Any realist out there?

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

The main difference between this season's negative posters and last is that at least it's a whole less vitriolic and personal.

I think where the OP and a few others have missed the trend is that given any sticky patch like the one that has taken us from nailed on play off contenders to chasing the pack is that it's pretty much the same select group who step up to dominate the forum. There are a number of overt and covert posters who are determined to see Johnson fail, to inflict reputational damage on the Lansdowns and surround Mark Ashton in fake news. However, these posters are like the frost which only appears in the cold and melt away in warmer times. When things aren't going well, they seem to own the forum which may make it look like everyone is negative- unless , of course, you attend matches and see the reality.

Overall, OTIB and a (albeit small) majority of its members are pretty much like most football fans- expert Refs/Managers and Owners whose Gran "can run faster"  and whose three year old "would have scored that".

On the flip side there are those bi-ploar posters who after 2 or 3 wins on the bounce believe we're gonna win the League and then meltdown when we don't. 

[chinapig]

9 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t expect 100% either  

I totally agree with the approach, and LJ tells us that they are "world beaters" (paraphrased)...but then doesn’t play them.

 

Fair enough, he should tone the language down, though he is usually talking about potential rather than saying they are ready made.

Some will fall by the wayside but all will need patience. I recall many were writing O'Dowda off, now we miss him badly.

[BS10 RED]

14 hours ago, Top Robin said:

Inexperienced manager making the wrong calls 

 

I don't think inexperienced calls has anything to do with it. Maybe a little bit naive thinking we could cope with so many games with so many injuries but not inexperience. David Wagner was a manager of basically a reserve team for a couple of years. Then won promotion in his first year in a real managerial job in a different country may i add. So you don't need experience to get out of this league.

[Top Robin]

14 hours ago, RedNight said:

You're so thick 

Thanks for that Red...........I'm not sure how you measure thickness but I do have an MSc in Economics (done a few years ago admittedly) if that helps.

[Beni71]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

@ChippenhamRed don’t really disagree with any of your post, but I still have some doubts.  The issues I had with him last season, he has learned from in most cases.  A few new ones have crept in, so be interesting to see how he handles these.

The couple of areas I think he needs to improve are:

1. Away from home - we’ve gone backwards from being one of the top couple of teams to one struggling to get much at all, coupled with poor performance.  I think some of that is arrogance that we can play the same home or away.

2. Recruitment - 2 aspects to this:

a. Successes / Failures of players brought in....winners and losers here for LJ, need to be more clinical here (not easy though)

b. embedding new players into the squad.  Too much over-egging (it’s Easter!) of incoming players, who then aren’t used.  Needs to tone it down to the media / fans.  This summer will be a watershed for some of those players he’s brought in, and will be reflect on him.  I accept recruitment isn’t done solely by LJ, but he has said more than once that he ultimately makes the decision!

So those are my doubts.  Lots of positive things too, but I’ll save those for a happy-clapper topic  

I do think teams have found us out and our style of play (high pressing game) isn’t as sustainable over a long period and for some reason the winter months don’t suit us. Not sure we can blame heavy pitches but we lose fluency. 

I know LJ has spoken about a plan B but haven’t seen this materialise and is something LJ/team will need to develop. The Preston style of play doesn’t have our creativity but has more steel and resilience . They are 3rd in the league table for away performances. 

[downendcity]

I'm more of a Barcalonaist myself.

[chinapig]

15 minutes ago, Beni71 said:

I do think teams have found us out and our style of play (high pressing game) isn’t as sustainable over a long period and for some reason the winter months don’t suit us. Not sure we can blame heavy pitches but we lose fluency. 

I know LJ has spoken about a plan B but haven’t seen this materialise and is something LJ/team will need to develop. The Preston style of play doesn’t have our creativity but has more steel and resilience . They are 3rd in the league table for away performances. 

Preston are also top of the yellow cards league in England apparently. I suppose that is one definition of steel. 

 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Did you think so at the time though?  I recall people being rather happy with the acquisition of Walsh, Kent and Diony...

I thought wtf there are players already on our books who LJ wont play or who has loaned out elsewhere as good if not better than those 3.

