Why? What gives us the right?

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 minute ago, Emperor Palpatine said:

Forgetting about Burton, what about the rest of the clubs in this league? As they are probably are more accustomed to this league and above in stature, finances (for a few) and so on

Remember to include Barnsley , Preston (Third lowest wage budget in league) 

Oh and Huddersfield who have knocked 2 million off their wage bill in recent years 

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Tipps, how many more times on this thread are people going to have to make the distinction between what we "deserve" and what we "expect" before the penny drops for you?

Feel free to show me these endless threads where people talk about what we "deserve". You won't find them. What you will find are people saying we should be doing better than we are - a very different statement to the one you are claiming is being made.

So it appears that a comment made by Tipps has been seized on -  he used the word 'deserve', you naughty boy Tipps. I'm surprised that he hasn't been called up on his grammar, however, maybe the new tactic for people who have little to offer is now 'semantics' policing? He used the word 'deserve', get over it. The semantic police 'might' be right that no one has explicitly used the word 'deserve'?

However...
www.otib.co.uk/index.php?/topic/181693-flint-and-fielding - southvillekiddy comment 'I think we deserve more than being League 1 giants.' (last edit was Jan 2nd 2017).

'You won't find them' - yes indeed.

Yeah but, no but...

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

6 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Remember to include Barnsley , Preston (Third lowest wage budget in league) 

Oh and Huddersfield who have knocked 2 million off their wage bill in recent years 

So with those 3 clubs even, we should be in a relegation scrap regardless.. Burton and Rotherham included we are in the bottom 6 when it boils down to it.

[pillred]

2 hours ago, 'keepuplino' said:

You know what really ***** me off is people on here saying it's not LJ fault it's the player's.. 

 That would be a bit like me sending a load of labourers to do a skilled job they simply couldn't do and then the labourers getting the blame!!

LJ signed the players To do a job, if they haven't got the right credentials to stand up and fight when the chips are down then it's obvious that he has failed.., take some ******* responsibility for god sake!!!

well said I sometimes think if LJ lost a 100 games in a row there would still be posters, who shall remain nameless on here, saying its no good changing the manager and we have no god given right to win games

[Guest]

 

30 minutes ago, CotswoldRed said:

He's not being paid to manage. Somebody else is and is doing a crap job. Nobody else needs to justify their own managerial credentials. 

Thankfully.

On the crap scale: recent form, yes. Previous form to that, no.

From an argument point, I agree. From a OTIB thread point of view, I thought you didn't need to be able to argue, just toss in a banal point of view.

[Jack Dawe]

3 minutes ago, Emperor Palpatine said:

Forgetting about Burton, what about the rest of the clubs in this league? As they are probably are more accustomed to this league and above in stature, finances (for a few) and so on

What about them? Are Forest any good these days? Ipswich? QPR?? Really? QPR - they've just signed Luke "Fluff" Freeman, our Championship dud. Birmingham? Do you follow the behind-the-scenes circus at that club? What are these four "accustomed" to? Are Reading any great shakes? They were sh1te last season. Brentford. Cardiff (what have they got over us, other than a very experienced and successful coach at this level?) Are this lot so far beyond the standards we can ever hope to achieve? I don't think so. Preston - how can we possibly live with Preston? Barnsley, the club that finished 6th in L1 last year. Do we need to cower in a corner faced with this lot? 

And Huddersfield - who we did the double over last season, and finished above. How can we ever hope to compete with a club like that? A club that can only match our support by selling £179 season tickets.

What about them?

 

 

 

 

 

[Lydered]

On 16/02/2017 at 21:15, 'keepuplino' said:

You know what really ***** me off is people on here saying it's not LJ fault it's the player's.. 

 That would be a bit like me sending a load of labourers to do a skilled job they simply couldn't do and then the labourers getting the blame!!

LJ signed the players To do a job, if they haven't got the right credentials to stand up and fight when the chips are down then it's obvious that he has failed.., take some ******* responsibility for god sake!!!

 

[Rocking Red Cyril]

2 hours ago, RumRed said:

There is no one who thinks we 'deserve' to be higher, give it a rest mate, or at least buy a dictionary.

What's wrong with spell check ?

