Any realist out there?

[Robbored]

2 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

If he has to take responsibility for the poor run then he is also responsible for the good run that took us to 2nd spot in the first place. And since the good bit quite clearly outweighs the bad bit (7th spot, 16 wins v 9 defeats) do you think this comment is a fair assessment of our manager’s performance this season? Or do you think it shows obvious bias against him without a fair and balanced assessment of our overall progress?

I look forward to hearing from you.

Excellent reply CR, but I doubt you'll get a response.

[ChippenhamRed]

Oh and by the way everyone...we are 7th in the league, level on points with 5th, with a favourable run-in of games, and nearly all the teams around us (Millwall aside) dropping points regularly. Promotion remains a possibility. Last season we finished 17th, battled relegation for most of the campaign, and lost our top scorer and best player at the end of the year.

Anyone who doesn’t think that’s progress and can’t find it within them to acknowledge the giant strides we’ve made this year is clearly a fool in my book.

 

[Rob k]

9 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I think the vast majority on here are really hoping we turn in a result like this.

Some arnt that’s a fact 

[Gifford]

I would have been really happy with 15th at the start of the season. 

Now in the position we are in, I'm hoping that we can give all these giant clubs a good challenge in the race for the playoffs.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

1 hour ago, Bri Stool City said:

He really had a rubbish transfer window, probably ltd by the money man. We didn't and still don't have enough exp replacements to cover injuries/suspensions, that's why we are not above Cardiff (which is where we easily should be); All down to management which ever way you look at it....., the players don't bring themselves here.

Did you think so at the time though?  I recall people being rather happy with the acquisition of Walsh, Kent and Diony...

[chinapig]

1 hour ago, Bri Stool City said:

He really had a rubbish transfer window, probably ltd by the money man. We didn't and still don't have enough exp replacements to cover injuries/suspensions, that's why we are not above Cardiff (which is where we easily should be); All down to management which ever way you look at it....., the players don't bring themselves here.

I remain surprised how many fans still don't know what the club's strategy is as it's been explained often enough.

Some people may not like the strategy and want the 'money men' to splash the cash on experienced players (despite that approach failing before and getting us into financial difficulty) but that is going to block the path for the likes of Kelly.

So it isn't going to happen, however much some crave a bench of journeymen happy to get another signing on fee.

[General Zod]

1 hour ago, ChippenhamRed said:

If he has to take responsibility for the poor run then he is also responsible for the good run that took us to 2nd spot in the first place. And since the good bit quite clearly outweighs the bad bit (7th spot, 16 wins v 9 defeats) do you think this comment is a fair assessment of our manager’s performance this season? Or do you think it shows obvious bias against him without a fair and balanced assessment of our overall progress?

I look forward to hearing from you.

He did take responsibility for the good run as he was all over the press telling anyone who’d listen and it felt a bit too much like self promotion.  It was the same the previous year when we got off to a good start. This is my big problem with LJ as an individual.  I know it’s the modern world but I don’t like it.  He hasn’t enough on his CV yet to warrant the smoke that gets blown up him by both everyone connected to the club and himself when things are going well and then when it doesn’t go great he starts to look silly.  At this stage in his career he needs to realise he’s not achieved anything of purpose as a manager yet and just keep his head down and work hard for the club and himself and eventually the rewards and accolades will come independently without him or the club telling the world.

[Beni71]

12 hours ago, Top Robin said:

The truth hurts and some people need to wake up and smell the coffee instead of living in some fluffy rose tinted world.

We have cocked up this season and AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME we are not improving but are actually getting worse compared to earlier on this season. 

In the next few games we may well improve and get a play off spot but until then I will not pretend that we are a club on the rise coz we ain't.

Some people are so obsessed with Bristol City that they can't bear to hear any criticism. 

I don’t personally have a problem with a criticism, when it’s warranted. May be our expectations are different but over the last three seasons we have finished 18th/17th and are currently 7th. 

Over the course of the season to date we have improved, we aren’t consistent but more recently we put in a great performance vs Fulham followed by lousy performances against Burton and Barnsley. I don’t think any die hard City fan would suggest we are the finished article but there is improvement.

