Steve cotterill

[mr belgos]

9 hours ago, BCFC_Dan said:

He failed in the Championship with City because he wouldn't give up on the players or style of play that worked in league one and because he spent too long chasing a marquee signing rather than bringing in decent Championship players. I think he genuinely believed that a couple of top class additions would see City blow sides away like they had in the league below and he was just waiting for it to happen.

Coming into a new club I'd expect him to do what he did when he arrived at City which is to look at the squad and work out the best lineup and tactics to firstly survive and secondly to push on.

Whether he could repeat the trick with Villa remains to be seen, but the particular fault that led to his demise at City did not ought to affect him initially (or at all if he learns from it).

 

I met him last month at St Georges and had a good chat with him he was naturally disappointed to get the sack and he believed the 3 signings he wanted would have got us promoted.

Also mentioned the continual political intereference he came across at board level but this has changed since Mark Ashton became involved.

 

i wish him well

 

 

[JamesBCFC]

6 hours ago, spudski said:

It's not like that fella tbh...

SC did bring success in Promotion from League 1 in double quick time. And the records will show that. History can't be taken away...and his record will shine for that.

However...you can build success that is sustainable, and have a realistic long term plan, that most importantly is going in the same direction that was agreed with the rest of the Club...ie the board, Owner, Coach's and Academy.

This is where you are either a good manager...or someone that see's it purely as a short term fix.

Imo, you are not a good manager if you are bringing short term success, to the detriment of the rest of the Club.

That short term success of promotion was unsustainable, because of what was happening behind the scenes. It was falling apart...BIG TIME.

And this is why I don't rate SC...I don't like the man, the way he works, or how he conducts himself.

Like I said...the majority of fans will see the Promotion...but they wont see the carnage in it's wake.

What's the point of gaining promotion if you are wrecking the Club within, and taking it back down again. Because of poor management, pig headedness and not sticking to the agreed plan....as well as other attributes I wont go into.

I agree Spud, I think Mourinho is a shit manager too.

[milo1111]

7 hours ago, reformed_red said:

1. Steve Cotterill will not get the Aston Villa job.

2. Steve Cotterill was a fantastic manager at Bristol City; he halted our slide, took us up and won a cup.

3. Some fans need to remember point 2.

4. Steve Cotterill's shelf-life at City ran out - he took us as far as he could; we needed to build something sustainable for the next level.

5. Lee Johnson is the right man for the job outlined in point for, contrary to those fans who wrote him off before he even got here.

6. I wonder what may have happened had SC been given another 2 to 3 weeks, and we brought in MA and signed the players we did..??

7. In reference to point 6, and in hindsight, SC and MA would have been 'entertaining' double act, resulting in a punch up and a relegation.

8. We are in a better place as a club, but we owe thanks to SC for building the team that he did, as much of that team is still the backbone here now.

9. I'm tired of making points now.

Some excellent points but in response to 6. I could never of seen cotts making room for tommo in the team.

[AshtonGreat]

9 hours ago, GasDestroyer said:

Perfect fit for Aston Villa,  club with no idea employs a manager with no idea!!!!! 

A manager who gave us the best season in living memory

[AshtonGreat]

It's a curious situation when one manager who gave us two trophies, including an unprecedented title, is seen by some as an embarrassing dinosaur, while another, who's not yet been here a full season and hasn't yet won anything, is the best manager we've ever had 

[spudski]

5 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

It's a curious situation when one manager who gave us two trophies, including an unprecedented title, is seen by some as an embarrassing dinosaur, while another, who's not yet been here a full season and hasn't yet won anything, is the best manager we've ever had 

Absolutely ridiculous over statement fella...who has said LJ is the best manager we've ever had? No one...so why make that up?

With respect... I ask this in all fairness. Apart from watching the games under SC, and seeing the results to promotion, do you have any idea of what went on behind the scenes at AG, or is it all just an opinion based on what has been released by the Club or the media?

Do you know anything about what was going on behind the scenes? You are welcome to pm me.

Because in all fairness...if you did, you wouldn't have the same opinion you have now.

