International Cricket

[Rob k]

9 hours ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Speculative and with the benefit of hindsight.

Ben Stokes has enough credits in the bank to be be backed to the hilt.

Stokes will and should be backed,  however i don’t think it’s Speculative to suggest Bairstow cost us a tight match with his poor glove work 

[Globe Trotter]

Missed chances cost us. It was a great decision to give Root another over to get Carey but then he should have immediately been taken out the attack, new ball taken with an attacking field and Broad and Robbo bowling normally at the tail. 
 

Can’t begrudge Cummins though after the year he has had, he batted excellently. 

Despite the result, another great day out at Edgbaston and I think we’re in for a close series 

[tin]

1 hour ago, Globe Trotter said:

Missed chances cost us. It was a great decision to give Root another over to get Carey but then he should have immediately been taken out the attack, new ball taken with an attacking field and Broad and Robbo bowling normally at the tail. 
 

Can’t begrudge Cummins though after the year he has had, he batted excellently. 

Despite the result, another great day out at Edgbaston and I think we’re in for a close series 

Exactly. Fair play to Australia. They made the most of our mistakes, both with selection and on the pitch, and it’s hard to begrudge success to Cummins. 

Test cricket, though, is meant to test players’ mental strength, fitness and technique and we couldn’t afford to go in with unfit or undercooked players. 

Question marks surround Bairstow’s butterfingers, Mo’s finger (which understandably wasn’t conditioned for Test cricket having bowled so few overs), Stokes’s knee, and Jimmy - has age finally caught up with him? 

I thought whoever wins the first Test will go on to win the Ashes. Our Ashes record in London is abysmal (I think we’ve beaten them at Lord’s, for example, twice in 89 years). We can’t afford any more mistakes and we need to hope they make some errors of their own if we’re to save the series IMO. 

Edited June 21, 2023 by tin

[Mr Hankey]

Really good test that, think it was our own mistakes that cost us (Bairstow missed stumpings, charging down Lyon when he was bowling when we didn't need to do it quite so much, no balls) & not so much Australia being better than us. Does make the next test an almost must win so will that add to the pressure, but a very entertaining start. Can't see any changes, apart from Mo if his finger hasn't healed, which if it does will likely just rip straight back open as it's only a week away. Jimmy potentially rested, but that only happens if he doesn't feel he can go again so soon. I would expect the same line-up, or as close to it as they can possibly get.

[Super]

It is interesting the performance v result debate. How would people feel if we play the same entertaining cricket again next test and lose again? I actually enjoy the way we play and love watching it but ultimately it's a results business. 

[And Its Smith]

12 minutes ago, Super said:

It is interesting the performance v result debate. How would people feel if we play the same entertaining cricket again next test and lose again? I actually enjoy the way we play and love watching it but ultimately it's a results business. 

Stokes says his team aren’t results focused. Personally I think that’s a cop out statement.  Anyone can create exciting matches but the win is also very important.  I see it no different to football and if Nigel Pearson said entertainment is more important than winning and bought on 2 strikers when we were 1-0 up with 15 minutes left, only to lose the game (the equivalent of which we did in this test by the way we batted in our second innings) there would be uproar.

I guess the entertainment v winning debate depends on how much you care about the win in any given sport. For me, I would take England winning the next 3 ashes series over a Bristol City promotion.  

[tin]

27 minutes ago, Super said:

It is interesting the performance v result debate. How would people feel if we play the same entertaining cricket again next test and lose again? I actually enjoy the way we play and love watching it but ultimately it's a results business. 

I love the way we play. We had performances and results in 10 of the first 12 Tests under Stokes and McCullum, so they have shown both can be done. But it doesn’t come any bigger than the Ashes and results matter. At the very least, we must not lose.

We dominated this Test for large periods. People can say our hopes of winning went when Stokes dropped Lyon or whatever, but that’s not what cost us the result. It comes down to selection IMO. 