[Rocking Red Cyril]

11 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

What about them? Are Forest any good these days? Ipswich? QPR?? Really? QPR - they've just signed Luke "Fluff" Freeman, our Championship dud. Birmingham? Do you follow the behind-the-scenes circus at that club? What are these four "accustomed" to? Are Reading any great shakes? They were sh1te last season. Brentford. Cardiff (what have they got over us, other than a very experienced and successful coach at this level?) Are this lot so far beyond the standards we can ever hope to achieve? I don't think so. Preston - how can we possibly live with Preston? Barnsley, the club that finished 6th in L1 last year. Do we need to cower in a corner faced with this lot? 

And Huddersfield - who we did the double over last season, and finished above. How can we ever hope to compete with a club like that? A club that can only match our support by selling £179 season tickets.

What about them?

 

 

 

 

 

Why can't we have £179 season tickets too ? Seems unfair to me

[joe jordans teeth]

2 hours ago, Bob Thompson said:

With six new players the usual amount of injuries how long does it take to get a team playing and winning?Man U and C. Liverpool Arsonal aren't exactly doing it and Chelsea have only just done it after a slump.These teams have some of the best players and coaches in the World. Big changes takes time and LJ should be given it.

Conte has took one season,Jose is in his first and getting it right. Wenger is more bulletproof than lee and should be gone for winning next to nowt for 15 year apart from the fa cup. As for Liverpool and Man City their managers have a past of winning things,we maybe should keep Johnson on to keep usabove the league 1 relegation spots because he's good at that

[RumRed]

25 minutes ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

What's wrong with spell check ?

His spelling was perfect, understanding of the words he wrote less so.

[Tipps69]

1 minute ago, RumRed said:

His spelling was perfect, understanding of the words he wrote less so.

What was that about an adult discussion?

[RumRed]

2 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

What was that about an adult discussion?

It wasn't though, your post was incendiary in its use of language, and the definition of childish. Bored of arguing a sensible point, as are many on here. 

You're clearly on a wind up so goodnight.

[Tipps69]

3 minutes ago, RumRed said:

It wasn't though, your post was incendiary in its use of language, and the definition of childish. Bored of arguing a sensible point, as are many on here. 

You're clearly on a wind up so goodnight.

Not on a wind up at all, just because my view differs from yours & yours from mine doesn't make either of us right or wrong, it doesn't mean that it can't be discussed like adults either, no matter how much you try to belittle somebody!!

[Davefevs]

Tipps - I think I'm a pretty balanced poster on here.

I want LJ gone, not because we have a divine right to win games, but because he isn't doing a very good job.  I'll caveat that, by saying he isnt doing a good job over the last few months.

I expect the manager on a run like this to come out all guns blazing, saying things like, this is my best side, this is the way I'm gonna okay them, eff the lot of you, I'll show you, etc.  He'd have backed the players he picked, not stabbed some of them in the back openly or not...and they'd want to play for him.

What side would you, a qualified FA coach, have picked on Tuesday v Leeds?

I was shocked to hear Tomlin named, irrespective of Taylor's injury doubt. Were you?  He's making bad decisions both in his starting selections and intra-game.

I'm not saying we should have got something at Leeds, but he picked a side that allowed them time on the ball.

Given everyone is pretty much fit, what eleven would you select if your career depended on it?  I don't think Lee is making his selections with enough thought about his career.

None of that entitles us to win games, but I think you're choosing the wrong point to argue.  You pull together a squad and with it go expectations, not game by game results, but an overall expectation.  Lee is massively behind those expectations that he helped to set.  What grade would he be honestly giving himself if C was a pass. D-minus?

[Tipps69]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Tipps - I think I'm a pretty balanced poster on here.

I want LJ gone, not because we have a divine right to win games, but because he isn't doing a very good job.  I'll caveat that, by saying he isnt doing a good job over the last few months.

I expect the manager on a run like this to come out all guns blazing, saying things like, this is my best side, this is the way I'm gonna okay them, eff the lot of you, I'll show you, etc.  He'd have backed the players he picked, not stabbed some of them in the back openly or not...and they'd want to play for him.

What side would you, a qualified FA coach, have picked on Tuesday v Leeds?

I was shocked to hear Tomlin named, irrespective of Taylor's injury doubt. Were you?  He's making bad decisions both in his starting selections and intra-game.

I'm not saying we should have got something at Leeds, but he picked a side that allowed them time on the ball.

Given everyone is pretty much fit, what eleven would you select if your career depended on it?  I don't think Lee is making his selections with enough thought about his career.

