Olé Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 Not sure why I'm even starting another thread, but at least people who are convinced Lee Johnson is a brilliant young coach being badly maligned by knee jerk reactions, can't accuse me of not thinking through this post after 2 hours on a train. Here is the considered comment. What a total and utter shambles. Every week I'm forced to disbelieve what I see with my own eyes (Wolves, Ipswich) and think that I'm being unfair. Every actual game I see the same old rubbish from a team that has ZERO attacking plan or strategy and can't open up the opposition. We played a very poor Forest team (everything we expected) and the pinnacle of our plan was to contain them. Compact, defensive. OKAY, we are on a terrible run, we are starting defensive first. It makes sense - no one questioned it. But that's ALL City did. That's what really hurts. We had zero clue how to create a chance. We had zero shape worth attacking towards. We were a powder-puff attacking team against a set of players that were clearly far worse than ours and fans who were silent waiting for us to spank them. We're that bad, we just didn't bother. I've been to every away game on this dreadful run and City fans are unbelievably supportive and positive and LJ is just mugging everyone off. Today everyone seemed to be okay with the compact defensive shape given our form, but quickly transpired we had no idea for attack. As the game wears on and Forest's left winger (Ward) continually finds himself able to run at City players and do things, we realise how poor an attacking team we are - we can't do anything close to it. We are a punt upfield, occasionally a few passes, and a touch away from giving up. It feels more and more like our genius of a City head coach isn't seriously taking part as an attacking force. We had two good chances all game (second half) - a ball that made it to Paterson beyond the far post that he put wide, and a great passing move from the right that was well cut out. But those were miracles in of themselves. The way City setup, we may as well wear all white because Lee Johnson football involves surrendering all over the pitch and hoping to contain the opposition and (bizarrely) believing there might be a goal for us out of nothing but a punt. Someone who has seen a lot more City games than me (and routinely positive) put it very well today in the away end - under McInnes and the other crap managers you went along feeling like you were there helping a terrible team, this is SO MUCH worse, £15m of signings and a manager who has not a clue. I haven't really described much football, but there wasn't much! We were so devoid of tactics or ideas or desire, it was as bad as it gets. Forest pressed high up the pitch (something Fraud LJ claimed we'd do) and won the ball and ran at us. We punted it up to our strikers and hoped for a miracle. When we changed the team and formation at half time it was YET ANOTHER example of LJ having no idea what his best combination is. O'Dowda actually caused a few problems (including our best chance) but Brownhill didn't repeat his recent form, including a FK we wasted with our keeper up! Finally if anyone thought Tomlin is being hard done by, he came on, looked overweight, and managed nothing but a few terrible touches that gave the ball away in attacking positions. We clearly had zero plan for our record signing, he's a mess now and we are seeing his value diminished as a result. This is YET ANOTHER game where we've lost to a very poor relegation candidate, and LJ says we are fine, and people on here say we're all negative. I really have no idea what more you need to see to know the manager is totally and utterly out of his depth. This performance was beyond hopeless. Geifer 7 Wright 6 Flint 6 Magnusson 5 Little 4 Bryan 3 (he is getting worse and worse) O'Neil 6 Hegeler 7 (he must wish he never joined us) Paterson 4 (very poor) Djuric 5 (worst game yet - but hardly is fault, we don't create width or crosses) Abraham 5 (Chelsea must wish they had a recall, getting dragged down now) Subs - O'Dowda 6, Brownhill 5, Tomlin 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippycar Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 Excellent, reasoned and considered post, so why no response? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Fleuriot Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 I'm interested, and thanks for the report. Any chance of a little more on Giefler? Looks like a decent score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivorguy Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 How many of newbies will leave a sinking ship at first Opportunity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 Paterson a 4? At least that's an improvement on what I've seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHAGa Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 We never recovered from selling Kodjia. Abraham is a good poacher but we simply offer nothing as an attacking outlet, constantly putting our defence under pressure, and the squad isn't good enough to make up for that. Even when doing well earlier in the season, we were relying on Abraham or Tomlin to produce something out of nothing most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olé Posted January 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 5 minutes ago, Tom Fleuriot said: I'm interested, and thanks for the report. Any chance of a little more on Giefler? Looks like a decent score. One bad shanked open ball goal kick, one great close range save, everything else was textbook and looked