BigTone Posted June 24, 2017 Report Share Posted June 24, 2017 9 hours ago, Maesknoll Red said: Interesting point raised on another forum I was reading, if the fridge that caused the fire had the wrong fuse fitted, so not protecting it in the event of an electrical defect, just say it should have a 5a and the tenant fitted a 13a, does that constitute a negligent act, if so are they culpable? If they knowing fitted the wrong fuse then it actually becomes a deliberate act. Why did a trip switch not activate ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted June 24, 2017 Report Share Posted June 24, 2017 10 hours ago, Maesknoll Red said: Interesting point raised on another forum I was reading, if the fridge that caused the fire had the wrong fuse fitted, so not protecting it in the event of an electrical defect, just say it should have a 5a and the tenant fitted a 13a, does that constitute a negligent act, if so are they culpable? If they knowing fitted the wrong fuse then it actually becomes a deliberate act. Hard to prove that. I mean can you ever remember ever being given any training about electrics or fitting fuses as a general life skill? I can't, yes you learn it through friends or family, but nowhere else. Yes you should know it, but if you don't, then you can quite rightly say well I was never taught about fuses they all look the same to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted June 24, 2017 Report Share Posted June 24, 2017 Afternoon all, for once in my life this is a serious post I need your help if you can. I urgently need some reputable plastering contractors in London who can install Firecheck plasterboard and Firestop as a matter of urgency. I need them to be able to mobilise urgently. Payment made by Camden Council and I will ensure it is done by priority. I have some contractors but need more. Cheers all Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BanburyRed Posted June 24, 2017 Report Share Posted June 24, 2017 https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/23/two-shelter-board-members-derek-myers-tony-rice-quit-after-grenfell-tower-fire And the exodus continues..... #cowards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Red Posted June 25, 2017 Report Share Posted June 25, 2017 This story's going nowhere very fast. 100% failure rate on tests conducted thus far. Camden Council moving people to hotels and leisure centres, saying they have to leave their flats but with no powers to do so. These temporary measures have no chance of lasting very long at all, and their claims that they can't start remedial work (on cladding ) without the tower blocks being empty don't seem to stack up. All this is surely going to turn to high farce before very long, hundreds of buildings inevitably being labelled death traps leaving countless numbers of people in limbo and not a lot being done about it any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Maesknoll Red Posted June 25, 2017 Admin Report Share Posted June 25, 2017 Who actually sanctioned the fitment of this cladding in the first place? Would I be right in assuming that there aren't that many dodgy contractors using the incorrect materials, so proceeding with assumption, the architects would specify something that meets the current building regs, that leaves, the person who signed off the building regs - whoever that might be. Or am I way off the mark? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted June 26, 2017 Report Share Posted June 26, 2017 On 24/06/2017 at 14:05, BigTone said: Afternoon all, for once in my life this is a serious post I need your help if you can. I urgently need some reputable plastering contractors in London who can install Firecheck plasterboard and Firestop as a matter of urgency. I need them to be able to mobilise urgently. Payment made by Camden Council and I will ensure it is done by priority. I have some contractors but need more. Cheers all Tony Sorted now, ta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted June 26, 2017 Report Share Posted June 26, 2017 10 hours ago, Northern Red said: These temporary measures have no chance of lasting very long at all, and their claims that they can't start remedial work (on cladding ) without the tower blocks being empty don't seem to stack up. What is the answer then ? Firstly, the work being done certainly isn't a temporary measure. Cladding is being removed, Insulation is being removed, external firestops / sealant etc are being removed. All of which will be replaced but do we leave residents open to the elements with just a half inch of plasterboard between then and the outside world ? How do we maintain / guarantee a continuous power supply ? How doe we guarantee the residents safety ? Lots of things need to be considered. Then we have other challenges. Where do I find Scaffold to do the job at 24 hours notice. Where do I buy materials at 24 hours notice given that a high percentage are imported from Europe ? Where do I find the experienced manpower at 24 hours notice ? The list just goes on and on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted June 26, 2017 Report Share Posted June 26, 2017 Genuine question. it is obvious that there has been systemic failures and cost cutting regarding the use of such cladding on many tower blocks, but will there be checks or assurances made for instance on sports grounds such as our own which has cladding all around? and even warehouse etc. Surely now all places where the public have access should be checked?