Away fans in south stand!!

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Bowie said:

It's views such as his and his previous comment which are the reason that the club were willing to let an element of the fan base stay in the atyeo.

Celebrated in many a corporate area at grounds around a country but have been aware that you have to be sensible, never had a problem.   Corporate areas such as this are very new at Ashton Gate and are going to take some getting used to for some people.  

I guess it's this sensible never had a problem scenario that is so difficult to quantify.

I suggested jokingly earlier that I might book for 50 of my Cardiff mates to come over and take advantage of the hospitality.

Where would any of us draw the line, or is there no line to be drawn, in the current climate of football attendance.

Charlie says he had Newcastle fans with him In his box, did he know them personally? Probably.  If the group of Newcastle  supporters were indeed from the same company (I managed to avoid the word firm there) it's quite possible that they new each other as work colleagues, but may have no knowledge of the attitude to football those people might have outside of work.

What I'm trying to say is that it's possible these guests could have been in trouble or looking for trouble before, but because they were corporate it was OK to sit them amongst home fans, we don't know, I'm sure the club wouldn't think to vet them, why should they?

Likewise how many home fans were surprised and perhaps felt a little or a lot threatened by the presence of away supporters, when they (the home fans) thought they were sitting in a home fans only stand.

I've said before it's the clubs responsibility to deal with this, if they feel the corporate money warrants seating away fans in home areas then they should come out and say so and make it quite clear these people are welcome guests and no animosity towards them will be tolerated, those of us who have no wish to sit amongst away fans (for our own reasons) can then request to be moved.

At no time during the advertising or sale of STs in the SS has it been mentioned that there was a likelihood of an away fan presence in what is clearly a home stand.

I apologise for making further comment when I said I wouldn't.

[Charliesboots]

2 minutes ago, Countryfile said:

I guess it's this sensible never had a problem scenario that is so difficult to quantify.

I suggested jokingly earlier that I might book for 50 of my Cardiff mates to come over and take advantage of the hospitality.

Where would any of us draw the line, or is there no line to be drawn, in the current climate of football attendance.

Charlie says he had Newcastle fans with him In his box, did he know them personally? Probably.  If the group of Newcastle  supporters were indeed from the same company (I managed to avoid the word firm there) it's quite possible that they new each other as work colleagues, but may have no knowledge of the attitude to football those people might have outside of work.

What I'm trying to say is that it's possible these guests could have been in trouble or looking for trouble before, but because they were corporate it was OK to sit them amongst home fans, we don't know, I'm sure the club wouldn't think to vet them, why should they?

Likewise how many home fans were surprised and perhaps felt a little or a lot threatened by the presence of away supporters, when they (the home fans) thought they were sitting in a home fans only stand.

I've said before it's the clubs responsibility to deal with this, if they feel the corporate money warrants seating away fans in home areas then they should come out and say so and make it quite clear these people are welcome guests and no animosity towards them will be tolerated, those of us who have no wish to sit amongst away fans (for our own reasons) can then request to be moved.

At no time during the advertising or sale of STs in the SS has it been mentioned that there was a likelihood of an away fan presence in what is clearly a home stand.

I apologise for making further comment when I said I wouldn't.

Good points. 

 

[richwwtk]

14 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

Rich for an avowed right on PC pacifist you don't half sail close to the wind on some of your comments. Rather provocative if I may say so. I am being pilloried by several of you for promoting the concept of respecting your hosts and recognising that if such respect isn't shown then there is a strong possibility of getting into a very difficult situationand I don't "need help" for holding that view.

There is nothing wrong at all with the concept of respecting your hosts. Where it falls into wrongness is your support for people being physically attacked if they happen to not show the appropriate respect.

I presume the point at which respect is not being shown is left up to the people dishing out the beatings to decide as well?

Wouldn't removal from the stadium following an initial warning be a more appropriate response for people that are perceived to be a little overzealous in their celebrations?

