Why it's not working...

[spudski]

...IMO...

For what it's worth...it's not down to the LJ's tactics, formations etc...but lack of experience and quality in the starting 11.

I think LJ and MA gambled a bit too much in the summer, by not bringing in more experienced players.

Now in saying that...I know how difficult it is to get the right players at the right time. It's easier said than done.

Budget, contracts, fees, agents, wanting to come here, availability, long term strategy and prospects etc,etc.

Deep down they know this, and this is why they keep saying they need the windows to build.

MA and his team will be working frantically behind the scenes to get players in.

The 'experienced' players with that bit of quality... Matthews, GoN and Tomlin have for different reasons, have all underperformed. And this has led to extra pressure on a very inexperienced squad at this level.

Yes the results are frustrating...but imo, to be playing like we are with so few decent experienced players, tells me we have some quality in the youngsters.

The focus has to be on bringing experience, quality, older heads, physicality and mobility to the team.

All these injuries, just magnify how short in quality we are in this league...hence yesterdays team selection.

And this is the problem with football and especially smaller clubs like ours. Transfer windows. These Windows make it so hard for clubs with less money to operate. Asking teams to buy and develop a team in basically a 2/3 month period is a farce. Especially, as unless players are out of contract, the negotiations can take ages and rely on various sales falling into place.

How I see it...we've gambled on spending money on players for the near future in the last transfer window. Got them at a price we can afford, before they develop and become out of our price range. We've got a stable of raw talent, that now needs developing for a season.

This January window will be the one where we bring in the experience and physicality.

The two combined, should in theory turn our season round, and make us a mid table side.

LJ and MA will then have the rest of the season to see where we can still improve and where our weaknesses are. The summer window will be where we develop further.

It's all about next season for me. That will show how good we can develop under LJ and MA.

Expecting lots of abuse and 'that's not good enough' comments. But that's where I see it...we've gambled on inexperience and a few 'experienced'...and that's why we are where we are.

[ooRya]

I think you have got it spot on.

In my opinion, the emphasis was always going to be on next season, (hence LJ's 3 windows comment) but we all got a bit carried away with the unexpected good start we had.

[Roger Red Hat]

Good post Spud. My hope is that we don't suffer from LJ's inexperience.

[Dr Balls]

Have to agree that LJ & MA got carried away with the form at the end of last season & thought just one or 2 experienced players were needed & the rast of the signings could be "for the future". And it hasn't gone to plan. The talk of Europe within 5 years is looking particularly daft! Plus GON, Matthews & to a lesser extent Tomlin have not been the consistent players we might have hoped for. Plus I don't think they reckoned on losing Kodjia.

Quickly need to regroup as Blackburn amongst others have hit some form & we are now clearly in a relegation battle, with one of the least experienced squads at this level. 

[Benjam!n Ultra]

At this rate we're going down, this season is the priority now, not next. 

[Roger Red Hat]

3 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

Plus I don't think they reckoned on losing Kodjia.

Nail on head! Total spanner in the works.

[Olé]

21 minutes ago, spudski said:

Yes the results are frustrating...but imo, to be playing like we are with so few decent experienced players, tells me we have some quality in the youngsters.

The focus has to be on bringing experience, quality, older heads, physicality and mobility to the team.

I think that's a bit generous @spudski.

As noted in the "are we over complicating it" thread, I really don't like this notion that we are asking LJ to work with a bunch of 12 year olds and perform the impossible. Yes we have some younger players, yes some of our players natural level is somewhere between League One and Championship rather than solid Championship, but as with any halfway decent League One team, there should be enough for a manager to deliver a far more convincing return at this level.

"To be playing like we are" implies satisfaction that performances are better than results. That's just not true - I agree it does sometimes go that way during poor runs - but on this occasion the performances and approach have been the problem, long before the results (see posts I made earlier in the season when we were winning), the results are just catching up with the unconvincing performances. We're setup to keep ourselves in games "one goal in it" but not to win.