really confident - came up for a free kick at the end and our numbskulls played it short and didn't even get it in the box. It was that sort of game. Dumb and dumber. If we can sign 9 more German players but most importantly a German manager, we might not get totally humiliated for the rest of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy62 Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 18 minutes ago, Olé said: Not sure why I'm even starting another thread, but at least people who are convinced Lee Johnson is a brilliant young coach being badly maligned by knee jerk reactions, can't accuse me of not thinking through this post after 2 hours on a train. Here is the considered comment. What a total and utter shambles. Every week I'm forced to disbelieve what I see with my own eyes (Wolves, Ipswich) and think that I'm being unfair. Every actual game I see the same old rubbish from a team that has ZERO attacking plan or strategy and can't open up the opposition. We played a very poor Forest team (everything we expected) and the pinnacle of our plan was to contain them. Compact, defensive. OKAY, we are on a terrible run, we are starting defensive first. It makes sense - no one questioned it. But that's ALL City did. That's what really hurts. We had zero clue how to create a chance. We had zero shape worth attacking towards. We were a powder-puff attacking team against a set of players that were clearly far worse than ours and fans who were silent waiting for us to spank them. We're that bad, we just didn't bother. I've been to every away game on this dreadful run and City fans are unbelievably supportive and positive and LJ is just mugging everyone off. Today everyone seemed to be okay with the compact defensive shape given our form, but quickly transpired we had no idea for attack. As the game wears on and Forest's left winger (Ward) continually finds himself able to run at City players and do things, we realise how poor an attacking team we are - we can't do anything close to it. We are a punt upfield, occasionally a few passes, and a touch away from giving up. It feels more and more like our genius of a City head coach isn't seriously taking part as an attacking force. We had two good chances all game (second half) - a ball that made it to Paterson beyond the far post that he put wide, and a great passing move from the right that was well cut out. But those were miracles in of themselves. The way City setup, we may as well wear all white because Lee Johnson football involves surrendering all over the pitch and hoping to contain the opposition and (bizarrely) believing there might be a goal for us out of nothing but a punt. Someone who has seen a lot more City games than me (and routinely positive) put it very well today in the away end - under McInnes and the other crap managers you went along feeling like you were there helping a terrible team, this is SO MUCH worse, £15m of signings and a manager who has not a clue. I haven't really described much football, but there wasn't much! We were so devoid of tactics or ideas or desire, it was as bad as it gets. Forest pressed high up the pitch (something Fraud LJ claimed we'd do) and won the ball and ran at us. We punted it up to our strikers and hoped for a miracle. When we changed the team and formation at half time it was YET ANOTHER example of LJ having no idea what his best combination is. O'Dowda actually caused a few problems (including our best chance) but Brownhill didn't repeat his recent form, including a FK we wasted with our keeper up! Finally if anyone thought Tomlin is being hard done by, he came on, looked overweight, and managed nothing but a few terrible touches that gave the ball away in attacking positions. We clearly had zero plan for our record signing, he's a mess now and we are seeing his value diminished as a result. This is YET ANOTHER game where we've lost to a very poor relegation candidate, and LJ says we are fine, and people on here say we're all negative. I really have no idea what more you need to see to know the manager is totally and utterly out of his depth. This performance was beyond hopeless. Geifer 7 Wright 6 Flint 6 Magnusson 5 Little 4 Bryan 3 (he is getting worse and worse) O'Neil 6 Hegeler 7 (he must wish he never joined us) Paterson 4 (very poor) Djuric 5 (worst game yet - but hardly is fault, we don't create width or crosses) Abraham 5 (Chelsea must wish they had a recall, getting dragged down now) Subs - O'Dowda 6, Brownhill 5, Tomlin 4 Cheers @Olé, your reports are fast becoming the only point of solace on a Saturday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 Out of interest did both Little and O'Neil look to be carrying injuries in the lead-up to half-time to warrant their substitution? I'm not trying to be controversial, but we've made lots of half-time subs this season. The injuries seemed convenient today, but I may be taliking sh1te. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS10 RED Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 Personally i thought Giefler looked pretty solid with what he had to do. Couldn't really help with the goal was a great piece of skill. Agree with Ole regarding Tomlin looked like he really couldn't give a f*** .Witch has upset me as I've always backed him in recent times. Maggy just punts the ball 60 yards every time he gets it. Bryan was very poor again Paterson well i can now see why Forest didn't want him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tears in rain Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 Must ask about the free kick they scored from... the GK is taking a lot of flak yet it didn't seem massively easy to get across and save (I know he didn't dive) What was the take on that anyone who went? