Options for Saturday....

[spudski]

So....we've got some exciting new signings in and a draw under our belt to stop the rot. The Relegation battle starts... Our aim has to be to finish mid table and instil confidence for next season.

So many options now. However I still worry about our fullbacks...Little needs help every game...and like yesterday our tracking back, covering at LB costs us goals nearly every game.

Thinking ahead to Rotherham....3 solid defenders, good cover and ability to cross from wide midfield. Decent cover CM and ability to pass.  Creativity in CM. Goals up front. On paper....

------------------------------------------------------------------------------Geifer-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------Wright-----------------------------------------------Flint-------------------------------------Magners-------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------Brownhill/GoN---------------------------------------Hegeler-------------------------------------------------------------

Cotterhill------------------------------------------------------------------Tomlin-----------------------------------------------------------------------------Bryan

---------------------------------------Tammy------------------------------------------------------------Duric/Taylor-----------------------------------------------

 

[Guest]

Personally hope we start with the same 11. We have to stop changing it around every week 

[Redtucks]

2 minutes ago, spudski said:

So....we've got some exciting new signings in and a draw under our belt to stop the rot. The Relegation battle starts... Our aim has to be to finish mid table and instil confidence for next season.

So many options now. However I still worry about our fullbacks...Little needs help every game...and like yesterday our tracking back, covering at LB costs us goals nearly every game.

Thinking ahead to Rotherham....3 solid defenders, good cover and ability to cross from wide midfield. Decent cover CM and ability to pass.  Creativity in CM. Goals up front. On paper....

------------------------------------------------------------------------------Geifer-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------Wright-----------------------------------------------Flint-------------------------------------Magners-------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------Brownhill/GoN---------------------------------------Hegeler-------------------------------------------------------------

Cotterhill------------------------------------------------------------------Tomlin-----------------------------------------------------------------------------Bryan

---------------------------------------Tammy------------------------------------------------------------Duric/Taylor-----------------------------------------------

 

Would rather have Thatchers instead of Magners!!!

 

[BigTone]

3 minutes ago, Tomarse said:

Personally hope we start with the same 11. We have to stop changing it around every week 

Agreed, all this scientific crap is all very well but you need a settled side

[Phileas Fogg]

1 minute ago, BigTone said:

Agreed, all this scientific crap is all very well but you need a settled side

What do you mean?

I like Spudski's side and on paper that probably is our strongest available side with players playing in their most effective positions. I can understand the argument for keeping the same team as last night though. 

[spudski]

I'm all for a settled side...but counting one game, yesterday as a 'settled' side is pushing it a bit...it's just one game. The reason I set that side up like that, as it covers our weaknesses at fullbacks and gives better strengths across the pitch. And as Foggy said...it's probably our strongest players playing in their most effective positions.

[BigTone]

2 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

 

 I can understand the argument for keeping the same team as last night though. 

That is my point, however we won't and that is guaranteed and you know it as well as I do.

[Phileas Fogg]

Just now, BigTone said:

That is my point, however we won't and that is guaranteed and you know it as well as I do.

I meant the 'scientific crap' bit - I expect we will change the side. I'd like to think we would do something similar to what Spudski has said partly as I think it'll get the best out of Tomlin.

Has Cotterill played many games at RWB? I haven't followed him at Birmingham really. I think he could be very good on that side, maybe a bit like what Elliot Bennett was as a RWB/Winger. 

[Numero Uno]

13 minutes ago, Tomarse said:

Personally hope we start with the same 11. We have to stop changing it around every week 

Yep, LJ is like a kid in a bloody sweet shop and look where we find ourselves.

[Super]

Cotts must come in for COD.

[BigTone]

1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I meant the 'scientific crap' bit -  

Why do you think the side changes week in, week out. Do we need drones to show our Head Coach the "shape of the team" in training and tinker the formation every week. In my mind a good settled side should have tactically aware players who can adapt to their oppositions style of play.

[Mendip City]

6 minutes ago, BigTone said:

Why do you think the side changes week in, week out. Do we need drones to show our Head Coach the "shape of the team" in training and tinker the formation every week. In my mind a good settled side should have tactically aware players who can adapt to their oppositions style of play.

Exactly AND it focuses on us, our style of play, imposing "us" on "them" rather than negatively picking a team to counteract the opposition and to use some LJ speak, gives us an identity. 

[Mendip City]

2 minutes ago, Mendip City said:

double post 

 

[1960maaan]

I like this team, but I would like to see Bryan's place taken by COD. I know it would weaken us defensively but two genuine wide men on their proper wings , could be exciting. With Duric in the middle with Tammy lots of threat.

But, we live in the real world where teams keep trying to score against us.  I would say start Duric , he needs to be given a decent run , then if we're doing ok bring on Taylor along side him and give Tammy a rest. Long, long time since we've been in that position, and maybe a reason Engvall didn't get more (?) of a chance.

Oh, I meant to say. Gary Owers seemed to talk a lot of sense last night, surprised he's not manager/coach at a League club. Always liked him.

[Phileas Fogg]

5 minutes ago, BigTone said:

Why do you think the side changes week in, week out. Do we need drones to show our Head Coach the "shape of the team" in training and tinker the formation every week. In my mind a good settled side should have tactically aware players who can adapt to their oppositions style of play.

I see, I don't think changing the team is down to 'scientific crap' it's just something he does - rightly or wrongly.

As for the drones and modern analysis methods, I know you're not a fan but all of those tools to gather information is useful and worthwhile. Just because we're on a poor run doesn't change that - all the top clubs have a ridiculous amount of tools to gather information about their players. It's not uncommon.

