Engvall transfer

[Phileas Fogg]

14 minutes ago, BrizzleBelter said:

Not directing anything at SL just saying something don't add up.. The fact were still struggling to score any goals and LJ still insist on leaving a 2mill striker sat on the bench makes me believe this signing didn't really have anything to do with him. 

Doubt there's anything sinister afoot it's probably one of a couple of outcomes..

1) he's genuinely not ready. The injuries slowed him down or he hasn't settled into the team/how we play.

2) he's not good enough yet/at all. It's possible we've just got it wrong and he's nowhere near good enough... or that the potential is there but he's not at the level yet and needs time. If it's this outcome hopefully it's that he's not good enough 'yet' and not 'he never will be'.

3) LJ is a stubborn fool and won't change the system. 

I think it's probably a combination of 1 and 2. We know he's had injuries and this is a step up in football. Not every single player will be ready to play at the level immediately so we're probably breaking him in gently. In real terms he's only been here a few months. Obviously the issue gets amplified as the goals have dried up and we look like we need some fresh ideas.

[Phileas Fogg]

14 minutes ago, BrizzleBelter said:

Not directing anything at SL just saying something don't add up.. The fact were still struggling to score any goals and LJ still insist on leaving a 2mill striker sat on the bench makes me believe this signing didn't really have anything to do with him. 

Doubt there's anything sinister afoot it's probably one or a combination of a couple of reasons..

1) he's genuinely not ready. The injuries slowed him down or he hasn't settled into the team/how we play.

2) he's not good enough yet/at all. It's possible we've just got it wrong and he's nowhere near good enough... or that the potential is there but he's not at the level yet and needs time. If it's this outcome hopefully it's that he's not good enough 'yet' and not 'he never will be'.

3) LJ is a stubborn fool and won't change the system. 

I think it's probably a combination of 1 and 2. We know he's had injuries and this is a step up in football. Not every single player will be ready to play at the level immediately so we're probably breaking him in gently. In real terms he's only been here a few months. Obviously the issue gets amplified as the goals have dried up and we look like we need some fresh ideas.

[bissellredhead]

12 minutes ago, Robbored said:

We have been creating chnances but Tammy in particular has been fluffing his lines.

Many of us, me included cant understand why LJ doesn't give aTammy some striking  support by playing another with him. Engvall would seem to be the obvious choice.

LJs unwillingness to do so is one thing he hasn't explained yet.

Let's hope someone at radio Bristol asks him rather than their usual dull questions!

[CodeRed]

9 minutes ago, Robbored said:

We have been creating chnances but Tammy in particular has been fluffing his lines.

Many of us, me included cant understand why LJ doesn't give aTammy some striking  support by playing another with him. Engvall would seem to be the obvious choice.

LJs unwillingness to do so is one thing he hasn't explained yet.

I think LJ knows that if you play 2 up front AND Lee Tomlin it leaves us short in midfield. LT is not going to track runners, close gaps, or win tackles......so assuming we play 2 wide midfield players (to supply the crosses to feed our 2 strikers) then it leaves an awful lot of work for the other midfield player. We'll be overrun.  The simple truth is that our midfield aren't up to the Championship.  If we had Brighton's midfield we could play 4-4-2 no problem.

[Robbored]

Why not play Tomlin alongside Tammy?  That solves the midfield difficulty with Tomlin there.

And you're spot on - City are lightweight and leaderless in midfield and I think that LJ hoped that GoN would be a central leader but that hasn't happened, or that's how it looks anyway.

[Ivorguy]

5 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Why not play Tomlin alongside Tammy?  That solves the midfield difficulty with Tomlin there.

And you're spot on - City are lightweight and leaderless in midfield and I think that LJ hoped that GoN would be a central leader but that hasn't happened, or that's how it looks anyway.

And Korey is way off his previous level; and more worryingly may never recover it, like so many in the past

[Phileas Fogg]

7 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Why not play Tomlin alongside Tammy?  That solves the midfield difficulty with Tomlin there.

And you're spot on - City are lightweight and leaderless in midfield and I think that LJ hoped that GoN would be a central leader but that hasn't happened, or that's how it looks anyway.

Because it's not his game. He's only at his best in one role - behind the forward. He's ok on the left but probably doesn't track back enough and we need hard workers on the wings when we're weak in that area and the team is struggling.

That's the issue with player like Tomlin, JET before him and even Lee Trundle - whilst they're great to watch and obviously all really talented, they each have to pretty much have the team built around them to be at their best. As a result we become weaker in other areas to make up for their personal deficiencies and if that star talismanic player isn't at his best then the entire team suffers. 

[Robbored]

1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Because it's not his game. He's only at his best in one role - behind the forward. He's ok on the left but probably doesn't track back enough and we need hard workers on the wings when we're weak in that area and the team is struggling.