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 Just now, MattRSp95 said: Must ask about the free kick they scored from... the GK is taking a lot of flak yet it didn't seem massively easy to get across and save (I know he didn't dive) What was the take on that anyone who went? Have seen it on the box. Not a chance of saving it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tears in rain Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 Just now, CotswoldRed said: Have seen it on the box. Not a chance of saving it. That's what I thought but the amount of abuse he is getting seems a little unfair especially when it sounds like he kept us in the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bissellredhead Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 4 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Out of interest did both Little and O'Neil look to be carrying injuries in the lead-up to half-time to warrant their substitution? I'm not trying to be controversial, but we've made lots of half-time subs this season. The injuries seemed convenient today, but I may be taliking sh1te. O'Neil was definitely struggling towards the end of the first half, didnt notice if little was injured though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North London Red Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 Agree with almost all of the OP's points but I have to say I don't think any of our players deserved more than a 6 out of 10, and the majority would probably get 5 or lower from me. Our keeper really didn't have much to do, but why was he completely static for Forest's goal? He also seemed too far across the goal when the free kick was taken - any effort that managed to get over the wall would have a high chance of being a goal, and a 100% chance of a goal if the keeper didn't move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 I think perhaps most telling and damning of all is that LJ is so low on confidence and belief in his own ability that he has put out a team today to just try and not get beat, as opposed to one that has any ambitions of actually winning the game. Last season and at the start of this he was always setting up in an attacking manner and willing to make attacking substitutions in order to try and win games. At times I felt he was almost too gung ho. Today we faced a Forest side also with no win in 7, no manager and fans protesting before the game. We should set up to get stuck into them straight away and pray on their fragile confidence. But it is clear our manager and players have no belief, no ideas, no leadership to be able to make any sort of impression on a side in such disarray. This perfectly illustrated the mess we are in and why SL of course must act NOW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokey Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 Just seen the florist goal and didn't think our keeper should of saved it, just thought great free kick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 We must be the crappest team in the division. No way would we have managed a 4-0 defeat at St James Park today. Would have been a cricket score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadredfred Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 I've seen the replay and I'm pretty sure if RO'D or FF had been fiddling with their boots, head down, stepping in the wrong direction half a second before the ball flew past them, they would be crucified. Thats a big error for me. But glad he had a good match the goal aside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hunt-Hertz Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 5 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said: I think perhaps most telling and damning of all is that LJ is so low on confidence and belief in his own ability that he has put out a team today to just try and not get beat, as opposed to one that has any ambitions of actually winning the game. Last season and at the start of this he was always setting up in an attacking manner and willing to make attacking substitutions in order to try and win games. At times I felt he was almost too gung ho. Today we faced a Forest side also with no win in 7, no manager and fans protesting before the game. We should set up to get stuck into them straight away and pray on their fragile confidence. But it is clear our manager and players have no belief, no ideas, no leadership to be able to make any sort of impression on a side in such disarray. This perfectly illustrated the mess we are in and why SL of course must act NOW. Their fans must have thought Christmas had come early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddoc Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 Ok, I enjoy reading your posts, can't fail to agree, but considering the investment that the board has placed in Ashton and of course an unproven LJ, I keep wandering back to this mystical project that everyone within the club has apparently signed up to. Players signing refer to it. What is it? I would assume a project would include in it's origins a style of play. Something new that allows people to buy into it and reference it in the way that we've seen. Dutch total football, the invention of the sweeper, Graham Taylor's, most goals are scored with three pass's or less. And having decided on this style of play, we buy these exciting young players with a resale value to fit into it. So do we have a style of play? A formation we recognise that we're trying to bring selected players into because they complement this style? If so it's well concealed. So watching us in freefall, changing formation and lineup on a weekly basis, and returning to the original question, what is this ******* project? Con of the century? