A rare serious thread from me - advice please

[Dollymarie]

So as non footy has been so helpful and genuine in the past when people have needed advice, I thought I'd have a go myself.

For those of you that don't know, my "dad" (I use that term in the loosest sense) is an abusive alcoholic, he has been since my teens. As a result of this my mum has finally divorced him, and they have now led separate lives for a few years. 

I have a brilliant relationship with the rest of my family, and after over a years worth of counselling a few years back, I have come to terms with the lifestyle and decisions my dad has made, and I'm ok with it. He doesn't see he has a problem, has done nothing to address his drinking, and as a result of all this I have very little to do with him.

My sort of dilemma is this, I haven't now seen my dad for I don't know how long (a few months at least despite him living locally) and haven't spoken to him for 2 months via text message either. I'm honestly happy having as little to do with him as possible (I used to have to when he lived with mum) but it's Father's Day in less than 2 weeks. I dread it every year because I refuse to buy him one of those nice cards about how great he is - because he's not. I usually end up spending ages in the card section before picking the most bland card I can, and sending him that, along with a Boots voucher. (can't buy anything alcohol related in Boots) This year, I'm thinking about not even bothering with anything. He has no proper place in my life, if he died tomorrow I honestly wouldn't care, and I don't see why I should go along with the "happy Father's Day" bullshit, when he's no sort of father at all. 

I'd like people's opinions on this, I'm happy to expand on anything I've said if that would help, but would others agree, given the information above, that not sending him anything for Fathers Day would be ok? 

[Welcome To The Jungle]

You never know what the future holds. Your father could, however unlikely, change his ways, or at least want to change his ways. It sounds like the bridge is between you is being maintained by just you, and should he want to change he may really need that bridge. 

I cannot claim to understand but I have a family member who didn't talk to his parents for decades, but now have a really strong relationship. Perhaps instead of a card, just write him a letter. Explain exactly what you've put on here and be up front and honest. I don't know your father but it may be best to be tactful with that honesty or as direct as you like. 

Best of luck whatever you decide to do.  

[glynriley]

12 minutes ago, Dollymarie said:

So as non footy has been so helpful and genuine in the past when people have needed advice, I thought I'd have a go myself.

For those of you that don't know, my "dad" (I use that term in the loosest sense) is an abusive alcoholic, he has been since my teens. As a result of this my mum has finally divorced him, and they have now led separate lives for a few years. 

I have a brilliant relationship with the rest of my family, and after over a years worth of counselling a few years back, I have come to terms with the lifestyle and decisions my dad has made, and I'm ok with it. He doesn't see he has a problem, has done nothing to address his drinking, and as a result of all this I have very little to do with him.

My sort of dilemma is this, I haven't now seen my dad for I don't know how long (a few months at least despite him living locally) and haven't spoken to him for 2 months via text message either. I'm honestly happy having as little to do with him as possible (I used to have to when he lived with mum) but it's Father's Day in less than 2 weeks. I dread it every year because I refuse to buy him one of those nice cards about how great he is - because he's not. I usually end up spending ages in the card section before picking the most bland card I can, and sending him that, along with a Boots voucher. (can't buy anything alcohol related in Boots) This year, I'm thinking about not even bothering with anything. He has no proper place in my life, if he died tomorrow I honestly wouldn't care, and I don't see why I should go along with the "happy Father's Day" bullshit, when he's no sort of father at all. 

I'd like people's opinions on this, I'm happy to expand on anything I've said if that would help, but would others agree, given the information above, that not sending him anything for Fathers Day would be ok? 

Only you can take the ultimate decision. I presume your Father makes no attempt to contact you or be any sort of proper Dad? If that's the case, you'd probably be better off ignoring the fact that it's a made up day created to sell greetings cards, and go about your life as normal.

[Dollymarie]

1 minute ago, glynriley said:

Only you can take the ultimate decision. I presume your Father makes no attempt to contact you or be any sort of proper Dad? If that's the case, you'd probably be better off ignoring the fact that it's a made up day created to sell greetings cards, and go about your life as normal.

