'We need more characters'

[INCRED]

A couple of nasty b*******s who will get stuck in and get us revved up as at the moment we have a bunch of nice lads who like to play football when it suits them

[Mendip City]

5 minutes ago, INCRED said:

A couple of nasty b*******s who will get stuck in and get us revved up as at the moment we have a bunch of nice lads who like to play football when it suits them

In a nutshell. 

 

But can/will LJ see it????? 

[Mendip City]

29 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

That sums up nicely for me where LJ has it wrong and someone like Hughton knows what is needed. City are exactly the 'before' he describes above. Trouble is that I think that is what LJ was aiming for. A possession-based, nice passing team. We can all see what Hughton says - that won't work in this league. Oh for a manager with his practical approach rather than one who talks tactics but doesn't seem to understand what works.

You're right. 

And...... fans want winning football not pretty possession based football.... that can be added to a winning, comfident team. 

Is it just me or is LJ morphing into SOD (tactically not looks or personality!)

[BobBobSuperBob]

16 minutes ago, spudski said:

How long are transfer windows fella ;-) each one approx. a month or so. And tbh, the confines of those windows becomes even smaller, as lots of 'deals' get finalised at the very last minute. We've had players lined up, and it's fallen through last minute, because other deals haven't gone through. This is the point I've been trying to make...transfers, as you know, aren't like shopping in Tescos, which some forum members seem to think so.

Look at the Kodijia situation...he wanted to leave last minute. Engval was brought in for the future... not his replacement. We got screwed over by JK wanting to leave last minute. We didn't have time to negotiate for the right player, or they weren't available at that moment in time. This is why transfer windows can kill or cure a club...regardless of negotiations, a lot of it comes down to a lot of luck in all the cogs working and falling in to place. We can't just go and buy who we want, so this is how it is for a club like us.

It's bloody hard work getting the right players that fit within budget, into a club, at the right times. And I get the impression some fans think it's a piece of piss.

But it's not just a month tho Spud

The scouting , planning , talking , analysing , amongst the numerous full time employees engaged solely for this purpose are doing so day in day out

As you know we will be constantly talking to agents for months in prep for January

Remember MAs claims about how it's all set up now

Are we really claiming that our Squad is so poor they still need another three windows ?

In addition , were we not told that in our New World , the 'system' is always in place so that any cog / member of staff can be replaced seamlessly?

So ( And playing Devils advocate ! ) 

if that's the case - why is it imperative LJ remains as Head Coach ?

 

Got to be honest Spud , my concerns about LJ are rapidly increasing and I have serious concerns that he uses a lot of terminology and sound bites which actually mean little and certainly amount to confusing issues with his tactics and our pattern of play.

Im loathe to label him a 'bluffer' but I'm getting there

If that's what the players hear the same and think the same , well that would explain a lot.  

IMHO I think LJ has ideas how he wants us to play but has set his philosophy & fotballing / possession principles too high in comparison to our Squads , and his own , present , coaching ability.

A lot of SOD similarities for me ( I know you rated him an we differ there)

[Ivorguy]

43 minutes ago, cynic said:

Not picking on you, but your post is typical of the many being posted at the moment.

A few games ago, you were one of the most supportive people on here with regard to LJ and the club but, like quite a few, you seem to have chucked in the towel after this bad run of results and pointed the finger at whoever is in the firing line.

Those with eyes in their arses are also now questioning the last transfer window and the business done - after praising it to the hilt at the time and others are now slagging off players who they were more than happy with when we were winning games earlier in the season.

Negative posts, even those slagging off Bristol Sport, SL, LJ, just about every player, the board, the supporters, is to be expected as thats the nature of fickle football supporters the world over, but the plethora of vitriolic anti-support is completely over reactive and frankly embarrasses the rest of our support. 

 

 

My fire is more directed at SL/Board if you see the thrust of my posts

However, I do not absolve LJ and all good Boards recognise mistakes and act

Certainly it would seem The Board made a mistake

My main complaint is the amateur approach in making appointments by the club and we could and should have avoided the fiascos of recent years

By the way if our support is embarrassed by the reality then so be it, but a number of us on here are not idiots and regard the whole running of the club under SL's stewardship to be seriously wanting in a number of respects

[Linkedarm wall]

As 'head coach' isn't he supposed to be able 'to coach' the players at his disposable to become a better players and then into a better team? If he, like he does, talk about transfer windows, then he is a manager not a coach. LJ also says he isn't going to have a go at his players, well he is having a backhanded go saying he's needs a couple of characters, implying he hasn't got the correct characters and admitting his own  shortcomings by not being able to 'coach' a determined mentality out of them.