[Robbored]

25 minutes ago, Tomarse said:

Personally hope we start with the same 11. We have to stop changing it around every week 

Can't see that happening Tom.

Two new signings in Taylor and Cotterill will probably both start. 

Shame LJ didn't recruit an experienced RB tho, I thought Little was very poor last night.

[BobBobSuperBob]

3 minutes ago, BigTone said:

Why do you think the side changes week in, week out. Do we need drones to show our Head Coach the "shape of the team" in training and tinker the formation every week. In my mind a good settled side should have tactically aware players who can adapt to their oppositions style of play.

 

10 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I meant the 'scientific crap' bit - I expect we will change the side. I'd like to think we would do something similar to what Spudski has said partly as I think it'll get the best out of Tomlin.

Has Cotterill played many games at RWB? I haven't followed him at Birmingham really. I think he could be very good on that side, maybe a bit like what Elliot Bennett was as a RWB/Winger. 

Your 'conversation' got me thinking and I do wonder whether one of Lees major issues/problems may be that he over complicates and over analyses , constantly tinkering with our formation and personnel because of the opposition.

Now of course , analysis and awareness of opposition set ups , set pieces , strengths and weaknesses can only help but it also strikes me that Lee almost gets 'strangled' by thinking too deeply , too intensely - I can imagine through his determination and enthusiasm sitting up on his laptop at 2 in the morning analysing our next opponents

Sometimes too much information can be bad I'd suggest

Is our coach  in 'information overload' ?

In a strange way has our enhanced / expanded analysis department actually a source of a current problem ?

(That sounds madness and in any real sense can't be correct , I'd suggest availability of all the analysis material is good and should be a pot to dip in and utilise but not  IMHO something that should dictate your every turn and decision - I just wonder whether Lee has that balance right ? 

I can see what BIg Tone is saying - Drones etc are nice things to have available for a specific ODD purpose , but I do wonder whether we spend more time looking at videos and data than what's happening close up and personal.

SAF was happy to stand , watch and analyse himself, what he saw - he wanted to get a 'feel' about a player , or how intense training was - Most great managers / coaches actually rely on great instinct rather than data)

 

I have no evidence that Lee is over the top in analysis other than bits of interviews and the constant tinkering

Just a thought 

[Chappers]

Just keep it simple, 4-4-1-1 seems to be the shape that the players are most comfortable with and understand. We don't have the quality of wing backs to play that system, and shuffling it all around just to accommodate new players is never a good idea. Even starting with a second striker means shuffling things about to accommodate Tomlin, so just keep it simple.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

8 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Can't see that happening Tom.

Two new signings in Taylor and Cotterill will probably both start. 

Shame LJ didn't recruit an experienced RB tho, I thought Little was very poor last night.

I think Taylor and Cotterill will start too, and to accommodate two up front with Tomlin in the hole he would have to go three at the back.  I thought Hegeler was mediocre last night, and I'd put him back in the back three.  As to Little, once Tomlin came off the right wing he improved no end, as he no longer had to do the job of two players.  I thought he was pretty good in the second half.

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 minute ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

I think Taylor and Cotterill will start too, and to accommodate two up front with Tomlin in the hole he would have to go three at the back.  I thought Hegeler was mediocre last night, and I'd put him back in the back three.  As to Little, once Tomlin came off the right wing he improved no end, as he no longer had to do the job of two players.  I thought he was pretty good in the second half.

Will be very very surprised if Taylor starts 

LJ has already said he's a punt / bit of a gamble and may well have him as a wild card on the bench but will be surprised if he forces a starting place very soon (Though will be quite happy if he does because he's hit the ground running !)

[spudski]

2 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

 

Your 'conversation' got me thinking and I do wonder whether one of Lees major issues/problems may be that he over complicates and over analyses , constantly tinkering with our formation and personnel because of the opposition.

Now of course , analysis and awareness of opposition set ups , set pieces , strengths and weaknesses can only help but it also strikes me that Lee almost gets 'strangled' by thinking too deeply , too intensely - I can imagine through his determination and enthusiasm sitting up on his laptop at 2 in the morning analysing our next opponents

Sometimes too much information can be bad I'd suggest

Is our coach  in 'information overload' ?

In a strange way has our enhanced / expanded analysis department actually a source of a current problem ?

(That sounds madness and in any real sense can't be correct , I'd suggest availability of all the analysis material is good and should be a pot to dip in and utilise but not  IMHO something that should dictate your every turn and decision - I just wonder whether Lee has that balance right ? 

I can see what BIg Tone is saying - Drones etc are nice things to have available for a specific ODD purpose , but I do wonder whether we spend more time looking at videos and data than what's happening close up and personal.

SAF was happy to stand , watch and analyse himself, what he saw - he wanted to get a 'feel' about a player , or how intense training was - Most great managers / coaches actually rely on great instinct rather than data)

 

I have no evidence that Lee is over the top in analysis other than bits of interviews and the constant tinkering

Just a thought 

I think our 'tinkering' has been more down to the injuries to GoN, Matthews, Smith and lately Magners mate.

If they were not injured we'd be more sttled imo.

In saying that, tinkering to find our best side on the day, will also take into account lack of fitness or loss of form...which we've had with Tomlin, Little, Golbourne and Bryan.

Plus our GK problems.

That's a lot of problems to try and resolve.

I believe we'd have a much more settled side if we hadn't had these issues...and it's something a lot of people seem to over look.

One for our dad's last night mate...smile on my old mans face when our second went in was pure gold ;-)

[Robbored]

7 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

 

Your 'conversation' got me thinking and I do wonder whether one of Lees major issues/problems may be that he over complicates and over analyses , constantly tinkering with our formation and personnel because of the opposition.