[Charliesboots]

21 minutes ago, Alan Dicks' Barmy Army said:

I would be embarrassed that someone would invite a fellow city fans to share hospitality with this guy. . . 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/comment/sports-direct-attacked-for-workhouse-conditions-but-they-are-by-no-means-unique-to-mike-ashleys-a7150571.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36465404

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/aug/22/sports-direct-pays-mike-ashleys-older-brother-international-delivery

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/new-accounts-reveal-rangers-could-8645538

 

Don't believe everything you read in the newspapers, I mean somethings got to sell them these days. 

I'd also suggest that the football club ownership and fit and proper persons debate is one for another thread. 

[Cowshed]

Rich depending on your perception is of atmosphere my opinion is that you wager incorrectly. Segregation began at Ashton Gate in the mid seventies. Post segregation the atmosphere improved. At times it was truly special.

Hooliganism's zenith was the mid to late eighties. Ninety minutes in the Dolman v Cardiff, Rovers, Millwall was physically and mentally draining, it was also exhilarating for those on the periphery of that tribalism. The intensity has not been matched since.

[Natchfever]

3 minutes ago, richwwtk said:

There is nothing wrong at all with the concept of respecting your hosts. Where it falls into wrongness is your support for people being physically attacked if they happen to not show the appropriate respect.

I presume the point at which respect is not being shown is left up to the people dishing out the beatings to decide as well?

Wouldn't removal from the stadium following an initial warning be a more appropriate response for people that are perceived to be a little overzealous in their celebrations?

I believe if any away fan was found to be in a home area they should be prosecuted and be the subject of a banning order.

[gordie]

2 hours ago, Charliesboots said:

My attitude is one of peace and harmony, inviting you to join me at Newcastle to show you there is no issue with away supporters enjoying the facilities on offer to visiting hospitality guests.

Your attitude is one of inciting violence towards me by others. 

I'm happy to see away supporters use our hospitality facilities and provide welcome revenue to the club. 

Your happy to see violence perpetuated on them, by your very statement of the same towards me. 

I'm embarrassed for you and embarrassed to call you a fellow supporter. 

Even as that may be, the offer stands. Perhaps you might reconsider. 

If you can get me a free flight hotel  ticket and cider I will take you up on your offer :@))

[Charliesboots]

3 minutes ago, gordie said:

If you can get me a free flight hotel  ticket and cider I will take you up on your offer :@))

See now that's the spirit!

[richwwtk]

3 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Rich depending on your perception is of atmosphere my opinion is that you wager incorrectly. Segregation began at Ashton Gate in the mid seventies. Post segregation the atmosphere improved. At times it was truly special.

Hooliganism's zenith was the mid to late eighties. Ninety minutes in the Dolman v Cardiff, Rovers, Millwall was physically and mentally draining, it was also exhilarating for those on the periphery of that tribalism. The intensity has not been matched since.

Possibly, my experience of football is from the mid-eighties onwards.

My personal view is that the atmosphere is lessened these days following the loss of terracing. In this respect the hooligan element were responsible for killing the atmosphere in the long run rather than enhancing it.

I will admit that being in the middle of a terrace whilst people were brawling all around was, in a way, exciting, but it was not something I ever had the slightest inclination to indulge in or added to any atmosphere. What made the atmosphere was the feeling of being on a jam packed terrace with the singing and chanting in support of City. The fighting inevitably caused this to end as people were either looking to join in or doing their best to avoid it.

I also think there is a case of rose tinted specs. The atmosphere was dire at many games in the eighties just as it can be now. It was only the big games that people really remember, and they are great to this day.

[RumRed]

The worst behaviour I've seen in years is at the races and that's not even a partisan sport.

just a bunch of Oiks and over privileged jocks flashing the cash and not being able to hold their booze/coke.

[richwwtk]

14 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

I believe if any away fan was found to be in a home area they should be prosecuted and be the subject of a banning order.

Weren't these fans in Hospitality and therefore not in a home or away designated spot?

[Natchfever]

1 minute ago, richwwtk said:

Weren't these fans in Hospitality and therefore not in a home or away designated spot?