In my sporting profession I've won titles... yet I know I'm a dinosaur now, because there are younger professionals in the game, who are up to doing the job better than me....even though they haven't won anything.

Just because SC won a League 1 title...it doesn't mean he can do it in the Championship. I suggest his record shows that...but more importantly, you have to be working with the Club...not against it. As soon as you think you are bigger than the Club you are screwed.

Without trying to sound contrite...you really do seem to be coming from an angle, where you are only looking at a league 1 title, rather than the bigger picture.

[reformed_red]

50 minutes ago, milo1111 said:

Some excellent points but in response to 6. I could never of seen cotts making room for tommo in the team.

Please refer to point 7.

[AshtonGreat]

10 minutes ago, spudski said:

Absolutely ridiculous over statement fella...who has said LJ is the best manager we've ever had? No one...so why make that up?

With respect... I ask this in all fairness. Apart from watching the games under SC, and seeing the results to promotion, do you have any idea of what went on behind the scenes at AG, or is it all just an opinion based on what has been released by the Club or the media?

Do you know anything about what was going on behind the scenes? You are welcome to pm me.

Because in all fairness...if you did, you wouldn't have the same opinion you have now.

In my sporting profession I've won titles... yet I know I'm a dinosaur now, because there are younger professionals in the game, who are up to doing the job better than me....even though they haven't won anything.

Just because SC won a League 1 title...it doesn't mean he can do it in the Championship. I suggest his record shows that...but more importantly, you have to be working with the Club...not against it. As soon as you think you are bigger than the Club you are screwed.

Without trying to sound contrite...you really do seem to be coming from an angle, where you are only looking at a league 1 title, rather than the bigger picture.

I wasn't having a dig at you, I was referring to the overall theme of some of the comments on here. 

The point is that your average fan, including me, doesn't get to hear about what goes on behind the scenes. That's the kind of stuff you only find out about when such and such a manager publishes his bestselling memoirs ten years later. Therefore, the only thing we have to go on is what happens on a Saturday afternoon and, hopefully, at the end of a season. I don't think I'm alone in judging managers on that basis. In fact, virtually every manager in history has been defined by their results and trophies won (or not). 

[spudski]

2 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

I wasn't having a dig at you, I was referring to the overall theme of some of the comments on here. 

The point is that your average fan, including me, doesn't get to hear about what goes on behind the scenes. That's the kind of stuff you only find out about when such and such a manager publishes his bestselling memoirs ten years later. Therefore, the only thing we have to go on is what happens on a Saturday afternoon and, hopefully, at the end of a season. I don't think I'm alone in judging managers on that basis. In fact, virtually every manager in history has been defined by their results and trophies won (or not). 

Fair comment fella...no problem with you. I get it...it's just very frustrating from my point of view. All good mate.

[TheCulturalBomb]

I hope regardless of where he goes next, the next time he visits Ashton Gate he will get a fantastic reception for what he did here. And I won't be the first to say I was gutted when he left, but the future is what is is and Lee Johnson is the now.

[AshtonGreat]

8 minutes ago, spudski said:

Fair comment fella...no problem with you. I get it...it's just very frustrating from my point of view. All good mate.

I understand it must be mate. Is there any reason why you can't be more specific about the things you allude to? Either way, we probably all spend too much time playing verbal tennis over these things. Maybe we should just enjoy the football! ;-)

[Phileas Fogg]

11 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

I understand it must be mate. Is there any reason why you can't be more specific about the things you allude to? Either way, we probably all spend too much time playing verbal tennis over these things. Maybe we should just enjoy the football! ;-)

It's important to discuss though because it contributes directly to how much people enjoy the football. It provides a wider context and helps explain things.

Shame that we as fans mostly only get to see a % of any given managers work, the results on match day. We don't get to see their training, man management, transfer targets and dealings, youth team involvement etc.. we only see one section and it's what, primarily, most managers are judged on.

[Phileas Fogg]

13 minutes ago, TheCulturalBomb said:

I hope regardless of where he goes next, the next time he visits Ashton Gate he will get a fantastic reception for what he did here. And I won't be the first to say I was gutted when he left, but the future is what is is and Lee Johnson is the now.