I guess your not an LJ fan but like the squad he is inexperienced and learning. By his own admission he has made mistakes and will continue to do so. In my view he has taken a group of relatively unknown players and made them into a ‘good’ championship side. That takes knowledge, leadership and some know how.

if I look just above us at Derby, Middlesbrough, Villa. Arguably far more experienced managers, greater budgets, higher wages, big clubs that will attract the big names. When I compare them to little old Bristol City we aren’t doing too bad. I imagine some Derby fans are messaging similar to yours and probably have good cause given their recent form. No win in 8 but prior to that one defeat in 15. 

50/50 on whether we make the play offs for me. I personally am optimistic for the future.

[RidgeRed]

18 minutes ago, General Zod said:

He did take responsibility for the good run as he was all over the press telling anyone who’d listen and it felt a bit too much like self promotion.  It was the same the previous year when we got off to a good start. This is my big problem with LJ as an individual.  I know it’s the modern world but I don’t like it.  He hasn’t enough on his CV yet to warrant the smoke that gets blown up him by both everyone connected to the club and himself when things are going well and then when it doesn’t go great he starts to look silly.  At this stage in his career he needs to realise he’s not achieved anything of purpose as a manager yet and just keep his head down and work hard for the club and himself and eventually the rewards and accolades will come independently without him or the club telling the world.

Reasonable view, IMO, though I think it was not just a bit of self- promotion but promoting the club as one that's "on its way, getting it right" (sorry if that sounds like the Gas!!). Another massive losing run would have made us & LJ look daft but, thankfully, we've picked up points here & there & stayed in contention. He's still in credit for me. So often we hear "it's a results business" but it is true. Let's hope we get them in this final handful of games then see where LJ can take us.

[chinapig]

2 minutes ago, Beni71 said:

I don’t personally have a problem with a criticism, when it’s warranted. May be our expectations are different but over the last three seasons we have finished 18th/17th and are currently 7th. 

Over the course of the season to date we have improved, we aren’t consistent but more recently we put in a great performance vs Fulham followed by lousy performances against Burton and Barnsley. I don’t think any die hard City fan would suggest we are the finished article but there is improvement.

I guess your not an LJ fan but like the squad he is inexperienced and learning. By his own admission he has made mistakes and will continue to do so. In my view he has taken a group of relatively unknown players and made them into a ‘good’ championship side. That takes knowledge, leadership and some know how.

if I look just above us at Derby, Middlesbrough, Villa. Arguably far more experienced managers, greater budgets, higher wages, big clubs that will attract the big names. When I compare them to little old Bristol City we aren’t doing too bad. I imagine some Derby fans are messaging similar to yours and probably have good cause given their recent form. No win in 8 but prior to that one defeat in 15. 

50/50 on whether we make the play offs for me. I personally am optimistic for the future.

Check the Derby forum and you will find a lot of criticism of Rowett. Some want him replaced by Warnock.

On the Villa forum you will find criticism of Bruce's gung ho substitutions and his inability to make a difference when the team is playing badly.

Seem familiar at all?

Football fans eh? 

[Swede]

I'm realistic; I've stated or more than one occasion that we'd finish 8th or 9th and that represents a terrific season.

There is no doubt that the cup run has distorted general opinion but for me gradual progress equals better sustainability at a higher level.

The Brighton blueprint is what we need to be judged by.

Next season the squad will have had another year's experience at this level but the key for me is improving the squad despite the inevitable loss of one or two players, that will be the key and the real measure of the coaching staff.

I feel sure once Bobby Reid hits 20 goals that will attract interest.

Who can deny Flint a crack at the Premier League at his age?

Joe Bryan will inevitably draw a lot of interest and Brownhill too in my opinion.

 

Now we have Freddie Hinds, (we'll have to recruit a centre back) Lloyd Kelly, Joe Morrell and Liam Walsh to step up but are they all ready? And we will need to recruit still further to improve on this season and to be better than this season we will need mentally tougher and better quality through the spine of the team.

A top quality centre back, a game changing midfielder who dictates play and a 20 goal plus striker. (That's all!)

I can foresee our transfer records both in and out of the club being broken again.

It really is an exciting time to be a Bristol City fan.