There were also fans in the south stand.

And my comment above refers to any match of course.

[spudski]

45 minutes ago, Alan Dicks' Barmy Army said:

To be fair that is just nonsense

I've seen more trouble with Bath / Gloucester / Exeter rugby fans on trains than I have of football fans

Also seen incidents at Lords / Taunton / Bristol between cricket fans... Shall we also talk about rugby league too?

To say it only happens in football is the sort of comment a Sun reader that believed all the Hillsboro reporting to be true would make, not someone clearly knowledable like yourself

I'll agree I've seen 'trouble' at other sports, but it's a very rare occurrence. The times I've seen it at Rugby and cricket, it was carried out by people wearing football shirts...funny that ;-) Plus it's such a rare occurrence, that there is no need for segregation as there is at football.

It's a crazy scenario...if I want to watch an away game, I have to sit in an 'Away' end or section...often in a place of the ground I don't want to watch it from. Or go down the hospitality route.

It's mental that in 2016, I can buy a seat for pretty much any other sport, apart from football, just because a some football fans have no self control.

As someone else pointed out...a few City fans are going to have to get used to seeing 'Away' supporters celebrating near them. God forbid...people being offended.

You sit in the Directors box or hospitality and people celebrate scoring a goal...all mingling...yet you never see punches being thrown or aggression towards them...yet it's ok to do it in other parts of the ground!!!

 

[Bristol Rob]

18 minutes ago, richwwtk said:

Weren't these fans in Hospitality and therefore not in a home or away designated spot?

I think Loon wants hospitality to be less hospitable and more hospital.

If I have followed this correctly.

[Natchfever]

24 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

I think Loon wants hospitality to be less hospitable and more hospital.

If I have followed this correctly.

Harsh Rob..but funny !

 

[RedRock]

It's not difficult. Yet again though the Club have got it badly wrong.

It really does make you think that Bristol Sport  haven't a clue about football culture. Seemingly, just a load of suits who employ non-football Matchday announcers, hospitality organisers to go with the pretty inept state-of-the-art ticketing! 

We may/may not all want to live in a world where everybody is equal, has manners, takes their litter home, treat animals with respect.....blah, blah. Objectives to work towards maybe. But get a grip on reality people!

Football is tribal. It appeals to tribal instincts your town vs another's town. It's been like that since the day the game was created. There is a reason for the last 40 years of segregation. Just because we have a new shiny ground you will not change that culture overnight. 

Whoever is the absolute joker who thought it was a good idea to put away fans on hospitality in the home end should come out and apologise.

Hospitality to most will mean free booze, free booze means trouble because no matter what you tell people when they are sober, invariably they will get mouthy and cocky once under the influence. Hospitality ain't just for Lords and Ladies nowadays (they're normally too busy ripping defenceless animals to shreds contrary to the law), 'lads' will, and often do, get easy access. 

If you want to give away fans hospitality in the home end, you will have to create large sterile zones around them and police them properly. That negates the profit from the hospitality packages due to lost ticket sales. Alternatively, keep them indoors behind the glass where nobody can see or hear them. 

I know a Newcastle fan who went with a mate in the West Stand. Told him how to behave, to cover up his Newcastle screen saver and all went well and he thoroughly enjoyed his day out without causing any issues. All he did was silently clench is fist when they scored. It's called respect and respecting your hosts. In hospitality, groups of lads (who, no doubt, would be dishing out the same treatment to groups of City fans who made themselves known in their own home ends) fuelled with alcohol respect ain't going to happen. If the Club ain't going to control them, rightly or wrongly, there are many willing volunteers who will make sure they are respectful to their hosts. 

 

[spudski]

Where else are you going to put hospitality if it's not in a 'home section'? It is at every ground. We had it in the Williams before. Away fans often got up and cheered when their team scored. Usually got loads of verbal abuse, but that was it.

I don't think anyone is disputing football has a 'culture'.  But IMO...creating more segregation just fuels the fire of 'them and us'.