Yes he'll get a great reception regardless of who's he's managing.

It's the nature of management but I feel that people don't feel like they properly got to show their appreciation or say goodbye. It's a ruthless business like that.

Was definitely the right time for him to go though, and I was pleased that he did as things were going very badly. Probably should've gone much earlier. Was pretty clear from that Yeovil interview in pre season that things weren't good.

[spudski]

20 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

I understand it must be mate. Is there any reason why you can't be more specific about the things you allude to? Either way, we probably all spend too much time playing verbal tennis over these things. Maybe we should just enjoy the football! ;-)

I have many times in the past...but not in detail... you just can't go into detail because of all the implications. It is so frustrating...and some on here will have sympathy with that situation.

Unfortunately a few posters who gave good accounts have been hounded out, because they couldn't disclose details... You would be surprised who has been on here trying to put things straight in a stealth like manner.

For the good of the game...football needs to be more transparent. However, it's a closed shop and business, even more so these days.

Fair play to the LJ and his team...he speaks freely about his football ideas...but they are very guarded when it comes to transfer dealings. Never known it so professional.

 

[havanatopia]

46 minutes ago, TheCulturalBomb said:

I hope regardless of where he goes next, the next time he visits Ashton Gate he will get a fantastic reception for what he did here. And I won't be the first to say I was gutted when he left, but the future is what is is and Lee Johnson is the now.

I would like to think Steve C would be delighted for City at the start Lee Johnson has made and the latter appreciate that he inherited a team capable of competing at this level. Without it the task would have taken longer.

In other words, the reputation of both has been enhanced since Steve Cotterill has left the club. 

[Up The City!]

1 hour ago, TheCulturalBomb said:

I hope regardless of where he goes next, the next time he visits Ashton Gate he will get a fantastic reception for what he did here. And I won't be the first to say I was gutted when he left, but the future is what is is and Lee Johnson is the now.

He got a fantastic reception from me following those successes.

Sadly after that he was found out at this level mainly due to his stubborness.

If he does ever return to AG he will not ever receive any sort of reception from me. As you say it's the now and the future that is important and on that da, if it ever comes, I'll be putting all my energies into supporting  LJ and his team.

The way he left us wasn't very nice, no transfer plans, refusing to work with Ashton, not changing formation etc. For me that took away any credit he had for taking us up and now my feelings are very neutral.

[Son of Fred]

12 hours ago, Robin1988 said:

Not beyond the confines of it didn't happen, but then that's about as far is it can ever go on here. I could be Steve Cotterill, I could be a 50-year-old man called Brian.

How you doing,Colin???

[Robin1988]

I see the Spudski unbeatable argument of 'I know what happened on the inside and you don't' has just trumped everything again.

[pongo88]

23 minutes ago, Robin1988 said:

I see the Spudski unbeatable argument of 'I know what happened on the inside and you don't' has just trumped everything again.

You can tell when he's about to use this arguement, as he calls a poster "fella"

[BS3City]

I've followed City for 40 years, and apart from the odd highlight here and there have generally witnessed frustration, disappointment and lack of achievement. Years ago I would grab the Evening Post at every opportunity for any scrap of City related content. Then the internet came along, and since that time my thirst for information has been slightly more satisfied. Yet as I've never been "ITK" all of my observations and opinions have been gained from these searches and from what I've witnessed on the pitch. For those reasons Cotts promotion season is without doubt the most memorable I have seen. I've read a lot of the stories and accusations of what was going on behind the scenes, and I understand that it must be incredibly frustrating for some not to be able to tell it as it was. However, for Mr Ordinary like me SC's achievement that year (judged solely by performances on the pitch) will never be forgotten, and for that he deserves respect. Yes he had to go, undoubtedly he was flawed and things went wrong, yes LJ and MA are the way forward and we are in a massively better place. But let's never forget how SC and our team absolutely steamrolled the league that year and made us probably the proudest fans in the country.

[Robin1988]

17 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

You can tell when he's about to use this arguement, as he calls a poster "fella"

Another day, another fella.

