Joe Bryan Is NOT A Leftback......

[steviestevieneville]

I criticised Joe last season at left back and watched him closely yesterday. My worries  were that he dropped off his winger too much but my main concern was his concentration and letting his man run off him . Yesterday he was much tighter to his man and didn't seem to switch off. He will come up against better players but well done Joe keep it up 

also, welcome back @spudski

[LC_]

Will reserve final judgement for when we come up against better opposition because I thought Barnsley were very ordinary, but the back 4 all had very solid games, Joe very good indeed. Bailey needs to play on the right where he's most comfortable, leaves the left side for either Hegeler or Baker. Flint back up for Wright

[Rudolf Hucker]

Welcome back @spudski.

Last season, I was not overly impressed with Wright as it was clear that a left-sided CB position was not his best position (despite playing there for his country!). He's not a natural left-footer and I think you need to be to play there effectively. Yesterday, in the right CB slot, he looked immense. When Flint came on, Bailey moved across  to the left and we looked unbalanced. I never wanted to lose Flint but after yesterday's performance, I'm happy that if he goes (for big bucks) we will cope.

Bryan gave a consummate LB performance against Barnsley. His uppermost strength is so impressive and provided me with one of my favourite moments from the day when their player, chasing after the ball towards the Dolman tried to shoulder-barge Joe but ended up flat on his back appealing for a foul! Joe looks to have learned a LOT in a short time about playing in the LB position and the probable influence of MacAllister is a very good call. On yesterdays viewing it can only be a matter of time before he completes his long overdue move to Everton!

[Numero Uno]

3 hours ago, ashton_fan said:

If they play next Saturday they will get more of a test at Brum. I think Frankie will miss Flint in away matches as he'll have to come out and catch more, we'll have to wait and see.

Totally agree about Frank. With Hegeler and Wright in there it is inevitable that Frank either needs to come for more crosses or we need a more commanding keeper.

[Londoner]

3 hours ago, Taz said:

...was my opinion before yesterday. After yesterday's game however, I think I may have changed my mind.

I paid a lot of attention to him yesterday, and have to say I thought that he was absolutely brilliant (although not the only player). His positioning in the first half (as I was that side of the pitch) was brilliant, he put in a few good challenges in and around the box, his movement up the pitch was very good (as was Pisano), and his all round game just seemed to be so much better than last season.

I'm not a big fan of Johnson, and have said many times that Joe is not a left back. I am quite prepared after yesterday's match however, to say I was wrong.

Also as a side note, I thought the shape we played with yesterday was brilliant. When Frankie had the ball, both Bryan and Pisano were very nearly on the half way line, with Hegeler and Wright (both very impressive) on the edge of the box, and Pack and Smith just ahead of them acting as deep midfielders. I thought that this worked extremely well. Every player always seemed to want the ball, we pressed very well, and Barnsley couldn't cope with it at all.

Finally, and this may go down like a lead balloon, I thought that we lost our shape when Flint came on the pitch, which also coincided with losing a goal. On yesterday's showing, Hegeler and Wright are going to be very hard to get ahead of. We aren't going to miss Flint as much as some may think, if and when he leaves.

Very impressed with yesterday's performance. If we keep on playing like that, then we will not be worrying about relegation at all.

Lee Johnson may just be starting to work his magic.....

One game. Getting well ahead of yourself 

[Leveller]

The debate about JB has been interesting, as he's evidently talented and often a great attacker - but less solid as a defender.

This has led to the idea of playing him in midfield. But if his defensive frailty is just about positional sense, that can surely be solved and it's job done.

And I'm not Redknapps greatest fan, but when he says "I love the left back" then I think the doubters need to take notice.

[1960maaan]

2 hours ago, Robbored said:

Not according to LJ yesterday. He mentioned the PL because of the fee City would want. I interpreted that as most Championship clubs not being able to afford the asking price.

Doesn't necessarily  follow now, with Wolves paying £15m for a player and Villa spending £40m on three players last year, Boro paying £12m for one this, but I get your point..
It may have been a little bit of not wanting to sell to a rival too, as much as implying that the fee will have to be a Premiership one

[Lanterne Rouge]

7 minutes ago, Londoner said:

One game. Getting well ahead of yourself 

I think it was more the transformation in his game from backing off from his man and letting him get his cross off as he did far too often last season and yesterday when he was tight and didn`t give the opponent any space. He also seems to have developed and edge to his game from what I saw - he was always a bit too nice. IMO it`s the influence of Jamie Mac that has changed things.

