Donkeeebles Posted December 14, 2016 Report Share Posted December 14, 2016 In March 2010 GJ left the club "by mutual consent" with City 15th in the Championship table. 6 years and 6 managers later we lie 15th in the Championship table. In an age where clubs continually sack manager after manager in the hope of getting immediate success, a tactic that continually fails in most cases, do you think clubs would do better sticking by managers through good times and bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddoh Posted December 14, 2016 Report Share Posted December 14, 2016 I think that like for players there should be transfer windows for Managers all we have to decide is which team to use as the model Arsenal,Exeter or Leeds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted December 14, 2016 Report Share Posted December 14, 2016 The club is now much more stable than 6 years ago when GJ was sacked. That's entirely down to SL realising that the football industry is like no other and has since employed "football" people to run the club in his absence. Thats made a massive difference. The only similarity between GJ and LJ is that they are closely related by blood and that's all IMO. Two very different people in pretty much every other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marina's Rolls Royce Posted December 14, 2016 Report Share Posted December 14, 2016 Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 18 hours ago, Robbored said: The club is now much more stable than 6 years ago when GJ was sacked. That's entirely down to SL realising that the football industry is like no other and has since employed "football" people to run the club in his absence. Thats made a massive difference. The only similarity between GJ and LJ is that they are closely related by blood and that's all IMO. Two very different people in pretty much every other way. Do you think so ? LJ may be modern in his football terminology and more 'modern' generally but I think they may be more similar than you'd like to believe ( I hope I'm right and he has his the best of his Dads qualities) If he achieves a managerial record to match his Dads I'll be very impressed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 3 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Do you think so ? LJ is a breath of fresh air in my view but obviously still lacking managerial experience but is growing every game. His interviews are open and he's very honest about his selections and formations. He explains himself very well. Because of his candour I could listen to him all day. I like the way he conducts himself. He strikes me as a sophisticated guy. His dad was the complete opposite. Talked a lot but actually said or revealed very little. I saw GJ on the local sports news on Monday after Cheltenham lost again and are just above the drop zone. Guess what? He made thinly veiled threats towards his players just as he used to do at City........ Thought to myself "he's just the same one trick pony". If LJ has learnt anything from his dad, it's what not to do as a manager. Should LJ becomes a success at City I can see him managing higher up in the PL at some stage. You definitely couldn't say that about his dad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 14 minutes ago, Robbored said: LJ is a breath of fresh air in my view but obviously still lacking managerial experience but is growing every game. His interviews are open and he's very honest about his selections and formations. He explains himself very well. Because of his candour I could listen to him all day. I that His dad was the complete opposite. Talked a lot but actually said or revealed very little. I saw GJ on the local sports news on Monday after Cheltenham lost again and are just above the drop zone. Guess what? He made thinly veiled threats towards his players just as he used to do at City........ Thought to myself "he's just the same one trick pony". If LJ has learnt anything from his dad, it's what not to do as a manager. Should LJ becomes a success at City I can see him managing higher up in the PL at some stage. You definitely couldn't say that about his dad. One trick pony or not he got the best out of , on the face of it , unspectacular players and plenty of players performed under him so to think he's a one trick pony ( Might we'll have been a well used trick but the only one ? ) is laughable Lets hope you're right about LJs managerial potential but the fact that you think he is sophisticated or whether fans like him or don't is ultimately neither here or there Accepting its important he conducts himself well for Clubs Image ( I appreciated him as a player more than most but he's definitely more ' animated ' and emotional as a manager ! Shall we say) but it's much more important that the players think of him and see him positively and together with his footballing knowledge that will , ( and the resultant level of success or not ) will define his success or otherwise as a manager. Still think you may be surprised how similar Dad and son may be Time will tell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INCRED Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 19 hours ago, Donkeeebles said: In March 2010 GJ left the club "by mutual consent" with City 15th in the Championship table. 