Nothing against your knowledge Spudski which is probably as good as you say, but having an argument which is essentially I know what happened on the inside, I can't tell you what but I know more than you doesn't make for great debate.

And from the few tidbits I'm lucky enough to pick up from the inside now and then it's not a particularly accurate representation of the truth on this occasion either

[Alessandro]

18 hours ago, Robin1988 said:

For a start, Dwight Gayle's name wasn't even mentioned until August, which I believe doesn't constitute all summer, so there's your first tale.

Secondly, plenty of feasible targets were identified and left with the board, but the behind-the-scenes work, which Mark Ashton has done so well this year, was non-existent.

Do you really think this interview (in July, by the way) was an off-the-cuff comment about transfers, and not a thought-out pop at the board?

Out of interest, which transfer comments are you referring too being a pop at the board?

The bit where he said "we're looking at numerous targets, probably like most our competitors, that's the most difficult thing at this time. There's a lot of competition out there for he players we're looking at."

Or the bit about being able to field two teams tonight if we had signed everyone available to Bristol City, but he only wants players who improve the first team. I.E a marquee signing. 

The bit about the difficult market, the spike in it? The wanting to wait for the window to close and see who might be available when it shuts?

Personally cannot read any digs at the board in anything he said there. 

[Port Said Red]

I think that there is right on both sides of the argument about SC and the fact that almost any thread that mentions him becomes this same debate is testament to that.

I understand Spudski's point about the old school management style and agree with him. It does seem that sometimes that style can have a short term effect. I studied different Management styles as I worked as a Management Trainer for a large part of my career and some studies show that installing a fear factor can have a positive effect on productivity and performance for a short term. After that, resentment kicks in, cliques form ( some are seen as more favoured) and either the manager has to change or the team he has under him has to. I think this happened to GJ to a certain extent too.

As far as recruitment is concerned and when targets were identified, I think it is telling that LJ has been quoted as saying they are looking for Tammy's replacement now! Not January, not May, but now. Clearly LJ is happy to work with someone like MA and they are looking for same things when they identify a player, I never really got the impression that SC was on the same wavelength with MA or would be happy to share an element of "his job" with him, but I am just speculating there.

Nothing I have said here is intended as a criticism of SC, he did a great job for us and will always be appreciated for that, he certainly left us a better legacy than GJ in terms of squad, which was a big disappointment for me. It's just that there are different management styles and as an outsider I like the LJ style more and never wanted a Manager to be successful more than I do right now.

[Mr Popodopolous]

The Cotterill era for me:

1) He got us going after years of decline culminated us being in the bottom of League One.

2) 99 points and nearly 100 goals- a season which saw us go unbeaten until mid November, won JPT as well! A double and some thrilling football. 

3) As others have stated he left us a decent squad- some useful sell on value as well, mainly Kodjia but also Agard, Williams and Ayling were of the right age.

4) Wilbraham- an inspired free transfer if ever one existed, indeed most of his business up to but not necessarily including summer 2015 was good.

5) Yes things went wrong in summer 2015 and the final months.

The formation though...nothing wrong with 3-5-2 perse and it is quite capable of working at a higher level than League One. Perhaps not with us at that stage though...so he should have changed that.

Nonetheless an impressive reign on balance I feel, and if he returns I for one will give him applause! It would have been interesting too had he been able to sign Maguire, Lees and Gray/Gayle.

[spudski]

3 minutes ago, Robin1988 said:

Another day, another fella.

Nothing against your knowledge Spudski which is probably as good as you say, but having an argument which is essentially I know what happened on the inside, I can't tell you what but I know more than you doesn't make for great debate.

And from the few tidbits I'm lucky enough to pick up from the inside now and then it's not a particularly accurate representation of the truth on this occasion either

Fair enough mate... ( not fella this time...as it seems to irk some ).

It's not about 'Trumping' or being ITK...it's just so frustrating reading 'debate' when a lot of it is so far off the mark.

As Billy Wedlock said in a previous post...he knows what was going on too...as do a few others on here, who pm'd me in the past.. I'm surprised more haven't let rip on the actual forum tbh.

