The idea that the club are not ready for promotion this season

[exAtyeoMax]

11 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Kent is a young lad. Was Macmanaman a clas act at 19? 

I can only assume that GoN was on the bench because he's still not ready and I agree 100% that it was a mad idea by LJ to leave out Pack and play Walsh instead with Wright at LB with Kelly on the bench.................

A major error in team selection. Worrying too much about the opposition.

Ray Wilkins was captain of Chelsea at 18. 

[Jack Dawe]

2 hours ago, CyderInACan said:

 

Why oh why wasn't GON on the bench on Monday with Pack playing. Walsh starting was a madness. 

"We are set up for the long term and not specifically targetting promotion this season" is what MA "confirmed" to the Post in February. In the absence of any statements from the club to the contrary, I would've thought that the signing of Walsh, and the selection of Walsh v Brentford, with a play-off place there to compete for, is evidence of MA's reported words in action.

LJ is head coach largely because he is SL's best bet and most trusted to implement SL's "pillars" and new approach, post relegation in 2013. LJ is charged with keeping more than one plate spinning at any one time: a winning team and signing and development of young talent (before they become established and so expensive) and keeping the "pathway" from academy to first team open and busy. LJ has to manage today, and tomorrow.

It's a big ask, but that's what SL demands.

What SL wants is success on the pitch and sustainability throughout the club. For this, we need kids like Walsh to blossom and they cannot do that sat on the bench/appearing as a sub for 5 mins/playing for the U23s.

Because we are not specifically targetting promotion this season - and are in no danger of relegation - this is seen as an ideal opportunity to get Walsh some games. So that when we are specifically targetting promotion, we are doing so with a prudently assembled team of home grown academy lads, talent from elsewhere identified early and nurtured by ourselves, and bargains picked up from overseas. Along with any good deals from amongst our peers as and when they arise, such as Baker. Or, er, Bailey Wright.

Unfortunately, while we go about trialling/trying to make a go of this "philosophy," there's going to be a few occasions where we look half-hearted, unambitious, and not interested in what seems to be there for the taking.

But while most fans are mostly pre-occupied with the "winning on the pitch/getting into the PL" bit, the bloke that owns the place and calls the shots - SL - has twin pre-occupations. Winning and sustainability.

We are going to have to be patient, we are going to have to wait, and probably see more "Liam Walshs" introduced without knowing for sure whether all this will ever result in the success those that lost their rag Monday - and most of us - so desire.

 

But it's a lot better than 2016/17. Or 2015/16. Or 20.........

[Robbored]

34 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

Ray Wilkins was captain of Chelsea at 18. 

Ray Wilkins was a special bloke and player. Matured before most guys

[Major Isewater]

23 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

"We are set up for the long term and not specifically targetting promotion this season" is what MA "confirmed" to the Post in February. In the absence of any statements from the club to the contrary, I would've thought that the signing of Walsh, and the selection of Walsh v Brentford, with a play-off place there to compete for, is evidence of MA's reported words in action.

LJ is head coach largely because he is SL's best bet and most trusted to implement SL's "pillars" and new approach, post relegation in 2013. LJ is charged with keeping more than one plate spinning at any one time: a winning team and signing and development of young talent (before they become established and so expensive) and keeping the "pathway" from academy to first team open and busy. LJ has to manage today, and tomorrow.

It's a big ask, but that's what SL demands.

What SL wants is success on the pitch and sustainability throughout the club. For this, we need kids like Walsh to blossom and they cannot do that sat on the bench/appearing as a sub for 5 mins/playing for the U23s.

Because we are not specifically targetting promotion this season - and are in no danger of relegation - this is seen as an ideal opportunity to get Walsh some games. So that when we are specifically targetting promotion, we are doing so with a prudently assembled team of home grown academy lads, talent from elsewhere identified early and nurtured by ourselves, and bargains picked up from overseas. Along with any good deals from amongst our peers as and when they arise, such as Baker. Or, er, Bailey Wright.

Unfortunately, while we go about trialling/trying to make a go of this "philosophy," there's going to be a few occasions where we look half-hearted, unambitious, and not interested in what seems to be there for the taking.

But while most fans are mostly pre-occupied with the "winning on the pitch/getting into the PL" bit, the bloke that owns the place and calls the shots - SL - has twin pre-occupations. Winning and sustainability.