Now of course , analysis and awareness of opposition set ups , set pieces , strengths and weaknesses can only help but it also strikes me that Lee almost gets 'strangled' by thinking too deeply , too intensely - I can imagine through his determination and enthusiasm sitting up on his laptop at 2 in the morning analysing our next opponents

Sometimes too much information can be bad I'd suggest

Is our coach  in 'information overload' ?

In a strange way has our enhanced / expanded analysis department actually a source of a current problem ?

(That sounds madness and in any real sense can't be correct , I'd suggest availability of all the analysis material is good and should be a pot to dip in and utilise but not  IMHO something that should dictate your every turn and decision - I just wonder whether Lee has that balance right ? 

I can see what BIg Tone is saying - Drones etc are nice things to have available for a specific ODD purpose , but I do wonder whether we spend more time looking at videos and data than what's happening close up and personal.

SAF was happy to stand , watch and analyse himself, what he saw - he wanted to get a 'feel' about a player , or how intense training was - Most great managers / coaches actually rely on great instinct rather than data)

 

I have no evidence that Lee is over the top in analysis other than bits of interviews and the constant tinkering

 

An excellent post Bob. 

Good points and well made.

[BCFC_Dan]

50 minutes ago, Tomarse said:

Personally hope we start with the same 11. We have to stop changing it around every week 

Entirely agree, especially for a game where we expect to attack for most of the game and really need a good win.

I'm not sure I'd put either of the new signings in right away. Cotterill maybe but I don't see how Taylor improves anything. Much better to stick with a settled side and let them grow in confidence together.

[cidered abroad]

52 minutes ago, Tomarse said:

Personally hope we start with the same 11. We have to stop changing it around every week 

Cotterill wide right, Callum wide left and JB left back.

But also like the 3-5-2 in first post as it brings back Hordur.

I thought Djuric did ok as sub.

[BobBobSuperBob]

18 minutes ago, Robbored said:

An excellent post Bob. 

Good points and well made.

Thankyou

Im an analyser (Ironically ) and it was PF and Big Tones conversation that homed in on a possible problem

Its difficult / impossible to tell unless you shadowed LJ all week but I wonder if he's got that balance between analysing and going with good old 'gut instinct' ('Gut instinct' is anything but , it's a decision ,made in the brain ,based on the information you have in your head rather than on a lap top or piece of paper)

I wonder if the 'modern Coach'  label has run on too quick at the moment

If Lee is to progress , he may need to redress the balance,  get back to basics and now we have the squad we have , decide on our best way to play for the rest of this scrap and work and work on improving our game rather than worrying how we are going to out manoeuvre our next opponents

Be aware of their strengths and weaknesses etc etc but be careful they don't dictate how we play before a ball is even picked

We have a lot of new players to integrate into the squad and starting 11 potentially - I'd suggest the last thing we need to do on top is over complicate things

If Lee does over complicate and tinker too much I fear we are in major trouble - keep it relatively simple and with the squad we have - we'd have a real chance

I do wonder what JP thinks of some of our set ups !

I hope JP might be able to influence Lee to do what he did when he took over the role this time last year , which to me was , he kept it simple ,  round pegs , round holes , got the players fired up and ..jobs a good in !!

@spudski I do accept injuries havnt helped  but I think there are many changes that aren't injury related - and not being able to find a keeper who doesn't make an error every other game doesn't help , I agree !!!

 

[spudski]

22 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

 

Your 'conversation' got me thinking and I do wonder whether one of Lees major issues/problems may be that he over complicates and over analyses , constantly tinkering with our formation and personnel because of the opposition.

Now of course , analysis and awareness of opposition set ups , set pieces , strengths and weaknesses can only help but it also strikes me that Lee almost gets 'strangled' by thinking too deeply , too intensely - I can imagine through his determination and enthusiasm sitting up on his laptop at 2 in the morning analysing our next opponents

Sometimes too much information can be bad I'd suggest

Is our coach  in 'information overload' ?

In a strange way has our enhanced / expanded analysis department actually a source of a current problem ?

(That sounds madness and in any real sense can't be correct , I'd suggest availability of all the analysis material is good and should be a pot to dip in and utilise but not  IMHO something that should dictate your every turn and decision - I just wonder whether Lee has that balance right ? 

I can see what BIg Tone is saying - Drones etc are nice things to have available for a specific ODD purpose , but I do wonder whether we spend more time looking at videos and data than what's happening close up and personal.

SAF was happy to stand , watch and analyse himself, what he saw - he wanted to get a 'feel' about a player , or how intense training was - Most great managers / coaches actually rely on great instinct rather than data)

 

I have no evidence that Lee is over the top in analysis other than bits of interviews and the constant tinkering

Just a thought 

He makes a lot of sense...

1. Listen: Most people don't use their eyes and ears effectively. As a result they miss half of what's going on around them. There's a reason God gave us two ears, two eyes and one mouth. It's so you can listen and watch twice as much as you talk. Best of all, listening costs you nothing.

2. Value discipline: Once you bid farewell to discipline you say goodbye to success and set the stage for anarchy. Weed out players who are disruptive or undermine unity, even if they are individually talented.

3. Be present: Leaders underestimate just how important their presence can be.

 

4. Recognize hunger: For years, I've tried to fathom why some people possess greater drive than others. I'm not closer to solving that riddle, but I learned how to harness that power. If I had to pick between work ethic or talent as the most potent fuel, it would be the former.

5. Focus on the pipeline: When you run any organization, you have to look as far down the road as far you can and create a conveyor belt of talent. Gradually move older players out and younger players in. It's always easier to produce a consistent level of high performance when you nourish youngsters. They can inject fantastic spirit and will repay you back with loyalty. Once they know you are batting for them, they will accept your way.