[spudski]

3 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

But it's not just a month tho Spud

The scouting , planning , talking amongst the numerous full time employees engaged solely for this purpose are doing so day in day out

As you know we will be constantly talking to agents for months in prep for January

Remember MAs claims about how it's all set up now

Are we really claiming that our Squad is so poor they still need another three windows ?

In addition , were we not told that in our New World the 'system' is always in place so that any cog / member of staff can be replaced seamlessly?

So ( And playing Devils advocate ! ) 

if that's the case - why is it imperative LJ remains as Head Coach ?

 

Got to be honest Spud , my concerns about LJ are increasing and I have serious concerns that he uses a lot of terminology and sound bites which actually mean little and certainly amount to confusing issues with his tactics and our pattern of play.

If that's what the players hear then that would answer some things

Exactly mate...exactly....that's the point i'm making, all that work can come to nothing, if it gets scuppered last minute. Transfer windows are a lottery. The business has to get finalised in that month...all your hard work can go down the drain, and then you have to start again, or panic in that month.

[BobBobSuperBob]

 

'Exactly mate...exactly....that's the point i'm making, all that work can come to nothing, if it gets scuppered last minute. Transfer windows are a lottery. The business has to get finalised in that month...all your hard work can go down the drain, and then you have to start again, or panic in that month.'

 

Got to be honest @spudski I think that's a bit of an easy cop out for the management

The odd bad window , okay but you can't keep blaming that

Did MA or LJ give any indication that they were unhappy at the end of the Summer Window ?

Anything but , and I'm sure with LJs managerial history we would have loaned another couple of young Prem players if they thought we were 'short'

No something's changed

And some of the things that have changed are blindingly obvious

Players have either fallen out of favour and/or become disgruntled since August and it shows 

Little , Matthews , ROD , Tomlin , O'Neil ..... for a start ( 3 non LJ signings and two experienced pros)

The ultimate question is what is behind all  ?

Do you not smell the message that the players (Possibly as a majority ?) don't buy into LJs coaching / man management at the present time ??

(Genuinely interested - honest answer )

Because I do

[Nogbad the Bad]

I thought Luke Ayling was 'a character' - a 100% enthusiastic battler on the pitch and massively popular in the dressing room.

A key component in our previously much lauded exceptional squad spirit under SC.

How much of that spirit remains today? 

 

[Mendip City]

4 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

I thought Luke Ayling was 'a character' - a 100% enthusiastic battler on the pitch and massively popular in the dressing room.

A key component in our previously much lauded exceptional squad spirit under SC.

How much of that spirit remains today? 

 

Good point. I get the impression that Agard also fitted that bill.... Williams also?

Sometimes a player who'll just run his heart out and give everything is the most useful. 

The spirit appears to be gone and we've a mixed bag of players with no obvious preferrred formation. 

[Gert Mare]

2 hours ago, Ivorguy said:

So says our manager.

Is he writing a novel?

what we need is more Championship quality players, and a coaching staff to match.  Not rocket science

Anyway City have never relished 'characters' since the days of Ernie Peacock - Gosh, I wonder what he would make of the present bunch.  Please don't answer, you could be banned!

If I remember rightly I heard LJ say on Subs Bench that when bringing players in to Bristol City they interview not just for ability but also for character to ensure that they have the right mentality?

So if we don't have characters or leaders then that means that LJ's recruitment policy has failed, along with all his other PowerPoint garbage......Time to go son, buck stops with you for that one I'm afraid.....Tick tock.

[Jack Dawe]

18 minutes ago, spudski said:

Exactly mate...exactly....that's the point i'm making, all that work can come to nothing, if it gets scuppered last minute. Transfer windows are a lottery. The business has to get finalised in that month...all your hard work can go down the drain, and then you have to start again, or panic in that month.

