Teflon Lee

[BRISTOL86]

1 hour ago, Thatch35 said:

Quality signings? Championship proven? So...no quality as of yet. Gambles which hopefully for LJ work out. LJ out.

Like Abraham was Championship proven? Or Jansson, or Hourihane or Kodjia or any of the other countless examples of players who have excelled in the Championship despite not being 'proven'?

Experience is a massive myth. Maybe we could get the experienced Adam Matthews and Nicky Hunt back instead. 

[Benjam!n Ultra]

44 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Like Abraham was Championship proven? Or Jansson, or Hourihane or Kodjia or any of the other countless examples of players who have excelled in the Championship despite not being 'proven'?

Experience is a massive myth. Maybe we could get the experienced Adam Matthews and Nicky Hunt back instead. 

TBF, and this isn't a dig at you but does show the short memory of a football fan, had it not been for Adam Matthews (and Tomlin's) experience on arrival 18 months ago we could well have been playing L1 football last season.

Of course last season was pretty abysmal for him and us with the second loan but let's not forget we all prayed he'd return due to his efforts in the first loan. 

Experience is certainly not a myth btw. It's why football managers consistently mention it, it's very important to have a core of experience in football (see Wade Elliott, Aaron Wilbraham), to disregard it pretty much goes against most of the history in football.

[Strictly Obi]

1 hour ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Like Abraham was Championship proven? Or Jansson, or Hourihane or Kodjia or any of the other countless examples of players who have excelled in the Championship despite not being 'proven'?

Experience is a massive myth. Maybe we could get the experienced Adam Matthews and Nicky Hunt back instead. 

Exactly this! Our signing of inexperienced strikers has been spot on recently. And although experience is important, it guarantees nothing. For every Wilbraham, there's also a Nicky Hunt etc. In fact I would go as far as to say that the older players last season were the most disappointing. Was anyone that impressed with GON? 

[Nogbad the Bad]

 

 

12 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Been pointed out many times on here LJ stated they brought this summers targets forward to January because of our predicament and did a double window

 

12 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I doubt we intended to sign those in Jan and the ones ongoing but who knows , think the recruitment numbers speak for themselves

You're absolutely right Bob.

This is LJ's '3rd window' time wise, but the equivalent of his 4th recruitment wise.

No need for spin by anyone - It's been stated quite clearly that the 3rd window was brought forward, so there's no need to look to interpret that in any other way than it was indeed brought forward, which means the 3rd window was expended in an increased January intake, and LJ is now, to all intents and purposes, on his 4th.

 

[BRISTOL86]

3 hours ago, Benjam!n Ultra said:

TBF, and this isn't a dig at you but does show the short memory of a football fan, had it not been for Adam Matthews (and Tomlin's) experience on arrival 18 months ago we could well have been playing L1 football last season.

Of course last season was pretty abysmal for him and us with the second loan but let's not forget we all prayed he'd return due to his efforts in the first loan. 

Experience is certainly not a myth btw. It's why football managers consistently mention it, it's very important to have a core of experience in football (see Wade Elliott, Aaron Wilbraham), to disregard it pretty much goes against most of the history in football.

You're right of course - it would be remiss to not acknowledge LT or AMs contribution to our survival. 

What I should hve said is that 'experience for experience's sake' is a myth. I believe all clubs need a bit of know how about them - it would be foolish fielding a side with zero experience of this league. 

But in the case of rebuffing cheap digs about the club and bemoaning a £5.3m signing of an 'inexperienced' player, a valid point was in there somewhere!

[BRISTOL86]

2 hours ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

 

 

 

You're absolutely right Bob.

This is LJ's '3rd window' time wise, but the equivalent of his 4th recruitment wise.

No need for spin by anyone - It's been stated quite clearly that the 3rd window was brought forward, so there's no need to look to interpret that in any other way than it was indeed brought forward, which means the 3rd window was expended in an increased January intake, and LJ is now, to all intents and purposes, on his 4th.

 

Sorry but this view just doesn't make sense. The only way it's an accurate statement is if zero business was planned for January from the off and that we did all of this summers business in January which I don't believe for a minute. That's literally the only way a case can be made for what you are saying, that he did '4 windows worth' of shopping in 3.

As for spinning things, the only 'spin' I can see - from the same couple of people who  use anything and everything to take unnecessary digs at people trying to improve the club - is the spin of trying to suggest that someone's had '4 transfer windows' when the 3rd one has only just begun. It's tiresome. 