6. Command respect: You can't aspire to be loved, because that isn't going to happen, Nor do you want people to be frightened of you. Stay somewhere in the middle and have them respect and trust and see you as fair.

7. Never be afraid to fire someone: Firing people is never easy. But there is no point beating around the bush, by taking them out for dinner. Gimmicks don't change the message. If you decide to get rid of someone, nothing beats honesty.

8. Keep a firm grip on control: Don't allow anyone to be stronger than you. Your personality has to be bigger than theirs. That's vital. It's not about looking for adversity or for opportunities to prove power; it's about having control and being authoritative when issues do arise.

9. Own the message: Whether the message is one person or 75,000, you need to assemble your thoughts, know what you want to emphasize and just say it. In meetings it is important to maintain eye contact and look directly at someone because it adds intensity to the delivery of the message. And never rely on notes. Nobody will ever believe that someone is an authority on a subject if they keep resorting to notes.

10. Use simple language — or none at all: Too many managers talk too much. The two most important words for a player, or for any human being, there is nothing better than hearing "Well done." And few reprimands are as powerful as silence.

[Phileas Fogg]

6 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Thankyou

Im an analyser (Ironically ) and it was PF and Big Tones conversation that homed in on a possible problem

Its difficult / impossible to tell unless you shadowed LJ all week but I wonder if he's got that balance between analysing and going with good old 'gut instinct' ('Gut instinct' is anything but , it's a decision ,made in the brain ,based on the information you have in your head rather than on a lap top or piece of paper)

I wonder if the 'modern Coach'  label has run on too quick at the moment

If Lee is to progress , he may need to redress the balance,  get back to basics and now we have the squad we have , decide on our best way to play for the rest of this scrap and work and work on improving our game rather than worrying how we are going to out manoeuvre our next opponents

Be aware of their strengths and weaknesses etc etc but be careful they don't dictate how we play before a ball is even picked

We have a lot of new players to integrate into the squad and starting 11 potentially - I'd suggest the last thing we need to do on top is over complicate things

If Lee does over complicate and tinker too much I fear we are in major trouble - keep it relatively simple and with the squad we have - we'd have a real chance

I do wonder what JP thinks of some of our set ups !

I hope JP might be able to influence Lee to do what he did when he took over the role this time last year , which to me was , he kept it simple ,  round pegs , round holes , got the players fired up and ..jobs a good in !!

 

Interestingly it was Cotterill who introduced some ideas which LJ has kept which probably would be called 'new fangled' by some! 

If i'm correct - the players use a combination of phone apps and monitors to record everything from their sleep to their mood which they then feedback to the club each morning.

I believe too that Cotterill went to a seminar in France on 532/352 which showed how fluid and successful the formation can be and he implemented it when he came here.

I think if Pemberton felt too frustrated or that he wasn't being listened to he'd have left - i'm sure he could easily get a job much closer to Sheffield but has chosen to stay under 3 different managers now. Who knows, maybe he relies on analysis heavily himself.

I think sometimes the way managers speak can be misleading and we don't really know what goes on at the club on a daily basis. What we get from LJ though is far more of an insight into how things work - which I really like - that perhaps has created a conception that he over-complicates things. Football is about fine margins so much now because the players are all top level athletes. It really is the extra 1 or 2% that make a difference and I believe LJ when he talks about this. Anything to get an advantage over the opposition will be used and all clubs in the top few leagues will be using more and more analysis now.

Interestingly it was actually Sam Allerdyce (not your archetypal 'modern coach') who introduced lots of this after he spent time in America. His Bolton set up had a bunker where he and his team of coaches and analysts picked apart statistical analysis.

[BobBobSuperBob]

4 minutes ago, spudski said:

He makes a lot of sense...

1. Listen: Most people don't use their eyes and ears effectively. As a result they miss half of what's going on around them. There's a reason God gave us two ears, two eyes and one mouth. It's so you can listen and watch twice as much as you talk. Best of all, listening costs you nothing.

2. Value discipline: Once you bid farewell to discipline you say goodbye to success and set the stage for anarchy. Weed out players who are disruptive or undermine unity, even if they are individually talented.

3. Be present: Leaders underestimate just how important their presence can be.

 

4. Recognize hunger: For years, I've tried to fathom why some people possess greater drive than others. I'm not closer to solving that riddle, but I learned how to harness that power. If I had to pick between work ethic or talent as the most potent fuel, it would be the former.

5. Focus on the pipeline: When you run any organization, you have to look as far down the road as far you can and create a conveyor belt of talent. Gradually move older players out and younger players in. It's always easier to produce a consistent level of high performance when you nourish youngsters. They can inject fantastic spirit and will repay you back with loyalty. Once they know you are batting for them, they will accept your way.

6. Command respect: You can't aspire to be loved, because that isn't going to happen, Nor do you want people to be frightened of you. Stay somewhere in the middle and have them respect and trust and see you as fair.

7. Never be afraid to fire someone: Firing people is never easy. But there is no point beating around the bush, by taking them out for dinner. Gimmicks don't change the message. If you decide to get rid of someone, nothing beats honesty.

8. Keep a firm grip on control: Don't allow anyone to be stronger than you. Your personality has to be bigger than theirs. That's vital. It's not about looking for adversity or for opportunities to prove power; it's about having control and being authoritative when issues do arise.

9. Own the message: Whether the message is one person or 75,000, you need to assemble your thoughts, know what you want to emphasize and just say it. In meetings it is important to maintain eye contact and look directly at someone because it adds intensity to the delivery of the message. And never rely on notes. Nobody will ever believe that someone is an authority on a subject if they keep resorting to notes.