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 1 minute ago, reddoc said: Ok, I enjoy reading your posts, can't fail to agree, but considering the investment that the board has placed in Ashton and of course an unproven LJ, I keep wandering back to this mystical project that everyone within the club has apparently signed up to. Players signing refer to it. What is it? I would assume a project would include in it's origins a style of play. Something new that allows people to buy into it and reference it in the way that we've seen. Dutch total football, the invention of the sweeper, Graham Taylor's, most goals are scored with three pass's or less. And having decided on this style of play, we buy these exciting young players with a resale value to fit into it. So do we have a style of play? A formation we recognise that we're trying to bring selected players into because they complement this style? If so it's well concealed. So watching us in freefall, changing formation and lineup on a weekly basis, and returning to the original question, what is this ******* project? Con of the century? Its the philosophy, stupid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddoc Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 Just now, CotswoldRed said: Its the philosophy, stupid! Bollocks, forgot that. Could have saved myself 15 mins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TV Tom Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 14 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said: I think perhaps most telling and damning of all is that LJ is so low on confidence and belief in his own ability that he has put out a team today to just try and not get beat, as opposed to one that has any ambitions of actually winning the game. Last season and at the start of this he was always setting up in an attacking manner and willing to make attacking substitutions in order to try and win games. At times I felt he was almost too gung ho. Today we faced a Forest side also with no win in 7, no manager and fans protesting before the game. We should set up to get stuck into them straight away and pray on their fragile confidence. But it is clear our manager and players have no belief, no ideas, no leadership to be able to make any sort of impression on a side in such disarray. This perfectly illustrated the mess we are in and why SL of course must act NOW. When the team was announced thus afternoon many on this forum were saying what a good team it looked, we have one player of pure quality who can win a game on his own (excluding Tammy) and he leaves him on the bench Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samo II Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, CotswoldRed said: We must be the crappest team in the division. No way would we have managed a 4-0 defeat at St James Park today. Would have been a cricket score. You want to know something frightening I realised after seeing the Rotherham result today? Even though they got beat 4-0, are rock bottom, and are nine points from safety - they've still won three games in their last eight matches. Let that sink in - at one point we had 27 points (and still do) while Rotherham had just SEVEN. And across our record losing run they've got themselves within 11 points of us. We lose to Wednesday and they get let's say they get a point over their next two games (Barnsley at home, Forest away; think it's possible), and they could beat us at the Gate and pull within seven points of overtaking us. Considering Rotherham look absolutely dead in the water already, the idea we that current form could lead to us finishing below them should scare the living snot out of us all. All those one goal losses add up, and the sum is relegation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chappers Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 Pretty accurate assessment, totally abysmal, no shape, no pace, no tactics, all against a very poor Forest team. Keeper generally looked OK, not over-worked in a poor game. I can't see how we can now delay making a change, confidence is shot to pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwaystomorrow Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 45 minutes ago, Olé said: Not sure why I'm even starting another thread, but at least people who are convinced Lee Johnson is a brilliant young coach being badly maligned by knee jerk reactions, can't accuse me of not thinking through this post after 2 hours on a train. Here is the considered comment. What a total and utter shambles. Every week I'm forced to disbelieve what I see with my own eyes (Wolves, Ipswich) and think that I'm being unfair. Every actual game I see the same old rubbish from a team that has ZERO attacking plan or strategy and can't open up the opposition. We played a very poor Forest team (everything we expected) and the pinnacle of our plan was to contain them. Compact, defensive. OKAY, we are on a terrible run, we are starting defensive first. It makes sense - no one questioned it. But that's ALL City did. That's what really hurts. We had zero clue how to create a chance. We had zero shape worth attacking towards. We were a powder-puff attacking team against a set of players that were clearly far worse than ours and fans who were silent waiting for us to spank them. We're that bad, we just didn't bother. I've