EmersonsRed Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, chipdawg said: Important word highlighted. Just because we wanted him to go to a L1 club doesn't mean it's going to happen. Cheltenham may have guaranteed playing time and he can train with us every week. L1 clubs probably wouldn't have made those guarantees. Maybe LJ did want to do his dad a favour, but given what's at stake in modern football I doubt that would be the primary motivation. Hinds is 18 and has never started a league game at any level. 4 months in L2 is fine Well he'll defo get a start, their strikers are shocking - he wont fit their style of play though... Hoof hoof hoof... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud55 Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Show Me The Money! said: I don't think you'd get anybody arguing that these players would be better off getting game time. I'm just amazed that we couldn't find a club in league 1 or upper league 2 to take them on. I get the point about setting up connections with lower league clubs and farming off players to them for game time. I'm just not convinced at all that GJ is the best coach for young players. But how many of them would allow the players to train with us? How many decent league 2 clubs lower league 1 clubs would have the terms we are likely to put in? There is a reason we got Tammy and it was that along with Chelsea being impressed by our plans for him also you aren't going to get top Championship sides essentially putting themselves in a position where they have an undroppable forward if he's not up to it, we were willing to take that risk. We are somewhat hamstrung by location, if we want players to stay with us for a good portion of the week where else can they go? the only viable alternative is Rovers, and would we really loan them players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 4 minutes ago, EmersonsRed said: Well he'll defo get a start, their strikers are shocking - he wont fit their style of play though... Hoof hoof hoof... I see little to nothing of Cheltenham, but would ask whether thats because going with hoofball is their best chance at the moment. But by adding Moore (meant to be a ball playing CB IIRC), Morrell and Hinds you have a bit of a spine, which would help them play the style of football that would work for Hinds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 Standard overeaction on here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 3 hours ago, RumRed said: Ridiculous, if I were Hinds or Moore I'd be looking for a way out asap. Not so sure about Morrell. Frankly, if either of them were doing that, it would say very disappointing things about their attitude. Hinds has been in and around the first team and must know we rate him and he is not far away from regular football. He could have held firm and refused the loan but he must know regular football is an opportunity to prove himself. It sounds like Moore isn't quite where we want him to be at the moment. One would hope he is mature enough to accept that and learn and improve. If any of the three players did not want to go on loan to Cheltenham, they could do what Engvall did and reject the offer. But if any of them are unhappy about it, the thing to do is not to throw a strop but knuckle down, excel and show us what we are missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Show Me The Money! Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 4 minutes ago, Spud55 said: But how many of them would allow the players to train with us? How many decent league 2 clubs lower league 1 clubs would have the terms we are likely to put in? There is a reason we got Tammy and it was that along with Chelsea being impressed by our plans for him also you aren't going to get top Championship sides essentially putting themselves in a position where they have an undroppable forward if he's not up to it, we were willing to take that risk. We are somewhat hamstrung by location, if we want players to stay with us for a good portion of the week where else can they go? the only viable alternative is Rovers, and would we really loan them players? Sorry, maybe my misunderstanding of how loans work. I'd have thought the players would be training with their new team mates and building those playing relationships than coming back to us to train. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Show Me The Money! Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, Super said: Standard overeaction on here! Wouldn't say its overeaction, just healthy debate. Plus gives everyone a break from the Flint thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said: I see little to nothing of Cheltenham, but would ask whether thats because going with hoofball is their best chance at the moment. But by adding Moore (meant to be a ball playing CB IIRC), Morrell and Hinds you have a bit of a spine, which would help them play the style of football that would work for Hinds. Indeed. GJ isn't particularly a hoofball manager so I would guess is he is playing a style that fits his resources. These three signings do not sound like an attempt to build a hoofball team but to change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View from the Dolman Posted August 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 7 minutes ago, Show Me The Money! said: Sorry, maybe my misunderstanding of how loans work. I'd have thought the players would be training with their new team mates and building those playing relationships than coming back to us to train. Depends on the agreement. The rules permit them to still spend time with us - including involvement in non-first team games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 21 minutes ago, EmersonsRed said: Well he'll defo get a start, their strikers are shocking - he wont fit their style of play though... Hoof hoof hoof... That's a different matter and I guess part of the problem with sending a lad to L2. But I'd rather he gets to start 20 games than spends half his time on the bench. Just don't see the need to rush Hinds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 GJ had a mixed record with making the best of loans when he was here and league two isn't ideal. There may be some benefit to all three going to the same club and to that club being local so we can keep in closer contact. As long as they get games it'll be fine. If they don't all start regularly it will look a bit silly. 