When he does make contact, it's all about him. He basically talks at me, with no "how are you?" "what's going on in your life" etc. For example, my foster son has now been living with me for over a year, he's met him 3 times, one of those was when we happened to be in the doctors surgery at the same time. The rest of my family have made him part of their lives. He's never asked me a single question about my foster son, how he's getting on. I don't even think he's made a single comment about me being a foster mum now. 

I don't make the effort with him, because I basically don't want to. I don't see where he fits in my life any more, I also think that given he's the one who's destroyed our relationship with his actions and behaviour (he's been violent to me as an adult on a couple of occasions) that he should be the one reaching out and trying to fix things, but he doesn't do this. 

[Dollymarie]

7 minutes ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

You never know what the future holds. Your father could, however unlikely, change his ways, or at least want to change his ways. It sounds like the bridge is between you is being maintained by just you, and should he want to change he may really need that bridge. 

I cannot claim to understand but I have a family member who didn't talk to his parents for decades, but now have a really strong relationship. Perhaps instead of a card, just write him a letter. Explain exactly what you've put on here and be up front and honest. I don't know your father but it may be best to be tactful with that honesty or as direct as you like. 

Best of luck whatever you decide to do.  

I've told him on several occasions over the years, that if he threw his hands in the air and said "I need help here" then I'd be more than happy to work with that. He says he doesn't have a problem, and so for my own protection and wellbeing I've had to have as little to do with him as possible, because he was basically destroying me. He also affected my opinion of men in general for many years, which is partly why I've ended up single and sadly childless at 37. 

[glynriley]

1 minute ago, Dollymarie said:

When he does make contact, it's all about him. He basically talks at me, with no "how are you?" "what's going on in your life" etc. For example, my foster son has now been living with me for over a year, he's met him 3 times, one of those was when we happened to be in the doctors surgery at the same time. The rest of my family have made him part of their lives. He's never asked me a single question about my foster son, how he's getting on. I don't even think he's made a single comment about me being a foster mum now. 

I don't make the effort with him, because I basically don't want to. I don't see where he fits in my life any more, I also think that given he's the one who's destroyed our relationship with his actions and behaviour (he's been violent to me as an adult on a couple of occasions) that he should be the one reaching out and trying to fix things, but he doesn't do this. 

I think you've already found your answer. Good luck with your choice anyway.

[Tipps69]

My opinion Doll's is that if he is so caught up in his drink, he probably won't even realise when Fathers Day is, so he won't even notice if you don't send him a card.

You have to do what's best for you because he clearly isn't!! And if not sending him a Fathers Day card & gift means that you start to get that bit of separation that you seem to want then don't send him anything.

On the other side, if he does realise when Fathers Day is & he realises that you've not sent him anything, it may help to give him the kick up the ass to change his life!!

[TRL]

2 hours ago, Dollymarie said:

So as non footy has been so helpful and genuine in the past when people have needed advice, I thought I'd have a go myself.

For those of you that don't know, my "dad" (I use that term in the loosest sense) is an abusive alcoholic, he has been since my teens. As a result of this my mum has finally divorced him, and they have now led separate lives for a few years. 

I have a brilliant relationship with the rest of my family, and after over a years worth of counselling a few years back, I have come to terms with the lifestyle and decisions my dad has made, and I'm ok with it. He doesn't see he has a problem, has done nothing to address his drinking, and as a result of all this I have very little to do with him.

My sort of dilemma is this, I haven't now seen my dad for I don't know how long (a few months at least despite him living locally) and haven't spoken to him for 2 months via text message either. I'm honestly happy having as little to do with him as possible (I used to have to when he lived with mum) but it's Father's Day in less than 2 weeks. I dread it every year because I refuse to buy him one of those nice cards about how great he is - because he's not. I usually end up spending ages in the card section before picking the most bland card I can, and sending him that, along with a Boots voucher. (can't buy anything alcohol related in Boots) This year, I'm thinking about not even bothering with anything. He has no proper place in my life, if he died tomorrow I honestly wouldn't care, and I don't see why I should go along with the "happy Father's Day" bullshit, when he's no sort of father at all. 

I'd like people's opinions on this, I'm happy to expand on anything I've said if that would help, but would others agree, given the information above, that not sending him anything for Fathers Day would be ok? 