This must apply to every club then, spud. Not just us. I just hear more weak excuses there. More helplessness. 

We need people running the club with answers and solutions to the challenges of being a Championship club, not offering weak tosh like "oh, it's so tough," and "it's a lottery, signing players." 

If it's too much for us, and unreasonable to expect much more than this season, then we must drop the pretence of striving for the PL, and settle for what we have been doing since 1980. Or since the First World War, save for a brief few years in the 1970s. Go back to competing with Walsall, Chesterfield, Swindon.

[Northern Red]

5 minutes ago, Cheesleysmate said:

If I remember rightly I heard LJ say on Subs Bench that when bringing players in to Bristol City they interview not just for ability but also for character to ensure that they have the right mentality?

So if we don't have characters or leaders then that means that LJ's recruitment policy has failed, along with all his other PowerPoint garbage......Time to go son, buck stops with you for that one I'm afraid.....Tick tock.

Let's be honest though, you'd blame Lee Johnson if it rained tomorrow.

[Jack Dawe]

7 minutes ago, Cheesleysmate said:

If I remember rightly I heard LJ say on Subs Bench that when bringing players in to Bristol City they interview not just for ability but also for character to ensure that they have the right mentality?

So if we don't have characters or leaders then that means that LJ's recruitment policy has failed, along with all his other PowerPoint garbage......Time to go son, buck stops with you for that one I'm afraid.....Tick tock.

I am afraid that LJ's many fine words are coming back to haunt him. He is tying himself up in knots. If only there was anyone in local media prepared to challenge him like this

[Red Skin]

1 hour ago, Charliesboots said:

You quack me up....

It's a good job he had the duck.  At least you could hear him coming.   

[spudski]

7 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

 

'Exactly mate...exactly....that's the point i'm making, all that work can come to nothing, if it gets scuppered last minute. Transfer windows are a lottery. The business has to get finalised in that month...all your hard work can go down the drain, and then you have to start again, or panic in that month.'

 

Got to be honest @spudski I think that's a bit of an easy cop out for the management

The odd bad window , okay but you can't keep blaming that

Did MA or LJ give any indication that they were unhappy at the end of the Summer Window ?

Anything but , and I'm sure with LJs managerial history we would have loaned another couple of young Prem players if they thought we were 'short'

No something's changed

And some of the things that have changed are blindingly obvious

Players have either fallen out of favour and/or become disgruntled since August and it shows 

Little , Matthews , ROD , Tomlin , O'Neil ..... for a start ( 3 non LJ signings and two experienced pros)

The ultimate question is what is behind all  ?

Do you not smell the message that the players (Possibly as a majority ?) don't buy into LJs coaching / man management at the present time ??

(Genuinely interested - honest answer )

Because I do

As you know mate...players have fallen out with LJ. But is that LJ's fault or the players? I don't think LJ has done anything particularly wrong tbh. I think the biggest failing are the performances of some of our players, many underachieving. Tomlin, GoN, Matthews, RoD, Fielding, to name a few.

Fans seem to think it's easy for a manager to make some players work harder and bust a gut...but it's not. It's not that simple.

I look at Flint and Magners and they have their limitations, but they work their socks off at the back. You can't fault them. Little is 100%...but not good enough. Not his fault. I get the impression Tomlin, GoN and Matthews think they are better than everyone else, and feel they can get away with blaming others for their own lack of desire and poor performances. Then you have the likes of Wilbs who is a completely different character, and could quite easily be the same...but he's not...if only our more experienced pros would bust a gut like him.

[Nomad]

9 minutes ago, Cheesleysmate said:

If I remember rightly I heard LJ say on Subs Bench that when bringing players in to Bristol City they interview not just for ability but also for character to ensure that they have the right mentality?

So if we don't have characters or leaders then that means that LJ's recruitment policy has failed, along with all his other PowerPoint garbage......Time to go son, buck stops with you for that one I'm afraid.....Tick tock.

Spot on and time for LJ/MA to admit they have failed in the recruitment process. An apology to all (SL in particular) wouldn't go amiss.