4 months is a good length - long enough to make an impact and not so long as to waste a season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natchfever Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 34 minutes ago, Spud55 said: But how many of them would allow the players to train with us? How many decent league 2 clubs lower league 1 clubs would have the terms we are likely to put in? There is a reason we got Tammy and it was that along with Chelsea being impressed by our plans for him also you aren't going to get top Championship sides essentially putting themselves in a position where they have an undroppable forward if he's not up to it, we were willing to take that risk. We are somewhat hamstrung by location, if we want players to stay with us for a good portion of the week where else can they go? the only viable alternative is Rovers, and would we really loan them players? We didn't seem to mind Moore not training with us when he went on loan to league One Bury last season though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmersonsRed Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 30 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said: I see little to nothing of Cheltenham, but would ask whether thats because going with hoofball is their best chance at the moment. But by adding Moore (meant to be a ball playing CB IIRC), Morrell and Hinds you have a bit of a spine, which would help them play the style of football that would work for Hinds. I think it was you I spoke to in the pre-season friendly match thread about them. I watch Cheltenham a fair bit live due to work; always appalled as to what I'm watching... Nothing like the GJ teams we saw for the large majority of his time here. It would also seem they have signed Moore for right-back, judging by their forum. Not sure Morrell walks into their team, Freddie should though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 52 minutes ago, chipdawg said: Hinds never actually made a 1st team appearance for Luton, so it's not really a backwards step- this will be his first taste of regular 1st team football.We always seem in such a hurry to have players run before they can walk, let the kid get some confidence in L2 before we chuck him in to L1 or the Championship. If he bangs in 10 goals and comes back we'll have no trouble getting him a loan to League 1 or even start using him regularly in the Championship I realise that, although he did make a couple of cup appearances for them. I don't think he looked phased by playing for us - even against a PL side in the Kookaburra Cup or whatever its called these days. I just think he could do better than Cheltenham. And possibly would have, had it not been for the family tie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View from the Dolman Posted August 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 6 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said: I realise that, although he did make a couple of cup appearances for them. He came on in the 86th minute in two games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selred Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 45 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said: In terms of Morrell, it is definitely a good move and a chance to prove himself. I was initially unimpressed that Taylor Moore was going there but, reading through people's comments about his attitude and not impressing the coaching staff over the summer, this might be the shock he needs to realise he needs to up his game, combined of course with the benefits of regular games. Hinds is the one that frustrates me - he turned the game round at Brentford and apparently scored a cracker at Watford. I guess regular football is useful but I do think he could contribute to the first team. In terms of the fact they have joined Cheltenham, it is frustrating but it must be said that we are in a geographic position where there are not very many clubs you could join and still train with us a few days a week - which I would hope the players are doing. Of the teams in League One, we'd presumably not want to loan to Rovers and even Plymouth is a bit of a commute and then in League Two, we are pretty much talking Cheltenham, Newport, or Swindon (who again I would guess we prefer not to do business with) or Exeter at a push. Wouldn't personally say that Hinds turned around the game at Brentford, being personally honest I didn't even realise he came on (was in the 80th minute wasn't it?). He did however look very good at Watford, but naive, raw. We have Taylor coming back to fitness, Woodrow in, and Leko can play up top. Personally 4 months of regular football will do the kid wonders! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 3 minutes ago, View from the Dolman said: He came on in the 86th minute in two games. I'm not arguing he was an experienced player, merely that a better loan could almost certainly have been made. Hopefully he'll shine at Cheltenham. The competition isn't going to be too fierce. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redapple Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 Anyone willing to summarise what OTIB users reckon to this news as I can't be arsed to read 4 pages. For what it's worth I reckon it's good for all parties concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 15 minutes ago, EmersonsRed said: I think it was you I spoke to in the pre-season friendly match thread about them. I watch Cheltenham a fair bit live due to work; always appalled as to what I'm watching... Nothing like the GJ teams we saw for the large majority of his time here. It would also seem they have signed Moore for right-back, judging by their forum. Not sure Morrell walks into their team, Freddie should though. It was me, I think. I remembered talking to someone about them on that thread, and you seem to know about them so I am assuming it was you as my memory is dreadful (a particularly forgetful goldfish would be told they have the memory of a JamesBCFC) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carey 6 Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 Thought Plymouth were in for Moore. Disappointing to see him drop to league 2. I don't understand the hype around Morrell. Not seen much of him but reminds me of Kilkenny at a lower standard. Hopefully be proved wrong on that, we'll see if he fights his way to the top of Cheltenhams centre midfield pile and manages to start any games. Hinds has looked so impressive the few times we've seen him this season. Think this move is best for him, no real experience in the league yet but hopefully goes straight into their team Saturday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 20 minutes ago, Selred said: Wouldn't personally say that Hinds turned around the game at Brentford, being personally honest I didn't even realise he came on (was in the 80th minute wasn't it?). He did however look very good at Watford, but naive, raw. We have Taylor coming back to fitness, Woodrow in, and Leko can play up top. Personally 4 months of regular football will do the kid wonders! I forget which minute he came from but I certainly noted that it was immediately followed by us going from being on the backfoot to far and away the most likely team to score. It could be there is an element of coincidence (and there was a Brentford injury around the same time) but I certainly think he gave us something we had been missing up until that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 27 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said: I realise that, although he did make a couple of cup appearances for them. I don't think he looked phased by playing for us - even against a PL side in the Kookaburra Cup or whatever its called these days. I just think he could do better than Cheltenham. And possibly would have, had it not been for the family tie. Possibly. I just don't think LJ would have risked a players development to help out Daddy. Perhaps GJ gave guarantees over playing time, plus the proximity to Bristol means we can keep him training with us. I agree that's a Hinds looks like a real prospect, but I don't see a problem with giving him 20 games in L2 to start off with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 7 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said: I forget which minute he came from but I certainly noted that it was immediately followed by us going from being on the backfoot to far and away the most likely team to score. It could be there is an element of coincidence (and there was a Brentford injury around the same time) but I certainly think he gave us something we had been missing up until that point. Didnt Hinds start the cup match? Reid came on at HT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelts Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 3 hours ago, Red-Robbo said: Have to disagree, Spud. If Hinds needed development at L2 level he might as well have stayed at Luton. He's clearly a prospect and has seized the chance of imposing himself on the two cup games he played. This just smacks of "doing a favour for dad". Football is full of favours and it does look like nepotism even though there are some plus points. I thought Hinds has announced himself as a find and had got into the mix. Then we loan Woodrow with Hinds going to Cheltenham. I'm lost !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Rich Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 Assuming they're going to be able to train with us once/twice a week (as we have agreed with Cheltenham before), then this is makes sense. They'll get game time and still be around the club- frankly we probably wouldn't get that anywhere else. + hopefully bonds the three lads together through share experience /support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiderEyed Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 Quelle ******* surpis. Seriously though, It's a reasonable move, I'm happy enough with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 10 minutes ago, shelts said: Football is full of favours and it does look like nepotism even though there are some plus points. I thought Hinds has announced himself as a find and had got into the mix. Then we loan Woodrow with Hinds going to Cheltenham. I'm lost !! Indeed. We have two strikers injured and another two not up-to-speed. Seems odd timing for a loan. I'd rather see him on the bench. He knows where the goal is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelts Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 3 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said: Indeed. We have two strikers injured and another two not up-to-speed. Seems odd timing for a loan. I'd rather see him on the bench. He knows where the goal is. I agree on the bench and when getting on busting a gutt to impress . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View from the Dolman Posted August 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 3 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said: Indeed. We have two strikers injured and another two not up-to-speed. Seems odd timing for a loan. I'd rather see him on the bench. He knows where the goal is. But it's timing within the boundaries. We could wait until the end of September or whenever but then it's just the Conference available to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiled Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 Estimated club turnover 2016/17: Chelsea £335M Bristol City £15M Cheltenham £2M Personally, I think Tammy took a bigger risk! Would love to see Morrell, Hinds and Moore all do well at Cheltenham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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