This might seem a controversial opinion to some, but I got the feeling Stokes - who doesn’t owe us anything and I love as a captaincy - went with his mates. Both of Ali and Bairstow played next to no red-ball cricket for a long time before this Test. That was a huge, and avoidable, risk.

Play our best players and we can beat Australia. Play your mates and I’m not so sure. 

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

2 hours ago, Mr Hankey said:

Really good test that, think it was our own mistakes that cost us (Bairstow missed stumpings, charging down Lyon when he was bowling when we didn't need to do it quite so much, no balls) & not so much Australia being better than us. Does make the next test an almost must win so will that add to the pressure, but a very entertaining start. Can't see any changes, apart from Mo if his finger hasn't healed, which if it does will likely just rip straight back open as it's only a week away. Jimmy potentially rested, but that only happens if he doesn't feel he can go again so soon. I would expect the same line-up, or as close to it as they can possibly get.

I agree with you. You have to give Khawaja and Cummins credit but throughout the test we showed better captaincy and better cricket. Just as in football though individual errors, both in decision making and execution, cost us. 

I can't see how Mo is going to be fit so we need another spinner. Do we go leg spin with Parkinson or do we want another off spinner due to the number of Aussie left handers. Dom Bess, who looked like he was going to be next cab off the rank at one time, is an all rounder choice or how about giving Jack Carson a go. 

Does Ben Foakes come in behind the stumps and if so is he a one for one replacement for Bairstow or does Bairstow stay as a batsman and we make changes elsewhere. 

I can see Mark Wood coming in at Lords but at the expense of whom, Jimmy? 

I'm sure we'll play the same way but will Labuschagne and Smith fail again. Lords is often England's graveyard. 

[Midred]

I think the Bazball worked against the weaker teams last year but the Australians have had time to plan how to counteract it and maybe we'll have to evolve to "Bazball 2" for the rest of the series. 

[Mr Hankey]

20 minutes ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

I agree with you. You have to give Khawaja and Cummins credit but throughout the test we showed better captaincy and better cricket. Just as in football though individual errors, both in decision making and execution, cost us. 

I can't see how Mo is going to be fit so we need another spinner. Do we go leg spin with Parkinson or do we want another off spinner due to the number of Aussie left handers. Dom Bess, who looked like he was going to be next cab off the rank at one time, is an all rounder choice or how about giving Jack Carson a go. 

Does Ben Foakes come in behind the stumps and if so is he a one for one replacement for Bairstow or does Bairstow stay as a batsman and we make changes elsewhere. 

I can see Mark Wood coming in at Lords but at the expense of whom, Jimmy? 

I'm sure we'll play the same way but will Labuschagne and Smith fail again. Lords is often England's graveyard. 

Absolutely, didn't think Khawaja had it in him to play like that in England & Cummins did excellently well both with bat & ball, although i do think he is underrated as a batter (definitely not an all-rounder but can do a job when needed!).

Dom Bess seems to have disappeared, but would be surprised if Mo can make it so be interesting to see what they do there. I think Foakes is a better keep than Bairstow, but don't see who he would come in for. Brooks hasn't done anything wrong to be dropped & Pope is VC so no chance of him making way & i don't think you can drop Bairstow for what he can bring to the bat when he's on form.

My main concern is what you have mentioned at the end - we got Warner, Smith & Labushagne out cheaply in both innings, but still couldn't do enough to get the win.......what happens when they hit form?

[Big C]

2 hours ago, Midred said:

I think the Bazball worked against the weaker teams last year but the Australians have had time to plan how to counteract it and maybe we'll have to evolve to "Bazball 2" for the rest of the series. 

Don't think Bazball cost us this test, it was too many basic mistakes

[TonyTonyTony]

Joe Root back to world number 1 best batsman in tests  Legend

[And Its Smith]

6 hours ago, Big C said:

Don't think Bazball cost us this test, it was too many basic mistakes

The declaration and the stupid second innings batting is bazball. There were the baistow errors as well. Both cost us. 