Also, while your point is well made about experience, if as reported the next two players have never played in English football before, doesn't it just mean more of the same - we've been very lucky with how quickly Magnusson settled. LJ has made this experience point too, so to then be bringing in two unknowns is just another way in which LJ/MA say one thing and do another. For what it's worth, our squad already has 3 players that won promotion to the Premiership...

[Major Isewater]

35 minutes ago, spudski said:

...IMO...

For what it's worth...it's not down to the LJ's tactics, formations etc...but lack of experience and quality in the starting 11.

I think LJ and MA gambled a bit too much in the summer, by not bringing in more experienced players.

Now in saying that...I know how difficult it is to get the right players at the right time. It's easier said than done.

Budget, contracts, fees, agents, wanting to come here, availability, long term strategy and prospects etc,etc.

Deep down they know this, and this is why they keep saying they need the windows to build.

MA and his team will be working frantically behind the scenes to get players in.

The 'experienced' players with that bit of quality... Matthews, GoN and Tomlin have for different reasons, have all underperformed. And this has led to extra pressure on a very inexperienced squad at this level.

Yes the results are frustrating...but imo, to be playing like we are with so few decent experienced players, tells me we have some quality in the youngsters.

The focus has to be on bringing experience, quality, older heads, physicality and mobility to the team.

All these injuries, just magnify how short in quality we are in this league...hence yesterdays team selection.

And this is the problem with football and especially smaller clubs like ours. Transfer windows. These Windows make it so hard for clubs with less money to operate. Asking teams to buy and develop a team in basically a 2/3 month period is a farce. Especially, as unless players are out of contract, the negotiations can take ages and rely on various sales falling into place.

How I see it...we've gambled on spending money on players for the near future in the last transfer window. Got them at a price we can afford, before they develop and become out of our price range. We've got a stable of raw talent, that now needs developing for a season.

This January window will be the one where we bring in the experience and physicality.

The two combined, should in theory turn our season round, and make us a mid table side.

LJ and MA will then have the rest of the season to see where we can still improve and where our weaknesses are. The summer window will be where we develop further.

It's all about next season for me. That will show how good we can develop under LJ and MA.

Expecting lots of abuse and 'that's not good enough' comments. But that's where I see it...we've gambled on inexperience and a few 'experienced'...and that's why we are where we are.

I don't think we've gambled on ' inexperience ' , as you have said it is harder to bring in experienced players and last window we needed numbers desperately and perhaps Ashton and company did not have the time to ' court ' some of these types.

Iam hopeful that this time our targets will be forthcoming.

 

[Major Isewater]

11 minutes ago, Olé said:

I think that's a bit generous @spudski.

As noted in the "are we over complicating it" thread, I really don't like this notion that we are asking LJ to work with a bunch of 12 year olds and perform the impossible. Yes we have some younger players, yes some of our players natural level is somewhere between League One and Championship rather than solid Championship, but as with any halfway decent League One team, there should be enough for a manager to deliver a far more convincing return at this level.

"To be playing like we are" implies satisfaction that performances are better than results. That's just not true - I agree it does sometimes go that way during poor runs - but on this occasion the performances and approach have been the problem, long before the results (see posts I made earlier in the season when we were winning), the results are just catching up with the unconvincing performances. We're setup to keep ourselves in games "one goal in it" but not to win.

Also, while your point is well made about experience, if as reported the next two players have never played in English football before, doesn't it just mean more of the same - we've been very lucky with how quickly Magnusson settled. LJ has made this experience point too, so to then be bringing in two unknowns is just another way in which LJ/MA say one thing and do another. For what it's worth, our squad already has 3 players that won promotion to the Premiership...

I am a bit concerned as well with our named targets but hope that we bring in one or two seasoned Championship performers from left field .

 I believe this is the key . Players who see themselves as being as good as , if not better , than the team in front of them .

Ones not overwhelmed by playing in front of big ,sometimes hostile , crowds . 