[Londoner]

3 hours ago, Taz said:

...was my opinion before yesterday. After yesterday's game however, I think I may have changed my mind.

I paid a lot of attention to him yesterday, and have to say I thought that he was absolutely brilliant (although not the only player). His positioning in the first half (as I was that side of the pitch) was brilliant, he put in a few good challenges in and around the box, his movement up the pitch was very good (as was Pisano), and his all round game just seemed to be so much better than last season.

I'm not a big fan of Johnson, and have said many times that Joe is not a left back. I am quite prepared after yesterday's match however, to say I was wrong.

Also as a side note, I thought the shape we played with yesterday was brilliant. When Frankie had the ball, both Bryan and Pisano were very nearly on the half way line, with Hegeler and Wright (both very impressive) on the edge of the box, and Pack and Smith just ahead of them acting as deep midfielders. I thought that this worked extremely well. Every player always seemed to want the ball, we pressed very well, and Barnsley couldn't cope with it at all.

Finally, and this may go down like a lead balloon, I thought that we lost our shape when Flint came on the pitch, which also coincided with losing a goal. On yesterday's showing, Hegeler and Wright are going to be very hard to get ahead of. We aren't going to miss Flint as much as some may think, if and when he leaves.

Very impressed with yesterday's performance. If we keep on playing like that, then we will not be worrying about relegation at all.

Lee Johnson may just be starting to work his magic.....

It was Barnsley, you are getting way ahead of yourself.

Hegeler was put under naff all pressure yesterday, when he was, he struggled...he is not a long term solution. Very hard to get ahead of? I think you'll find Baker will replace him next week.

Smith and Pack holding did workwell....because they were playing a desperately poor side and put under no pressure....how would they fair at someone like Derby....a middle 3 of Johnson Huddlestone Butterfield or Bryson? They would get bullied.

The shape was square pegs in round holes, brownhill is not a wideplayer...he isn't as effective there and for me deserves a run in cm instead of korey Smith....if this Swedish kid arrives.

Lost our shape when flint came on? No we in first gear strolling to victory.

You have provided a good attempt but failed to remember this is one game against a dire side

 

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 minute ago, 1960maaan said:

Doesn't necessarily  follow now, with Wolves paying £15m for a player and Villa spending £40m on three players last year, Boro paying £12m for one this, but I get your point..
It may have been a little bit of not wanting to sell to a rival too, as much as implying that the fee will have to be a Premiership one

And I wondered whether Joe himself has said he's not interested unless a Prem Club comes in 

[1960maaan]

1 minute ago, Londoner said:

1) It was Barnsley, you are getting way ahead of yourself. 

2) Hegeler was put under naff all pressure yesterday, when he was, he struggled...he is not a long term solution. Very hard to get ahead of? I think you'll find Baker will replace him next week.

3) Smith and Pack holding did workwell....because they were playing a desperately poor side and put under no pressure....how would they fair at someone like Derby....a middle 3 of Johnson Huddlestone Butterfield or Bryson? They would get bullied.

4) The shape was square pegs in round holes, brownhill is not a wideplayer...he isn't as effective there and for me deserves a run in cm instead of korey Smith....if this Swedish kid arrives.

Lost our shape when flint came on? No we in first gear strolling to victory.

5) You have provided a good attempt but failed to remember this is one game against a dire side

 

1) We played Barnsley, and beat them. People can only dissect and analyse the game/team in front of them, and as starts go , it wasn't bad.

2) It wasn't a bad game to start him there, struggled with the pace of the game last year. Thought he did ok , is obviously a footballer but agree Baker will be in now he's over suspension.

3) They did ok in a reasonable run at the end of last year, but agree the shape made need a rethink against certain  of the better teams, specially if they employ a central 3.

4) I thought he did well yesterday, with Pisano eager to go wide it gives options as Brownhill is happy cutting in. I was thinking yesterday prematch, that eventually Brownhill could be a very good CM for us.

5) Can only beat what's in front of you, and while they were bang average we beat them well. I would have liked to have added to the goals 2nd half , but that rarely happens with one team looking for damage limitation, and the other not needing to take chances.