[reddoh]

12 hours ago, mozo said:

If we beat Brentford 3-0 people might start feeling warm and fuzzy again...

please

before you start feeling warm and funny again make sure you have their consent

[Gert Mare]

I would be over the moon if we beat Brentford today. How we escaped with a point up there when we were absolutely battered is beyond me? 

With Flint back in the team we have a chance to start winning a few games, but we are so terribly out of form I see a draw at best which isn’t good enough.

I still think we will finish 10th, which is an improvement on last season, but the the way we have imploded yet again is massively concerning, and trying to paper over the cracks with beating Man Utd is not floating my boat.

I am deeply concerned that we will go backwards next season, but let’s wait and see what happens. 

Nobody has got a crystal ball.

Your glass is either half empty or half full, but when you have spent years supporting City you generally have a feeling for how it will go....peaks and troughs.

[reddoh]

1 minute ago, Cheesleysmate said:

I would be over the moon if we beat Brentford today. How we escaped with a point up there when we were absolutely battered is beyond me? 

With Flint back in the team we have a chance to start winning a few games, but we are so terribly out of form I see a draw at best which isn’t good enough.

I still think we will finish 10th, which is an improvement on last season, but the the way we have imploded yet again is massively concerning, and trying to paper over the cracks with beating Man Utd is not floating my boat.

I am deeply concerned that we will go backwards next season, but let’s wait and see what happens. 

Nobody has got a crystal ball.

Your glass is either half empty or half full, but when you have spent years supporting City you generally have a feeling for how it will go....peaks and troughs.

what f in glass?

[Gert Mare]

4 minutes ago, reddoh said:

what f in glass?

Mine is always half empty supporting City. If we don’t make the playoffs it will be empty, then another one, and another, and another, and another until the last one goes at the TV screen re-running the ‘classic’ City v Man U game.

[reddoh]

1 minute ago, Cheesleysmate said:

Mine is always half empty supporting City. If we don’t make the playoffs it will be empty, then another one, and another, and another, and another until the last one goes at the TV screen re-running the ‘classic’ City v Man U game.

prefer Tinnons Liverpool I believe that was better but the one I think I will put top is BCFC 3.1 chelsea packed in the open end unable to move cold rain dribbling down my back Dave, Bessant  looking a poor mans David James(I know different eras)

[Mr Popodopolous]

27 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Check the Derby forum and you will find a lot of criticism of Rowett. Some want him replaced by Warnock.

On the Villa forum you will find criticism of Bruce's gung ho substitutions and his inability to make a difference when the team is playing badly.

Seem familiar at all?

Football fans eh? 

IMO.

Rowett is tactically limited, and Derby's squad? Ain't as good as its billing merits.

Villa? Lot of 'names' from Championship and some aging PL.

In both cases, in terms of squad composition- quite a few players aged 29 and above- hardly clever squad building (especially in these times of FFP).

[ChippenhamRed]

33 minutes ago, RidgeRed said:

Reasonable view, IMO, though I think it was not just a bit of self- promotion but promoting the club as one that's "on its way, getting it right" (sorry if that sounds like the Gas!!). Another massive losing run would have made us & LJ look daft but, thankfully, we've picked up points here & there & stayed in contention. He's still in credit for me. So often we hear "it's a results business" but it is true. Let's hope we get them in this final handful of games then see where LJ can take us.

I find it remarkable that there is even a question of whether LJ is still in credit. We’re in 7th spot with a realistic play off shout! LJ’s record here is pretty much second to none. His win % is bettered only by previous managers who have benefited from managing in the third tier.

And before anyone says “so he should with the backing he’s had!”, perhaps stop to consider that the money spent is far more a reflection of the market in 2018 rather than the club suddenly deciding to splash the cash. No one was paying £10m for championship strikers in 2008 and our budget remains bottom half. It would be a bit like saying someone who bought a house in 2018 must have a bigger one than someone who bought one in 1995, because they spent three times as much on it. It doesn’t work like that.

[Davefevs]

@ChippenhamRed don’t really disagree with any of your post, but I still have some doubts.  The issues I had with him last season, he has learned from in most cases.  A few new ones have crept in, so be interesting to see how he handles these.

The couple of areas I think he needs to improve are:

1. Away from home - we’ve gone backwards from being one of the top couple of teams to one struggling to get much at all, coupled with poor performance.  I think some of that is arrogance that we can play the same home or away.