[Son of Fred]

35 minutes ago, spudski said:

...IMO...

For what it's worth...it's not down to the LJ's tactics, formations etc...but lack of experience and quality in the starting 11.

I think LJ and MA gambled a bit too much in the summer, by not bringing in more experienced players.

Now in saying that...I know how difficult it is to get the right players at the right time. It's easier said than done.

Budget, contracts, fees, agents, wanting to come here, availability, long term strategy and prospects etc,etc.

Deep down they know this, and this is why they keep saying they need the windows to build.

MA and his team will be working frantically behind the scenes to get players in.

The 'experienced' players with that bit of quality... Matthews, GoN and Tomlin have for different reasons, have all underperformed. And this has led to extra pressure on a very inexperienced squad at this level.

Yes the results are frustrating...but imo, to be playing like we are with so few decent experienced players, tells me we have some quality in the youngsters.

The focus has to be on bringing experience, quality, older heads, physicality and mobility to the team.

All these injuries, just magnify how short in quality we are in this league...hence yesterdays team selection.

And this is the problem with football and especially smaller clubs like ours. Transfer windows. These Windows make it so hard for clubs with less money to operate. Asking teams to buy and develop a team in basically a 2/3 month period is a farce. Especially, as unless players are out of contract, the negotiations can take ages and rely on various sales falling into place.

How I see it...we've gambled on spending money on players for the near future in the last transfer window. Got them at a price we can afford, before they develop and become out of our price range. We've got a stable of raw talent, that now needs developing for a season.

This January window will be the one where we bring in the experience and physicality.

The two combined, should in theory turn our season round, and make us a mid table side.

LJ and MA will then have the rest of the season to see where we can still improve and where our weaknesses are. The summer window will be where we develop further.

It's all about next season for me. That will show how good we can develop under LJ and MA.

Expecting lots of abuse and 'that's not good enough' comments. But that's where I see it...we've gambled on inexperience and a few 'experienced'...and that's why we are where we are.

Completely agree with what we need to bring in,and personally felt that even when we were perched in the top ten-I have something wedged in my head that I have heard Lee has stated recently that proven in this division/prem would not be his marker??.please tell me I was having a nightmare!

OK,/I know that there are players from Europe to consider but do we have the comfort of 'bedding in time for an import??

[Midred]

24 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said:

Nail on head! Total spanner in the works.

Point taken but had they "lost" him before they sold him? Would he have turned out to be another player here on sufferance?

[David Brent]

I think LJ has brought in enough players, together with those already here, to fit his system and the way he wanted us to play. I get the whole 3 windows thing but it's not as if he hasn't had at least one window, one in which he has been backed heavily.

Some are big money signings, some inexperienced yes. But I feel he's trying too much too soon, over complicating tactics and not getting the best out of the players he has signed. 

[Alessandro]

A fair and balanced analysis, I think our flying start flattered to deceive and too many fans got carried away with the idea of the play offs. We are young and inexperienced all round but I firmly believe we will strengthen in Jan and kick on again.

This season had to be about building and that means staying strong and riding out this rough period, we can't pull the managerial trigger every time we hit choppy waters. Although if we continue into Feb with this form, LJ will give BCFC little choice. 

[samo II]

The issue is that as much as all the points raised by the OP possibly are, the real problem isn't necessarily the ability or even experience of the squad; it's the current mentality.

Over this run we have lost in so many ways (going behind early, taking multi pal leads, clawing back deficits only to lose), and are becoming worryingly consistent in displaying a lack of any mental fortitude.

My prime worry is as I have articulated elsewhere; that regardless of LJ's undoubted knowledge and learning regards coaching, his commitment and belief in the 'project', or even his willingness to mix it up tactically to try and solve any issues, he cannot break the mental block that the team has about winning games.

I genuinely feel this side now goes out not to lose, rather than to win matches.  I would literally rather see us beaten by two or three if the evidence was there that they were attempting to no simply 'manage' matches but go all out to win them.