[Phileas Fogg]

14 minutes ago, spudski said:

Where else are you going to put hospitality if it's not in a 'home section'? It is at every ground. We had it in the Williams before. Away fans often got up and cheered when their team scored. Usually got loads of verbal abuse, but that was it.

I don't think anyone is disputing football has a 'culture'.  But IMO...creating more segregation just fuels the fire of 'them and us'.

I remember that quite clearly in the FA cup game vs Coventry - 07? When we took them to a replay and won.

I was in the Williams that day and they had a large presence in the directors box who stood up and audiably cheered when they scored. They weren't in the stand really though, in an isolated part with the Lansdowns etc. I don't remember it coming from the Premier Seating area. 

 

[spudski]

4 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I remember that quite clearly in the FA cup game vs Coventry - 07? When we took them to a replay and won.

I was in the Williams that day and they had a large presence in the directors box who stood up and audiably cheered when they scored. They weren't in the stand really though, in an isolated part with the Lansdowns etc. I don't remember it coming from the Premier Seating area. 

 

I used to sit in the Premier seating regularly in the Williams fella.

Away fans doing hospitality were often in there. Often they'd cheer...to be told to sit and shut up ;-)

I've sat in the Directors 'box' as well in the Williams as a guest and heard other clubs 'officials' cheer loudly when scoring...it was normal and excepted.

[Brizzol]

On 20/08/2016 at 19:20, BarnzFM said:

2 of the lads that ran right up to then throwing punches were sat right near me, think they're brothers and don't seem to have a brain cell between them.

I Just sat there embarrassed at some of our fans, loads of kids around looking fairly scared. 

I was one of the brothers and didn't throw any punches. Whilst my behaviour wasn't the greatest I would appreciate it if you didn't lie about what happened. Alcohol and the manner in which they celebrated was part of the reason I reacted the way I did. 

Also I didn't know away fans could be situated so close to us and don't think we would have purchased our seats there if this was known to us before we did. 

I think the club has got that wrong.

 

[gl1]

Serious question brizzol, what makes you want to run to / confront opposing fans?

not taking the michael, a genuine question. I just don't feel that way. Sure, I hate it when we concede but never enough to challenge someone. 

Were they giving it the big un to city fans around them (which being 1 of 6000 people wouldn't be a wise move) or only clapping/cheering etc

as  say, not asking for anything other than understanding a fellow reds motivations. 

[Guest]

Well here I am again breaking my own rule for the second time.

In general this has been a reasoned and valuable debate.

If those that don't want any segregation accept that at this time it is necessary, and those that don't want away corporates in the SS accept that it has and will happen, what about thinking of some possible solutions?

I have a possible, but feel free to shoot me down.

The club needs the revenue from the corporates, therefore room has to be made for them.

Make the Heineken corner the family section with part of it reserved for corporates, with the strict understanding that unreasonable behaviour will not be tolerated and that the area will be policed strictly by stewards fully trained to remove  anyone causing a problem (this has definitely been an issue at both home games).

If we are to believe the likes of Charlie and others, corporates will refrain from using bad language and are not prone to getting into fights, let's give them a chance.

For those who would like to see no segregation, this is a first step, introducing young fans  to the concept who will grow up with no segregation as part of their match day experience, while parents will have the assurance that it will be policed correctly.

Having moved the family section to that area the other corner could be used  to house the S82, singers, whatever you want to call them, freeing up the Atyeo to house entirely away fans, remembering that only 1,000 seats are required at the moment to house those fans, but there would be room to expand round towards the centre of the stand.

Over to you.

[Phileas Fogg]

3 minutes ago, Countryfile said:

Well here I am again breaking my own rule for the second time.

In general this has been a reasoned and valuable debate.

If those that don't want any segregation accept that at this time it is necessary, and those that don't want away corporates in the SS accept that it has and will happen, what about thinking of some possible solutions?

I have a possible, but feel free to shoot me down.

The club needs the revenue from the corporates, therefore room has to be made for them.