All in all a decent start to the season, next week will be a sterner test but I'm not so sure Brum will be pushing at the top end, Harry or no Harry. 
I'd take a nil nil now, although I think wemay have it in us to sneak a win. I won't get carried away, unless we win our first 10, then I might.

4 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

And I wondered whether Joe himself has said he's not interested unless a Prem Club comes in 

 .Another possibility

[Phileas Fogg]

17 minutes ago, Londoner said:

It was Barnsley, you are getting way ahead of yourself.

Hegeler was put under naff all pressure yesterday, when he was, he struggled...he is not a long term solution. Very hard to get ahead of? I think you'll find Baker will replace him next week.

Smith and Pack holding did workwell....because they were playing a desperately poor side and put under no pressure....how would they fair at someone like Derby....a middle 3 of Johnson Huddlestone Butterfield or Bryson? They would get bullied.

The shape was square pegs in round holes, brownhill is not a wideplayer...he isn't as effective there and for me deserves a run in cm instead of korey Smith....if this Swedish kid arrives.

Lost our shape when flint came on? No we in first gear strolling to victory.

You have provided a good attempt but failed to remember this is one game against a dire side

 

Whilst what you say is sometimes interesting, I don't really know why you constantly communicate your points in such a condescending superior tone. What's the aim?

[JustinCider]

3 hours ago, spudski said:

I think Jamie Mac may have had some positive influence on JB. His positioning, like you say was much better. He can still improve on not allowing crosses coming in though.

Our whole back four looked far more mobile and confident imo.

Pisano was a breath of fresh air...positionally good, mobile, strong, good at crossing, good link up play etc,etc.

I also agree about Flint...he has his positives...Team leader, ball winner and threat at set pieces. However...I always thought him and Wright were too similar and immobile at CB together. I liked having Wright with his ball winning skills, and the astuteness and vision and ball skills of Hegeler next to him.

Having Baker and Wright together, actually doesn't fill me with confidence...again too similar. If it was to happen...then I'd prefer to have Hegeler playing next to Pack in CM.

I thought the team yesterday looked very balanced with plenty of energy and movement. Something we've lacked last season in certain places.

If we could find a more dominate fiery ball winner with lots of energy and mobility to compliment and play alongside Pack instead of Smith, it would help over the course of the season.

I think an upgrade on Smith and O'neil is needed if we wish to kick on again...I see both of them as being lower Championship quality or 'back up/squad players in the DCM position.

Too early to tell yet, as we will face far sterner opposition...but on yesterdays performance, mid table should be achievable.

 

Great to see you back Spud. 

I've been wondering though.....are you and JoeAman08 one and the same person? As in your absence he's been posting a lot of non-hysterical, always balanced and insightful stuff....just wondering like ;-)

[Northern Red]

9 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Whilst what you say is sometimes interesting, I don't really know why you constantly communicate your points in such a condescending superior tone. What's the aim?

Because he's an academic and therefore better than us plebs, obviously. 

[The Bard]

3 hours ago, spudski said:

I think Jamie Mac may have had some positive influence on JB. His positioning, like you say was much better. He can still improve on not allowing crosses coming in though.

Our whole back four looked far more mobile and confident imo.

Pisano was a breath of fresh air...positionally good, mobile, strong, good at crossing, good link up play etc,etc.

I also agree about Flint...he has his positives...Team leader, ball winner and threat at set pieces. However...I always thought him and Wright were too similar and immobile at CB together. I liked having Wright with his ball winning skills, and the astuteness and vision and ball skills of Hegeler next to him.

Having Baker and Wright together, actually doesn't fill me with confidence...again too similar. If it was to happen...then I'd prefer to have Hegeler playing next to Pack in CM.

I thought the team yesterday looked very balanced with plenty of energy and movement. Something we've lacked last season in certain places.

If we could find a more dominate fiery ball winner with lots of energy and mobility to compliment and play alongside Pack instead of Smith, it would help over the course of the season.

I think an upgrade on Smith and O'neil is needed if we wish to kick on again...I see both of them as being lower Championship quality or 'back up/squad players in the DCM position.

Too early to tell yet, as we will face far sterner opposition...but on yesterdays performance, mid table should be achievable.