It concerns me that we've gone from beating sides (albeit with a degree of luck) to repeatedly capitulating game after game, often from decent positions.  

If LJ cannot rapidly change this, it is fair to ask if another head coach could come in and head up our project; one who can take the undoubtably decent resources at his disposal and win some points.

[Kibs]

Some good points but however it's spun, we are seriously underachieving. I never thought for a minute we would remain around the top 6 but neither could I foresee a quite remarkable run like this and mid-table should have been a reasonable expectation. I guess it still is but it's hard to look beyond a relegation battle. 

For me, he tries to be too clever for his own good, tinkers far too much and picking Matthews ahead of Moore was quite astonishing. He didn't have a bad game tbf but Kermogant ensured that whenever possible, he was being marked by Matthews from the start.

When Cotterill was sacked, Pemberton turned it around doing exactly what was needed - he made us solid, hard to beat and we were able to keep clean sheets. There was nothing "modern" about it. Preston and Birmingham under Rowett are good examples of teams that do this regularly. For some reason it seems that this solid foundation was ripped up and LJ cannot find a way to keep the opposition out, despite having far more at his disposal than Pemberton did.

Its easy to say the fans got carried away etc but it wasn't just fans. There were bookies, pundits, "experts" and even rival managers calling us "Dark horses". Some even considered us as challengers for promotion.

To be in a situation (yesterday) where he felt forced field such a young team and have his major signings - Tomlin, Paterson, Engvall and Moore (£8m ish in total?) not even get on the pitch tells you something has gone very very wrong.

Im not sure I'd trust him with my kids pocket money, let alone another transfer window.

[Ivorguy]

It is not the choppiness of the water that worries me but the fact that we are holed below the waterline

[spudski]

16 minutes ago, Olé said:

I think that's a bit generous @spudski.

As noted in the "are we over complicating it" thread, I really don't like this notion that we are asking LJ to work with a bunch of 12 year olds and perform the impossible. Yes we have some younger players, yes some of our players natural level is somewhere between League One and Championship rather than solid Championship, but as with any halfway decent League One team, there should be enough for a manager to deliver a far more convincing return at this level.

"To be playing like we are" implies satisfaction that performances are better than results. That's just not true - I agree it does sometimes go that way during poor runs - but on this occasion the performances and approach have been the problem, long before the results (see posts I made earlier in the season when we were winning), the results are just catching up with the unconvincing performances. We're setup to keep ourselves in games "one goal in it" but not to win.

Also, while your point is well made about experience, if as reported the next two players have never played in English football before, doesn't it just mean more of the same - we've been very lucky with how quickly Magnusson settled. LJ has made this experience point too, so to then be bringing in two unknowns is just another way in which LJ/MA say one thing and do another. For what it's worth, our squad already has 3 players that won promotion to the Premiership...

Hi mate :-)

Personally I believe our performances have generally been better than our results. I don't look at us and think we are being totally outclassed. We score goals, we create the second most chances in the league. You don't do that if you are rubbish.

Our goals conceded often come from individual mistakes...through lack of experience, making the wrong decisions, lack of quality, lack of mobility and lack of vision.

So many goals conceded this tear have come about by errors of judgement. We've never been battered.

As for players coming in...I think the whole thing about foreign players needing time to bed into the game is a bit of old hat these days. So many foreigners play in the UK now...they get on with it and do it. It's not many these days that need time to bed.

Plus the one's we are looking at seem to be built for the 'English' game. We aren't looking at lightweight Spanish playmakers...we have the players to create...it's physicality and strength and mobility needed.

The 3 players you mention were just cogs in a bigger wheel...just because they've won promotion, it doesn't mean anything. Everything needs to compliment one another.

19 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

I don't think we've gambled on ' inexperience ' , as you have said it is harder to bring in experienced players and last window we needed numbers desperately and perhaps Ashton and company did not have the time to ' court ' some of these types.

