Good result in the end but...

[samo II]

3 minutes ago, redfieldred said:

The problem with Flint yesterday was poor communication with his keeper x 2. I think the 2nd goal was a result of the first. SOD would have called for the first goal which is why Flint didn't deal with it. Poor decision by SOD to come for the ball. Flint had it covered. So the second goal, SOD calls again I reckon. This time Flint thinks. No I'm dealing with this! Poor decision by Flint this time. 

I think you've nailed it there; it will be sorted out when they have some time to discuss it and set some ground rules (i.e. next time, the keeper is coming for it regardless, or Flint is on brief to smack it out for a corner or throw regardless).

They were discussing the first instance pretty much every break in play first half, and even Magnússon was involved, with both O'Donnell and Flint clearly telling him to hold position more, as his jogs into midfield were often leaving Flint alone to cover in behind, which exposes his lack of pace.

[spudski]

From the time the Rotherham player shoots for the second goal, and it hits Flint, it's less than a second. It was an instinctive reaction from a defender to try and block the shot. No way is a defender going to have time to think, 'I know, I'll let the keeper cover this one because of what happened before'. It was instinctive...yes the keeper may have had it covered, but in real time, it's instinct. 99/100 that would have cleared.

[formerly known as ivan]

Makes me laugh when people keep making comments like 'take Newcastle and Norwich out of the equation'!

Are they not two teams in our division which we have to play both home and away? Other teams will play them and take points from them this season. Let's not make them sound like Barcelona, they are in the championship for a reason!

We are now six league games and two cup games into the season and are still awaiting our first clean sheet. If that isn't a concern then something is wrong.

We can't rely on having to score 2 every game to stand a chance of winning.

The pressure is on Flint now with the options available to us. He shouldn't be deemed un-droppable.

However I still believe that part of the problem is in midfield. Even when Smith is back from injury he will take time to get up to speed. Pack has to start for me at Wednesday otherwise it could be a long night up there.

[Redtucks]

4 hours ago, billywedlock said:

What is footballing intelligence ?

It's what everyone on this forum has!!!

Haven't they???

 

 

[Jack Dawe]

30 minutes ago, Redtucks said:

It's what everyone on this forum has!!!

Haven't they???

 

 

No, but we all have an opinion. It is, after all,  "a game of opinions." 

[Jack Dawe]

After six games last season, we had conceded 14 goals. Six games into this we have conceded 7.

[Rudolf Hucker]

1 hour ago, redfieldred said:

The problem with Flint yesterday was poor communication with his keeper x 2. I think the 2nd goal was a result of the first. SOD would have called for the first goal which is why Flint didn't deal with it. Poor decision by SOD to come for the ball. Flint had it covered. So the second goal, SOD calls again I reckon. This time Flint thinks. No I'm dealing with this! Poor decision by Flint this time.

do you drop a player of undoubted strength and ability for one poor decision, or poor communication?  Remember port vale when his poor back pass cost us 2 points. Had we dropped him after that he wouldn't even be at the club now I reckon, 

Bloody O'Driscoll.

[JamesBCFC]

1 hour ago, formerly known as ivan said:

Makes me laugh when people keep making comments like 'take Newcastle and Norwich out of the equation'!

Are they not two teams in our division which we have to play both home and away? Other teams will play them and take points from them this season. Let's not make them sound like Barcelona, they are in the championship for a reason!

We are now six league games and two cup games into the season and are still awaiting our first clean sheet. If that isn't a concern then something is wrong.

We can't rely on having to score 2 every game to stand a chance of winning.

The pressure is on Flint now with the options available to us. He shouldn't be deemed un-droppable.

However I still believe that part of the problem is in midfield. Even when Smith is back from injury he will take time to get up to speed. Pack has to start for me at Wednesday otherwise it could be a long night up there.

No we aren't.

We are still awaiting a clean sheet in the league though

[cityexile]

29 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

No we aren't.

We are still awaiting a clean sheet in the league though

It is about steps forward. Before yesterday's mistakes at the back, we had also not conceded more than a goal a game. A huge step forward on last year.

The OG, just one of those things that happen. I am interested that the blame for the fist goal seems to be being placed almost solely on Flint however. At worst, it was 50/50 with ODonnell, and having watched it a few times, would put it 40/60 at the door of the latter. He kind of starts for it and then stops, thinking Flint is getting it. However, it is well in the box, and he is facing the right way as it were. I think you are entitled to think your goalie will get that as a defender. Flint is making himself big to stop any forward running straight through on it. 