Whats the point in having a development policy if we aren't going to play those already on the books; Engvall for example would he really not be better than Diony (anyone would be) if given a run out now and again same goes for the guys at Chelt etc;

Complete waste of money which could have been used better elsewhere.

[BCFC Rich]

9 minutes ago, Bri Stool City said:

I thought wtf there are players already on our books who LJ wont play or who has loaned out elsewhere as good if not better than those 3.

Whats the point in having a development policy if we aren't going to play those already on the books; Engvall for example would he really not be better than Diony (anyone would be) if given a run out now and again same goes for the guys at Chelt etc;

Complete waste of money which could have been used better elsewhere.

You were certain that a player who cost 9 million euros last summer, had a brilliant season in France last season, was from a a league set up we have a great record recruiting from was worse than all the other options we had? 

[Portland Bill]

18 hours ago, RedNight said:

Maybe it's my selective sight. But all I see on here and other social platforms is people complaining about us being bottle jobs and not worthy of the play offs. And at games themselves, very subdued atmospheres, hardly inspiring for anyone involved. 

Just wondering if there are many fans out there who recognise how far we have come this year and what an unreal season we've had, play offs or not. 

People love to hammer LJ, Ashton and the Lansdowns. But they are currently in the process of putting this club in its strongest position ever, both on and off the pitch. Joint 5th in the league and an academy and infrastructure that seems to be thriving. 

Yet all I see is people moan, moan and moan. 

Like this post if you are a realist who understands what a good place this club is in at the moment. Just to restore some faith in each other if nothing else...

Good realistic post,.

The point I would like to make though, is that about 2-3 months ago when the pundits on the tv were stating that Bristol City weren’t strong enough to stay in the top two, They were slated by this forum and basically told ‘ what do they know’! 

[Mr Popodopolous]

On 02/04/2018 at 14:25, Portland Bill said:

Good realistic post,.

The point I would like to make though, is that about 2-3 months ago when the pundits on the tv were stating that Bristol City weren’t strong enough to stay in the top two, They were slated by this forum and basically told ‘ what do they know’! 

To be fair, pundits aren't always right.

Went back and read various season previews for Championship... Quite a few of those I read, didn't even have Wolves as likely top 6!

[Meryl Goodrum]

On 01/04/2018 at 20:19, RedNight said:

Maybe it's my selective sight. But all I see on here and other social platforms is people complaining about us being bottle jobs and not worthy of the play offs. And at games themselves, very subdued atmospheres, hardly inspiring for anyone involved. 

Just wondering if there are many fans out there who recognise how far we have come this year and what an unreal season we've had, play offs or not. 

People love to hammer LJ, Ashton and the Lansdowns. But they are currently in the process of putting this club in its strongest position ever, both on and off the pitch. Joint 5th in the league and an academy and infrastructure that seems to be thriving. 

Yet all I see is people moan, moan and moan. 

Like this post if you are a realist who understands what a good place this club is in at the moment. Just to restore some faith in each other if nothing else...

Spot on.

 

[bristolcitysweden]

On 2018-04-01 at 21:19, RedNight said:

Maybe it's my selective sight. But all I see on here and other social platforms is people complaining about us being bottle jobs and not worthy of the play offs. And at games themselves, very subdued atmospheres, hardly inspiring for anyone involved. 

Just wondering if there are many fans out there who recognise how far we have come this year and what an unreal season we've had, play offs or not. 

People love to hammer LJ, Ashton and the Lansdowns. But they are currently in the process of putting this club in its strongest position ever, both on and off the pitch. Joint 5th in the league and an academy and infrastructure that seems to be thriving. 

Yet all I see is people moan, moan and moan. 

Like this post if you are a realist who understands what a good place this club is in at the moment. Just to restore some faith in each other if nothing else...

This season is panning out to nothing because of a number of abysmal performances starting with Sunderland at home.

The end of this season will be decisive for next season.

Shall the fans give up as well? All teams got minor injuries. Not just us. The problem is no drive. A lame dick.

WE NEED A CENTRAL MIDFIELDER CAPABLE OF DICTATING A GAME.  