If you go so far as buying him fathers day cards and even talking to him occasionally he is clearly still in your life. If you hated him that much you would have zero contact.

 

I think that tells you all you need to know Dolly.

[Eddie Hitler]

I would send him the card but no voucher as a minimal way of keeping in touch.

A friend in a similar situation heard similarly little from her dad and didn't get on with him (divorced many years ago and she was brought up by her mum and still sometimes lived with her - very patchy employment record!) until he was very ill and he suddenly became all friendly.  Basically what he was looking for was a free carer and she realised this; she didn't play along but she did get to meet up with him again at a time when all the things she didn't like about him had pretty much gone out of him.

She would have regretted not meeting him like this before he died and that meeting was a consequence of the minimal keeping in touch that they had.

All situations are different but that's the closest parallel of which I know.

[Robbored]

Difficult for any family member of an alcoholic and well before I began to understand how and why dependent drinkers think I used to think exactly the same.

Bottom line - nobody sets out to be an alcoholic but the road to that dependency is often a long one and on the decent down alcoholics develop numerous way of deceiving themselves and consequently they lie to others who in response become even more frustrated and angry with them. 

Somewhere inside your father is a reasonable and decent bloke but he has to stop drinking first and to do that he has to want to stop and accept the appropriate support. If he doesn't want to stop yet then he hasn't reached his own "rock bottom" yet and that's unfortunate for him and his family.

[Dollymarie]

45 minutes ago, TRL said:

If you go so far as buying him fathers day cards and even talking to him occasionally he is clearly still in your life. If you hated him that much you would have zero contact.

 

I think that tells you all you need to know Dolly.

I don't hate him. I literally feel no emotion towards him whatsoever. The counselling helped me with that. That's why I can say without any hesitation that if he died tomorrow I wouldn't care, because the dad I had growing up has essentially died. He looks like my dad, but doesn't deserve the title of dad in my opinion. 

I guess that's why I'm struggling with the "should I buy him a card" thing, cos to do so feels a bit fake. 

[Fordy62]

I don't know you Dolly. I've met you once for a matter of seconds. But reading your posting style and now knowing that you're a foster carer suggest to me that you're not the sort of person who'd say "I'm not sure I'd care if he dropped dead tomorrow" without some sort of reasonable grounding to do so. I'd suggest that you're more than likely a more tolerant person than I, and so your dad is more than likely an idiot. 

So don't feel bad about anything. Truth is, you've probably given him more than enough chances. 

Best of luck whatever you decide. 

[TRL]

1 hour ago, Dollymarie said:

I don't hate him. I literally feel no emotion towards him whatsoever. The counselling helped me with that. That's why I can say without any hesitation that if he died tomorrow I wouldn't care, because the dad I had growing up has essentially died. He looks like my dad, but doesn't deserve the title of dad in my opinion. 

I guess that's why I'm struggling with the "should I buy him a card" thing, cos to do so feels a bit fake. 

All I will say is my Ex absolutely hated her dad, did not speak to him from the age of 20, when he died the guilt she had after was all consuming.

As you say you do not hate your dad, so think carefully what ever you decide.  To be honest I would not worry about getting him a card, if he knows how you feel about him then he probably thinks it is odd that you get him Fathers day and birthday cards, let alone presents.  In fact you are giving off weird messages to him full stop by engaging like this.  If he stopped being your dad years ago, stop talking to him, stop buying him presents.  Unless of course there are still feelings deep down and that is why you continue to do this.

 

All IMO of course.

[Major Isewater]

The first thing I'd like to say is ,never take advice, just weigh it up.

Secondly , you can choose your friends but not your family which can be a darned nuisance. If he wasn't your Dad would you give him the time of day ? If the answer is 'no ' then you are right to let sleeping dogs lie.

He has a responsibility towards you because he brought you into the world but you owe him nothing , nada ,zip . Life is very short don't punish yourself for those who don't deserve your love.

Good luck Dolly , from what I know of you by your posts , you are a wonderful, warmhearted human being and merit only the best in your life.

 

 

[bissellredhead]

Maybe not getting him anything for Father's Day could be a good test as such.

 

if he notices you didn't get him anything then that could potentially help you to talk to him about things.