That's the issue with player like Tomlin, JET before him and even Lee Trundle - whilst they're great to watch and obviously all really talented, they each have to pretty much have the team built around them to be at their best. As a result we become weaker in other areas to make up for their personal deficiencies and if that star talismanic player isn't at his best then the entire team suffers. 

You say that playing as a second striker is  "not his game" and maybe you're right but.......has Tomlin ever played there? 

Hes undoubtedly a very talented player who has a goal in him so why not try him up top with Tammy?  LJ might feel that's too risky but if he won't select Engvall who else can support Tammy? Wilbraham hasn't got 90 mins in him any longer but is capable of 30mins as sub so if the Tomlin as a striker trial fails then change it.

[Phileas Fogg]

7 minutes ago, Robbored said:

You say that playing as a second striker is  "not his game" and maybe you're right but.......has Tomlin ever played there? 

Hes undoubtedly a very talented player who has a goal in him so why not try him up top with Tammy?  LJ might feel that's too risky but if he won't select Engvall who else can support Tammy? Wilbraham hasn't got 90 mins in him any longer but is capable of 30mins as sub so if the Tomlin as a striker trial fails then change it.

Tammy is a poacher. In my opinion he needs someone up there to do the legwork - either a targetman like Wilbraham who can win the ball and hold it up or a fast hard working forward who will chase down defenders and cause havoc dragging them out of position. 

Tomlin is neither of these. It might work, but I don't think it's the most effective use of Tomlin's talents. Hopefully January will see some new recruits. 

[CodeRed]

6 minutes ago, Robbored said:

You say that playing as a second striker is  "not his game" and maybe you're right but.......has Tomlin ever played there? 

Hes undoubtedly a very talented player who has a goal in him so why not try him up top with Tammy?  LJ might feel that's too risky but if he won't select Engvall who else can support Tammy? Wilbraham hasn't got 90 mins in him any longer but is capable of 30mins as sub so if the Tomlin as a striker trial fails then change it.

No, LT can't play as a 2 up front with Tammy. If Tammy needs help he needs someone to win the first ball and play him in where he can be quick and bright and play off the target man. If LT is up front he would have to play of Tammy - Tomlin up front would just drop deep looking for space to get on the ball. Tomlin wants the ball to feet. He's not going to gamble or make a run off the ball, he's got no pace - he needs the ball to feet then he can hold it,pass it, or go past a player and get a shot off.

 

[Ivorguy]

Looks very likely Engvall will come on at some point this evening;  LJ said earlier in the season thought Engvall would feature after Christmas

So may be this is it then.  Sink or swim time.

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, CodeRed said:

I think LJ knows that if you play 2 up front AND Lee Tomlin it leaves us short in midfield. LT is not going to track runners, close gaps, or win tackles......so assuming we play 2 wide midfield players (to supply the crosses to feed our 2 strikers) then it leaves an awful lot of work for the other midfield player. We'll be overrun.  The simple truth is that our midfield aren't up to the Championship.  If we had Brighton's midfield we could play 4-4-2 no problem.

Sidwell and Stephens were the best pairing I've seen since we got promoted. They timed their pressing to precision. Class. Helps though when the team are a top team too. 

[JoeAman08]

A couple things. Tomlin very much looked like he was part of a strike pair against Wolves. Was often further forward but was more of a hold up striker getting the ball to feet. He done ok there he is capable. 

Second we get caught up in fees. Let's get it straight. We spent an initial 1.4m that can rise based on performances and such. Also we get caught up with the look. A team in Germany's second division would've paid €750,000 for him. Clubs know England has money and WILL spend it. We don't offer it, they say no. It's the harsh reality of the league we are in. It's not a big fee even for us. If it was we wouldn't have bought him. 

Third, LJ has said he was always meant to be used more after January as he needed time to get better and get up to speed. It's clear the clubs philosphy is to bring these players on when they're ready in the managements opinion. These young ones including Engvall aren't ready and the club doesn't want them to be left out to dry with the wolves ready to pounce on a bad performance. 

You guys got to let this go. It's the same questions about Engvall, O'Dowda and Moore. If we could loan outside the windows I imagine they'd be on loan this year. All 3 of them. At least from January on. The rules have changed how teams run things and this is how we feel we need to operate. The youth need to focus on getting better and when they get their chance they'll be ready to take it and keep their spot. Not every 19 year old can be an Abraham, Loftus Cheek or Moussa Dembele. Some need a bit more time. Ours need more time and if they didn't they'd have gone to bigger clubs. At this stage we need to develop talent to compete and this is the best way we can do it. 

[Davefevs]

Really good post Joe.