2. Recruitment - 2 aspects to this:

a. Successes / Failures of players brought in....winners and losers here for LJ, need to be more clinical here (not easy though)

b. embedding new players into the squad.  Too much over-egging (it’s Easter!) of incoming players, who then aren’t used.  Needs to tone it down to the media / fans.  This summer will be a watershed for some of those players he’s brought in, and will be reflect on him.  I accept recruitment isn’t done solely by LJ, but he has said more than once that he ultimately makes the decision!

So those are my doubts.  Lots of positive things too, but I’ll save those for a happy-clapper topic  

[chinapig]

18 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

IMO.

Rowett is tactically limited, and Derby's squad? Ain't as good as its billing merits.

Villa? Lot of 'names' from Championship and some aging PL.

In both cases, in terms of squad composition- quite a few players aged 29 and above- hardly clever squad building (especially in these times of FFP).

Quite, the kind of short termism that is typical of so many clubs. Derby seem to have two short term plans every season in fact!

We have been guilty of the same in the past yet some of our fans want to repeat the mistake, often in pursuit of the kind of aging 'names' you refer to.

[Bazooka Joe]

13 hours ago, Top Robin said:

The truth hurts and some people need to wake up and smell the coffee instead of living in some fluffy rose tinted world.

We have cocked up this season and AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME we are not improving but are actually getting worse compared to earlier on this season. 

In the next few games we may well improve and get a play off spot but until then I will not pretend that we are a club on the rise coz we ain't.

Some people are so obsessed with Bristol City that they can't bear to hear any criticism. 

 

13 hours ago, RedNight said:

You're so thick 

 

You're not doing yourself any favours by calling him thick.

[chinapig]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

@ChippenhamRed don’t really disagree with any of your post, but I still have some doubts.  The issues I had with him last season, he has learned from in most cases.  A few new ones have crept in, so be interesting to see how he handles these.

The couple of areas I think he needs to improve are:

1. Away from home - we’ve gone backwards from being one of the top couple of teams to one struggling to get much at all, coupled with poor performance.  I think some of that is arrogance that we can play the same home or away.

2. Recruitment - 2 aspects to this:

a. Successes / Failures of players brought in....winners and losers here for LJ, need to be more clinical here (not easy though)

b. embedding new players into the squad.  Too much over-egging (it’s Easter!) of incoming players, who then aren’t used.  Needs to tone it down to the media / fans.  This summer will be a watershed for some of those players he’s brought in, and will be reflect on him.  I accept recruitment isn’t done solely by LJ, but he has said more than once that he ultimately makes the decision!

So those are my doubts.  Lots of positive things too, but I’ll save those for a happy-clapper topic  

Agree with 1.

On 2. however I would not expect anything near a 100% success rate, especially when you are recruiting potential. Rather like the academy I would expect a high attrition rate.

If 50% work out and increase substantially in value you are doing ok, particularly as the wages paid will be relatively low at first.

Makes more sense to me than shelling out the fees and wages for 'proven' players when you will need to be much closer to 100% to make it viable and you run the risk of reduced or no sell on value.

[ChippenhamRed]

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

@ChippenhamRed don’t really disagree with any of your post, but I still have some doubts.  The issues I had with him last season, he has learned from in most cases.  A few new ones have crept in, so be interesting to see how he handles these.

The couple of areas I think he needs to improve are:

1. Away from home - we’ve gone backwards from being one of the top couple of teams to one struggling to get much at all, coupled with poor performance.  I think some of that is arrogance that we can play the same home or away.

2. Recruitment - 2 aspects to this:

a. Successes / Failures of players brought in....winners and losers here for LJ, need to be more clinical here (not easy though)

b. embedding new players into the squad.  Too much over-egging (it’s Easter!) of incoming players, who then aren’t used.  Needs to tone it down to the media / fans.  This summer will be a watershed for some of those players he’s brought in, and will be reflect on him.  I accept recruitment isn’t done solely by LJ, but he has said more than once that he ultimately makes the decision!

So those are my doubts.  Lots of positive things too, but I’ll save those for a happy-clapper topic  

Oh without doubt there are issues Dave! I don’t have my head in the sand. I just think some people need reminding of the wider picture.