Either way, it was 100% lack of communication between the two, and both have done very well overall. Just interested why this is seen entirely as Flint's mistake.

[RedM]

23 hours ago, EnclosureSurge said:

What? Seriously, what? I give up with this bloody forum.... Cheese. Under threat! Yeah, drop the ****er! Dear oh dear oh dear. 

Sorry you didn't understand my points, @Neo and @Robbored seemed to have grasped what I was trying to say. I don't want you to agree with me, that's your prerogative,  but with respect you haven't understood my post at all. 

[EnclosureSurge]

22 minutes ago, RedM said:

Sorry you didn't understand my points, @Neo and @Robbored seemed to have grasped what I was trying to say. I don't want you to agree with me, that's your prerogative,  but with respect you haven't understood my post at all. 

With respect, this one's been put to bed hours ago.

With respect, I think I fully understand your post.

With respect, I think I understand, "But is this the first time his place has been seriously under threat" and am entitled to disagree 100%. His place is neither 'seriously' or even half-heartedly under threat. Two schools of thought for this, 1) Ekstrand is not competition as yet, his place on the bench notwithstanding, as he's been injured a lot and has not had the same pre-season as the rest of the squad; 2) Flint has no threat from anyone, being our no 1 choice centre half. Centre-halves aren't really the position you go chopping and changing on a whim or - careful, whisper it - after 2 mistakes in a year. This (in general, not Flint/Magnusson) is a partnership that needs to be given more time than other partnerships. Strikers swap all the time, centre-midfield even, but centre-halves, no, the risk is too great. If you don't know this you haven't played/watched football enough (not that I have, specifically, but it's a fairly well-known unwritten theme). Lee Johnson will be not in a million miles thinking Flint's place is anything like under threat. Ekstrand is injury cover, nothing more, certainly not for now.

I will state this again and again, Flint is more than just our no 1 centre half, he is talismanic, the beat of our team (haven't seen Tomlin become this yet, although I love him) and captain in all but armband (which I find odd) and to even consider Flint's "place [is] seriously under threat" shows 1) how much I understand your post and 2) how wrong you are - in my opinion - as well as others who think he can be considered being replaced/dropped/given a rest/whatever you want to call it.

Seriously, drop him and watch us concede 4.

Just my opinion and you're entitled to yours. But I think, with respect, I fully understand your post.

[Chairman Mao]

10 hours ago, Rudolf Hucker said:

Bloody O'Driscoll.

Lumbering us with the likes of Flint and Pack is enough to make my blood boil 

[RedM]

@EnclosureSurge I didn't realise there was a time limit to reply to posts.

Well folks, I guess we know Flinty's user name on here now 

[Meh]

33 minutes ago, EnclosureSurge said:

With respect, this one's been put to bed hours ago.

With respect, I think I fully understand your post.

With respect, I think I understand, "But is this the first time his place has been seriously under threat" and am entitled to disagree 100%. His place is neither 'seriously' or even half-heartedly under threat. Two schools of thought for this, 1) Ekstrand is not competition as yet, his place on the bench notwithstanding, as he's been injured a lot and has not had the same pre-season as the rest of the squad; 2) Flint has no threat from anyone, being our no 1 choice centre half. Centre-halves aren't really the position you go chopping and changing on a whim or - careful, whisper it - after 2 mistakes in a year. This (in general, not Flint/Magnusson) is a partnership that needs to be given more time than other partnerships. Strikers swap all the time, centre-midfield even, but centre-halves, no, the risk is too great. If you don't know this you haven't played/watched football enough (not that I have, specifically, but it's a fairly well-known unwritten theme). Lee Johnson will be not in a million miles thinking Flint's place is anything like under threat. Ekstrand is injury cover, nothing more, certainly not for now.

I will state this again and again, Flint is more than just our no 1 centre half, he is talismanic, the beat of our team (haven't seen Tomlin become this yet, although I love him) and captain in all but armband (which I find odd) and to even consider Flint's "place [is] seriously under threat" shows 1) how much I understand your post and 2) how wrong you are - in my opinion - as well as others who think he can be considered being replaced/dropped/given a rest/whatever you want to call it.

Seriously, drop him and watch us concede 4.

Just my opinion and you're entitled to yours. But I think, with respect, I fully understand your post.

I believe we may actually go to a back 3 if Ekstrand stays fit with Moore as cover and the option of reverting to 4 if needed.

But if we stay as a back 4 and Ekstrand gets and then stays fit I firmly believe Flint will be the casualty or certainly start less games than Ekstrand and Magnusson do.