 

Good points except what you think about Hegeler and Smith.  Smith and Pack are must picks for me whichever structure the team has.  Smith is not given the credit he deserves I think largely because he does a lot of the less noticeable work that knits a team together.  They both organise and Importantly know exactly what they're doing together.  Hegeler is suited to carrying the ball out from the back but lacks the mobility to play in CM. The Fulham game at AG last season exposed this. 

 

I like Hegeler at the back when we are able to dominate the ball.  However, I doubt whether he's what we would want when defending a lead at somewhere like Pride Park or Riverside when we will come under a lot of pressure. He wasn't really under pressure today. 

[brizzlelou]

34 minutes ago, Londoner said:

It was Barnsley, you are getting way ahead of yourself.

Hegeler was put under naff all pressure yesterday, when he was, he struggled...he is not a long term solution. Very hard to get ahead of? I think you'll find Baker will replace him next week.

Smith and Pack holding did workwell....because they were playing a desperately poor side and put under no pressure....how would they fair at someone like Derby....a middle 3 of Johnson Huddlestone Butterfield or Bryson? They would get bullied.

The shape was square pegs in round holes, brownhill is not a wideplayer...he isn't as effective there and for me deserves a run in cm instead of korey Smith....if this Swedish kid arrives.

Lost our shape when flint came on? No we in first gear strolling to victory.

You have provided a good attempt but failed to remember this is one game against a dire side

 

Not really been on the forum all that much over the summer because the constant false transfer rumours can be tedious however, in coming back I've remembered one thing and that is how much of a condescending, up their own arse, patronising toss pot you are.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

31 minutes ago, Londoner said:

It was Barnsley, you are getting way ahead of yourself.

Hegeler was put under naff all pressure yesterday, when he was, he struggled...he is not a long term solution. Very hard to get ahead of? I think you'll find Baker will replace him next week.

Smith and Pack holding did workwell....because they were playing a desperately poor side and put under no pressure....how would they fair at someone like Derby....a middle 3 of Johnson Huddlestone Butterfield or Bryson? They would get bullied.

The shape was square pegs in round holes, brownhill is not a wideplayer...he isn't as effective there and for me deserves a run in cm instead of korey Smith....if this Swedish kid arrives.

Lost our shape when flint came on? No we in first gear strolling to victory.

You have provided a good attempt but failed to remember this is one game against a dire side

 

And what you have provided but failed to remember is last season, even with our great start to the season, we hardly ever dominated in any of those games and even more importantly the games against inferior opposition that we either lost or struggled to grind out a point in, that is 'so far' 2 improvements from last season in anybody's language.

The highlighted portion is totally without an ounce of fact at this moment in time.

As for Brownhill, I thought he did ok and as he showed throughout the game, to play in the centre of midfield he would certainly need to cut out the showmanship, Smith rescued him several times when the showmanship went wrong.

Hegeler was clearly struggling with a muscle problem, his substitution was good management.

I get your main point as do most posters, this is one game and we will have a better idea after 10/15 games of course we will, but you seem to get a kick from being out of step with the vast majority of posters for some reason.

Am I fully convinced that JB has turned the corner?, am I convinced that LJ can deliver consistency?, once more 10/15 games will tell us more, but yesterday was glimpse of what could be with 2 well performing full backs and a midfield who actually looked as though they knew what they were doing for a change.

 

[Londoner]

1 hour ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

And what you have provided but failed to remember is last season, even with our great start to the season, we hardly ever dominated in any of those games and even more importantly the games against inferior opposition that we either lost or struggled to grind out a point in, that is 'so far' 2 improvements from last season in anybody's language.

The highlighted portion is totally without an ounce of fact at this moment in time.

As for Brownhill, I thought he did ok and as he showed throughout the game, to play in the centre of midfield he would certainly need to cut out the showmanship, Smith rescued him several times when the showmanship went wrong.

Hegeler was clearly struggling with a muscle problem, his substitution was good management.

I get your main point as do most posters, this is one game and we will have a better idea after 10/15 games of course we will, but you seem to get a kick from being out of step with the vast majority of posters for some reason.

Am I fully convinced that JB has turned the corner?, am I convinced that LJ can deliver consistency?, once more 10/15 games will tell us more, but yesterday was glimpse of what could be with 2 well performing full backs and a midfield who actually looked as though they knew what they were doing for a change.