 

if he doesn't notice or bring it up then you have your answer.

 

[harry may]

I think TRL has made a valid point. Life is too short . You need to do your best, and if its not reciprocated then at least you couldn't have done any more. As an individual you want to be able to live your life without guilt or regrets. I am talking from personal experience.

Best of luck.

[Dollymarie]

I've continued buying him cards because it used to mean that my mum got grief if I didn't, because it was somehow her fault. He blames everyone but himself for anything that goes wrong in his life. He says that mum has poisoned us kids against him, when nothing could be further from the truth. She used to defend him no matter what he did. We saw for ourselves what he is like. 

I've always said to him if he threw his hands in the air and said "I need help," then I'd be there to help him, but I don't think he ever will. And until that unlikely day ever comes, I need to protect myself from any further damage from him, by having as little to do with him as possible. 

[RedM]

6 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

The first thing I'd like to say is ,never take advice, just weigh it up.

Secondly , you can choose your friends but not your family which can be a darned nuisance. If he wasn't your Dad would you give him the time of day ? If the answer is 'no ' then you are right to let sleeping dogs lie.

He has a responsibility towards you because he brought you into the world but you owe him nothing , nada ,zip . Life is very short don't punish yourself for those who don't deserve your love.

Good luck Dolly , from what I know of you by your posts , you are a wonderful, warmhearted human being and merit only the best in your life.

 

 

I've just noticed this thread and was hoping to write pretty much this as it's what I most agree with.

If he wasn't your biological Father would you have anything to do with him, would you chose him as a friend, or enjoy working with him as a workmates or socialising him as a neighbour? I think not, so distance yourself as a daughter. You have your own family and now a foster family you have made. Enjoy those as he is draining you, don't give him the space in your head or time in your thoughts.

It seems like you have held out your arms for him in the past, he now expects this. He knows where you are let him make the first move, this may or may not ever happen, again that's his doing not yours. Don't ever feel guilty, there is no guilt on your part.

i personally would have long given up sending cards years ago, Fathers Day, Birthday, Christmas everything. Free yourself from this person who is leeching your emotions, I guarantee you your will feel liberated.

I think you know @DollymarieI am in a similar situation (without the alcohol) in that I am estranged from pretty much my only family relatives since both my parents died,my brother and sister. They were both complete and utter shites how they were to our parents, I didn't like this and told them. They ganged up against me and I distanced myself from them. I doubt if I'll ever hear from them again. I am happier with the family I have made than the one I was born into. You have have the support of other blood relatives and a foster bond you have worked hard to nurture, don't let one person take your energies away from them.

Take Care, M xx

[WTFiGO!?!]

Hi Dolly, am sorry to hear the situation is still as it is.

It's a given according to all addiction specialists I know that the most loving thing to do is to completely let go until the individual involved is ready for change.  Your father, sadly, has shown no sign of this.  

You can't save him and being involved, before he humbly asks for help as a self-acknowledged broken man, have absolutely no chance and will only be what is known as 'facilitating' him if you try.  You will also only do yourself more harm.

The job is to accept the things you can not change.

There's an ACOA (Adult Children Of Alcohlics) peer-support group that meets on Sundays at 5pm at Colston Fort, Cotham Brow.  

Although my parents are not alcoholic, my own addictions are psychologically attributed to a thing known as 'attachment trauma', meaning, basically, as a child for whatever reasons, I didn't develop the relational bonds that every child needs.  As was the same for pretty much all of my peers in recovery and all children of alcoholics.

It's a tough situation, mate.

[daored]

12 hours ago, Dollymarie said:

So as non footy has been so helpful and genuine in the past when people have needed advice, I thought I'd have a go myself.

For those of you that don't know, my "dad" (I use that term in the loosest sense) is an abusive alcoholic, he has been since my teens. As a result of this my mum has finally divorced him, and they have now led separate lives for a few years. 

I have a brilliant relationship with the rest of my family, and after over a years worth of counselling a few years back, I have come to terms with the lifestyle and decisions my dad has made, and I'm ok with it. He doesn't see he has a problem, has done nothing to address his drinking, and as a result of all this I have very little to do with him.