10. Use simple language — or none at all: Too many managers talk too much. The two most important words for a player, or for any human being, there is nothing better than hearing "Well done." And few reprimands are as powerful as silence.

This isn't from SAF is it Spud ?

[spudski]

1 minute ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

This isn't from SAF is it Spud ?

Yes mate...it's his top 10 thoughts for leadership from his book.

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Interestingly it was Cotterill who introduced some ideas which LJ has kept which probably would be called 'new fangled' by some! 

If i'm correct - the players use a combination of phone apps and monitors to record everything from their sleep to their mood which they then feedback to the club each morning.

I believe too that Cotterill went to a seminar in France on 532/352 which showed how fluid and successful the formation can be and he implemented it when he came here.

I think if Pemberton felt too frustrated or that he wasn't being listened to he'd have left - i'm sure he could easily get a job much closer to Sheffield but has chosen to stay under 3 different managers now. Who knows, maybe he relies on analysis heavily himself.

I think sometimes the way managers speak can be misleading and we don't really know what goes on at the club on a daily basis. What we get from LJ though is far more of an insight into how things work - which I really like - that perhaps has created a conception that he over-complicates things. Football is about fine margins so much now because the players are all top level athletes. It really is the extra 1 or 2% that make a difference and I believe LJ when he talks about this. Anything to get an advantage over the opposition will be used.

Agree with all that PF and I fully endorse the use of science and technology where it can help

I just wonder about the balance of the various aspects and impact on a coaches time and his mental energy

As a simple example , does the analysis impact on time he has with players , even if it means he has less time to mix with players away from the training pitch etc (I'm not suggesting it does but it's the sort of thing that could throw the %2 gains in reverse 

[BobBobSuperBob]

3 minutes ago, spudski said:

Yes mate...it's his top 10 thoughts for leadership from his book.

I didn't know that - but reading it you could see him saying them !!!

[Phileas Fogg]

3 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Agree with all that PF and I fully endorse the use of science and technology where it can help

I just wonder about the balance of the various aspects and impact on a coaches time and his mental energy

As a simple example , does the analysis impact on time he has with players , even if it means he has less time to mix with players away from the training pitch etc (I'm not suggesting it does but it's the sort of thing that could throw the %2 gains in reverse 

True, would love to get an insight into how it really is at the club. Would be very interesting to see what happens at training and how the team are spoken to in the dressing room. It's partly why i've always liked sitting nearish the home dugout in the Williams (now Lansdown) - I enjoyed seeing how the management interacted with players on the pitch - was particularly good with Cotterill as you could hear every word and of course every single expletive!

[spudski]

3 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I didn't know that - but reading it you could see him saying them !!!

I think his point number 8 would probably be LJ's hardest thing to over come in the squad with some players. As it is with any manager in any walk of life, who is younger and has people under him who have achieved more or similar in age.

1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said:

True, would love to get an insight into how it really is at the club. Would be very interesting to see what happens at training and how the team are spoken to in the dressing room. It's partly why i've always liked sitting nearish the home dugout in the Williams (now Lansdown) - I enjoyed seeing how the management interacted with players on the pitch - was particularly good with Cotterill as you could hear every word and of course every single expletive!

I'd definitely ban mobile phones from all players and those not in the squad who are watching on. Amount of times I've seen them looking at their phones instead of the game...not Professional imo.

[rednotblue]

Drones etc are only worth while if you know how to interpret the information. 

Keeping a settled side is very important as players get used to each other and 'know' where each other are.

IMHO not having a settled midfield  has contributed to our current position. How many times have we fielded the same midfield consecutively? 

 

[BobBobSuperBob]

3 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

True, would love to get an insight into how it really is at the club. Would be very interesting to see what happens at training and how the team are spoken to in the dressing room. It's partly why i've always liked sitting nearish the home dugout in the Williams (now Lansdown) - I enjoyed seeing how the management interacted with players on the pitch - was particularly good with Cotterill as you could hear every word and of course every single expletive!

I could tell you what it was like under Jordan / Lumsden / Smith era to some degree but hardly representative of the modern day set up 

[Engvall's Splinter]

I don't reckon Taylor will start. 

Did somebody suggest resting Tammy in such a game too? Crikey. 

Would certainly look to start Cotterill. 

Keep the flat back four. 

[BobBobSuperBob]

11 minutes ago, spudski said:

I think his point number 8 would probably be LJ's hardest thing to over come in the squad with some players. As it is with any manager in any walk of life, who is younger and has people under him who have achieved more or similar in age.

Totally Spud - His age and unfortunately even his stature (Its human nature - I hope I'm not upsetting anyone with this observation) puts him at a tough starting point - Must be easy to try and intentionally 'impose yourself' if you're not careful

 I also think his 'passion' probably gets the better of him at times too !!!

I'd definitely ban mobile phones from all players and those not in the squad who are watching on. Amount of times I've seen them looking at their phones instead of the game...not Professional imo.

Agree - One of Pep and Arsne Wengers big hates I believe -

I'd use young players enthusiasm for technology by 'involving them' in analysis , think a lot would enjoy using the technology and their footballing brains and football education should be accelerated without them necessarily realising 

 

[123456789000]

442 for me:

Giefer

Little
Flint
Wright
Golbourne

Cotts
Hegeler
Tomlin
COD

Tammy
Taylor

Rotherham are shit. Attack them from the off and put the game to bed early. Oh to dream...

[spudski]

1 minute ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

 

Totally agree with your points mate. Good ideas too.

[Phileas Fogg]

10 minutes ago, spudski said:

I'd definitely ban mobile phones from all players and those not in the squad who are watching on. Amount of times I've seen them looking at their phones instead of the game...not Professional imo.