 

Actually I would suggest hegeler started ropey and got better nothing to do with a muscle problem there....just put under pressure. 

[Londoner]

1 hour ago, 1960maaan said:

1) We played Barnsley, and beat them. People can only dissect and analyse the game/team in front of them, and as starts go , it wasn't bad.

2) It wasn't a bad game to start him there, struggled with the pace of the game last year. Thought he did ok , is obviously a footballer but agree Baker will be in now he's over suspension.

3) They did ok in a reasonable run at the end of last year, but agree the shape made need a rethink against certain  of the better teams, specially if they employ a central 3.

4) I thought he did well yesterday, with Pisano eager to go wide it gives options as Brownhill is happy cutting in. I was thinking yesterday prematch, that eventually Brownhill could be a very good CM for us.

5) Can only beat what's in front of you, and while they were bang average we beat them well. I would have liked to have added to the goals 2nd half , but that rarely happens with one team looking for damage limitation, and the other not needing to take chances.

All in all a decent start to the season, next week will be a sterner test but I'm not so sure Brum will be pushing at the top end, Harry or no Harry. 
I'd take a nil nil now, although I think wemay have it in us to sneak a win. I won't get carried away, unless we win our first 10, then I might.

 .Another possibility

Dont get me wrong i think brownhill did decent there as well, certainly his movement inside enables us to play with a degree of fluidity that is beneficial....long term option out wide probably not.

Barnsley will get better they have 3 or 4 to come in which will make a difference  I would maintain they were a poor side yesterday who made it very easy for us first half.

[spudski]

The clarify a few points that a couple people made in response to my post re Smith and Hegeler.

Don't get me wrong...I think Smith is a fine player for what he does. He complimented Pack well yesterday and did a lot of clearing up.

However...if we are to kick on and improve what we already have, then Imo, I think we need someone who is more dominant than Smith and O'neil...someone with more presence. Basically a better version of what Smith is.

I personally like to see two mobile and energetic full backs, like we have with Bryan and Pisano now.

A dominant ball winning CB like Wright, partnered with another CB who can play like a sweeper. Someone who can see a pass, direct play and who is calm. I see that in Hegeler.

When you have a ball winning CB and a ball winning midfielder, when defending, they can often play like a 'traditional' CB pairing...one basically swapping positions slightly with the midfielder.

Imagine a CB partnership of say Wright and Hegeler with Pack and someone more dominant like a Kalife Cisse type player just in front in CM.

Have that with 3 mobile and energetic attacking midfielders and Striker.

Last season players strolled through our CM...regardless of what partnerships we had, offensively we were fine, defensively we were not.

I just don't think over a season, Smith and O'neil are the DM's that will take us forward.

Our distribution from the CB pairing was also poor...and it was too slow of mind. Often rushed or panicked. Hegeler in the CB position gives assurance, a calm head and most importantly can keep possession, find a pass, dribble into space and gives all round confidence...especially if he had that better dominant DCM in front of him.

Just my opinion...I like 'footballers' CB's who can play...not just Bruts that are stoppers.

Regardless....the balance of the team looks far better than it did last season.

If Flint does go...I hope the money goes towards that better DCM.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

11 minutes ago, Londoner said:

Actually I would suggest hegeler started ropey and got better nothing to do with a muscle problem there....just put under pressure. 

At this juncture I will have to call bullshit, Hegeler clearly signalled to the bench that he had a problem/niggle just before Flint was readied and brought on to replace him.

I don't think he started ropey at all, but even if he did then getting better as the game went on was going in the right direction, unlike yourself.

[MarcusX]

4 hours ago, Davefevs said:

And it meant Wright switching to left side of a two, no coincidence that he got caught a bit wrong-footed for their goal.  Why not bring Magnússon on?

 

.....or was a Flint's goodbye?

The only logical conclusion? Unless there was a knock/injury worry

did he get a good reception or treated like it might be his last appearance?

[Esmond Million's Bung]

4 minutes ago, spudski said:

The clarify a few points that a couple people made in response to my post re Smith and Hegeler.

Don't get me wrong...I think Smith is a fine player for what he does. He complimented Pack well yesterday and did a lot of clearing up.

However...if we are to kick on and improve what we already have, then Imo, I think we need someone who is more dominant than Smith and O'neil...someone with more presence. Basically a better version of what Smith is.