 

[1960maaan]

On 01/04/2018 at 20:19, RedNight said:

Maybe it's my selective sight. But all I see on here and other social platforms is people complaining about us being bottle jobs and not worthy of the play offs. And at games themselves, very subdued atmospheres, hardly inspiring for anyone involved. 

To be fair, for around 3 months there has been little to cheer although fans for the most have tried.

Just wondering if there are many fans out there who recognise how far we have come this year and what an unreal season we've had, play offs or not. 

Unreal is right, Good to brilliant to poor. Last year it was 8 defeats on the trot , this year the 8 were interrupted by a draw and a win.... it's progress  

People love to hammer LJ, Ashton and the Lansdowns. But they are currently in the process of putting this club in its strongest position ever, both on and off the pitch. Joint 5th in the league and an academy and infrastructure that seems to be thriving. 

Personally, I think SL has been unbelievable for the club. There are things I haven't been happy with, but the ground, infrastructure , money spent on transfers , the academy finally bearing fruit , the list goes on. He has put us in a position we could only dream about a few short years ago. To be thinking seriously about playoffs/Prem when 4 years ago we were looking at a real possibility of Div 2 football.

Yet all I see is people moan, moan and moan. 

The thing about forums is people tend to go on them to vent , I ignore moaners I don't agree with (mostly) , what gets me going more are the unbelievably optimistic, the unrealistic? (this is not aimed at you btw)

Like this post if you are a realist who understands what a good place this club is in at the moment. Just to restore some faith in each other if nothing else...

If it wasn't for the massive peaks and troughs we could all be happy where we are, and could have enjoyed getting here but, and here's the realism, we have been poor for 3 months. 3 wins in 19 and culminating in one of the worst performances of this or many seasons. 50 shots at our goal in 2 games  while managing 2 on target ourselves is woeful. Yes , if you look in isolation our League position is good, but this thread is about realists so as I said above. 3 wins in 19 , in 2018 15 points from 15 games and average that out over the season we would be 18th and 6 points off of the relegation zone . That's pretty real. 
Again those massive peaks of good form and troughs of bad mean peoples view of the season veer from chuffed to angry very quickly, knee jerk? May be, but also understandable to a point. The truth about the season will only be found out after it ends, we are unlikely to make the Play offs, even less likely to win them. That probably means teams will be sniffing around our players, which in turn could mean the need to rebuild too, with our hit and miss recruitment that won't fill many with confidence.  We are undoubtably in a better position than ever, but we have probably missed an opportunity whether by design or bad planning. We will probably finish about where I hoped we would, and in contention for a playoff spot which I also hoped we would. The way we have got here means it is hard to be pleased, we have been so good at times the poor looks even poorer and it's frustrating. If we could somehow finish the season on a small high, win a few games , even if we eventually miss out it will but a smile on faces and maybe give some optimism for next year. All I hope for is more progress next year and to stop these horrendous loosing runs.

 

[BTRFTG]

On 02/04/2018 at 13:41, Bri Stool City said:

Engvall for example would he really not be better than Diony (anyone would be)

No and if you want it in a one word answer: Pace.

Diony has shown (will show) nothing with us as we don't play his game. On the rare occasion he's played he's shown once or twice lightening quick anticipation and a very good knowledge of where to run. His problem, he's in a side none of whom have the ability to play to his strengths. At Burton and after his second 'turn and go' he simply gave up knowing he'd never get the ball on his terms. Only mystery is why we signed him in the first place? Odd then that if there is one player in our squad who could make it at Premier level he'd be it - but it won't be with us. Pace is priceless and given service he'd scare the life out of all but the best centre halfs.

Engvall on the other hand is 100% dross.  Nearer Savage than Torpey but a whole lot more expensive than either.

 

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

No and if you want it in a one word answer: Pace.

Diony has shown (will show) nothing with us as we don't play his game. On the rare occasion he's played he's shown once or twice lightening quick anticipation and a very good knowledge of where to run. His problem, he's in a side none of whom have the ability to play to his strengths. At Burton and after his second 'turn and go' he simply gave up knowing he'd never get the ball on his terms. Only mystery is why we signed him in the first place? Odd then that if there is one player in our squad who could make it at Premier level he'd be it - but it won't be with us. Pace is priceless and given service he'd scare the life out of all but the best centre halfs.