Iam hopeful that this time our targets will be forthcoming.

 

Yes I agree Major...totally.

[Davefevs]

Spud - I posted something similar before yesterday's game, in that bringing back Matthews and Tomlin plus the experienced O'Neil would be the platform to build upon the improved form of the second half of last season, whilst giving the new, young recruits a chance to embed. 

The lack of the level of performances from several players, those above included, means we have gone back to somewhere near where we were 12 months ago. 

I can accept that 'gamble' and also accept getting the right experienced players in is not easy. 

But the combination of Taylor Moore's exclusion from starting line-up, then the bench, and then possibly out on loan left me severely let down, and with a feeling that Johnson is in panic mode. 

Where does a 6ft6in striker fit into our one up front or if two up front, fast paced attacking football?  

I'm not knowledgeable if the European scene, and whilst I get the Magnusson type signing I fear we are doing what we've done in the past and going after foreign versions of the types we brought in under previous regimes.  I accept my lack of knowledge might be part if my worry here.  If we are going this route I'd rather it be a loan until we know if they can adapt. 

Nit the warm, cosy start to 2017 I was expecting. 

[Olé]

22 minutes ago, samo II said:

I genuinely feel this side now goes out not to lose, rather than to win matches.  I would literally rather see us beaten by two or three if the evidence was there that they were attempting to no simply 'manage' matches but go all out to win them.

Amen. Not to restore any credit to what were some truly terrible performances a year ago, but all this mention of "we're not losing 3 or 4-nil like under Cotterill" is just garbage, because he was at least taking risks and trying to win games of football.

I haven't seen a coherent plan of attack for weeks. One up top, no one else pushing on, a shape that never switches to 4-3-3 in possession. We've "managed" games to keep the score down and people come on here and say "but we're only losing by 1" 

[spudski]

20 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Spud - I posted something similar before yesterday's game, in that bringing back Matthews and Tomlin plus the experienced O'Neil would be the platform to build upon the improved form of the second half of last season, whilst giving the new, young recruits a chance to embed. 

The lack of the level of performances from several players, those above included, means we have gone back to somewhere near where we were 12 months ago. 

I can accept that 'gamble' and also accept getting the right experienced players in is not easy. 

But the combination of Taylor Moore's exclusion from starting line-up, then the bench, and then possibly out on loan left me severely let down, and with a feeling that Johnson is in panic mode. 

Where does a 6ft6in striker fit into our one up front or if two up front, fast paced attacking football?  

I'm not knowledgeable if the European scene, and whilst I get the Magnusson type signing I fear we are doing what we've done in the past and going after foreign versions of the types we brought in under previous regimes.  I accept my lack of knowledge might be part if my worry here.  If we are going this route I'd rather it be a loan until we know if they can adapt. 

Nit the warm, cosy start to 2017 I was expecting. 

I have no idea of the thinking behind Taylor Moore...however, I guess it was along the lines of putting too much pressure on a 19 year old.

As for a 6 6 striker...why does that have any bearing on fast paced attacking football mate?

Didn't the likes of Peter Crouch play effective football?

As I said in a previous post...foreign players perse are not the problem. It's not like we are going after frail Spanish playmakers. Iceland, German and Bosnian footballers are pretty much English in 'style' ;-)

 

[Olé]

26 minutes ago, spudski said:

We score goals, we create the second most chances in the league. You don't do that if you are rubbish.

I've said it elsewhere but I just don't buy the chances stats. We are not creating a hatful of clear cut chances, and if the stats say that they are plain wrong. I am literally repeating something I wrote on here about 48 hours ago, but we are not putting the ball onto someones head or feet with only the keeper to beat. What little chances we create are Tammy having to outmuscle a defender and get a shot in, or a "midfielder" having a speculative shot from outside the box.