Make the Heineken corner the family section with part of it reserved for corporates, with the strict understanding that unreasonable behaviour will not be tolerated and that the area will be policed strictly by stewards fully trained to remove  anyone causing a problem (this has definitely been an issue at both home games).

If we are to believe the likes of Charlie and others, corporates will refrain from using bad language and are not prone to getting into fights, let's give them a chance.

For those who would like to see no segregation, this is a first step, introducing young fans  to the concept who will grow up with no segregation as part of their match day experience, while parents will have the assurance that it will be policed correctly.

Having moved the family section to that area the other corner could be used  to house the S82, singers, whatever you want to call them, freeing up the Atyeo to house entirely away fans, remembering that only 1,000 seats are required at the moment to house those fans, but there would be room to expand round towards the centre of the stand.

Over to you.

Sounds a very good idea. 

[RedRock]

41 minutes ago, gl1 said:

Serious question brizzol, what makes you want to run to / confront opposing fans?

not taking the michael, a genuine question. I just don't feel that way. Sure, I hate it when we concede but never enough to challenge someone. 

Were they giving it the big un to city fans around them (which being 1 of 6000 people wouldn't be a wise move) or only clapping/cheering etc

as  say, not asking for anything other than understanding a fellow reds motivations. 

Just out of interest, have you been in an opposing side's home end and 'clapped and cheered' when City scored? 

I've been in many home ends - entering with tickets printed in bold 'for home supporters only' -  and aside from a silent clenched fist when we scored I've not flinched, fully aware of the consequences. If I wanted to even just 'clap and cheer' - let alone take the **** - I'd make sure I was in a designated end for away supporters or, if unable to obtain an away ticket, not attend.  

[RedRock]

12 minutes ago, Countryfile said:

Well here I am again breaking my own rule for the second time.

In general this has been a reasoned and valuable debate.

If those that don't want any segregation accept that at this time it is necessary, and those that don't want away corporates in the SS accept that it has and will happen, what about thinking of some possible solutions?

I have a possible, but feel free to shoot me down.

The club needs the revenue from the corporates, therefore room has to be made for them.

Make the Heineken corner the family section with part of it reserved for corporates, with the strict understanding that unreasonable behaviour will not be tolerated and that the area will be policed strictly by stewards fully trained to remove  anyone causing a problem (this has definitely been an issue at both home games).

If we are to believe the likes of Charlie and others, corporates will refrain from using bad language and are not prone to getting into fights, let's give them a chance.

For those who would like to see no segregation, this is a first step, introducing young fans  to the concept who will grow up with no segregation as part of their match day experience, while parents will have the assurance that it will be policed correctly.

Having moved the family section to that area the other corner could be used  to house the S82, singers, whatever you want to call them, freeing up the Atyeo to house entirely away fans, remembering that only 1,000 seats are required at the moment to house those fans, but there would be room to expand round towards the centre of the stand.

Over to you.

I was going to suggest that... but the problem with corporates nowadays is that they aren't 'exclusive' to the well-behaved. Even I could have gone on one on Saturday :-)

The risk is just too great of exposing young children to foul language and violence. 

[BarnzFM]

1 hour ago, Brizzol said:

I was one of the brothers and didn't throw any punches. Whilst my behaviour wasn't the greatest I would appreciate it if you didn't lie about what happened. Alcohol and the manner in which they celebrated was part of the reason I reacted the way I did. 

Also I didn't know away fans could be situated so close to us and don't think we would have purchased our seats there if this was known to us before we did. 

I think the club has got that wrong.

 

Apologies, I lumped you in with the others and that wasn't right. I was pissed off because I was with young children 

Appreciate that you didn't know there could be away fans in hospitality and you'd had a few beers, but when reacting you need to think about who you've got around you - loads of young kids are sat in this area of the south stand and there were some that looked visably scared - not of the Newcastle fans but our own fans who reacted to a couple of fans who basically just cheered and punched the air.  Totally agree that the club got this wrong though - there's no way to distinguish this as a hospitality area so most people just assume they are in the cheap seats with us.