[Mendip City]

3 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

I am afraid that LJ's many fine words are coming back to haunt him. He is tying himself up in knots. If only there was anyone in local media prepared to challenge him like this

He's hilarious at times. I like how he constantly refers to the experience he gained from the last long losing run he got a club into and how it'll help him get out of this one..... here's a novel idea Lee, why not learn not to get into them in the first place! 

Thats hardh of me, I don't dislike HIM, but I didn't like his appointment, he's not experienced enough and it's showing now. 

If he does get sacked, his record won't look all that impressive at all across the 3 clubs he's managed. 

[Gert Mare]

3 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

I am afraid that LJ's many fine words are coming back to haunt him. He is tying himself up in knots. If only there was anyone in local media prepared to challenge him like this

If I recall there was a long interview done upstairs in the new sports bar? I am absolutely convinced that he mentioned getting in the right characters, and now he is saying we haven't got the right characters? 

We haven't got any leaders apart from Wilbs. None.

He is basically admitting that he has screwed up.

For me the glitter is falling off in lumps and there is a turd beneath that had swallowed an encyclopaedia of football cliches. Bluff and gumph. Really sad.

[Mendip City]

5 minutes ago, spudski said:

As you know mate...players have fallen out with LJ. But is that LJ's fault or the players? I don't think LJ has done anything particularly wrong tbh. I think the biggest failing are the performances of some of our players, many underachieving. Tomlin, GoN, Matthews, RoD, Fielding, to name a few.

Fans seem to think it's easy for a manager to make some players work harder and bust a gut...but it's not. It's not that simple.

I look at Flint and Magners and they have their limitations, but they work their socks off at the back. You can't fault them. Little is 100%...but not good enough. Not his fault. I get the impression Tomlin, GoN and Matthews think they are better than everyone else, and feel they can get away with blaming others for their own lack of desire and poor performances. Then you have the likes of Wilbs who is a completely different character, and could quite easily be the same...but he's not...if only our more experienced pros would bust a gut like him.

Spot on. 

 

Out of interest who has fallen out with LJ, how do you know this? 

[spudski]

8 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

This must apply to every club then, spud. Not just us. I just hear more weak excuses there. More helplessness. 

We need people running the club with answers and solutions to the challenges of being a Championship club, not offering weak tosh like "oh, it's so tough," and "it's a lottery, signing players." 

If it's too much for us, and unreasonable to expect much more than this season, then we must drop the pretence of striving for the PL, and settle for what we have been doing since 1980. Or since the First World War, save for a brief few years in the 1970s. Go back to competing with Walsall, Chesterfield, Swindon.

Mate...it is how football is. Whether you like it or not. There is no magic wand.

We are having a shit run...

If we are in the bottom 3 in 3 months time, then yes, I'd get the forum anxiety...but we are half way through the season in 17th place. Yes...having a poor run at the moment, but if the results had been spread out more evenly people would be less frustrated.

Lets see who comes in in January...I can see some fans looking very stupid with their comments in a few months time.

And yes...it is unreasonable to expect more than mid table at the end of the season, after just two seasons back.

[Mendip City]

4 minutes ago, Cheesleysmate said:

If I recall there was a long interview done upstairs in the new sports bar? I am absolutely convinced that he mentioned getting in the right characters, and now he is saying we haven't got the right characters? 

We haven't got any leaders apart from Wilbs. None.

He is basically admitting that he has screwed up.

For me the glitter is falling off in lumps and there is a turd beneath that had swallowed an encyclopaedia of football cliches. Bluff and gumph. Really sad.

His old man used to interview players before signing them. 

Youre right it's falling apart. 

Im beginning to think sticking Wilbraham in temporary charge wouldn't be a bad idea.... see if he can drive a bit of passion from them. 

We are drifting back to being a nice club again, and easy club, retirement home. 

[Gert Mare]

9 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

Let's be honest though, you'd blame Lee Johnson if it rained tomorrow.

Yes I would. However, I was behind him at the start. He wasn't my first choice, but we ended the season well and I was very heartened by the form and transfer market activity over the summer, plus the unexpected great start to the season.

But I became concerned when we started to lose and the issues weren't addressed. It carried on getting worse and worse until Ipswich and I though ok that's better, and then we started the losing streak again so enough was enough for me.

[Jack Dawe]

6 minutes ago, Cheesleysmate said:

If I recall there was a long interview done upstairs in the new sports bar? I am absolutely convinced that he mentioned getting in the right characters, and now he is saying we haven't got the right characters? 