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted June 26, 2017 Report Share Posted June 26, 2017 28 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: Genuine question. it is obvious that there has been systemic failures and cost cutting regarding the use of such cladding on many tower blocks, but will there be checks or assurances made for instance on sports grounds such as our own which has cladding all around? and even warehouse etc. Surely now all places where the public have access should be checked?. A lot of schools used the cladding also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted June 26, 2017 Report Share Posted June 26, 2017 13 minutes ago, BigTone said: A lot of schools used the cladding also Indeed, the question must be how safe are we pretty much anywhere that we go in great numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted June 26, 2017 Report Share Posted June 26, 2017 Have to say it's been amazing how many Main Contractors (in addition to the original one), Subbies & Suppliers have stepped up to the plate on this to help out. Most are working day and night to complete the works asap. ALL aspects of fire safety in the buildings are being looked at and not just the cladding. For example many fire doors have had the closers removed by residents and need replacing. There are numerous other issues that need rectification also. The list goes on. In the meantime some newly built apartments in other Camden projects have had all safety checks done and passed and these are being made available. My understanding is that only a small number of people remain in the Community Centre and hopefully will be in Hotels or other accommodation by tonight or tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted June 26, 2017 Report Share Posted June 26, 2017 4 hours ago, BigTone said: What is the answer then ? Firstly, the work being done certainly isn't a temporary measure. Cladding is being removed, Insulation is being removed, external firestops / sealant etc are being removed. All of which will be replaced but do we leave residents open to the elements with just a half inch of plasterboard between then and the outside world ? How do we maintain / guarantee a continuous power supply ? How doe we guarantee the residents safety ? Lots of things need to be considered. Then we have other challenges. Where do I find Scaffold to do the job at 24 hours notice. Where do I buy materials at 24 hours notice given that a high percentage are imported from Europe ? Where do I find the experienced manpower at 24 hours notice ? The list just goes on and on. All the things that keyboard justice warriors assume is just sat around waiting to be used and/or instructed (not aimed at anyone here - just the general ignorance among the general public as to exactly what is and isn't achievable). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted June 26, 2017 Report Share Posted June 26, 2017 Just now, BRISTOL86 said: All the things that keyboard justice warriors assume is just sat around waiting to be used and/or instructed (not aimed at anyone here - just the general ignorance among the general public as to exactly what is and isn't achievable). Spot on Sir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One hair on my chin Posted June 26, 2017 Report Share Posted June 26, 2017 http://news.sky.com/story/government-fire-investigators-reported-cladding-risks-in-2016-10928193 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BanburyRed Posted June 30, 2017 Report Share Posted June 30, 2017 So, as predicted...those in power on Kensington & Chelsea Council have started resigning http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-40461581 #shamefulcowards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted June 30, 2017 Report Share Posted June 30, 2017 It was never in doubt that heads would role after the dreadful tragedy on their watch. They've fallen on their swords in stead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BanburyRed Posted June 30, 2017 Report Share Posted June 30, 2017 10 minutes ago, Robbored said: It was never in doubt that heads would role after the dreadful tragedy on their watch. They've fallen on their swords in stead. They should've taken their fate through the courts and police investigations, instead they'll disappear and never be heard of again. It's a disgrace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted June 30, 2017 Report Share Posted June 30, 2017 7 minutes ago, BanburyRed said: They should've taken their fate through the courts and police investigations, instead they'll disappear and never be heard of again. It's a disgrace. Just because they've resigned doesn't make them exempt from prosecution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted July 1, 2017 Report Share Posted July 1, 2017 21 hours ago, BanburyRed said: They should've taken their fate through the courts and police investigations, instead they'll disappear and never be