Engvall on the other hand is 100% dross.  Nearer Savage than Torpey but a whole lot more expensive than either.

 

In some respects Kodjia was similar.  LJ said he had the football maturity of a 18 year old.  I never thought that was fair, I just thought we didn’t have players to exploit his runs - there was a reason he got caught offside!  In the 15/16 season I saw only two players on his wavelength.  Tomlin, the obvious one.  Callum Robinson, the less obvious one.

I think you are right, we don’t have the players or system / style to suit Diony.

[Crisis what Crisis ?]

2 hours ago, bristolcitysweden said:

This season is panning out to nothing because of a number of abysmal performances starting with Sunderland at home.

The end of this season will be decisive for next season.

Shall the fans give up as well? All teams got minor injuries. Not just us. The problem is no drive. A lame dick.

WE NEED A CENTRAL MIDFIELDER CAPABLE OF DICTATING A GAME.  

 

....perhaps this is what they really mean when they call someone a 'lame duck' president ?

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

In some respects Kodjia was similar.  LJ said he had the football maturity of a 18 year old.  I never thought that was fair, I just thought we didn’t have players to exploit his runs - there was a reason he got caught offside!  In the 15/16 season I saw only two players on his wavelength.  Tomlin, the obvious one.  Callum Robinson, the less obvious one.

I think you are right, we don’t have the players or system / style to suit Diony.

Then why did LJ BRING HIM HERE? and Engvall and Kent and, and......also dropping his latest 3 signings into a settled team was a mistake and seems to have upset the apple cart, when it seems we had already players here who he....didn`t fancy?

[BTRFTG]

7 minutes ago, Bri Stool City said:

Then why did LJ BRING HIM HERE? and Engvall and Kent and, and......also dropping his latest 3 signings into a settled team was a mistake and seems to have upset the apple cart, when it seems we had already players here who he....didn`t fancy?

On Engvall we know - "panic buy" according to WeeLee. As to your other questions , they're firmly in the "Bob Wilson, Anchorman?" category and we await WeeLee's end of season analysis with interest.

[Davefevs]

31 minutes ago, Bri Stool City said:

Then why did LJ BRING HIM HERE? and Engvall and Kent and, and......also dropping his latest 3 signings into a settled team was a mistake and seems to have upset the apple cart, when it seems we had already players here who he....didn`t fancy?

Because the others players he brought in weren’t cutting it, Diedhiou and Djúric were returning from injury and not guaranteed to pick up another....So was left with Reid.

On paper and Youtube, it looked a good signing....they’d been watching him for 18 months.

Sometimes it doesn’t work out.

[1960maaan]

TBF bringing in Diony was probably an easy risk to take. St, E paid £9m for him a year ago, obviously a player there somewhere, just hasn’t done it there. If we got favourable terms then it could be good for both clubs. If we got him playing well we have a good player for the rest of the season and they either get a few or a more confident player back, or they just get him back if it didn’t work. I agree with @Davefevs you have a player that looks to play on the shoulder ( like Kodjia) but we never seem to play that ball, I said that a lot when Kodjia joined , we never made the most of it. Strange that on the edge of the box BR is always looking for that ball, we just don’t do it further out with space behind. That said Diony has looked completely lost at times, doesn’t help coming into a side devoid of confidence and struggling for form.

[Anglo-Welsh]

On 4/1/2018 at 20:19, RedNight said:

Maybe it's my selective sight. But all I see on here and other social platforms is people complaining about us being bottle jobs and not worthy of the play offs. And at games themselves, very subdued atmospheres, hardly inspiring for anyone involved. 

Just wondering if there are many fans out there who recognise how far we have come this year and what an unreal season we've had, play offs or not. 

People love to hammer LJ, Ashton and the Lansdowns. But they are currently in the process of putting this club in its strongest position ever, both on and off the pitch. Joint 5th in the league and an academy and infrastructure that seems to be thriving. 

Yet all I see is people moan, moan and moan. 