My sort of dilemma is this, I haven't now seen my dad for I don't know how long (a few months at least despite him living locally) and haven't spoken to him for 2 months via text message either. I'm honestly happy having as little to do with him as possible (I used to have to when he lived with mum) but it's Father's Day in less than 2 weeks. I dread it every year because I refuse to buy him one of those nice cards about how great he is - because he's not. I usually end up spending ages in the card section before picking the most bland card I can, and sending him that, along with a Boots voucher. (can't buy anything alcohol related in Boots) This year, I'm thinking about not even bothering with anything. He has no proper place in my life, if he died tomorrow I honestly wouldn't care, and I don't see why I should go along with the "happy Father's Day" bullshit, when he's no sort of father at all. 

I'd like people's opinions on this, I'm happy to expand on anything I've said if that would help, but would others agree, given the information above, that not sending him anything for Fathers Day would be ok? 

Sorry to hear your situation.

I was in a relationship with a girl who had two daughters, now 18 and 12. Their father is an alcoholic, doesn't work. He bans his daughters from visiting him for weeks on end and then clicks his fingers and they both run back until he decides he doesn't want to see them again, when cycle repeats.

I admire your approach, must be tough but as I said to them you have UK do what's right for you. I hope and pray one day they'll get your strength to make that tough decision.

[Taz]

Ultimately only you can decide what the best course of action to take is. You say you wouldn't care less now if he dropped dead, but chances are that if that did happen, you would feel some guilt, even if only for a very short while.

If you do send a card, maybe say that you'll always be there for him if he wants your help, but until that time comes, you are going to be the best mum AND dad to your foster son that you can.

Your main priority is your foster son, and the family that do want you around though. 

I can't imagine ever being in your situation, but hope you make the decision that is right for you.

[handsofclay]

Maybe get a card that is blank on the inside. Instead of writing Happy Father's Day write Thinking of You on this Day. It would be entirely honest as you would be as you would be thinking of him but not in a good way.

Then you would have discharged your 'duty' without having to feel guilty about not sending anything, or drawing attention to yourself for not acknowledging the day, but you would also not have given a false representation of your feelings.

[phantom]

Hi @Dollymarie

Not the same scenario, but I know where you are coming from

When I was a 11 my dad left as he was having an affair with some plastic blonde tart he was working with

It was odd my eldest sister sided with my dad, my middle sister got on with both, and I was brought up by my mum.

I was brought up hating my dad for moving on and leaving my mum to struggle by, whilst he was buying top of the range cars and going on lavish holidays

He would miss picking me up, even after going to court to get access to visiting me

Gradually as I got older, he tapped into my eldest sister to try and bridge the gap, I used to play Sunday morning football and he started to come along and watch - then all of a sudden never saw him again

For years it played on my mind should I forgive him for everything (too much to go into detail on here), then a crunch came he was diagnosed with lung cancer - he was told with treatment he could prolong his life and not to look too short term

Will always remember going to Dawlish for a long weekend with my girlfriend (now wife), whilst there can remember talking about everything, and I was then determined when we got home to arrange to see him and try and clear the air.

On the day we returned I had literally just walked into my mums place (was still living at home then) and her phone rang, my eldest sister was on the phone to say that my dad had taken a massive turn for the worst and he had passed away suddenly that morning

To this day (25 years on), I'm still racked with guilt about whether I should have been the one to sort things out or not - never got the chance to get angry / get emotional etc with him before he passed. I'm not honestly sure what I would have said to him, but just feel like I never got closure on why he did what he did.

Going back to @Dollymarie all I would say it make sure you have no regrets, as much as I hated my dad - since he has gone there are times where I wish I just cleared the air - but equally there are times I could have just shouted at him with all my energy.

What breaks me is the Mike and the Mechanics song - The living years - have a listen to the words of that song 

[Dollymarie]

1 minute ago, ziderheadarmy said:

Dollys are you a only child ?

Whats your mums views on this and are you close to her ? 

 

Ps I haven't read everyone else's replies so sorry if I have missed the answers to my questions above. 

Nope. I have two siblings. My sister has very little to do with him as she has children and doesn't want him damaging them. He sees the grandkids from time to time. 