heard of again. It's a disgrace. No, no, no they will die on their sword and rightly so. But and this is the big BUT, it is the main contractor who must take responsibility for allowing the works to progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted July 1, 2017 Report Share Posted July 1, 2017 I see the residents have still had rent taken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted July 12, 2017 Report Share Posted July 12, 2017 Just in case anyone is interested but London Fire Brigade today gave the go ahead for residents from GF to 5F in one block and GF to 3F in a second block to start returning to their homes. The balance will be phased as works are completed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erithacus Posted July 12, 2017 Report Share Posted July 12, 2017 What will those people be thinking? I imagine they would not be unpacking their bags due to the urge to find somewhere far away - and soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BanburyRed Posted July 13, 2017 Report Share Posted July 13, 2017 Surely people won't be returning to live in that shell of a death trap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted July 13, 2017 Report Share Posted July 13, 2017 17 hours ago, BanburyRed said: Surely people won't be returning to live in that shell of a death trap? Do they just mean allowed to return to their flats to see what can be salvaged after the fire service have passed them as `safe` to do so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted July 13, 2017 Report Share Posted July 13, 2017 20 hours ago, Erithacus said: What will those people be thinking? I imagine they would not be unpacking their bags due to the urge to find somewhere far away - and soon. All were offered apartments elsewhere and the vast majority decided to remain in their temporary accommodation until their homes were safe to return ............. fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted July 13, 2017 Report Share Posted July 13, 2017 18 hours ago, BanburyRed said: Surely people won't be returning to live in that shell of a death trap? I am talking about the evacuated Camden residents not those from Grenfell Tower. Apologies for not making myself clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BanburyRed Posted July 13, 2017 Report Share Posted July 13, 2017 14 minutes ago, BigTone said: I am talking about the evacuated Camden residents not those from Grenfell Tower. Apologies for not making myself clear. That makes much more sense! Thanks for clarifying @BigTone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted July 13, 2017 Report Share Posted July 13, 2017 I watched the news reporting the meeting last night where the police officer leading the investigation trying to explain where the enquiry was at. I must admit I got quite pissed off by the abuse that the poor man had to endure, people wanting arrests and arrests now, sadly these people (and I understand their anger and their terrible sense of loss) but somebody needs to explain to them whatever the systemic failings that contributed to this tragedy, the law of the land dictates that the police need evidence to make arrests, lynch mob mentality will not bring successful prosecutions and the law of the land regarding the evidence required for arrests will not change even for a tragedy of such magnitude. Sadly these public meetings seem to be turning into angry show trials and I for one think that they have become a waste of time, I would have thought the best way forward now is for these meeting to end and legal representatives to meeting with the police and enquiry teams from now on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILINFRANCE Posted July 14, 2017 Report Share Posted July 14, 2017 8 hours ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: I watched the news reporting the meeting last night where the police officer leading the investigation trying to explain where the enquiry was at. I must admit I got quite pissed off by the abuse that the poor man had to endure, people wanting arrests and arrests now, sadly these people (and I understand their anger and their terrible sense of loss) but somebody needs to explain to them whatever the systemic failings that contributed to this tragedy, the law of the land dictates that the police need evidence to make arrests, lynch mob mentality will not bring successful prosecutions and the law of the land regarding the evidence required for arrests will not change even for a tragedy of such magnitude. Sadly these public meetings seem to be turning into angry show trials and I for one think that they have become a waste of time, I would have thought the best way forward now is for these meeting to end and legal representatives to meeting with the police and enquiry teams from now on. If David Lammy had had his way, 'they' would all have been arrested days ago. This is a tragedy and, clearly, there has been a failure, probably several, somewhere. Nevertheless, I remain sceptical that anybody will ever be charged, much less convicted, of any offence, although, ultimately, 'lessons will have been learned'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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