Like this post if you are a realist who understands what a good place this club is in at the moment. Just to restore some faith in each other if nothing else...

Valid points about current league position and the new stadium, investment etc. but for me, the recent season ticket debacle, generally dire atmosphere, off pitch experience and current form doesn't inspire me.

[Major Isewater]

Football is not for ' realists ' it is the sport of dreams and romance without which the game would die.

[BS4 on Tour...]

15 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Football is not for ' realists ' it is the sport of dreams and romance without which the game would die.

Absolutely Maj - spot on old bean.....if we were realists, Ashton Gate would have been empty for the game against Man City, we were never going to beat them, but we all just hoped something amazing might occur...

[Trueredsupporter]

On ‎02‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 13:18, Beni71 said:

I do think teams have found us out and our style of play (high pressing game) isn’t as sustainable over a long period and for some reason the winter months don’t suit us. Not sure we can blame heavy pitches but we lose fluency. 

I know LJ has spoken about a plan B but haven’t seen this materialise and is something LJ/team will need to develop. The Preston style of play doesn’t have our creativity but has more steel and resilience . They are 3rd in the league table for away performances. 

This legendary high pressing game has not been played over a long period. The team clearly is playing differently isn't it? 

[joeyb]

On 02/04/2018 at 11:03, ChippenhamRed said:

I find it remarkable that there is even a question of whether LJ is still in credit. We’re in 7th spot with a realistic play off shout! LJ’s record here is pretty much second to none. His win % is bettered only by previous managers who have benefited from managing in the third tier.

And before anyone says “so he should with the backing he’s had!”, perhaps stop to consider that the money spent is far more a reflection of the market in 2018 rather than the club suddenly deciding to splash the cash. No one was paying £10m for championship strikers in 2008 and our budget remains bottom half. It would be a bit like saying someone who bought a house in 2018 must have a bigger one than someone who bought one in 1995, because they spent three times as much on it. It doesn’t work like that.

If you adjusted this for win % at Championship level, LJ would be our best manager by win % for 20 years. 44% at any level is actually very good (until you reach the heights of Real Madrid, Barca, Juve, Bayern etc).

[joeyb]

On 05/04/2018 at 18:56, bristolcitysweden said:

This season is panning out to nothing because of a number of abysmal performances starting with Sunderland at home.

The end of this season will be decisive for next season.

Shall the fans give up as well? All teams got minor injuries. Not just us. The problem is no drive. A lame dick.

WE NEED A CENTRAL MIDFIELDER CAPABLE OF DICTATING A GAME.  

 

Do you ever post even a marginally balanced view? We haven't had minor injuries this season. Steve Allen (Head Physio) has said it's been his toughest year in this work; that's with 25 years + experience.

I'm not necessarily blaming the injuries because our best form was in fact when we were in the worst stage with regards to injuries. But I do believe, the players have run out of steam somewhat - with the injuries playing a big part in this.

[havanatopia]

On 06/04/2018 at 01:56, bristolcitysweden said:

This season is panning out to nothing because of a number of abysmal performances starting with Sunderland at home.

The end of this season will be decisive for next season.

Shall the fans give up as well? All teams got minor injuries. Not just us. The problem is no drive. A lame dick.

WE NEED A CENTRAL MIDFIELDER CAPABLE OF DICTATING A GAME.  

 

You usually talk a load of beverage induced jibberish but I have to say, unusually, I am agreeing with you wholeheartedly here squire.

[KeepUpLino]

On 01/04/2018 at 22:08, RedNight said:

Absolutely right. Johnson should take responsibility for taking us from a relegation beckoned team, to one fighting for play offs.

LJ doing a superb job. 

Not forgetting he masterminded a win against Man U and gave Man City two tough games 

Are you sure about that?

[AshtonGreat]

On 01/04/2018 at 21:31, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Why on earth should we be able to do that?  We have had a very busy season, with a congested fixture list and an incredible injury list, and yet we are level on points with two teams in the play-offs.  This time last season we were in dire risk of relegation and were about to be beaten 0-5 by Preston.  How anyone can fail to see this season as progress absolutely defeats me.  

 

.

We haven't had an 'incredible' injury list