For those who can't remember, what Johnson said was:

....it will "probably take three transfer windows" to shape his squad the way he would like.

That statement has no indication of the volumes expected in each window. The point he was clearly making was that until he'd had a full season with the squad and come out of the other side of the third window (that's the one that's just opened by the way) he wouldn't necessarily have a squad he was happy with.

It's also a highly salient point that it wasn't a cast iron 'we'll have an awesome squad in three windows time' statement. It was a point made about the lack of depth and quality in the squad and how it wasn't going to suddenly transform overnight.

Circumstances change - the fact that we purchased players in Jan that we would (may?) not have done had our league position been better is neither here nor there. It doesn't alter the parameters of time!

As a rare Johnson-neutral, I'd say that it's a fairly sensible comment given the horrendous state of the squad he inherited. 

TLDR - why don't you wait and see how the squad looks after three windows have concluded before you judge whether those three windows have been used wisely? Or is that all a bit too sensible?

[RumRed]

20 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Sorry but this view just doesn't make sense. The only way it's an accurate statement is if zero business was planned for January from the off and that we did all of this summers business in January which I don't believe for a minute. That's literally the only way a case can be made for what you are saying, that he did '4 windows worth' of shopping in 3.

As for spinning things, the only 'spin' I can see - from the same couple of people who  use anything and everything to take unnecessary digs at people trying to improve the club - is the spin of trying to suggest that someone's had '4 transfer windows' when the 3rd one has only just begun. It's tiresome. 

For those who can't remember, what Johnson said was:

....it will "probably take three transfer windows" to shape his squad the way he would like.

That statement has no indication of the volumes expected in each window. The point he was clearly making was that until he'd had a full season with the squad and come out of the other side of the third window (that's the one that's just opened by the way) he wouldn't necessarily have a squad he was happy with.

It's also a highly salient point that it wasn't a cast iron 'we'll have an awesome squad in three windows time' statement. It was a point made about the lack of depth and quality in the squad and how it wasn't going to suddenly transform overnight.

Circumstances change - the fact that we purchased players in Jan that we would (may?) not have done had our league position been better is neither here nor there. It doesn't alter the parameters of time!

As a rare Johnson-neutral, I'd say that it's a fairly sensible comment given the horrendous state of the squad he inherited. 

TLDR - why don't you wait and see how the squad looks after three windows have concluded before you judge whether those three windows have been used wisely? Or is that all a bit too sensible?

Lee Johnson himself stated that he'd effectively had 3 windows in an interview, the number of our signings increased due to the perilous position we found ourselves in.

 

[Sir Colby-Tit]

14 hours ago, john from high littleton said:

Nice to see so much positivity on the forum today. Such a joyful place to be party of! 

Did someone say party? 

[BRISTOL86]

2 minutes ago, RumRed said:

Lee Johnson himself stated that he'd effectively had 3 windows in an interview, the number of our signings increased due to the perilous position we found ourselves in.

 

I'm not denying that. Simply saying that the facts of the matter are that the third window has only just begun, however you want to 'spin' it. 

[Nogbad the Bad]

3 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Sorry but this view just doesn't make sense.

I've put it as succinctly as I possible could above, and it makes perfect sense to me, and apparently others.

If it doesn't make sense to you, fine, but Bob & I - and previously others - are just repeating what those at the club have said.

I can't see the need for you to look to interpret it any other way, and it's hard to understand your insistence on trying to do so.

So, sorry, there's nothing I can add which might help with your confusion - it's all written above.

Btw, you may think of yourself as 'Johnson- neutral', but imo. that's not how you've come over on this forum - at least recently - at all.

[BobBobSuperBob]

53 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Sorry but this view just doesn't make sense. The only way it's an accurate statement is if zero business was planned for January from the off and that we did all of this summers business in January which I don't believe for a minute. That's literally the only way a case can be made for what you are saying, that he did '4 windows worth' of shopping in 3.

As for spinning things, the only 'spin' I can see - from the same couple of people who  use anything and everything to take unnecessary digs at people trying to improve the club - is the spin of trying to suggest that someone's had '4 transfer windows' when the 3rd one has only just begun. It's tiresome. 

For those who can't remember, what Johnson said was:

....it will "probably take three transfer windows" to shape his squad the way he would like.