My brother is the one who sees my dad the most, although not regularly. I think cos he's the only other boy in the family he keeps more of a link with my dad. 

Me and mum get on brilliantly now she's no longer with him. It took her a long time for her to finally realise he was no good. She struggled for a long time because he was her first love and she'd been with him since she was 16. Dad used to be lovely, and she kept hoping he'd change. He hasn't. 

[Dollymarie]

I've tried. I've lost times of the amount of times I've tried. He doesn't see he has a problem and doesn't see anything wrong in his behaviour. It's over 20 years now this situation has been happening. I firmly believe he'll die before he ever admits he has a problem. His favourite line is "I don't have a problem with alcohol, alcohol has a problem with me" 

Another example, he cashed in his pension lump sum a few years back, and it's all gone. He's literally drunk it away. 

I think I might give my mum the heads up when I see her tonight (she's well aware of my opinion of the situation) that I'm thinking about not acknowledging Father's Day. 

[JBFC II]

My dad left us when i was 3 and has made no effort to get in touch with me in the 14 years since and has even stopped paying child benefits, I've never thought of sending him a fathers day card.

Everyone's case is different however and so I'd do what you feel most comfortable doing, every body deserves another chance and although he maybe hasn't been there for you all the time I'd bet he still loves you and that he appreciates that you put time into getting him a card in recent years and so maybe not getting him one would hurt him more than you think it would

[Septic Peg]

As the self appointed black sheep of the family (similar situation to @RedM where I told some family members - not a parent or sibling but distant family - a few home truths they didn't like), I have little to do with some now. A few I am civil with at family gatherings but that's it. One family member, I have cut off completely. 

At the end of the day, they don't give a stuff about me so I don't waste my time worrying about them. 

I know you well enough Dolls to know you are an extremely kind and honest person. To take an unknown child into your home and treat them as your own is an exceptionally rare quality. There are so few people that have that ability. Children learn about parenting to an extent by watching their own. By this virtue, it's obvious that your dad had little bearing on being a parent when you were a child. So your lovely mummy has shown you and helped you develop into the foster mum you are today.

So you owe him nothing. He has chosen his path. It's up to him now to follow it. 

FWIW, when my dad passed (just to clarify, me and the old man got on fine), a friend of mine that had an estrangement with a parent, chose to make that reconciliation when they realised life was too short. Now they are re-aquainted.

Keep the avenue open. He has contact with your brother and one day, he will come to his senses. It is his problem and not yours just as it is my relatives issues for not accepting what is staring them in the face. If my relatives come to me and want to re-establish a connection, I am open to it as they know.

Like someone else wrote, perhaps a non-Fathers Day, blank card (just a card with a flower on it or an animal or an arty photo) without the falseness. A simple "To Dad, On Fathers Day, From Marie" may suffice. Avenue open but no connotations. He knows how you feel already but may need reminding that you are still a factor in his life.

[exAtyeoMax]

On 06/06/2017 at 09:39, Dollymarie said:

I've told him on several occasions over the years, that if he threw his hands in the air and said "I need help here" then I'd be more than happy to work with that. He says he doesn't have a problem, and so for my own protection and wellbeing I've had to have as little to do with him as possible, because he was basically destroying me. He also affected my opinion of men in general for many years, which is partly why I've ended up single and sadly childless at 37. 

It's not too late. 

Is he likely to worry or notice that he doesn't get a card? Father's Day wasn't even a thing when I was a child (not the same as Mothering Sunday). It's a difficult call, but if you do feel that he should have one, as said above, buy him a blank generic card with a simple message inside. 

[MrBibs]

I deliberately didn't look at the other responses and would definitely say not sending him something is absolutely fine and would reckon they alll said much the same.   The fact that your Dad isn't very nice is no fault of yours.  Based on what I see of you on here you are a very good and decent person and don't deserve any of the crap he has caused you and your Mum.

The fact that you care about doing the right thing says a lot about you.

[Dollymarie]

Just chatted to my mum. Told her I'm contemplating not doing anything for Father's Day. Her words were, well I don't blame you and you're an adult so whatever you decide to do is fine with me. I said I was partly giving her the heads up in case she got any fallout from it as she has in the past.