[Big C]

9 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

The declaration and the stupid second innings batting is bazball. There were the baistow errors as well. Both cost us. 

It was the missed chances and no balls that cost us. 

[And Its Smith]

37 minutes ago, Big C said:

It was the missed chances and no balls that cost us. 

Yes that was one part of it. But if we had batted better second innings we would have won in my opinion. If we bat better or if we take our missed chances, we win. Unfortunately both went wrong 

[Northern Red]

England batsmen were chucking their wickets away with stupid shots long before Bazball was ever a thing.

[northsomersetred]

No mention of the women?

Weston-super-Mare CC player Lauren Filer making her debut!! And what a debut it was.

 

[And Its Smith]

She has bowled pretty well today. Been a good days cricket 

[Northern Red]

Rehan Ahmed added to the squad as cover for Moeen.

[And Its Smith]

Only change will be that I reckon.  Broad had a great game. He won’t drop Jimmy.  Maybe he drops Robinson but he does class Robinson as his best bowler I think so not sure he will drop him after one bad test unless he has a niggle 

[Northern Red]

1 hour ago, And Its Smith said:

Only change will be that I reckon.  Broad had a great game. He won’t drop Jimmy.  Maybe he drops Robinson but he does class Robinson as his best bowler I think so not sure he will drop him after one bad test unless he has a niggle 

I'm not so sure, think a lot will depend on the wicket, plus Lords and Headingley are 3 days apart.

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

Interesting that they went with a leg spinner. I think Jimmy's place is under threat at Lords. I wouldn't be surprised if Wood comes in for him. 

[phantom]

1 hour ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

Interesting that they went with a leg spinner. I think Jimmy's place is under threat at Lords. I wouldn't be surprised if Wood comes in for him. 

Especially after his piece in The Telegraph, almost talking like he doesn't expect to play again this summer

[Northern Red]

8 minutes ago, phantom said:

Especially after his piece in The Telegraph, almost talking like he doesn't expect to play again this summer

I read that as him saying he wants the pitches to offer a bit more than at Edgbaston. Robinson said similar in his Wisden column.

[Lanterne Rouge]

22 minutes ago, phantom said:

Especially after his piece in The Telegraph, almost talking like he doesn't expect to play again this summer

I think it`s all going to catch up with him and it will happen fast when it does. The last thing we want to see is him being taken the piss out of by the likes of Warner and Smith - far better to stop when you are still somewhere near your best IMO.

 

[phantom]

3 hours ago, Northern Red said:

I read that as him saying he wants the pitches to offer a bit more than at Edgbaston. Robinson said similar in his Wisden column.

I agree, but my impression from what he said was he didn't expect them to be much difference 

 

3 hours ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

I think it`s all going to catch up with him and it will happen fast when it does. The last thing we want to see is him being taken the piss out of by the likes of Warner and Smith - far better to stop when you are still somewhere near your best IMO.

 

100% This 

[Lrrr]

5 hours ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

Interesting that they went with a leg spinner. I think Jimmy's place is under threat at Lords. I wouldn't be surprised if Wood comes in for him. 

I'd go Woakes at Lords, if they want Wood as well I'd consider dropping one of Broad/Robinson

[tin]

8 hours ago, Northern Red said:

Rehan Ahmed added to the squad as cover for Moeen.

I’d have had him in last week’s XI ahead of Mo, but there we are!

Edited June 23, 2023 by tin

[Mr Hankey]

Didn’t Jason Gillespie retire mid-Ashes after being absutely taken apart in a couple of matches? Really hope the same doesn’t happen to Jimmy, but he has been phenomenal for so long.

[1960maaan]

Josh Tongue in for Moheen Ali. Not surprised Moheen was out, did struggle at times and his hand would heal that quickly. No obvious like for like so kind of understand it. Might have been fun to give Liam livingstone a go , 2 spinners in one and destructive bat on his day.