That statement has no indication of the volumes expected in each window. The point he was clearly making was that until he'd had a full season with the squad and come out of the other side of the third window (that's the one that's just opened by the way) he wouldn't necessarily have a squad he was happy with.

It's also a highly salient point that it wasn't a cast iron 'we'll have an awesome squad in three windows time' statement. It was a point made about the lack of depth and quality in the squad and how it wasn't going to suddenly transform overnight.

Circumstances change - the fact that we purchased players in Jan that we would (may?) not have done had our league position been better is neither here nor there. It doesn't alter the parameters of time!

As a rare Johnson-neutral, I'd say that it's a fairly sensible comment given the horrendous state of the squad he inherited. 

TLDR - why don't you wait and see how the squad looks after three windows have concluded before you judge whether those three windows have been used wisely? Or is that all a bit too sensible?

Only one person trying to spin it 86

People merely pointing out what LJ himself said in January

 

[BRISTOL86]

Sorry chaps but saying that summer window, winter window and summer window makes 3, is not 'spin'. It's fact. 

He said it would 'probably' take three transfer windows until he was happy with his squad. If he's happy with his squad after this summer then he'll have done what he said would 'probably' be necessary. Quite how that can be used as a stick to beat him with is beyond me, but some just don't need a logical reason...

As for me not being LJ neutral - you'll find plenty of criticism of LJ thats come from me since he's been here, as well as praise where due. To me that's the very definition of being 'neutral' and to be criticised for not being neutral by @Nogbad the Bad of all people is beyond hilarious. 

[Guest]

On ‎04‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 17:32, old_eastender said:

Depressing isn't it, the two signings lifted the mood a little, but still can't remember going into a season feeling that the best we can do is to come top of the bottom 6.

#Johnson Out

The 3 down from the prem and Brum, Villa, Wolves and others, who are spending like there`s no tomorrow, will be all busting a gut to get to the prem. As you say we will be battling the 3 that came up with a couple of others to stay out of the bottom 3 imo.

This is a tough looking league we are going to have a battle to stay in it, and without an England u21 striker this time. Yes the newbies may come good they are going to  have too, and quick, LJ has put his job on the line with them.........will be waiting for the time to bed in excuses and all the old favourites....wait for the xmas window etc.

Of we go then starting in SL`s backyard.

 

 

[BRISTOL86]

1 hour ago, glos old boy said:

The 3 down from the prem and Brum, Villa, Wolves and others, who are spending like there`s no tomorrow, will be all busting a gut to get to the prem. As you say we will be battling the 3 that came up with a couple of others to stay out of the bottom 3 imo.

This is a tough looking league we are going to have a battle to stay in it, and without an England u21 striker this time. Yes the newbies may come good they are going to  have too, and quick, LJ has put his job on the line with them.........will be waiting for the time to bed in excuses and all the old favourites....wait for the xmas window etc.

Of we go then starting in SL`s backyard.

 

 

They spent £40m on strikers last season. They finished a whole 8 points above us over 46 games. 

[JamesBCFC]

4 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

They spent £40m on strikers last season. They finished a whole 8 points above us over 46 games. 

Indeed, wasn't Villas spend close to £70m last season?

I know they got parachute payments, but even with that they can't be within FFP by much.

[Ska Junkie]

25 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Indeed, wasn't Villas spend close to £70m last season?

I know they got parachute payments, but even with that they can't be within FFP by much.

The way a Villa fan explained it on another forum is that they can't really spend on big fees unless they receive fees first to stay within FFP guidelines, wages are ok but not fees. As it's his club, I bow to his superior knowledge as I have no idea how the current FFP rules ( the 3 year thing) are affected when relegated from the Prem.

[JamesBCFC]

1 minute ago, Ska Junkie said:

The way a Villa fan explained it on another forum is that they can't really spend on big fees unless they receive fees first to stay within FFP guidelines, wages are ok but not fees. As it's his club, I bow to his superior knowledge as I have no idea how the current FFP rules ( the 3 year thing) are affected when relegated from the Prem.

I seem to recall that Bruce had a budget of £1m for transfer fees this year, but cannot remember where I saw it.

Of course, money generate from sales can be added to that, but IMO, Villa seem to be staying dangerously close to the limits.

[Ska Junkie]

10 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

I seem to recall that Bruce had a budget of £1m for transfer fees this year, but cannot remember where I saw it.