I personally like to see two mobile and energetic full backs, like we have with Bryan and Pisano now.

A dominant ball winning CB like Wright, partnered with another CB who can play like a sweeper. Someone who can see a pass, direct play and who is calm. I see that in Hegeler.

When you have a ball winning CB and a ball winning midfielder, when defending, they can often play like a 'traditional' CB pairing...one basically swapping positions slightly with the midfielder.

Imagine a CB partnership of say Wright and Hegeler with Pack and someone more dominant like a Kalife Cisse type player just in front in CM.

Have that with 3 mobile and energetic attacking midfielders and Striker.

Last season players strolled through our CM...regardless of what partnerships we had, offensively we were fine, defensively we were not.

I just don't think over a season, Smith and O'neil are the DM's that will take us forward.

Our distribution from the CB pairing was also poor...and it was too slow of mind. Often rushed or panicked. Hegeler in the CB position gives assurance, a calm head and most importantly can keep possession, find a pass, dribble into space and gives all round confidence...especially if he had that better dominant DCM in front of him.

Just my opinion...I like 'footballers' CB's who can play...not just Bruts that are stoppers.

Regardless....the balance of the team looks far better than it did last season.

If Flint does go...I hope the money goes towards that better DCM.

Once more I agree with virtually everything that you say, O'neil has rarely impressed me since his arrival, so I would agree with your appraisal there, but I don't actually believe there are many better in the championship and at a reasonable price than Smith at what he does.

Bearing in mind Matic cost Manu 40mil (I am not trying to compare the 2 of them here, obviously) but as a creative force Matic isn't really world class in that regard.

And bear in mind Spud that all of last season I said the midfield and full backs were the main problems, yesterday looked a huge improvement all around, I believe a wide player who can cross a ball and take reasonable free kicks is now where the priority lies, Patterson played ok but the one chance he was presented with he feathered it like a pass back to the keeper instead of lacing it and his and Brownhill's crossing is not up to standard (but they both played ok).

That is what I saw yesterday.

 

 

 

[spudski]

17 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Once more I agree with virtually everything that you say, O'neil has rarely impressed me since his arrival, so I would agree with your appraisal there, but I don't actually believe there are many better in the championship and at a reasonable price than Smith at what he does.

Bearing in mind Matic cost Manu 40mil (I am not trying to compare the 2 of them here, obviously) but as a creative force Matic isn't really world class in that regard.

And bear in mind Spud that all of last season I said the midfield and full backs were the main problems, yesterday looked a huge improvement all around, I believe a wide player who can cross a ball and take reasonable free kicks is now where the priority lies, Patterson played ok but the one chance he was presented with he feathered it like a pass back to the keeper instead of lacing it and his and Brownhill's crossing is not up to standard (but they both played ok).

That is what I saw yesterday.

 

 

 

I agree with that EMB...they are hard to come by over here for a reasonable price. I'd be looking in Germany and Italy and such like. Better value.

I saw the ability to cross from both Bryan and Pisano yesterday...and I feel LJ is looking to combine the use of the full backs as well as the pace and energy of the likes of Brownhill, Paterson and O'dowda.

I really don't think LJ is planning to use a 'winger' perse.  Not someone like Albert.

How I see it, any width will be combined work between the full back and wider attacking midfielders. With other players covering when needed.

In saying that...I think LJ is collecting players that are adaptable and can play in more than one position. I can't see us keeping the same side week in and week out.

Like it or loath it, it's not the modern way. As you know, it's squad football...and teams are picked on finding the weaknesses of the opposition through scouting, and using players in our 'Arsenal' to exploit those weaknesses.

I should imagine there will be times when we play defensively with the likes of say Baker and Wright and Smith in the same side. On other occasions we may see a more offensive set up like yesterday.

Swings and roundabouts.

But you are right...we don't have a 'winger' of such like qualities.

[Londoner]

42 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

At this juncture I will have to call bullshit, Hegeler clearly signalled to the bench that he had a problem/niggle just before Flint was readied and brought on to replace him.

I don't think he started ropey at all, but even if he did then getting better as the game went on was going in the right direction, unlike yourself.