There were some posters on here, who don't bother posting anymore, because they just couldn't be bothered with the little digs and remarks.

How I see it...if you know something, why not try and readdress the balance of a topic, by saying what is allowable without getting yourself in to trouble.

People can read it and digest it. They don't have to agree with it...but it's a bit unfair to have a go at posters, if they give opinion based on more than just what is in the media.

You can't win.

I won't go into which threads...but there have been employees at the club who have come on here to try and 'put the truth out there, when threads are way off the mark...They've done it stealth like...and you wouldn't know who they were.

As you know...the media read forums and take what is written as a reflection of what the fan base are thinking.

I'm not going to say anything more on this subject again...I've probably said enough over the months on it.

As for debating on what happened...based on what people think happened...why do that with such authority and passion, and say it like it's something we actually know, when in fact it's just an opinion based on what we think might have happened, purely based on media snippets and random quotes by ex managers?

Surely posting and debating with such a belief in one's opinion being 'FACT' is a bit futile, when it's just an opinion based on media snippets?

Maybe it's worth thinking, that when putting out that 'opinion', it's being read by 'people' who are not just fans...and they are coughing into their cornflakes if you get my drift.

Debate on football I get...but speaking about what happened in the transfer market is another thing.

[Nogbad the Bad]

11 hours ago, milo1111 said:

Some excellent points but in response to 6. I could never of seen cotts making room for tommo in the team.

Negotiations for LT's loan move were under way before SC left, so there's really no doubt SC both wanted Tomlin, and would have played him

Tomlin eventually signed in the interim, after SC had left, and about 10 days before LJ was announced.

It may even be that SC's departure, and the resulting uncertainty at the club was a factor in delaying the deal, although LT and Bournemouth were no doubt also waiting to see what other offers came in before making a final decision.

 

8 hours ago, Up The City! said:

He got a fantastic reception from me following those successes.

Sadly after that he was found out at this level mainly due to his stubborness.

If he does ever return to AG he will not ever receive any sort of reception from me. As you say it's the now and the future that is important and on that da, if it ever comes, I'll be putting all my energies into supporting  LJ and his team.

The way he left us wasn't very nice, no transfer plans, refusing to work with Ashton, not changing formation etc. For me that took away any credit he had for taking us up and now my feelings are very neutral.

I don't think that's true, see above.

As I understood it Mark Ashton was already involved in his 2nd 'consultancy' role at AG in January when SC was still here, before being appointed permanently more or less the day after SC left iirc.

All the players signed during that window would either have been SC's choices, or were being pursued with his approval.

We signed O'Donnell, Gladwin, Pearce, Golbourne and Tomlin and more than one stated their moves to City had been on the cards for some considerable time and how happy they were everything was finally sorted out.

SC may well have resented Ashton's return to an extent, there may well have been a clash of personalities, but their paths had crossed successfully before at AG in the much lauded 2014 window so the idea he 'refused to work' with him again is pure conjecture. 

[Phileas Fogg]

5 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Negotiations for LT's loan move were under way before SC left, so there's really no doubt SC both wanted Tomlin, and would have played him

Tomlin eventually signed in the interim, after SC had left, and about 10 days before LJ was announced.

Where did you hear that about Tomlin? I may have overlooked it somehow but I haven't seen any evidence to suggest he was a target before SC left. 

[Nogbad the Bad]

13 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Where did you hear that about Tomlin? I may have overlooked it somehow but I haven't seen any evidence to suggest he was a target before SC left. 

I remember hearing it at the time.

It also stands to reason that all players signed in that window would have been on a list previously compiled by Burt and his team, and approved by SC, rather than the alternative of MA coming in, ignoring the list, and any contact already made, and promptly swooping for completely different players, at a time when City were between managers and time remaining in the window was short.

[Phileas Fogg]

6 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

I remember hearing it at the time.

It also stands to reason that all players signed in that window would have been on a list previously compiled by Burt and his team, and approved by SC, rather than the alternative of MA coming in, ignoring the list, and any contact already made, and promptly swooping for completely different players, at a time when City were between managers and time remaining in the window was short.