We haven't got any leaders apart from Wilbs. None.

He is basically admitting that he has screwed up.

For me the glitter is falling off in lumps and there is a turd beneath that had swallowed an encyclopaedia of football cliches. Bluff and gumph. Really sad.

The "character" thing is covered by the "DNA" thing. One and the same thing. 

It is sad, and I take no delight in any of this. But someone amongst LJ, MA, SL, the board has to come under scrutiny for all this. And it won't happen in the local media.

 

 

[spudski]

5 minutes ago, Mendip City said:

Spot on. 

 

Out of interest who has fallen out with LJ, how do you know this? 

GoN and Tomlin have had 'Words' and falling out. Not 100% sure of the outcome or whether everything has been resolved. My gut is that it has been with Tomlin but maybe not GoN. Have been told from various pro's in the game, one a scout, another an agent....and then confirmed by the father of one of the regular first team players. Other forum members have heard the same and spoke about it by pm.

[Gert Mare]

4 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

The "character" thing is covered by the "DNA" thing. One and the same thing. 

It is sad, and I take no delight in any of this. But someone amongst LJ, MA, SL, the board has to come under scrutiny for all this. And it won't happen in the local media.

 

 

I don't like it either. I want us to do well, but I am afraid to say that I really can't see us turning the corner with LJ I really can't because he cannot seem to address the basic issues. 

When Pulis went to Palace they were heading straight back to the Championship. Their players didn't seem good enough, but he immediately stopped them from losing games. Lee isn't doing this. Let's get some points in the bag, remove immediate pressure and then try to find that winning formula. 

I don't care how tikka takka our football is I want to stay in the Championship first and foremost.

[Gert Mare]

9 minutes ago, spudski said:

GoN and Tomlin have had 'Words' and falling out. Not 100% sure of the outcome or whether everything has been resolved. My gut is that it has been with Tomlin but maybe not GoN. Have been told from various pro's in the game, one a scout, another an agent....and then confirmed by the father of one of the regular first team players. Other forum members have heard the same and spoke about it by pm.

Bournemouth and Boro fans talk of Tomlin throwing teddies out of the Pram as soon as he no longer felt adored. Wouldn't be surprised if f eking the weight of expectation has hacked him off. If his head has gone we are in trouble.

[maxjak]

If your looking for characters LJ……………How about Sherlock Holmes to work out the mystery of your tactics, and Tyrion Lannister to add bite to the midfield ( Or perhaps Hannibal Lecter might be more appropriate?)

[Jack Dawe]

7 minutes ago, spudski said:

Mate...it is how football is. Whether you like it or not. There is no magic wand.

We are having a shit run...

If we are in the bottom 3 in 3 months time, then yes, I'd get the forum anxiety...but we are half way through the season in 17th place. Yes...having a poor run at the moment, but if the results had been spread out more evenly people would be less frustrated.

Lets see who comes in in January...I can see some fans looking very stupid with their comments in a few months time.

And yes...it is unreasonable to expect more than mid table at the end of the season, after just two seasons back.

No one is expecting more than midtable. Midtable is what we are after. We are in the bottom third. 6 points from third bottom. What we expected this season was none of the shambles and looking-over-our-shoulders of last season, which is what many of us are seeing now, after eight defeats in nine games.

I hope we do look stupid and are too quick to fear the worst.

[Mendip City]

8 minutes ago, spudski said:

GoN and Tomlin have had 'Words' and falling out. Not 100% sure of the outcome or whether everything has been resolved. My gut is that it has been with Tomlin but maybe not GoN. Have been told from various pro's in the game, one a scout, another an agent....and then confirmed by the father of one of the regular first team players. Other forum members have heard the same and spoke about it by pm.

Thanks for the update. 

I thought we'd eradicated that sort of stuff.... seems like the spirit and discipline is taking a backward step. That's, for me, even more of a worry than the form. 

For what it's worth I'd be happy to be shot of both Tomlin and GON. I think Tomlin is the reason we can't get a settled shape and formation (and he's only offering glimpses of quality). GON I thought would be more of a leader/organiser but frankly he seems no better than Pack.