You have mis understood my post. Towards the end he may have been suffering from an injury, however at the start he didn't and that was when he was most uncomfortable. Out of position on a couple of occasions and a stupid foul given away. Which he got away with.

I'm not sure what your point is about directions.

 

[Davefevs]

The thing that impressed me yesterday was that we looked like we had a style, a way of playing that the boys understood and felt comfortable playing.

There was none of the:

- it has to go through Tomlin 

- if Tomlin requests the ball he has to be given it

- lop-sided / one-sided attacking of last season

There are of course things to improve upon.

Hegeler did look a bit uncomfortable in the opening ten, but he won't have faced Bradshaw or Ugbo before, and not played left CB in a two in a competitive game for us before either.  He adapted, and we grew from his presence (and Wright), and his ability on the ball.  There was a passage of play in first half, when Pack came deep (left CB position) and got the ball off of Frankie, but was  being closed down.  He had no time to take a touch, but Hegeler found the angle to get a first time pass.  The pass was very heavy and with a man then closing down Hegeler, he took a great touch to move the ball where he wanted to, so that he'd avoid the challenging player.  Second touch he moved away from the over-committed player, and the only thing the opponent could do was haul him to the ground.

Re-consider that scenario without Hegeler.  With Flint, Baker or Wright, Pack either hoofs it, has to hit a short first time pass to FF who then has Pack's opponent closing him down, or plays it to his teammate who is not going to be as capable as Hegeler.

Not saying Hegeler is a 46 game a season man at CB, but I see his merits.

Re Smith, neat and tidy, unseen work and effort, and kept us higher up the pitch than last season.  That's why we made Barnsley look poor, we had good possession in their third.

Of course there are better midfields in this division, not only on paper.  Easy to say Derby's 3 will bully ours, but with hardworking Paterson and Brownhill, often drifting inside to make a tighter 4, who's to say we won't outnumber them?  Football too fluid to say for sure.

Re Brownhill, although him playing wide right gives a slightly lop-sided look to our starting formation - 3 CMs and one LW (Paterson), I'm not sure we are ready / good enough to go with a traditional 4 of RW, CM, CM, LW.  I think Brownhill us a bit of a compromise, safety net in that position and I think he has much to offer us, just not in the typical RW way.  Remember Gerrard playing there in MacLaren's first two games for England, after he'd left Beckham out.  Was excellent.  Benitez played him a fair. It there when he had Alonso and Mascerano in the middle.

I'm quite happy with the 4 across the park.  Of course it can be improved, Eliasson might be the missing link.  Time will tell.

Lots of + yesterday.  Small number of -.

Take the 3 points.  We will beat better sides than Barnsley, but I suspect we will get zero points from worse.  We are a work in progress.

I saw a City team with an identity yesterday.

[Taz]

5 hours ago, Londoner said:

It was Barnsley, you are getting way ahead of yourself.

Hegeler was put under naff all pressure yesterday, when he was, he struggled...he is not a long term solution. Very hard to get ahead of? I think you'll find Baker will replace him next week.

Smith and Pack holding did workwell....because they were playing a desperately poor side and put under no pressure....how would they fair at someone like Derby....a middle 3 of Johnson Huddlestone Butterfield or Bryson? They would get bullied.

The shape was square pegs in round holes, brownhill is not a wideplayer...he isn't as effective there and for me deserves a run in cm instead of korey Smith....if this Swedish kid arrives.

Lost our shape when flint came on? No we in first gear strolling to victory.

You have provided a good attempt but failed to remember this is one game against a dire side

 

Yes Barnsley were poor, but rather than concentrating how poor they were, I've looked at how encouraging and positive we were - especially beating them to most of the loose balls and getting into them. Going in 3 goals up at half time also helps.

The first half display was one of the best I've personally seen in a long time, and many others at half time queuing for toilets, food etc were saying exactly the same thing.

It's very easy to say "it's only Barnsley, they'll get relegated anyway". I'm not saying it's the finished article, and you can only beat what's in front of you, but it's a very encouraging start.

[Taz]

8 hours ago, red as **** said:

You been getting tips off the Evil for your thread title Taz?

Horrendous click bait.....

They've been stealing my titles for years .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not really, but it wouldn't be the first time would it 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

3 hours ago, spudski said:

I agree with that EMB...they are hard to come by over here for a reasonable price. I'd be looking in Germany and Italy and such like. Better value.