There needs to be a better stat that reflects the quality of the chance as I believe we would find we are not creating many of those chances. Flint's goal from a corner at Wolves was the first and only time anyone other than a striker scored inside the box over the past three months (since this poor run started). Besides Tammy and Wilbs, our only other goals have been Tomlin screamer at Cardiff, Freeman screamer, O'Neil from outside the box in garbage time at Reading.

If we really were creating a hatful of clear chances I would expect better examples of players scoring goals - Tammy's first yesterday and at Ipswich were both the result of goalkeeping mistakes. I love your insight and explanations, but I respectfully disagree performances are better than results. We are not creating or scoring clear chances as we commit so few people to attacking. As @samo II puts it - we are not really trying to actually win games. Horrible to say, but true.

Regarding foreigners - I agree (we adapt quite well ) - but I just think that it's a bit odd to place so much emphasis on bringing in experience and then turn to players who have no "course and distance" about this division. It seems at worst contradictory but at the very least, room for more excuses over the second half of the season if it doesn't work out and they can be thrown in the Engvall etc bucket. We are not lacking for quality, I thought it was the savvy we wanted.

[ExiledAjax]

5 minutes ago, Olé said:

There needs to be a better stat that reflects the quality of the chance

If you've seen this sort of thing before then apologies but I now present E Ratings, aka "Expected Goals" -  "where every shot taken and faced is given a value based on how likely shots of that type go in. By adding up all these values we can work out how many goals each club “should” be scoring and conceding".

A long and dull explanation lies here: https://experimental361.com/explanations/explanations-e-ratings/

On this basis we are currently 5th for attacking and 18th for defending - suggesting that it is, as @spudksi posits, at the back that our problems lie rather than the front.

For interest here's the summary of yesterday's game. A "jump" in the line indicates a shot, the size of the jump indicates the quality, and a dot indicates a goal.  The number in brackets shows the total number of goals each team was "expected" to score based on the quality of the shots that they generated in the match. Hence Tammy's penalty is a huge jump with a dot, because a penalty is just about the best chance of scoring you can get.

PS. Stats can, of course, lie.

[spudski]

8 minutes ago, Olé said:

I've said it elsewhere but I just don't buy the chances stats. We are not creating a hatful of clear cut chances, and if the stats say that they are plain wrong. I am literally repeating something I wrote on here about 48 hours ago, but we are not putting the ball onto someones head or feet with only the keeper to beat. What little chances we create are Tammy having to outmuscle a defender and get a shot in, or a "midfielder" having a speculative shot from outside the box.

There needs to be a better stat that reflects the quality of the chance as I believe we would find we are not creating many of those chances. Flint's goal from a corner at Wolves was the first and only time anyone other than a striker scored inside the box over the past three months (since this poor run started). Besides Tammy and Wilbs, our only other goals have been Tomlin screamer at Cardiff, Freeman screamer, O'Neil from outside the box in garbage time at Reading.

If we really were creating a hatful of clear chances I would expect better examples of players scoring goals - Tammy's first yesterday and at Ipswich were both the result of goalkeeping mistakes. I love your insight and explanations, but I respectfully disagree performances are better than results. We are not creating or scoring clear chances as we commit so few people to attacking. As @samo II puts it - we are not really trying to actually win games. Horrible to say, but true.

Regarding foreigners - I agree (we adapt quite well ) - but I just think that it's a bit odd to place so much emphasis on bringing in experience and then turn to players who have no "course and distance" about this division. It seems at worst contradictory but at the very least, room for more excuses over the second half of the season if it doesn't work out and they can be thrown in the Engvall etc bucket. We are not lacking for quality, I thought it was the savvy we wanted.

I'm not sure what you are expecting mate tbh.

We have scored 33 goals this season.

Reading in 3rd have scored 36

Huddersfield in 4th have scored 3 less than us.

Sheff Wed in 6th have scored 6 less than us.

It's not creating and scoring goals that's the problem...it's conceding them. And then it's only a fine margin.

You can't argue with those Stats mate...it's a fact we are scoring plenty of goals compared with other teams in this league to be doing ok.