[Marlborough Red]

Brilliant suggestion from Countryfile .The idea of moving the family section to the Heineken area in the South Stand creating room for the Atyeo fans to move into the existing family area in the South Stand is an excellent idea.

•  It's a welcome return to the EAST END for these loyal and vociferous fans.
• Creates extra revenue for the Club with larger away followings now possible with reduced stewarding costs
• Standing in the corner next to the Dolman  (the EAST END) doesn't spoil anybody's view.
• Younger fans are distanced from the potentially robust language
• Away hospitality quests should be much safer in the family environment
• Currently the high number of empty seats in this family area now filled by flag waving supporters making a better spectacle on TV
• Atmosphere should spread easily with Dolman fans  and South Stand fans joining the songs.

Bristol Sport - let's do this next season (if not sooner)

[gl1]

29 minutes ago, Moor2Sea said:

Just out of interest, have you been in an opposing side's home end and 'clapped and cheered' when City scored? 

I've been in many home ends - entering with tickets printed in bold 'for home supporters only' -  and aside from a silent clenched fist when we scored I've not flinched, fully aware of the consequences. If I wanted to even just 'clap and cheer' - let alone take the **** - I'd make sure I was in a designated end for away supporters or, if unable to obtain an away ticket, not attend.  

Yes I've been in the home end as an away supporter and like you did a fist pump silently and moved on.

 

my question was what feelings come to brizzols (and others) mind to run and confront a fan.  A few years back I was working away and had to miss the palace play off home leg. I was staying in a hotel and in the lounge watching was a palace fan.  We sat side by side, watching, drinking beer with him celebrating loudly and fully at the palace header and then my equally as joyous celebration at subsequent city goals. 

No punches, no aggression, and as the 'victor' he got the beers in after, quick handshake and off we went. 

I was asking as I just don't get why people get aggressive at a celebration. Sure if he was goading, being violent I can kind of understand, but a pissed up bloke jumping up and down shouting 'yeaaaah' doesn't deserve a beating, surely?

 

emotions run high, I feel it like everyone else, but turning into violence or aggression? Never. 

[Brizzol]

6 minutes ago, BarnzFM said:

Apologies, I lumped you in with the others and that wasn't right. I was pissed off because I was with young children 

Appreciate that you didn't know there could be away fans in hospitality and you'd had a few beers, but when reacting you need to think about who you've got around you - loads of young kids are sat in this area of the south stand and there were some that looked visably scared - not of the Newcastle fans but our own fans who reacted to a couple of fans who basically just cheered and punched the air.  Totally agree that the club got this wrong though - there's no way to distinguish this as a hospitality area so most people just assume they are in the cheap seats with us.

It's not a problem bud, the way I was acting wasn't fair on those around me (especially the children) and I'm sorry for that. 

Now I'm aware of the possibility of away fans being there this won't happen from us again. I wouldn't want to scare off the future generation of city fans with my behaviour.

Hopefully the club will see there's an issue and there should be some form of segregation. There has been issues at both home fixtures now and it could continue if not properly addressed.

 

 

 

[Pezo]

20 minutes ago, Marlborough Red said:

Brilliant suggestion from Countryfile .The idea of moving the family section to the Heineken area in the South Stand creating room for the Atyeo fans to move into the existing family area in the South Stand is an excellent idea.

•  It's a welcome return to the EAST END for these loyal and vociferous fans.
• Creates extra revenue for the Club with larger away followings now possible with reduced stewarding costs
• Standing in the corner next to the Dolman  (the EAST END) doesn't spoil anybody's view.
• Younger fans are distanced from the potentially robust language
• Away hospitality quests should be much safer in the family environment
• Currently the high number of empty seats in this family area now filled by flag waving supporters making a better spectacle on TV
• Atmosphere should spread easily with Dolman fans  and South Stand fans joining the songs.

Bristol Sport - let's do this next season (if not sooner)

should have been done this season IMHO.