None of that entitles us to win games, but I think you're choosing the wrong point to argue.  You pull together a squad and with it go expectations, not game by game results, but an overall expectation.  Lee is massively behind those expectations that he helped to set.  What grade would he be honestly giving himself if C was a pass. D-minus?

But not knowing what has gone on in training or what discussions have taken place between LJ & any of the players it's not as simple as pick a,b or c.

LJ could of had a discussion, meeting, heart to heart with LT and told him that his form hasn't been good enough & he needs to pull his finger out, LT could of agreed with LJ's views & put the effort in during training (knowing that there maybe a space available in the starting 11 due to MT's slight hamstring issue (how true was that))?

What were the chances of us ever going to Leeds & playing two up top? (Very slim I'd say)

An on form a motivated LT is on his day, our best player (not happened enough this season).

So playing LT, while a striker is supposedly struggling, isn't beyond the realms of unrealistic, especially if LJ has already got it in his head that we'd be happy with a point & we're unlikely to come away with a win on recent form.

The rest of the team pretty much picks itself, although I do agree that the Magnusson situation is a little puzzling & seems like he has been told that he'll have month with no matches (to recharge his batteries) as he's not even been involved in the U23's so if he was just dropped because of poor form he'd still be in the U23's to play him through the poor form.

Matthews has obviously been a big disappointment with his injuries, lack of fitness & poor form when he has been fit enough, so Little probably has to play seeing as he's the only fit natural right-back.

I'm also at a disadvantage on the basis that I'm no longer able to attend games, so have to give my opinion via 2nd hand sources.

But from the squad we have, I'd be more inclined to believe that far to many of the squad haven't performed to their full ability, now could this be the reason for all of the tinkering or is all of the tinkering the reason why so many have seemingly underperformed? Again, that's difficult for me to say without seeing the games.

You say about what team would LJ pick if his career depended on it, I guess that depends on whether his career does depend on it, what has SL told him he needs to achieve? Pick a team to try & avoid defeat because a points better than nothing, especially at Leeds? Has he been told he's safe no matter what as long as we avoid relegation? It would be sensible to think that if his job is on the line that he would of gone all out for the win but that certainly doesn't seem like the case, does it?

As has been mentioned by various posters before, it doesn't look like LJ is going anywhere, anytime soon & I just think all the negativity is unhealthy for everyone connected with the club, it certainly can't be helping any of the players, having to play with all the added pressure.

[cityloyal473]

6 hours ago, Tipps69 said:

On many occasions while this chase to get LJ out of his job has been going, I have given my reasons why I don't think he should be sacked.

It's not so much of the fact that I'm a LJ supporter, more the fact that I don't want to see my club become one of those clubs that sack their manager / head coach every year when we inevitably hit a patch of bad form.

How many times has a thread been started on here after another clubs manager has been relieved of his position & the response has been that it was to soon or the club is ran by an idiot for constantly changing the guy in charge of team affairs.

LJ was given the job on the basis that it was a long term project & from the off he asked to be judged after 3 transfer windows, so a year & a half. Instead he has been given 2 windows & literally a year & we are now looking like one of those nut job clubs who get rid of head coach too soon (in my view).

Those who say he's spent so much money, granted, for us it's a lot of money but in the grand scheme of things, against the rest of the clubs in this division, we have spent a fraction compared to them over the last 5 years & the majority of clubs have been in this division or The Premier League & have reaped the financial rewards. We have been here a year & a half & only this year have we benefited from the financial rewards because last season we were performing with the benefit of only half a stadium!!

You also have to remember the size of the clubs reputation in the game, we don't have the added reputation of being in The Premier League or consistently being in The Championship, so we are still seen as a small-ish club in the grand scheme of things.

We have no more right to win games than any other club in this division & to some extent we probably have even less right to win games.

So, my question to all of you that want us to open the revolving door again & bring someone else in who is going to be odds-on to be out of a job in less than a year, why do you think we have a god given right to win football matches in a division we aren't exactly accustomed too? Try & convince me why I should back your petition & your wish for us to replace another manager / head coach.

This is just copy and paste of tens of other threads on here.

No one believes we have a god given right to anything; this is an argument snowflakes regularly whip out when they don't agree with others.  