Agree, was surprised at the amount of young players messing about on snapchat etc. They're there to learn and it's part of their job - suggest Jamie Mac confiscates all phones before the young players are watching the first team!

I like Guardiola's idea of removing phone signal in the home dressing room/training ground changing room.

10 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I could tell you what it was like under Jordan / Lumsden / Smith era to some degree but hardly representative of the modern day set up 

Sadly all of those managers are before my time of watching us! I heard bits and pieces about GJ - especially around the time of the Stewart bustup.. but nothing in recent years. 

[BobBobSuperBob]

Just now, Phileas Fogg said:

Agree, was surprised at the amount of young players messing about on snapchat etc. They're there to learn and it's part of their job - suggest Jamie Mac confiscates all phones before the young players are watching the first team!

I like Guardiola's idea of removing phone signal in the home dressing room/training ground changing room.

Sadly all of those managers are before my time of watching us! I heard bits and pieces about GJ - especially around the time of the Stewart bustup.. but nothing in recent years. 

Joe Jordan was an interesting one to watch - Hardly said a word , (And when he did speak ihe was impossible to understand) very quiet but eyes were everywhere - A very intelligent man and totally different from his on pitch persona !!!

He had that presence , Players just wouldn't cross him , or certainly wouldn't get caught - he didn't mess about with Robbie Turner when he crossed the line !

 

[BobBobSuperBob]

8 minutes ago, spudski said:

Totally agree with your points mate. Good ideas too.

Don't think it's done enough Spud

When I was schoolboy coaching , they had invites to games and we would set them little 'projects' 

If they were a centre half we would ask them to watch Our centre halfs and write a small piece on what they saw , maybe ask them to,focus on what the centre half did at set pieces

If they were a forward , watch SuperBob , count how many times does he get in the box , does he go near post Or far post etc

Nothing too heavy , to spoil their enjoyment , just something to direct their focus on what was relevant to them and take something out of it

[ciderbeans]

I would say that even though 3-5-2 isn't quite work ATM as it needs work, it is the formation that best suits our squad in relation to their best roles. The wing back positions are what are proving to be our weakness currently as they need protection when in advanced positions on the counter. That is where the two cm should step in. Maybe it is just a case of working out team cohesion for that formation.

as much as 4-4-1-1 may allow us to be more solid at the back, we still conceded two and it also means we have to drop one or two key players. So sacrificing a couple for the same outcome doesn't make sense.

if we stick with the 3-5-2, stick with a starting lineup, work on team cohesion and roles and game management, we can turn it around and make the formation successful whilst picking up points. Unfortunately it takes time of which we don't have, but I'm thinking put the hard work in now for next season so we can hit the ground running

[spudski]

8 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Agree, was surprised at the amount of young players messing about on snapchat etc. They're there to learn and it's part of their job - suggest Jamie Mac confiscates all phones before the young players are watching the first team!

I like Guardiola's idea of removing phone signal in the home dressing room/training ground changing room.

Sadly all of those managers are before my time of watching us! I heard bits and pieces about GJ - especially around the time of the Stewart bustup.. but nothing in recent years. 

I watched this video the other day, and it is probably the best 15 minutes of footage I've ever seen, that explains very eloquently the understanding needed for the 'millenials'.

It can be related to our footballers...with the management of them, and getting more out of them, as they have come from a generation where 'instant success' comes in all forms, without having to put the effort in.

If there was one video I could recommend everyone to watch, it would be this one. Seeing the faces in the audience go from laughter, to 'OMG this is us'...speaks volumes.

 

[WestonRobin]

For me, a lot depends on the fitness of some of the squad...Tomlin has been ill and put a shift in last night. Hope he is fit to start again but he may need to be an impact sub. 

I'd love to see Matthews back and playing as he did last year...if my memory is correct he is training again. With his ability and Cotts in front I think that could be an excellent pairing down the right.

A number of the fans have been calling for two up top and throwing to fit a Tomlin or Reid type player in too we'd need to go with either 3-5-2 or something like this below

 

Giefer

Matthews   Flint   Wright   Magnusson

Hegeler

Cotterill                      Bryan

Tomlin

Abraham          Djuric

 

Not sure if I'd favour going to 3-5-2 at the moment...it puts a lot more pressure on the areas where we are weakest (full backs) and I don't think we have the strength and depth to replace them from the bench. So, I'd rather see something like the formation above; the greater strain is on midfield and this is an area where we have numerous options...we could easily make numerous substitutions once the tiredness sets in and not weaken the team.

[spudski]

3 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Don't think it's done enough Spud

When I was schoolboy coaching , they had invites to games and we would set them little 'projects' 

If they were a centre half we would ask them to watch Our centre halfs and write a small piece on what they saw , maybe ask them to,focus on what the centre half did at set pieces

If they were a forward , watch SuperBob , count how many times does he get in the box , does he go near post Or far post etc

Nothing too heavy , to spoil their enjoyment , just something to direct their focus on what was relevant to them and take something out of it

I think they've got them doing similar now...or it seems that. way. Every time we lose the ball in midfield they swipe to the left, and every time we string three passes together, they swipe to the right....at least that's what I think they are doing ;-)

[spudski]

1 minute ago, WestonRobin said:

For me, a lot depends on the fitness of some of the squad...Tomlin has been ill and put a shift in last night. Hope he is fit to start again but he may need to be an impact sub. 

I'd love to see Matthews back and playing as he did last year...if my memory is correct he is training again. With his ability and Cotts in front I think that could be an excellent pairing down the right.