Of course, money generate from sales can be added to that, but IMO, Villa seem to be staying dangerously close to the limits.

That sounds about right James and ties in with what the Villa fan said as well. I still don't know how they work out the '3 year' thing when a side comes down, or up for that matter.

[Dynamite Red]

Should have been sacked last season, to his credit he and the team turned it around at the end. A poor start or back to the tombola tactics and squad rotation means the heat will be in him pretty quickly. Let's hope he can walk the walk and deliver.

[Oops]

11 hours ago, Thatch35 said:

Quality signings? Championship proven? So...no quality as of yet. Gambles which hopefully for LJ work out. LJ out.

You're the measure by which all bell-ends on here are judged.

Congratulations on consolidating the number 1 slot 

[Lanterne Rouge]

1 hour ago, Oops said:

You're the measure by which all bell-ends on here are judged.

Congratulations on consolidating the number 1 slot 

I expect he`s gutted that we haven't signed championship proven Kyle Lafferty.

[B block]

The whole thread asks if Johnson is Teflon, I'm big in the Johnson out camp, simply his performances I don't feel have warranted his position and he does not influence the games better than opposing managers.

A measure of someone's worth is easiest assessed by comparing with ones pears, how many people out there do work that they could also do somewhere else ? 

I honestly don't think Johnson would get any work in the top two divisions and possibly the two below that.

mick McCarthys stick is low but he'd get championship work in a heartbeat ( no I'm not saying get mick)

In that sense he is Teflon as the bad stuff doesn't stick

hipe I'm wrong but I think we will struggle, if we do he has absolutely no excuse, although we could be bottom at Christmas and people would still back him

[BRISTOL86]

4 minutes ago, B block said:

The whole thread asks if Johnson is Teflon, I'm big in the Johnson out camp, simply his performances I don't feel have warranted his position and he does not influence the games better than opposing managers.

A measure of someone's worth is easiest assessed by comparing with ones pears, how many people out there do work that they could also do somewhere else ? 

I honestly don't think Johnson would get any work in the top two divisions and possibly the two below that.

mick McCarthys stick is low but he'd get championship work in a heartbeat ( no I'm not saying get mick)

In that sense he is Teflon as the bad stuff doesn't stick

hipe I'm wrong but I think we will struggle, if we do he has absolutely no excuse, although we could be bottom at Christmas and people would still back him

With a win rate of 38% in the Championship, you think he wouldn't get a managerial job outside of non league? Bizarre. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Oops said:

You're the measure by which all bell-ends on here are judged.

Congratulations on consolidating the number 1 slot 

Says the chap who verbally abuses those who don't share his views....cool.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Red Right Hand said:

I expect he`s gutted that we haven't signed championship proven Kyle Lafferty.

You don't know that, must we all have the same views on things? can some not just say what we think without  fear of verbal abuse from those who don't agree with that view?

[Lanterne Rouge]

Just now, glos old boy said:

You don't know that, must we all have the same views on things? can some not just say what we think without  fear of verbal abuse from those who don't agree with that view?

No problem with that but this poster is just trawling for reaction every time he posts. Most in the LJ out camp can justify why they feel as they do and don`t just post `Johnson Out` on every thread just for the sake of it.

[Mtimmy11]

3 hours ago, Dynamite Red said:

Should have been sacked last season, to his credit he and the team turned it around at the end. A poor start or back to the tombola tactics and squad rotation means the heat will be in him pretty quickly. Let's hope he can walk the walk and deliver.

When people say he turned it around it sounds like we made a late dash for the playoffs when in fact there were just 3 worse teams than us thankfully

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Red Right Hand said:

No problem with that but this poster is just trawling for reaction every time he posts. Most in the LJ out camp can justify why they feel as they do and don`t just post `Johnson Out` on every thread just for the sake of it.

That's fair enough but if you don't like what a poster posts why not put him on ignore? (instead of re-acting).....as I am sure many have with me you can just read what you want to read if you want...but it could be a bit boring in la,la,land

[BS4 on Tour...]

On 05/07/2017 at 16:58, Oops said:

Don't think I've ever seen B block happy to be fair 

It used to be the heart and soul of The Gate for a while....

[Lanterne Rouge]

6 minutes ago, Mtimmy11 said:

When people say he turned it around it sounds like we made a late dash for the playoffs when in fact there were just 3 worse teams than us thankfully

Seven actually, nearly a third of the division but don`t let facts get in the way eh.