6 years and 6 managers later we lie 15th in the Championship table. In an age where clubs continually sack manager after manager in the hope of getting immediate success, a tactic that continually fails in most cases, do you think clubs would do better sticking by managers through good times and bad? I don't think Lansdown will sack LJ so soon, GJ had a good few years to get us to the Prem and fell just short. LJ will be given time - at least another 2 years to build his team. If we fail to progress or go backwards then he will suffer the same fate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 @Robbored As for ' Talked a lot but actually said or revealed very little. ' - he talked to players at least for sure and most of them seemed to understand what he had to Say and performed , by and large , I'd suggest above their potential , at least as a unit , on a match day I'd suggest Lee talks to media just as much as his Dad and is a different character to his Dad in that way ( Don't forget that LJ has dug players publicly in media ROD Sheff Weds springs to mind and I'm not sure I can remember GJ digging out individuals publicly , in dressing room certainly ) you are letting a burning personal agenda affect affect both your judgement and comments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 19 hours ago, Donkeeebles said: In March 2010 GJ left the club "by mutual consent" with City 15th in the Championship table. 6 years and 6 managers later we lie 15th in the Championship table. In an age where clubs continually sack manager after manager in the hope of getting immediate success, a tactic that continually fails in most cases, do you think clubs would do better sticking by managers through good times and bad? If you're trying to say we should have kept GJ, then no, no, no. Ps. I'm not sold on his son either. We needed an experienced Championship manager not a beginner making too many mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 19 hours ago, Donkeeebles said: In March 2010 GJ left the club "by mutual consent" with City 15th in the Championship table. 6 years and 6 managers later we lie 15th in the Championship table. In an age where clubs continually sack manager after manager in the hope of getting immediate success, a tactic that continually fails in most cases, do you think clubs would do better sticking by managers through good times and bad? If we'd stuck with GJ from 2010 until now, could we all have coped with Robbored's posting during that time? It would have been a bloodbath on here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 3 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: you are letting a burning personal agenda affect affect both your judgement and comments I was expecting responses like this.......... My views on GJs reign at City are common knowledge which means that some otib readers simply dismiss my negative GJ views as an "agenda". Well....that's utter nonsense of course. He was sacked 6 years ago ffs! yet some posters still think that I carry some kind of "agenda". Fact is I never had an agenda in the first place! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 41 minutes ago, Robbored said: If LJ has learnt anything from his dad, it's what not to do as a manager. Does that include not speaking to you RR ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rag Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 RR, Just like a Moth drawn to a bright light. Simply mention GJ and in it flys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedLionLad Posted December 16, 2016 Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 6 hours ago, Robbored said: LJ is a breath of fresh air in my view but obviously still lacking managerial experience but is growing every game. His interviews are open and he's very honest about his selections and formations. He explains himself very well. Because of his candour I could listen to him all day. I like the way he conducts himself. He strikes me as a sophisticated guy. His dad was the complete opposite. Talked a lot but actually said or revealed very little. I saw GJ on the local sports news on Monday after Cheltenham lost again and are just above the drop zone. Guess what? He made thinly veiled threats towards his players just as he used to do at City........ Thought to myself "he's just the same one trick pony". If LJ has learnt anything from his dad, it's what not to do as a manager. Should LJ becomes a success at City I can see him managing higher up in the PL at some stage. You definitely couldn't say that about his dad. That 'one trick pony' has 5 promotions under his belt. I find your comment....."If LJ has learnt anything from his dad, it's what not to do as a manager.".....a bit strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wendyredredrobin Posted December 16, 2016 Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 My problem with Lee is that his management style seems to be the same as is Dad tactically. i.e. play it cautious until you are one nil or two nil down, then try to attack the opposition when it's too late. He seems to worry about the opposition more than playing a regular team and concentrating more on playing our own style and letting the opposition worry about us. However, he is young and will learn. When he gets better as a result of more experience, I hope he will still be with us. He will get it wrong sometimes along the way, but that's to be expected with a young manager. Perhaps the appointment of an experienced manager who has retired, on a short contract to give him a little guidance would be beneficial as long as it is made clear that Lee is still the manager and calls the shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelts Posted December 16, 2016 Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 6 hours ago, cidered abroad said: If you're trying to say we should have kept GJ, then no, no, no. Ps. I'm not sold on his son either. We needed an experienced Championship manager not a beginner making too many mistakes. Best sack him then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Fred Posted December 16, 2016 Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 On 14/12/2016 at 23:12, Robbored said: The club is now much more stable than 6 years ago when GJ was sacked. That's entirely down to SL realising that the football industry is like no other and has since employed "football" people to run the club in his absence. Thats made a massive difference. The only similarity between GJ and LJ is that they are closely related by blood and that's all IMO. Two very different people in pretty much every other way. Do you think Lee will get us as close to Premier league football as his dad??...or even get us there??