Obviously time will tell - either way I will be happy as both our good players at this level.

BTW - don't give a toss about mistakes - they happen - I just think LJ by his comment about Ekstrand rates him highly - if totally fit!

[Phileas Fogg]

23 minutes ago, EnclosureSurge said:

2) Flint has no threat from anyone, being our no 1 choice centre half.

 

Quote

Lee Johnson will be not in a million miles thinking Flint's place is anything like under threat. Ekstrand is injury cover, nothing more, certainly not for now.

 

I wouldn't be so sure about either of these points, lots of assumptions made here. I think the days where someone is just bought in as 'cover' are dwindling now. We're building a squad that's got competition throughout and that's no different for Flint. Ekstrand is a very good defender and will push the others hard.

[cidered abroad]

Aden Flint will never win Footballer of the year. He will never be considered as one of the world's greatest ball playing defenders. He will never become a polished defender like a Bobby Moore.

But what he does have is guts and a determination to do his best. He is, as others have said, our talisman, the heartbeat of this team and I will never criticise anyone like Flint who gives us 110% every time he pulls on the shirt. Without such as him, the free flowing ball players will never have a stage on which to produce their magic. Long live Aden Flint! 

[ChippenhamRed]

5 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

Aden Flint will never win Footballer of the year. He will never be considered as one of the world's greatest ball playing defenders. He will never become a polished defender like a Bobby Moore.

But what he does have is guts and a determination to do his best. He is, as others have said, our talisman, the heartbeat of this team and I will never criticise anyone like Flint who gives us 110% every time he pulls on the shirt. Without such as him, the free flowing ball players will never have a stage on which to produce their magic. Long live Aden Flint! 

You know how I was saying yesterday how his cult status makes him less likely to be criticised....

[EnclosureSurge]

36 minutes ago, RedM said:

@EnclosureSurge I didn't realise there was a time limit to reply to posts.

Well folks, I guess we know Flinty's user name on here now 

No, I'm his dad, as posted elsewhere on this, frankly, in my opinion, now boring topic. We can all agree: he's good, he makes some mistakes, he's not undroppable, he's a talisman, Ekstrand is more than a sub. Good stuff. We really must be stuck for summat to chat about if we are debating Flint's dropability this much. All hail ChppRed, he was right after all. Flint is not no. 1, John Pender is. We all must post inside an hour to this or we're deemed irrelevant. Flint stars in Casualty. I'm his dad. Cheers.

[Meh]

9 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

You know how I was saying yesterday how his cult status makes him less likely to be criticised....

That is what is puzzling me - I have read many posts since yesterday and the level of "criticism" is nothing.

I think the lack of criticism considering he had a bad day has shown the admiration and respect we all have for Flint and will continue to have yet some  see the need to fervently defend him like he is being lambasted to death - simply is not happening - just merely suggesting that he might not necessarily remain the stalwart of the team he has been for the last few years if the new competitors prove their fitness and worth.

[Phileas Fogg]

22 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

You know how I was saying yesterday how his cult status makes him less likely to be criticised....

Exactly, strange mentality to pledge you'll 'never criticise someone who gives 110%'. Any footballer is open to criticism, all criticism of his performance yesterday is completely valid. Because he's seen as a bit of character he gets a lot more leeway with our fans. 

[EnclosureSurge]

33 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Exactly, strange mentality to pledge you'll 'never criticise someone who gives 110%'. Any footballer is open to criticism, all criticism of his performance yesterday is completely valid. Because he's seen as a bit of character he gets a lot more leeway with our fans. 

Heaven forbid someone be given leeway. Cor.

[Phileas Fogg]

40 minutes ago, EnclosureSurge said:

Heaven forbid someone be given leeway. Cor.

What? Someone shouldn't be immune to the same scrutiny as others because people like what they see of their personalities. 

[EnclosureSurge]

8 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

What? Someone shouldn't be immune to the same scrutiny as others because people like what they see of their personalities. 

If you've read my previous comments on Flint, I've stated that it's my view he is a long way from being considered as either under threat for his place or droppable at the moment given he has made less mistakes than practically anyone on the pitch for us (in fact the only mistake anyone can tell me about is in a meaningless cup game v WBA). When I say mistake, I mean that either lead to a goal or caused us trouble. As I've written before this isn't about him misplacing a pass, he's not there primarily to do that, and his passing has improved anyway. Centre-halves , along with keepers, are in the most vulnerable of positions: if they make one mistake it could cost a goal and people remember it (although, as I've pointed out, no-one can tell me more than one mistake he's made in the last 2 years, that lead to a goal - although there was one in L1, so that's 2 in 2 years, plus Saturday). Strikers miss a chance, another one comes along a few minutes later and it's (mostly) forgotten. Midfielders still have another bank of 4 to protect them from mistakes. Centre-halves have no such luxury. Yet Flint has been pretty much error-free. That's not good enough for some people on here as he is being given leeway apparently. Leeway for what, though? As I say, I can't see the mistakes he's making for which I am giving him leeway, but if someone can point them out to me...