BUT, I do believe we should be competing - not pushing for the play offs, not in the top two - just competing; we aren't. I believe that after getting a 3-0 lead and blowing it and getting a point isn't a 'sign of improvement' as some on here indicated.   I believe after a year in charge a manager should at least have a settled formation in mind; he doesn't.   I believe that a team shouldn't regularly crumble after taking the lead; we do.  I believe that a head coach should improve players - thats his job no? Which players have improved under his managership?  Name one.  I believe that if he manages to keep us up it will be more of the same next season. The fabled 'three windows'...'three windows' were his words...what experience does he have that makes anyone think all will click into place after his 'three windows'?  We've had two and we've regressed.  I daren't to think where will be by the third.  I believe that the current manager is not good enough - nothing to do with any sense of entitlement or any delusion of grandeur; simple facts bear that out.  I believe we are postponing the inevitable; the sacking of a manager so far out of his depth its almost comical.  Johnson out.  And the quicker the better. 

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Tipps - I think I'm a pretty balanced poster on here.

I want LJ gone, not because we have a divine right to win games, but because he isn't doing a very good job.  I'll caveat that, by saying he isnt doing a good job over the last few months.

I expect the manager on a run like this to come out all guns blazing, saying things like, this is my best side, this is the way I'm gonna okay them, eff the lot of you, I'll show you, etc.  He'd have backed the players he picked, not stabbed some of them in the back openly or not...and they'd want to play for him.

What side would you, a qualified FA coach, have picked on Tuesday v Leeds?

I was shocked to hear Tomlin named, irrespective of Taylor's injury doubt. Were you?  He's making bad decisions both in his starting selections and intra-game.

I'm not saying we should have got something at Leeds, but he picked a side that allowed them time on the ball.

Given everyone is pretty much fit, what eleven would you select if your career depended on it?  I don't think Lee is making his selections with enough thought about his career.

None of that entitles us to win games, but I think you're choosing the wrong point to argue.  You pull together a squad and with it go expectations, not game by game results, but an overall expectation.  Lee is massively behind those expectations that he helped to set.  What grade would he be honestly giving himself if C was a pass. D-minus?

When I asked someone to dazzle me with their management skills, I was told

2 hours ago, CotswoldRed said:

He's not being paid to manage. Somebody else is and is doing a crap job. Nobody else needs to justify their own managerial credentials. 

You'll have to excuse my pessimism of anyone who starts with 'I think I'm a pretty balanced poster' and then follows it with 'I want LJ gone'. It doesn't sit right.

Am I pissed off about City's current form? Damn right I am.

Can LJ do better? Damn right he can

Is LJ the solely blame? Absolutely not, the manager AND the players are a team. How the blame is split, hard to say but probably mostly on LJ.

Should LJ's be feeling safe? Nope, he needs to be feeling uncomfortable and hauled over the coals by the people who matter - firstly by SL and then the fans.

Do I think that he should have been given a contract extension? At the time, looked like a sound decision but with 20 20 hindsight, it has to be no.

Do I think sacking him will help? No
My view as to why?
This is short-termism, a brief respite, which our recent history seems to demonstrate doesn't work in the long-term.
As much as some of the most ardent 'sack him' supporters don't like to hear this: we are losing by small margins - something needs tweaking; the football isn't that bad (although we are losing games); the players are probably some of the best we've had in a long time (albeit the defence needs shoring up confidence wise); we aren't in the relegation zone; our PD is relatively good compared to those around us; the teams around us are shocking (Rotherham are down), something that is ignored out of convenience (argument wise) etc.

If anyone wants to argue these points, feel free. If anyone wants to call me a cretin, feel free (I tend to give as much as I get). If you believe that LJ should be sacked, feel free. TBH, I really don't give a toss about what others think (goes for either side of the divide), I know my own mind.

I believe LJ will not take us down for these reasons. IF (the big if), LJ keeps his job this season, I suspect that he'll have a grace period at the beginning of next season to produce the goods (after all, he's nailed his colours to the mast and said '3 transfer windows').

Onwards and upwards

[Redandy]

11 hours ago, Tipps69 said:

On many occasions while this chase to get LJ out of his job has been going, I have given my reasons why I don't think he should be sacked.

It's not so much of the fact that I'm a LJ supporter, more the fact that I don't want to see my club become one of those clubs that sack their manager / head coach every year when we inevitably hit a patch of bad form.

How many times has a thread been started on here after another clubs manager has been relieved of his position & the response has been that it was to soon or the club is ran by an idiot for constantly changing the guy in charge of team affairs.