 

[Olé]

11 minutes ago, Olé said:

I've said it elsewhere but I just don't buy the chances stats.

Answer my own question. The stats do indeed show we are 2nd best in the league for creating chances (12th overall at home, 1st away from home). I don't believe this, so here is that record displayed over time:

Apparently we created 17 chances at Wolves. I don't remember or believe that. The other spikes which increase our overall record dramatically Rotherham away (10/9 - 26 chances, I do remember that, it was like the Alamo), Fulham away (24/9 - 17 chances, naturally), Reading away (26/11 - 21 chances, I can't comment as I was overseas), then the Brentford and Preston home games (16 and 14 chances respectfully - I don't remember that many being clear cut).

I'll let others comment, but these stats aren't reflected in the quality of more recent attacking performances as I remember them. Here are some other stats:

• Highest Pass Accuracy: Korey Smith (84% Pass Accuracy with 194 Comp. Passes)
• Highest Shot Accuracy: Gary O'Neil (75% Shot Accuracy with a Total 12 Shots)
• Most Completed Passes: Gary O'Neil (730 Completed Passes with a 79% Pass Accuracy) 
• Most Chances Created: Lee Tomlin (42 Chances Created: 5 Assists and 37 Key Passes) 

[Roger Red Hat]

1 hour ago, Midred said:

Point taken but had they "lost" him before they sold him? Would he have turned out to be another player here on sufferance?

I think JK had decided he was going. That doesn't mean to say we had to let him go at that point. He could have been told that he wasn't leaving  5 minutes before the window closed, but if he knuckled down maybe next time, by which time he may have scored a load more goals and we may have had time to scout a suitable replacement.

[Olé]

8 minutes ago, spudski said:

It's not creating and scoring goals that's the problem...it's conceding them. And then it's only a fine margin.

You can't argue with those Stats mate...it's a fact we are scoring plenty of goals compared with other teams in this league to be doing ok

The scoring since Christmas (albeit losing) has helped though - 5 goals in 3 games. I posted some stats just before Christmas after the Preston game as there was obviously a symmetry to our first 11 (to Forest) and second 11 games (largely given by most as our poor run). I don't have the numbers to hand but there was a far more pronounced swing in our goals scored than in our goals conceded. Scoring goals had become the problem for us, far more so than suddenly conceding many more. For me defending is a secondary issue that has arisen because we have run out of ideas in attack and put all the focus and pressure on the defence to keep us in games. I am not trying to be all "post-truth" and anti-expert though. We may have to agree to disagree .

[Red Exile]

I'm afraid that I'm coming to the conclusion, reluctantly, that it's not the structure of the club, the back office, MA and the scouting...and it's not the quality of the players or the philosophy that leads us to bring in the playing staff we have...and it's not LJ's tactical aspirations, regardless of whether we deliver them. I'm not sure that any of that is wrong, nor are they the reason it's not working.

I fear that the reason it's not working is because we have at the helm, in Lee Johnson, an inexperienced manager who lacks the experience of success to reassure and embolden a side of callow youths and "been there done that" pros who have achieved more in the game than he has. The Championship is a tough division. Up against gnarled old dogs like Warnock, Grayson or McCarthy, or seasoned Championship managers like Coyle or Lambert, or those with Prem experience like Gary Monk and Chris Hughton, to say nothing of Bruce and Benitez...our Lee looks a bit green. His peers are the chaps at Barnsley and Huddersfield...who are currently making a better fist of it. I've nothing against taking punt on him to succeed, although yesterday was a desperate capitulation which was an excruciating watch...not something I delight in a hundred mile round trip to witness. But if we are sticking with him I fear we may well go down, and however good he turns out to be we all know that Division 1 is a difficult league to escape from.

So I'm left feeling that, yet again, we've failed to invest in the area which the club needs more than any other - leadership. 