The loan rule forced our hand more than most as we went into the summer with a threadbare squad.  We needed bodies.  Didn't those of us at AG for the Hull game see something in Engvall....I said before, he's not Ali Dia is he.  So what if we paid over the odds, so do Villa with Kodjia - can't have our cake and eat it.

Engvall sees a bright future for himself, and desperate to show us what he can do.

[RT's Vaseline Tub]

And yet SL is on record as limiting spending on agents fees to a bare minimum so what's gone on here?

[The Journalist]

For all of the criticism Lee Johnson has received, nothing has annoyed me more than the flak he's had about Gustav Engval.

I just don't see, given his age and that he's moved to a foreign country for the first time, how anyone can judge this transfer already. He's a human being, not a robot. It's madness.

People are even suddenly starting to proclaim that the jury is out on Hordur Magnusson like we'd all decided he was a world-beater - of course it is, the guy is 23 playing centre-half in a foreign country!

Let's chill out a bit and give these young blokes an actual opportunity. And I mean years, not months.

Taylor Moore, Calum O'Dowda, Josh Brownhill... These guys are investments for the future. And I still have no reason to believe they won't be good ones.

[AshtonGreat]

On 24/12/2016 at 14:40, Cowshed said:

I have been told by a ex player (not Scott Murray)  still involved at BCFC he is not championship standard at this point ... 

He won't need to be when we get relegated

[nebristolred]

I think it's pretty obvious what's happened here to be honest. I think Engvall is someone who was being watched for some time, certainly not just by our club by the looks of things, considering he had 2 caps for Sweden relatively young. He was most likely on the shortlist of strikers that we will undoubtedly have.

On the 30th August, Kodjia was sold, and suddenly, we had just a few days left of the transfer window, and only 2 strikers on our books, obviously not enough for the season. Engvall was most likely a (partly) panic buy, given the fact that we'd only have 2 strikers available for 4 months, and most likely at a heavily inflated transfer fee due to the fact we'd just received over £10m for Kodjia.

As it turns out, he probably isn't good enough in their eyes at the moment, but I think it's this factor that is resulting in the awkward formations we're seeing. The fact that we can only afford to play 1 up front (Wilbs won't last 90 mins) is the trade-off we've had to make due to selling Kodjia for such a big fee. I would imagine LJ would rather play 2 up front, and if/when we sign a striker in January, we will see.

All of this nonsense about being conned by an agent is rubbish imo.

[RedRock]

1 hour ago, The Journalist said:

For all of the criticism Lee Johnson has received, nothing has annoyed me more than the flak he's had about Gustav Engval.

I just don't see, given his age and that he's moved to a foreign country for the first time, how anyone can judge this transfer already. He's a human being, not a robot. It's madness.

People are even suddenly starting to proclaim that the jury is out on Hordur Magnusson like we'd all decided he was a world-beater - of course it is, the guy is 23 playing centre-half in a foreign country!

Let's chill out a bit and give these young blokes an actual opportunity. And I mean years, not months.

Taylor Moore, Calum O'Dowda, Josh Brownhill... These guys are investments for the future. And I still have no reason to believe they won't be good ones.

Sorry, take the polar-opposite view on the Engval transfer. Truly one of the best examples of the reason why, as a Club,  we always fail to deliver.

Let's rewind.

SL said he 'won't pay over the odds'. We probably paid 4x market and 10x true vale.

MA we need to work within our budget constraints (FFP and all that). We've taken a £3million plus 'punt'with the on-costs - a Club in our position FFS!

MA we need a targeted transfer strategy. Even without the transfer of Kodjia, we needed an extra 'oven-ready' striker. With Kodjia gone that was two.

SL we learn for past mistakes. How many crocks have we bought in the past? Seemingly, this guy was nowhere near fit when we bought him. Did he even have a medical? 

MA we've invested in our scouting network. From reports - albeit it on OTIB - the guy isn't Championship standard. In terms of game-time, at least,  that would seem to be correct. At the price we've paid - what? Even our Swedish friends were questioning the merits of the transfer before he arrived. 

LJ we're going to be developing our young talent, pathways and all that.... how much game time has this fella had - Under 23's, friendlies etc? How is he supposed to 'develop' sat on the bench? 

LJ reported as saying Premiership scouts are watching him training. What does he take us for?

So, in summary it seems, we've paid massively over the odds for a chap who isn't good enough and is injury prone, and we get palmed off that he's another 'one for the future'.

Genuinely, I hope he will be our next Andy Cole. If he isn't, got to feel for the chap as it's not his fault we paid so much for him.

The frustration for me though, is we just don't learn as a Club and now have the added 'benefit' of getting fed bullshit.

Many were calling for MA to come out and explain things -particularly this transfer - weeks ago, well before our run of results turned from bad to dire. For whatever reason, he choose not to stick his head above the parapet. Poor decision in my view.