LJ was given the job on the basis that it was a long term project & from the off he asked to be judged after 3 transfer windows, so a year & a half. Instead he has been given 2 windows & literally a year & we are now looking like one of those nut job clubs who get rid of head coach too soon (in my view).

Those who say he's spent so much money, granted, for us it's a lot of money but in the grand scheme of things, against the rest of the clubs in this division, we have spent a fraction compared to them over the last 5 years & the majority of clubs have been in this division or The Premier League & have reaped the financial rewards. We have been here a year & a half & only this year have we benefited from the financial rewards because last season we were performing with the benefit of only half a stadium!!

You also have to remember the size of the clubs reputation in the game, we don't have the added reputation of being in The Premier League or consistently being in The Championship, so we are still seen as a small-ish club in the grand scheme of things.

We have no more right to win games than any other club in this division & to some extent we probably have even less right to win games.

So, my question to all of you that want us to open the revolving door again & bring someone else in who is going to be odds-on to be out of a job in less than a year, why do you think we have a god given right to win football matches in a division we aren't exactly accustomed too? Try & convince me why I should back your petition & your wish for us to replace another manager / head coach.

A patch of bad form is that what you call setting the worst run of defeats in the clubs history. Remarkable. Constant changes to the team and tactics even when we have done well. The discarding of players who he has sung the praises off like Bobby Reid and Hordor. Signing players which he has never given a chance to like Engvall. The utter failure to address  issues that have haunted  us and  all season, like holding a lead or the ability to defend. The RESULTS. The erosion week by week of all the great work done to get in to this division. The spirit  and fight leaving the team. 

Good managers work out their best team and formation and bring stability and consistency. Have you seen any sign of that under Johnson.

Your defence to these issues appears to be we don't want to be a club constantly sacking their manager and you would therefore keep someone clearly out of his depth in the role. I think that is insanity. 

 

[ChippenhamRed]

8 hours ago, bcfcfinker said:

So it appears that a comment made by Tipps has been seized on -  he used the word 'deserve', you naughty boy Tipps. I'm surprised that he hasn't been called up on his grammar, however, maybe the new tactic for people who have little to offer is now 'semantics' policing? He used the word 'deserve', get over it. The semantic police 'might' be right that no one has explicitly used the word 'deserve'?

However...
www.otib.co.uk/index.php?/topic/181693-flint-and-fielding - southvillekiddy comment 'I think we deserve more than being League 1 giants.' (last edit was Jan 2nd 2017).

'You won't find them' - yes indeed.

Yeah but, no but...

One thread from 6 weeks ago. Well done. Not exactly the "endless" number Tipps is claiming.

Tipps did not use the word "deserve" once, he has used it countless times throughout this thread to put forward his argument that many of us think we have a divine right to be higher in the league. It's simply not the case. There is an important distinction to be made between what we deserve and what we expect, which Tipps continues to refuse to acknowledge.

It is not simply misuse of a word, it is critical to the argument.

[kingswood red]

10 hours ago, Tipps69 said:

You can assume that, having broke my back, fractured my sternum & damaged nerves in my shoulder, it means that I'm no longer able to attend games, why? Does that make you a better supporter than me?

But as an FA qualified coach & a supporter for 40 years, I believe I have an understanding of how football works!!

I am very sorry to hear of your health issues and I wish you a speedy recovery.

I am definately not a better supporter than you or any one else but, i ask you, how can you possibly make any real assesments of something you haven't seen. All your assessments are based on hearsay and you should make that plain when you reply to supporters who actually go and sit through games, home and away. They are far better qualified to comment on games and how the club 'works' at present. You remind me of a poster on here years  ago called Cheese, he knew everything about everything, he didn't attend games either. I wonder if that is how we assess our opponents, we don't watch them, we use social media and hearsay. I must say it seems like it. At the end of the day i'm sure we all want our club to flourish but, as is the way of the world , we all have views based on our experiences.

[spudski]

11 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

One thread from 6 weeks ago. Well done. Not exactly the "endless" number Tipps is claiming.

Tipps did not use the word "deserve" once, he has used it countless times throughout this thread to put forward his argument that many of us think we have a divine right to be higher in the league. It's simply not the case. There is an important distinction to be made between what we deserve and what we expect, which Tipps continues to refuse to acknowledge.

It is not simply misuse of a word, it is critical to the argument.

Perhaps, because of all the very valid reason Tipps has given, certain fans EXPECTATIONS should be lower?