And how many clubs have managers where there are no doubts or areas for criticism? How many managers have we had in our history where there haven’t been concerns of some sort or another?

I dare say if you log on to any forum of any club this year, you will find concerns and criticism of pretty much any manager - with the possible exception of Guardiola!

[Maltshoveller]

2 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Did you think so at the time though?  I recall people being rather happy with the acquisition of Walsh, Kent and Diony...

Spot on

[Davefevs]

12 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Agree with 1.

On 2. however I would not expect anything near a 100% success rate, especially when you are recruiting potential. Rather like the academy I would expect a high attrition rate.

If 50% work out and increase substantially in value you are doing ok, particularly as the wages paid will be relatively low at first.

Makes more sense to me than shelling out the fees and wages for 'proven' players when you will need to be much closer to 100% to make it viable and you run the risk of reduced or no sell on value.

I don’t expect 100% either  

I totally agree with the approach, and LJ tells us that they are "world beaters" (paraphrased)...but then doesn’t play them.

 

[MelksRed]

I don't think that our ability to Get to the Premier League is the issue.....it's if we would come straight back down the following season...

I'm hoping that, like last season, the final few games see us putting a little run together.....for us to at least give it a crack.

I wholeheartedly appreciate the improvement the team has made this season....I think that the string of losses we underwent last season has subsequently been a string of draws (still an improvement) but to be the other end of the table....no relegation battle (which is all I wanted at the start of the season) combined with a decent cup run will make this a decent season.

For me....it's been a frustrating season in part because I know we can play better in the games that we were not firing on all cylinders. 

COYRs.....let's have a win against Brentford....it'll be a large step towards the ultimate goal.....

[Rich]

I started the season making my tea a specific way, it was alright but needed improving, So, I made gradual changes until it was just how I wanted it. Always hot, strong enough and sweet enough, it was lovely. Then one day I ran out of tea bags, bought a different one but didn't get the satisfaction of the earlier teas. So, I bought a different tea, tried it in a different tea pot, stirred it this way, that way, let it brew longer, bought a different cup, tried various other teas, but, just couldn't repeat my earlier cuppa.

One day, I might try going back to the way I used to make it, if I could only remember how that was.

[Slack Bladder]

Of course some results recently have been disappointing, especially against the teams lower in the league, but win our next 2 games and a very different picture emerges.

We are definitely improving, our players are more comfortable on the ball, even Flinty.

The biggest worry I have, is the Reading situation, they were so close to promotion last season, then lost most of their best players in the summer and this season have struggled to rebuild. I hope this doesn't happen to us.

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, Rich said:

I started the season making my tea a specific way, it was alright but needed improving, So, I made gradual changes until it was just how I wanted it. Always hot, strong enough and sweet enough, it was lovely. Then one day I ran out of tea bags, bought a different one but didn't get the satisfaction of the earlier teas. So, I bought a different tea, tried it in a different tea pot, stirred it this way, that way, let it brew longer, bought a different cup, tried various other teas, but, just couldn't repeat my earlier cuppa.

One day, I might try going back to the way I used to make it, if I could only remember how that was.

You should’ve put it into a Powerpoint 

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

13 hours ago, General Zod said:

I think we were in a really good position to make it a two horse race with Cardiff for second and at the very least insure a top 6 finish.  I find our approach to January very frustrating but that’s the direction the club has chosen.  If I was a billionaire I’d do different but I’m not (life sucks) so it’s up to SL how he plays it and like I’ve said, at least the club has a plan even if I find it frustrating at times.  I do wonder if LJ had an experienced coach/director of football to bounce things off of things may have been different and our points tally higher at this stage but I don’t think LJ would have gone for that.  Maybe when his old man is up for it

But what about Villa and Fulham?  You can’t just discount other teams.  With a fully fit squad maybe we would have been in a better position, but I completely agree with the decision not to throw caution (and cash) to the wind in January.  The summer is when you do your significant strengthening.  January transfer windows are notorious for expensive rushed deals that do no good at all.  I think where we are is a good place to be.  We have a good shout at the play-offs (which if we’re honest, we’re unlikely to win), but then the opportunity to continue to develop over the summer.

It would be disingenuous to suggest I don’t want us to go up, but would it really be the best thing for our future?  We need to get to the Prem and stay there.