been to every away game on this dreadful run and City fans are unbelievably supportive and positive and LJ is just mugging everyone off. Today everyone seemed to be okay with the compact defensive shape given our form, but quickly transpired we had no idea for attack. As the game wears on and Forest's left winger (Ward) continually finds himself able to run at City players and do things, we realise how poor an attacking team we are - we can't do anything close to it. We are a punt upfield, occasionally a few passes, and a touch away from giving up. It feels more and more like our genius of a City head coach isn't seriously taking part as an attacking force. We had two good chances all game (second half) - a ball that made it to Paterson beyond the far post that he put wide, and a great passing move from the right that was well cut out. But those were miracles in of themselves. The way City setup, we may as well wear all white because Lee Johnson football involves surrendering all over the pitch and hoping to contain the opposition and (bizarrely) believing there might be a goal for us out of nothing but a punt. Someone who has seen a lot more City games than me (and routinely positive) put it very well today in the away end - under McInnes and the other crap managers you went along feeling like you were there helping a terrible team, this is SO MUCH worse, £15m of signings and a manager who has not a clue. I haven't really described much football, but there wasn't much! We were so devoid of tactics or ideas or desire, it was as bad as it gets. Forest pressed high up the pitch (something Fraud LJ claimed we'd do) and won the ball and ran at us. We punted it up to our strikers and hoped for a miracle. When we changed the team and formation at half time it was YET ANOTHER example of LJ having no idea what his best combination is. O'Dowda actually caused a few problems (including our best chance) but Brownhill didn't repeat his recent form, including a FK we wasted with our keeper up! Finally if anyone thought Tomlin is being hard done by, he came on, looked overweight, and managed nothing but a few terrible touches that gave the ball away in attacking positions. We clearly had zero plan for our record signing, he's a mess now and we are seeing his value diminished as a result. This is YET ANOTHER game where we've lost to a very poor relegation candidate, and LJ says we are fine, and people on here say we're all negative. I really have no idea what more you need to see to know the manager is totally and utterly out of his depth. This performance was beyond hopeless. Geifer 7 Wright 6 Flint 6 Magnusson 5 Little 4 Bryan 3 (he is getting worse and worse) O'Neil 6 Hegeler 7 (he must wish he never joined us) Paterson 4 (very poor) Djuric 5 (worst game yet - but hardly is fault, we don't create width or crosses) Abraham 5 (Chelsea must wish they had a recall, getting dragged down now) Subs - O'Dowda 6, Brownhill 5, Tomlin 4 Mr Lansdown please read the above very sensible, well argued, logical post. It says everything that the majority of fans feel. The time has come. Swallow your pride, pay the man off, shake his hand, say thank you for trying and move on. not the greatest decision of your life by extending his contract but we all make mistakes. Mr Lansdown, we know you love the club and we thank you for all you done to date, we really do, but you have to remove LJ whilst there is still time to try to salvage our season. we know you must be as disappointed as the rest of us, but you are in the privileged position of being able to do something about it. please act, NOW. PS a great post Ole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 For my tuppence. LJ should have gone several games ago. He has baffled himself and those who have consistently pointed that out have come in for some right old stick because it was pointed out. I really can't take any more of this tripe and utter nonsense. It's now just resignation to the fact LJ is out of his depth. Why would anyone hand a bloke an open checkbook having never actually had any money. Its not my wedge some would say but the money you pay in shirts tickets programs is! LJ needs to resign. If he is the mate of SLs some say he is then tomorrow looks good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 1 minute ago, REDOXO said: For my tuppence. LJ should have gone several games ago. He has baffled himself and those who have consistently pointed that out have come in for some right old stick because it was pointed out. I really can't take any more of this tripe and utter nonsense. It's now just resignation to the fact LJ is out of his depth. Why would anyone hand a bloke an open checkbook having never actually had any money. Its not my wedge some would say but the money you pay in shirts tickets programs is! LJ needs to resign. If he is the mate of SLs some say he is then tomorrow looks good Yup. No way does LJ believe he can get us out of this. Body language speaks volumes. Your missus deserves her happier husband back. Take a break, knowing you tried your best and saved your team from relegation last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 3 hours ago, CotswoldRed said: Yup. No way does LJ believe he can get us out of this. Body language speaks volumes. Your missus deserves her happier husband back. Take a break, knowing you tried your best and saved your team from relegation last season. My Mrs has just laughed her head off. We are planning being in Brizz/Cotswolds soon. She is delighted about one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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