I should imagine there are fans at all the Clubs in the bottom 12 of the table 'expecting' more from their Clubs too.

Whilst I expect us to be approx. lower mid in the table come the end of the season, it wouldn't surprise me if we are still in the same position.

Because there are 23 other teams trying to stop us, and anyone, can beat anyone on the day, such is the nature of the league.

No one expected us to have the miserable run we did...but did it surprise me...No.

I didn't expect the great start we had to the season...did it surprise me...Yes.

At this time of the season...am I surprised to be within 4 points of Villa, QPR, Wolves and Forest...Yes.

Am I surprised Huddersfield have double our points and lying third...most certainly Yes.

Tough, strange league where anything can happen.

Expectations based on all the evidence Tipps has given should be way lower imo...

[Davefevs]

4 hours ago, bcfcfinker said:

When I asked someone to dazzle me with their management skills, I was told

You'll have to excuse my pessimism of anyone who starts with 'I think I'm a pretty balanced poster' and then follows it with 'I want LJ gone'. It doesn't sit right.

Am I pissed off about City's current form? Damn right I am.

Can LJ do better? Damn right he can

Is LJ the solely blame? Absolutely not, the manager AND the players are a team. How the blame is split, hard to say but probably mostly on LJ.

Should LJ's be feeling safe? Nope, he needs to be feeling uncomfortable and hauled over the coals by the people who matter - firstly by SL and then the fans.

Do I think that he should have been given a contract extension? At the time, looked like a sound decision but with 20 20 hindsight, it has to be no.

Do I think sacking him will help? No
My view as to why?
This is short-termism, a brief respite, which our recent history seems to demonstrate doesn't work in the long-term.
As much as some of the most ardent 'sack him' supporters don't like to hear this: we are losing by small margins - something needs tweaking; the football isn't that bad (although we are losing games); the players are probably some of the best we've had in a long time (albeit the defence needs shoring up confidence wise); we aren't in the relegation zone; our PD is relatively good compared to those around us; the teams around us are shocking (Rotherham are down), something that is ignored out of convenience (argument wise) etc.

If anyone wants to argue these points, feel free. If anyone wants to call me a cretin, feel free (I tend to give as much as I get). If you believe that LJ should be sacked, feel free. TBH, I really don't give a toss about what others think (goes for either side of the divide), I know my own mind.

I believe LJ will not take us down for these reasons. IF (the big if), LJ keeps his job this season, I suspect that he'll have a grace period at the beginning of next season to produce the goods (after all, he's nailed his colours to the mast and said '3 transfer windows').

Onwards and upwards

All fair enough and your view.  Not a cretin, just someone with a different view.

I agree it's not all LJ's fault, but this is a profession where the buck stops with the manager...and it's a results business.  As big a Cotts fan as I was, he'd pettily backed himself into a corner and had to go.  You can be balanced and think someone isn't right for the job, that's my stance.  Change isn't always the wrong thing, just as keeping LJ doesn't ensure stability, it can allow stagnation, regression.  

The Short-termism hasn't worked, but is that because we picked the wrong head-coach?  Would keeping SOD have worked?

The strategy is absolutely fine, apart from one thing, it assumes that if you follow the strategy that it correlates to improving on the pitch (results, positions).  This is the biggest risk to the strategy, and the last two managers who've adhered to the strategy (SOD & LJ) have been found wanting in the results part.  I won't dismiss that LJ did well when he came in initially, and that has bought him some time.  I was impressed.  But I'm also allowed to reflect and start to re-evaluate and see him differently.

Who knows, Fulham on Wednesday might be the turning point.  Perhaps as Tipps suggests all that unseen work between match days clicks and we see the identity of an LJ team that starts to get results and performances with it.  No-one will be more happy to see that.  I will congratulate him on working it through.  I've never slagged him off, I don't think I've ever said "he hadn't got a clue", I just think he is underperforming for the expectations HE set, it is not divine right, it is what he and SL told us our trajectory was aiming for.

This season for me was about further stability, position wise, building the foundations of a squad.  But as @Redandy says above, he's extolled the virtues of players and then tossed them aside.  We are in a relegation battle.  I think we've got enough to stay up, I hope.  

Finally, 1) what if he does take us down? And 2) what if we stay up but he gets off to a shocker next season?

[spudski]

3 minutes ago, kingswood red said:

I am very sorry to hear of your health issues and I wish you a speedy recovery.