A number of the fans have been calling for two up top and throwing to fit a Tomlin or Reid type player in too we'd need to go with either 3-5-2 or something like this below

 

Giefer

Matthews   Flint   Wright   Magnusson

Hegeler

Cotterill                      Bryan

Tomlin

Abraham          Djuric

 

Not sure if I'd favour going to 3-5-2 at the moment...it puts a lot more pressure on the areas where we are weakest (full backs) and I don't think we have the strength and depth to replace them from the bench. So, I'd rather see something like the formation above; the greater strain is on midfield and this is an area where we have numerous options...we could easily make numerous substitutions once the tiredness sets in and not weaken the team.

I don't think Matthews is ready at all. But if he was and fit and playing to his full ability, then that would be my team as well.

[BobBobSuperBob]

As regards Saturday and for the foreseeable I think I'd be utilising 4-4-2 or 4-2-1-1

Id be inclined to play a flat back four, Hegler an AN Other centre of midfield , JB and DC left and right and either LT in behind Tammy or LT & Duric dependent on opposition and game situation

Id encourage my two full backs to get forward and ask Hegler to sit as a d/m and drop in alongside or between Our centre halves to form a three , when / if either or even both full backs get forward

As always the issue is accommodating LT who I think all would agree is likely to be vital,in our relegation fight

If I wanted to play two up,top , especially at home I'd play with a midfield four in a diamond with Hegler at the base and LT at the tip

(Edit - as  @WestonRobinhas above  although I'd tend to stick with what I know in Little and possibly SG at left back although I'd like to,see how Magnusson does there)

Away from home I'd be inclined to,persist with 4-4-1-1 with LT in behind Tammy and a midfield partner for Hegler with the option of going 4-4-2 if we need to , either with Tomlin in the diamond or replacing Tomlin if he's blowing

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

7 minutes ago, WestonRobin said:

 

Not sure if I'd favour going to 3-5-2 at the moment...it puts a lot more pressure on the areas where we are weakest (full backs) and I don't think we have the strength and depth to replace them from the bench. So, I'd rather see something like the formation above; the greater strain is on midfield and this is an area where we have numerous options...we could easily make numerous substitutions once the tiredness sets in and not weaken the team.

I do like the idea of making 'numerous substitutions' - if only that were possible.  There have been times when I've wanted to change all eleven!

[Monkeh]

2 hours ago, Tomarse said:

Personally hope we start with the same 11. We have to stop changing it around every week 

same 11 but start tomlin in the middle from the start, but if I was to make one change it would be to bring Maggers in at Left Back, I though goldborne looked out of his depth last night

[WestonRobin]

9 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

As regards Saturday and for the foreseeable I think I'd be utilising 4-4-2 or 4-2-1-1

Id be inclined to play a flat back four, Hegler an AN Other centre of midfield , JB and DC left and right and either LT in behind Tammy or LT & Duric dependent on opposition and game situation

Id encourage my two full backs to get forward and ask Hegler to sit as a d/m and drop in alongside or between Our centre halves to form a three , when / if either or even both full backs get forward

As always the issue is accommodating LT who I think all would agree is likely to be vital,in our relegation fight

If I wanted to play two up,top , especially at home I'd play with a midfield four in a diamond with Hegler at the base and LT at the tip

(Edit - as  @WestonRobinhas above  although I'd tend to stick with what I know in Little and possibly SG at left back although I'd like to,see how Magnusson does there)

Away from home I'd be inclined to,persist with 4-4-1-1 with LT in behind Tammy and a midfield partner for Hegler with the option of going 4-4-2 if we need to , either with Tomlin in the diamond or replacing Tomlin if he's blowing

Blimey Bob - where has this confidence come from? You think we'll do ok with 8 outfield players.

Thankfully, it's the team who are rock bottom...anyone else and it could be a really, really tricky afternoon!! 

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 minute ago, WestonRobin said:

Blimey Bob - where has this confidence come from? You think we'll do ok with 8 outfield players.

Thankfully, it's the team who are rock bottom...anyone else and it could be a really, really tricky afternoon!! 

I didn't finish it !!!

Its a new 4-2-1-1-1-1 'Spear' formation !!!!

[Alessandro]

Forest have used the most players in the championship, 34. Leeds the fewest 23.

On 29, we are somewhere in the middle-ish. 

Take into account 4 of those have been goal keepers (or is it 5?), Ekstrand was a gamble that didn't pay off, long term injury issues with Korey, GON and Matthews means people like Zac have added to that number too.

So I don't think you can argue with the tinkering in the numbers of players, but certainly the constant changes in formation and position are questionable. Tomlin out wide. Just no. Byran shifted around left right and everywhere (thought the game passed him by for long periods last night). Brownhill does a job on the left or right, but his best performances have been central. 

 

[BigTone]

2 minutes ago, We live in hope said:

 Players need time to gel and learn each other in A MATCH DAY ENVIROMENT

Exactly

[lager loud]

22 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

As regards Saturday and for the foreseeable I think I'd be utilising 4-4-2 or 4-2-1-1

Id be inclined to play a flat back four, Hegler an AN Other centre of midfield , JB and DC left and right and either LT in behind Tammy or LT & Duric dependent on opposition and game situation

Id encourage my two full backs to get forward and ask Hegler to sit as a d/m and drop in alongside or between Our centre halves to form a three , when / if either or even both full backs get forward

 

I'd certainly be looking at a formation like that: I thought we played some of our best stuff for a long time after Tomlin moved into the centre. There were midfield players finding space and making themselves available so that we could work the ball through the middle. For that reason I would want Hegeler free to break forward - not restricted to a holding role: we were at our most dangerous when he was doing that.