He, like everyone, is under scrutiny. Esp on this bloody forum. Yet, given extra special scrutiny in this thread, no-one can point out these here mistakes he is making (I've gone over Saturday's errors somewhere else on this boring thread, now). 

Nothing to do with 'personality' (which I can't see I have mentioned), everything to do with performance. he has been the most consistent performer at the club in over 25 months.

[ChippenhamRed]

Sad times for the FA Cup when a third round tie against Premier League opposition, where we took 5,000 away and sold out at home is described as "meaningless".

[RedM]

@EnclosureSurge I hope this post is within the time limit you alone impose on me, but I just can't understand why you deem this subject 'put to bed' and say the thread is 'boring'and then continue to 'debate'. Are you the sort of poster who just wants the last word and is always right, if so take a bow I can't be bothered with you any more. Perhaps you could leave the thread to people who want to want it. The thread will fade in its own good time.

For the record I have never said I wanted Flint dropped.

[Jack Dawe]

20 minutes ago, RedM said:

@EnclosureSurge I hope this post is within the time limit you alone impose on me, but I just can't understand why you deem this subject 'put to bed' and say the thread is 'boring'and then continue to 'debate'. Are you the sort of poster who just wants the last word and is always right, if so take a bow I can't be bothered with you any more. Perhaps you could leave the thread to people who want to want it. The thread will fade in its own good time.

For the record I have never said I wanted Flint dropped.

This was all put to bed but it's woken up now. And it's not had a good night.

Let's get back to the OP's original point: would putting Pack in the middle lead to the desired clean sheets (and he doesn't want to drop Bobby, so who is dropped? Please don't say Flint)

[EnclosureSurge]

55 minutes ago, RedM said:

@EnclosureSurge I hope this post is within the time limit you alone impose on me, but I just can't understand why you deem this subject 'put to bed' and say the thread is 'boring'and then continue to 'debate'. Are you the sort of poster who just wants the last word and is always right, if so take a bow I can't be bothered with you any more. Perhaps you could leave the thread to people who want to want it. The thread will fade in its own good time.

For the record I have never said I wanted Flint dropped.

Ok. And that's my last word. (Some people are so easily wound up!!)

[EnclosureSurge]

1 hour ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Sad times for the FA Cup when a third round tie against Premier League opposition, where we took 5,000 away and sold out at home is described as "meaningless".

Hey, what is this, gang up on me, thread? I thought we were all allowed an opinion. Maybe bot. Well, mine is the FA Cup is meaningless. I'm not alone - witness the drop in attendance for these games at all grounds. It was sold out (well, it was 15,000) at home because it was £10 a ticket. It wouldn't sell out otherwise. Why else make the tickets £10? The taking of 5,000 is fantastic. I never said it wasn't, you just assumed that. It was also very meaningless in my opinion (if I may be permitted one by this rabble of bullies - that should get'm started...) in that it distracted us from or may have resulted in injuries to players needed for our relegation fight. Unless a 4th Round draw at Peterboro is meaningful. Or helpful. Or inspiration-ful. 

Cheese, some people just can't take a wind-up, can they? Now, you all have 45 mins to answer, starting...now...

[EnclosureSurge]

Sorry. That is my last word.

[Whitchurch1966]

23 hours ago, cityexile said:

It is about steps forward. Before yesterday's mistakes at the back, we had also not conceded more than a goal a game. A huge step forward on last year.

The OG, just one of those things that happen. I am interested that the blame for the fist goal seems to be being placed almost solely on Flint however. At worst, it was 50/50 with ODonnell, and having watched it a few times, would put it 40/60 at the door of the latter. He kind of starts for it and then stops, thinking Flint is getting it. However, it is well in the box, and he is facing the right way as it were. I think you are entitled to think your goalie will get that as a defender. Flint is making himself big to stop any forward running straight through on it. 

Either way, it was 100% lack of communication between the two, and both have done very well overall. Just interested why this is seen entirely as Flint's mistake.

You always here the experts on MoTD saying that the centre half needs to take control and put it in Row Z.