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebristolred Posted December 16, 2016 Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 Maybe it's just me but I think the opposite. It could be the accent or something (rich coming from a Bristolian I know), but he (LJ) talks too slowly for me to believe he's intelligent . I hope I'm wrong but I can't ever see him managing in the PL it must be said. That's not to say he won't be a successful manager. He seems to know how to treat players a hell of a lot better than most managers, and he has a real enthusiasm about himself to learn more and gain an advantage in ways other than tactics. I very much like the bloke but unsure as to how far he will go after City. Oh, and there's no comparison between us being 15th now and being 15th then. The football club is a completely different beast off the field nowadays, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted December 16, 2016 Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 13 hours ago, Robbored said: LJ is a breath of fresh air in my view but obviously still lacking managerial experience but is growing every game. His interviews are open and he's very honest about his selections and formations. He explains himself very well. Because of his candour I could listen to him all day. I like the way he conducts himself. He strikes me as a sophisticated guy. His dad was the complete opposite. Talked a lot but actually said or revealed very little. I saw GJ on the local sports news on Monday after Cheltenham lost again and are just above the drop zone. Guess what? He made thinly veiled threats towards his players just as he used to do at City........ Thought to myself "he's just the same one trick pony". If LJ has learnt anything from his dad, it's what not to do as a manager. Should LJ becomes a success at City I can see him managing higher up in the PL at some stage. You definitely couldn't say that about his dad. I've seen nothing to suggest that LJ could manage higher up in the Premier League. Just because he's young and articulate doesn't make him Pep Guardiola. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sglosbcfc Posted December 16, 2016 Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 15 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said: I've seen nothing to suggest that LJ could manage higher up in the Premier League. Just because he's young and articulate doesn't make him Pep Guardiola. Keep up, Pep Guardiola is s*it this month! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donkeeebles Posted December 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 14 hours ago, cidered abroad said: If you're trying to say we should have kept GJ, then no, no, no. Ps. I'm not sold on his son either. We needed an experienced Championship manager not a beginner making too many mistakes. No I'm not trying to say we should have kept GJ I just thought it was an interesting stat that shows that the continual trend of sacking a manager at the first sign of things going wrong has got us literally nowhere. I don't know official stats on this but I wouldn't mind betting we are probably about average when it comes to the amount of managers we've had in the last 6 years, it seems to me to be a failed philosophy yet many fans keep demanding it and most clubs keep doing it. I just find it bizarre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted December 16, 2016 Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 8 hours ago, RedLionLad said: That 'one trick pony' has 5 promotions under his belt. I find your comment....."If LJ has learnt anything from his dad, it's what not to do as a manager.".....a bit strange. GJs managerial career consists of success followed by dismal failure. It happened at Yeovil and in one season happened at City. At Northampton and at Posh it was failure. Now his success/failure is happening at Cheltenham. Co-incidence? or is there a pattern here? To me GJ "my way or the highway" style only works for a season or two. Then the effect wears off and GJ doesn't know any other method of managing so starts to fail. That's why I call him a "one trick Pony". LJ played under his dad at Yeovil and at City so is well aware of what parts of his dad method works and those parts that failed and is astute enough to take the good and avoid the bad. LJ presets himself well to the media and us fans. He says it as he sees it, explains his thinking behind selection, tactics and formations. I like that candour in any manager. It's respectful to everyone. He takes responsibility for the team on his shoulders. His dad is nowhere near as media/fan savvy as LJ is. GJ would talk but say nothing of meaning. He'd laugh at his own jokes..... Then after a loss it was the players who let him down...... No awareness that maybe he got his tactics and formation wrong. After a narrow win no acknowledgement that City were fortunate to pick up the three points. LJ is the complete opposite to his dad in that regard. He holds his hands up if he thinks he got it wrong. That's another quality I like in any manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted December 16, 2016 Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 16 minutes ago, Robbored said: GJs managerial career consists of success followed by dismal failure. It happened at Yeovil and in one season happened at City. At Northampton and at Posh it was failure. Now his success/failure is happening at Cheltenham. Co-incidence? or is there a pattern here? To me GJ "my way or the highway" style only works for a season or two. Then the effect wears off and GJ doesn't know any other method of managing so starts to fail. That's why I call him a "one trick Pony". LJ played under his dad at Yeovil and at City so is well aware of what parts of his dad method works and those parts that failed and is astute enough to take the good and avoid the bad. LJ presets himself well to the media and us fans. He says it as he sees it, explains his thinking behind selection, tactics and formations. I like that candour in any manager. It's respectful to everyone. He takes responsibility for the team on his shoulders. His dad is nowhere near as media/fan savvy as LJ is. GJ would talk but say nothing of meaning. He'd laugh at his own jokes..... Then after a loss it was the players who let him down...... No awareness that maybe he got his tactics and formation wrong. After a narrow win no acknowledgement that City were fortunate to pick up the three points. LJ is the complete opposite to his dad in that regard. He holds his hands up if he thinks he got it wrong. That's another quality I like in any manager. 'It happened at Yeovil and in one season happened at City.' Really ? - I'm getting confused - thought he turned us round from threatening the wrong end of L1 , then got us promoted from L1 , then took us within a hats doo da from Premier League and managed our most successful period since our Div One days Not bad , all in 'one season' !! ' His dad is nowhere near as media/fan savvy as LJ is ' His Dad played a major part, with his fan interaction, in creating one of the very best atmospheres I've witnessed by City fans in nigh on 50 yrs Shall I stop there ? Embarrassing Dont let the truth get in the way of your issues #obsessiveandbitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted December 16, 2016 Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 6 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Shall I stop there ? Embarrassing Dont let the truth get in the way of your issues #obsessiveandbitter You forget to mention my "agenda". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted December 16, 2016 Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 3 minutes ago, Robbored said: You forget to mention my "agenda". No need - Looks like you've highlighted it again , as you regularly do , yourself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted December 16, 2016 Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 Just a little question for you on this then @Robbored Do you think with your careful scrutiny and appraisal that Lee has more backing and support of / from his players than his Dad had ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted December 16, 2016 Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 In every workplace you find disgruntled people whinging and complaining about managers. I used to see it and hear regularly in the NHS. I doubt that's it's any different in a football club. LJ has a large squad to utilise and there will be a number of disgruntled layers who probably feel they should be playing regularly in the first team. I'm sure some of them knock on his door or go through the club captain. Others do nothing and can be a disruptive influence and GJ was good at removing those players pdq. Flapper Phillips was one. So.....I'm sure that LJ has a number of the group that are unhappy with him and don't back him because of it. On the other hand there will be regular first teasers who back him 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted December 16, 2016 Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 When things were looking good, Gary was a really sound manager. He took us to within a whisker of the Pem with a squad who were basically reasonable L1 players . How he did this was by a combination of motivational skills and guile. Unfortunately, some of what Robbored says is true in that Gary's own personality didn't take well to losing and when the club was in a downward spiral he could be a fairly irrational and angry man. His approach was more intuitive and less analytical than Lee's and he couldn't cope with failure. One thing my limited behind-the-scenes informants tell me about LJ is that despite his public persons as "the quiet one", in private he's quite the joker. Unlike his old man, he's a bit more laid back though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manon Posted December 16, 2016 Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 On 14/12/2016 at 23:12, Robbored said: The club is now much more stable than 6 years ago when GJ was sacked. That's entirely down to SL realising that the football industry is like no other and has since employed "football" people to run the club in his absence. Thats made a massive difference. The only similarity between GJ and LJ is that they are closely related by blood and that's all IMO. Two very different people in pretty much every other way. You are forgetting that the GJ we encountered was a much older, more wily version than he would have been when younger. We all start off more radical in our ideas, but who's to say that in 25 years LJ will not much more closely resemble his father.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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