Tomlin to start for me as long as he carries on playing as he did in the centre last night. He will create plenty of chances for himself and Tammy.

[Engvall's Splinter]

Engvall's Splinter 

Fielding 

Little Flint Wright Golbourne

Cotterill Hegelar O'Neil Bryan

Tomlin

Abraham

 

Taylor

Djuric

Magnusson (if fit)

Pack

Reid

Giefer

 Paterson

 

Keep some consistency with the back four. 

Giefer looks more shaky than Fielding. Very dubious. 

Taylor off the bench. 

Cotterill straight in. 

Tomlin a run in the hole. 

 

 

•  

[robin_unreliant]

Regardless of what the best formation may be to suit our players, my suspicion is that LJ will base ours on whatever he thinks Rotherham will play.

If they have 3 in the middle of the park I expect he will change to match it up. Don't like that approach myself but can see it being in his mind.

[spudski]

Can I just go on record and say, that after all these excellent signings this month, with tremendous backing, and barring a glut of injuries again to key players, then if LJ can't turn this round, and we find ourselves floundering by the end of feb, then imo, he'd have to go. I want him and this team to now rise and progress...but after all this January backing, even I could turn this round ;-)

[Engvall's Splinter]

1 minute ago, robin_unreliant said:

Regardless of what the best formation may be to suit our players, my suspicion is that LJ will base ours on whatever he thinks Rotherham will play.

If they have 3 in the middle of the park I expect he will change to match it up. Don't like that approach myself but can see it being in his mind.

Probably right. Does this a lot going by his previous team selections, with little joy. 

Whilst you've got to understand your opponent, switching up your tactics to match up is not the one for me. 

[BigTone]

4 minutes ago, spudski said:

Can I just go on record and say, that after all these excellent signings this month, with tremendous backing, and barring a glut of injuries again to key players, then if LJ can't turn this round, and we find ourselves floundering by the end of feb, then imo, he'd have to go. I want him and this team to now rise and progress...but after all this January backing, even I could turn this round ;-)

LJ out !!

Spud in !!

[robin_unreliant]

5 minutes ago, spudski said:

Can I just go on record and say, that after all these excellent signings this month, with tremendous backing, and barring a glut of injuries again to key players, then if LJ can't turn this round, and we find ourselves floundering by the end of feb, then imo, he'd have to go. I want him and this team to now rise and progress...but after all this January backing, even I could turn this round ;-)

I reckon a small panel of long-time fans picking the team from our squad would massively out-perform Johnson. After all - do you believe anyone, any single one, of us would have started LT on the right wing last night? I really don't understand how any coach with half a brain would do that. I hope we win Sat but that will no doubt mean LJ staying on. I have given up on him now but hopefully even he can't hamstring these players badly enough that we go down.

[BobBobSuperBob]

20 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

Regardless of what the best formation may be to suit our players, my suspicion is that LJ will base ours on whatever he thinks Rotherham will play.

If they have 3 in the middle of the park I expect he will change to match it up. Don't like that approach myself but can see it being in his mind.

Rotherham have a big ole centre half (Roberts ?) so,I'd be tempted to play Duric alongside Tammy otherwise I can see Tammy getting a battering - so I'd go 4-4-2 diamond with LT at tip Hegler base , DC & JB right / left

COYR

[BigTone]

25 minutes ago, Engvall's Splinter said:

Probably right. Does this a lot going by his previous team selections, with little joy. 

Whilst you've got to understand your opponent, switching up your tactics to match up is not the one for me. 

I'm having a radical thought here.  Why not set ourselves up to win the game and let the opposition change their tactics to counter us.

[Son of Fred]

3 hours ago, spudski said:

So....we've got some exciting new signings in and a draw under our belt to stop the rot. The Relegation battle starts... Our aim has to be to finish mid table and instil confidence for next season.

So many options now. However I still worry about our fullbacks...Little needs help every game...and like yesterday our tracking back, covering at LB costs us goals nearly every game.

Thinking ahead to Rotherham....3 solid defenders, good cover and ability to cross from wide midfield. Decent cover CM and ability to pass.  Creativity in CM. Goals up front. On paper....

------------------------------------------------------------------------------Geifer-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------Wright-----------------------------------------------Flint-------------------------------------Magners-------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------Brownhill/GoN---------------------------------------Hegeler-------------------------------------------------------------

Cotterhill------------------------------------------------------------------Tomlin-----------------------------------------------------------------------------Bryan

---------------------------------------Tammy------------------------------------------------------------Duric/Taylor-----------------------------------------------

 

Very attacking...Could be 6-4!...

[Engvall's Splinter]

7 minutes ago, BigTone said:

I'm having a radical thought here.  Why not set ourselves up to win the game and let the opposition change their tactics to counter us.

That's outrageous! 

[dereks no1]

4 at the back is a must

[Nogbad the Bad]

1 hour ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

 

Your 'conversation' got me thinking and I do wonder whether one of Lees major issues/problems may be that he over complicates and over analyses , constantly tinkering with our formation and personnel because of the opposition.

 

I'm convinced of it.

His outlook and actions have created numerous unnecessary extra problems for himself, and the team, and if he eventually goes he will have been very much the architect of his own downfall.

[RumRed]

16 minutes ago, BigTone said:

I'm having a radical thought here.  Why not set ourselves up to win the game and let the opposition change their tactics to counter us.

Witch!   Grab the pitchforks and ducking stool.

[Alessandro]

Continuity is the key. Same back 4.

O'Dowda or Bryan on the left debatable. 

For me Brownhill and Hegeler could create a good central midfield partnership.

Cotterill if fit and match ready should come in on the right. 

[downendcity]

Options for Saturday?

My worry is that LJ now has too many options.