I am definately not a better supporter than you or any one else but, i ask you, how can you possibly make any real assesments of something you haven't seen. All your assessments are based on hearsay and you should make that plain when you reply to supporters who actually go and sit through games, home and away. They are far better qualified to comment on games and how the club 'works' at present. You remind me of a poster on here years  ago called Cheese, he knew everything about everything, he didn't attend games either. I wonder if that is how we assess our opponents, we don't watch them, we use social media and hearsay. I must say it seems like it. At the end of the day i'm sure we all want our club to flourish but, as is the way of the world , we all have views based on our experiences.

I'd say Tipps has a far better understanding of the Club and it's running, and how the Championship works, than many who post on here who attend games. We have some very level headed posters like @Olé who see the games with an open mind and a certain understanding of the game. And they report almost in a neutral way...saying it like it is. You read other posts from people who have been at the game, who describe it completely differently. It's like they weren't actually at the game. So it's horses for courses...some get it...some just don't.

Tipps you can obviously see from his posts, is level headed, has no agenda, and see's it for what it is.

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, spudski said:

Perhaps, because of all the very valid reason Tipps has given, certain fans EXPECTATIONS should be lower?

I should imagine there are fans at all the Clubs in the bottom 12 of the table 'expecting' more from their Clubs too.

Whilst I expect us to be approx. lower mid in the table come the end of the season, it wouldn't surprise me if we are still in the same position.

Because there are 23 other teams trying to stop us, and anyone, can beat anyone on the day, such is the nature of the league.

No one expected us to have the miserable run we did...but did it surprise me...No.

I didn't expect the great start we had to the season...did it surprise me...Yes.

At this time of the season...am I surprised to be within 4 points of Villa, QPR, Wolves and Forest...Yes.

Am I surprised Huddersfield have double our points and lying third...most certainly Yes.

Tough, strange league where anything can happen.

Expectations based on all the evidence Tipps has given should be way lower imo...

Spud.  I thought we'd be mid table, I'm talking 10-16th...that sort of area.  And we still might.  It just doesn't look like it at the moment.  We are playing with fragile confidence and we aren't in the relegation spots.  There is a chance (quick glance at fixtures) that we could be by Wednesday. I hope we aren't.

I don't think my exoectations were too high.  I;m sure a lot took SL's comments of pushing play-offs or whatever he said too far.

Do I think we have a divine right....nope.  

I think the two are un-connected.

[Davefevs]

8 minutes ago, spudski said:

.

Tipps you can obviously see from his posts, is level headed, has no agenda, and see's it for what it is.

 I Have no agenda either

[Portland Bill]

12 hours ago, Tipps69 said:

And from recent reports we have been playing attractive football, one quote I remember from the Derby game was it was the best football we had played for 15 years!! Regardless of us conceding 3 goals, it was still the best we had played for years & others have praised the performance at Leeds as well.

Lots of people were saying how great it was at Derby, and it was exceptional for any away team to score 3 times at Pride park.

Three days later Cardiff score 4 and win on the same ground!!

 

[Der no.2]

10 hours ago, bcfcfinker said:

Then dazzle me with your thoughts on management?

I'll understand if you can't.

Its a big subject, on which particular aspect were you thinking of?

[spudski]

20 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Spud.  I thought we'd be mid table, I'm talking 10-16th...that sort of area.  And we still might.  It just doesn't look like it at the moment.  We are playing with fragile confidence and we aren't in the relegation spots.  There is a chance (quick glance at fixtures) that we could be by Wednesday. I hope we aren't.

I don't think my exoectations were too high.  I;m sure a lot took SL's comments of pushing play-offs or whatever he said too far.

Do I think we have a divine right....nope.  

I think the two are un-connected.

Like you say fella...we still might end up there. Who know's...going by the last four games and with new signings on board...5 points from 12...not sure where that would put us. And I agree with you, that was my 'expectations' too.

As for SL's comments...pinch of salt mate. He's hardly going to come out and say 'welcome to the new AG, we'll be aiming for lower mid table'. More fool anyone that believes the corporate hype.

You just have to look at the whole scenario, like Tipps has logically and thoughtfully done. He talks a lot of sense imo.

17 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 I Have no agenda either

I know you don't mate...another level headed poster. Some however are not. ;-)

[Davefevs]

I've been having a good chat with Tipps via PM the mast couple of days.  It's quite easy to have a debate without resorting to insults and offending.