I saw the ability to cross from both Bryan and Pisano yesterday...and I feel LJ is looking to combine the use of the full backs as well as the pace and energy of the likes of Brownhill, Paterson and O'dowda.

I really don't think LJ is planning to use a 'winger' perse.  Not someone like Albert.

How I see it, any width will be combined work between the full back and wider attacking midfielders. With other players covering when needed.

In saying that...I think LJ is collecting players that are adaptable and can play in more than one position. I can't see us keeping the same side week in and week out.

Like it or loath it, it's not the modern way. As you know, it's squad football...and teams are picked on finding the weaknesses of the opposition through scouting, and using players in our 'Arsenal' to exploit those weaknesses.

I should imagine there will be times when we play defensively with the likes of say Baker and Wright and Smith in the same side. On other occasions we may see a more offensive set up like yesterday.

Swings and roundabouts.

But you are right...we don't have a 'winger' of such like qualities.

Again I agree Bryan and Pisano were crossing the ball fine yesterday, but Brownhill, Patterson and Odowda crossing was generally poor and our free kicks were not so good either.

Hopefully if a deal can be done for Eliasson he might just fit that bill.

I suppose my point about Smith is the word upgrade, I cannot think of many in the championship in our price bracket that would be any kind of upgrade and would come to us and also in my book replace Smith at your peril it may affect Pack, who seems to be at last heading into some kind of consistency and your comment about LJ collecting players illustrates my point, be careful what you wish for, Patterson is ok if somewhat inconsistent, Odowda I do not see as championship ready, and the jury is firmly out on Đurić, Magnússon and Engvall and that might end up being a huge outlay for very little return.

Yesterday was encouraging and I believe shows the style that LJ aspires to play, but we have to accept that last seasons recruitment has not yet proved a raging success and we did invest a lot of money, that recruitment has to improve and therefore any 'upgrade' must indeed be an upgrade, because I don't see with the possible exception of Patterson any upgrade with the other 4 that I mentioned.

 

[spudski]

1 hour ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Again I agree Bryan and Pisano were crossing the ball fine yesterday, but Brownhill, Patterson and Odowda crossing was generally poor and our free kicks were not so good either.

Hopefully if a deal can be done for Eliasson he might just fit that bill.

I suppose my point about Smith is the word upgrade, I cannot think of many in the championship in our price bracket that would be any kind of upgrade and would come to us and also in my book replace Smith at your peril it may affect Pack, who seems to be at last heading into some kind of consistency and your comment about LJ collecting players illustrates my point, be careful what you wish for, Patterson is ok if somewhat inconsistent, Odowda I do not see as championship ready, and the jury is firmly out on Đurić, Magnússon and Engvall and that might end up being a huge outlay for very little return.

Yesterday was encouraging and I believe shows the style that LJ aspires to play, but we have to accept that last seasons recruitment has not yet proved a raging success and we did invest a lot of money, that recruitment has to improve and therefore any 'upgrade' must indeed be an upgrade, because I don't see with the possible exception of Patterson any upgrade with the other 4 that I mentioned.

 

Fair points EMB.

Like I said, I think LJ is trying to find players that can play in various roles depending on who we are playing against.

I've seen nothing to suggest since LJ has been in charge, that he will play with wide players in the role of a winger who gets to the bye line and crosses on a regular basis.

If we do cross...more often than not it will come from a probing full back. Bryan and Pisano yesterday.

Which is where I think he will rely on crosses coming from if that is the game plan.

Our midfield play narrower and tend to rely on making play in front of the 18 yard box.

As for recruitment...it's been very much as to the blueprint. Buy players that are ok with the potential to get better.

Which is fair enough, as we can't compete financially with the bigger boys. However...improving generally happens with regular game time and work on the training fields.

I've seen improvement in some...others not so much, but still potential.

Eliasson might be a nice addition...depends on how LJ wants him to play.

I still think we need that commanding DCM player more so now though.

If Flint goes, Wilbs gone, O'neil imo past it....who's going to be the Leader of men on the pitch? Who's got the experience and presence to lead the younger less experienced?

Smith? I'm not so sure. Who knows...maybe he will be the one. Hopefully he will be, but I have my doubts as to whether he can go a season.

Like you said though...very encouraging. Looking forward to the season and how we progress.