I'd suggest, on the basis of past appointments (and disappointments!) that SL isn't really comfortable with managers with footballing confidence and experience throwing their weight around...LJ is a comfortable option, and for now further comfort will be found in adding to the playing staff in the hope that things come good. Let's hope they do! I don't want to watch another abject surrender like we saw yesterday for a very long time...

[Portland Bill]

2 hours ago, Dr Balls said:

Have to agree that LJ & MA got carried away with the form at the end of last season & thought just one or 2 experienced players were needed & the rast of the signings could be "for the future". And it hasn't gone to plan. The talk of Europe within 5 years is looking particularly daft! Plus GON, Matthews & to a lesser extent Tomlin have not been the consistent players we might have hoped for. Plus I don't think they reckoned on losing Kodjia.

Quickly need to regroup as Blackburn amongst others have hit some form & we are now clearly in a relegation battle, with one of the least experienced squads at this level. 

LJ stuck Kodjia out on the wing during the first few games of the season. He had scored 20 goals the previous season as a central striker, what sort of message was LJ trying to convey to Kodjia?.

If LJ wanted to keep him he had a very strange way of showing it. Another case of LJ trying to be too clever for his own good.

[spudski]

26 minutes ago, Olé said:

The scoring since Christmas (albeit losing) has helped though - 5 goals in 3 games. I posted some stats just before Christmas after the Preston game as there was obviously a symmetry to our first 11 (to Forest) and second 11 games (largely given by most as our poor run). I don't have the numbers to hand but there was a far more pronounced swing in our goals scored than in our goals conceded. Scoring goals had become the problem for us, far more so than suddenly conceding many more. For me defending is a secondary issue that has arisen because we have run out of ideas in attack and put all the focus and pressure on the defence to keep us in games. I am not trying to be all "post-truth" and anti-expert though. We may have to agree to disagree .

When I read the comments by opposition managers and players, pre and post match, the common theme is that we are a threat going forward...one on one with Tammy and have a talented offensive midfield. If other teams are saying that, then surely you can see that offensively we are ok?

Take yesterday as an example...Reading said all of those things pre and post match again...they said our only downfall was sitting too deep in the second half, not pressing anymore, which allowed them to play.

A common theme with teams lacking in confidence and maturity, is to let heads drop and fall deep. This is where we needed a commanding DM to get a grip and marshal the players. Even Bryan said this is what happened. Wilbs and LJ were barking for the players to keep pressing...but they sat back. We don't have a leader on the pitch.

In fact....we are bloody too nice...even Flint a mountain of a man is too 'Gentle'.

What midfielder is going to come away from the likes of Bryan, Reid etc and feel intimidated. It's way too nice out there. Communication is also lacking...does Korey ever call for a ball or not listen when it's someone else's ball.

We need a leader of men, some aggression, some bite...we need to intimidate as well as play nice football.

Once we get some physicality and presence in the team, I feel we'll be ok.

Tbh...I said to someone earlier by pm, that I'm really excited about the second half of the season. Can't wait to see the new signings and how we keep developing.

I've got a positive feeling...still think we'll finish mid table comfortably and get better in the coming months.

[spudski]

6 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

LJ stuck Kodjia out on the wing during the first few games of the season. He had scored 20 goals the previous season as a central striker, what sort of message was LJ trying to convey to Kodjia?.

If LJ wanted to keep him he had a very strange way of showing it. Another case of LJ trying to be too clever for his own good.

Maybe the biggest problem would have been playing Tammy, Kodjia and Tomlin in the hole behind. Sounds lovely on paper...but we've seen how tough this league is....with the personnel we have in DM, we would have been just too weak defensively...we are now, even playing one up front, so think how much worse it would have been playing those three together.

What we also don't know, if the terms of contract with what we have with Tammy.

I understand he has to play a certain amount of games...does it also say that he has to play in a certain position?

I should imagine Chelsea would only let him come here, on the pretence that he plays, he plays as a central striker, and that we are going to play football in a certain way, so as not to deter from his development.