs.

When you are standing you are constantly on the move, head turning, shifting position. You are far more involved physically in the twists and turns of the game, you turn to face play, tense yourself to jump if there's a goal.

You're more involved, more alert, more likely to sing or jump or have a little swaying dance to celebrate.

And you are far, far, more likely to sing.

[cityloyal473]

3 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

Personally I do put most of the lack of atmosphere down to forcing people to sit in low, uncomfortable plastic chairs.

When you are standing you are constantly on the move, head turning, shifting position. You are far more involved physically in the twists and turns of the game, you turn to face play, tense yourself to jump if there's a goal.

You're more involved, more alert, more likely to sing or jump or have a little swaying dance to celebrate.

And you are far, far, more likely to sing.

I still don't agree.  Many teams in leagues one and two have terraces and their atmospheres are poor.  Even those world famous ultras over at the Sags struggle to get an atmosphere going on their terraces. 

[Robbored]

13 hours ago, Alan Dicks said:

Generally the atmosphere at football matches is trash these day due to all seater.

Bring back terracing I say

I'm sure Liecester City fans wouldn't agree with that statement. Everytime their home games are on TV you can almost feel the atmosphere coming out of the tele. The commentators all comment on how vibrant the stadium is.

On the topic of this thread. It's not "cultural" at all. It's a generational difference - just as it always has been. When the younger supporters are gathered together they get jingoistic and pour scorn on their own fans for not singing and chanting as they do.

It was exactly the same 40+ years ago when my mates and I all did exactly the same when stood in the EE.

[Phileas Fogg]

2 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I'm sure Liecester City fans wouldn't agree with that statement. Everytime their home games are on TV you can almost feel the atmosphere coming out of the tele. The commentators all comment on how vibrant the stadium is.

On the topic of this thread. It's not "cultural" at all. It's a generational difference - just as it always has been. When the younger supporters are gathered together they get jingoistic and pour scorn on their own fans for not singing and chanting as they do.

It was exactly the same 40+ years ago when my mates and I all did exactly the same when stood in the EE.

Leicester is a poor example as they are an anomaly. They're a 'small' club on the verge of winning the title, it's exceptional circumstances and every club in the country would have a good home atmosphere in that scenario. 

Put Leicester at the bottom of the Championship and the atmosphere would be just like anywhere else.