Hmm, not convinced. Can you pull up any links to press reports about it?

I remember the impression I got from Golbourne signing in particular that he was very much Pemberton's signing. There may have been some overlap but there was an impression of a clean slate of personnel coinciding with a change of formation.

Presumably any Burt/SC targets would've been for the since abandoned 532 formation. They may not have fitted in with Pemberton/Ashton's other ideas.

Could Tomlin really play in a 532? He's not as industrious as Freeman and you need to be in a midfield 3. I'd be surprised if he was a real target.

[downendcity]

2 hours ago, spudski said:

Fair enough mate... ( not fella this time...as it seems to irk some ).

It's not about 'Trumping' or being ITK...it's just so frustrating reading 'debate' when a lot of it is so far off the mark.

As Billy Wedlock said in a previous post...he knows what was going on too...as do a few others on here, who pm'd me in the past.. I'm surprised more haven't let rip on the actual forum tbh.

There were some posters on here, who don't bother posting anymore, because they just couldn't be bothered with the little digs and remarks.

How I see it...if you know something, why not try and readdress the balance of a topic, by saying what is allowable without getting yourself in to trouble.

People can read it and digest it. They don't have to agree with it...but it's a bit unfair to have a go at posters, if they give opinion based on more than just what is in the media.

You can't win.

I won't go into which threads...but there have been employees at the club who have come on here to try and 'put the truth out there, when threads are way off the mark...They've done it stealth like...and you wouldn't know who they were.

As you know...the media read forums and take what is written as a reflection of what the fan base are thinking.

I'm not going to say anything more on this subject again...I've probably said enough over the months on it.

As for debating on what happened...based on what people think happened...why do that with such authority and passion, and say it like it's something we actually know, when in fact it's just an opinion based on what we think might have happened, purely based on media snippets and random quotes by ex managers?

Surely posting and debating with such a belief in one's opinion being 'FACT' is a bit futile, when it's just an opinion based on media snippets?

Maybe it's worth thinking, that when putting out that 'opinion', it's being read by 'people' who are not just fans...and they are coughing into their cornflakes if you get my drift.

Debate on football I get...but speaking about what happened in the transfer market is another thing.

I've always worked on the principle that when things go wrong or not according to plan, there is usually more than one person at fault and two sides to the argument - depending on who you speak to.

Football management seems to be about relationships.  A manager has to maintain relationships with  the board, a chief executive, players and his own coaching staff. 

If any of those relationships becomes strained, for whatever reason, then it can easily impact on the others.

There seems to be a bigger "team" working with the manager these days and LJ, as a younger manager seems to comfortable working in such a structure. Since he's been here everything seems to have fallen into place nicely, but the real test will come when he suffers some setbacks or perhaps doesn't get what he wants. If that happens can he maintain all those relationships as well?

Cotts us from a previous generation of managers used to making most of the decisions themselves.  I don't know what happened the summer following  promotion, but it seemed to me that SC didn't get what he wanted from above him but then let that affect his relationship with people he was working with.

We had a part filled subs bench when he could have picked youth team.players. this appeared to me to " prove a point".more importantly it affected team performance, which was ultimately what got him the sack.

A good number of the promotion team that were branded not good enough last season ate now performing strongly under LJ, so did SC let what appears to have been a breakdown of the rations hip with board and/or owner also affect his other working relationships to the ultimate detriment of the team's performance.

Whatever the cause or reason, SC's demise was a blessing in disguise. There seems little doubt that LJ is a forward thinking manager ( attitude to making sure s could not be more enlightened than SC) and as such is a much better fit for the way that the overall management of BCFC is now structured.

I can see LJ being much more comfortable working within a corporate management team and prepared to let others, such as MA, take decisions that traditional managers would want to keep control of. 

SC made an important contribution in getting promotion far sooner than we expected. I was sorry and spruced that we did not kick on and was sorry to see him leave, but  with hindsight hope and think it could have been one of the best things to have happened for some time as it led to LJ coming in, which in turn seems to be the final part of the club's restructuring.