We are going to have to be patient, we are going to have to wait, and probably see more "Liam Walshs" introduced without knowing for sure whether all this will ever result in the success those that lost their rag Monday - and most of us - so desire.

 

But it's a lot better than 2016/17. Or 2015/16. Or 20.........

I can't imagine a day, ever , when the club will come out and say ' this year we are targetting promotion ' and genuinely mean it .

That said if we aren't now when there is an outside chance when will we ? 

If you aren't specifically trying to get promoted what are you trying to do ? 

Aiming for mid table ? Avoid relegation ? 

Hardly the dynamic to advance the club is it ?

To quote a text from the dressing room wall 

" If not now , when ?

if not you , then who ? "

 

[Jack Dawe]

14 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

I can't imagine a day, ever , when the club will come out and say ' this year we are targetting promotion ' and genuinely mean it .

That said if we aren't now when there is an outside chance when will we ? 

If you aren't specifically trying to get promoted what are you trying to do ? 

Aiming for mid table ? Avoid relegation ? 

Hardly the dynamic to advance the club is it ?

To quote a text from the dressing room wall 

" If not now , when ?

if not you , then who ? "

 

I don't know, Major. I'm just trying to broaden the debate with an attempt to understand what the club are thinking. What might be meant by the quiet January t.w., by MA's reported confirmation in February, and by the selection of Walsh over established/experienced players.

The club has advanced, though. We're now all in a pisser because we're spilling a chance to play off for the Prem, whereas before it was a pisser over possible relegation back to L1, and before that, dabbling with relegation to L2. The "dynamic" has brought us this far; whether it can take us from here to promotion, I don't know. Nobody knows.

Meanwhile, we have to wait, not something many football fans have much tolerance for, and see.

[Curr Avon]

24 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

I can't imagine a day, ever , when the club will come out and say ' this year we are targetting promotion ' and genuinely mean it .

That said if we aren't now when there is an outside chance when will we ? 

If you aren't specifically trying to get promoted what are you trying to do ? 

Aiming for mid table ? Avoid relegation ? 

Hardly the dynamic to advance the club is it ?

To quote a text from the dressing room wall 

" If not now , when ?

if not you , then who ? "

 

STEVE L's DIETS

TARGETTING..............................PROMOTION!

[TheCulturalBomb]

Regardless of whether the club is ready or not, every season we should be challenging for promotion and titles. That's what football is about, to do the best you can with what you got. 

[Tinmans Love Child]

16 hours ago, Sweeneys Penalties said:

outrageous ticket prices in The Prem? I can watch Southampton for less than I can watch City

That doesn’t mean it’s good value, I think anything over £20 is a rip off regardless of division, see Germany for how it should be done

[Tinmans Love Child]

2 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

I can't imagine a day, ever , when the club will come out and say ' this year we are targetting promotion ' and genuinely mean it .

That said if we aren't now when there is an outside chance when will we ? 

If you aren't specifically trying to get promoted what are you trying to do ? 

Aiming for mid table ? Avoid relegation ? 

Hardly the dynamic to advance the club is it ?

To quote a text from the dressing room wall 

" If not now , when ?

if not you , then who ? "

 

Get used to it, if we did get promotion then the only thing to be targeted would be 4th from bottom or above, we won’t bother with cups, we probably won’t even bother playing our best team against the top 6 in order to save our players for the games that ‘really matter’ against relegation rivals, sounds great!

[Red7]

48 minutes ago, TheCulturalBomb said:

Regardless of whether the club is ready or not, every season we should be challenging for promotion and titles.

Personally I don't give a toss whether we're "ready" or not. Or whether we're punching above our weight or not. Football is about moving up the leagues, whatever level you play at. If we're currently in seventh position, it's because we deserve to be there. If we go up, it will be because we deserve to go up. If we stay down, it will be because we deserve to stay down. I'm sick of the over-complicating of matters and trying to think things too much.

[Major Isewater]

27 minutes ago, Red7 said:

Personally I don't give a toss whether we're "ready" or not. Or whether we're punching above our weight or not. Football is about moving up the leagues, whatever level you play at. If we're currently in seventh position, it's because we deserve to be there. If we go up, it will be because we deserve to go up. If we stay down, it will be because we deserve to stay down. I'm sick of the over-complicating of matters and trying to think things too much.

Now I can definitely exclude the possibility that Red7 is LJ's OTIB poster name .

[Red7]

2 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Now I can definitely exclude the possibility that Red7 is LJ's OTIB poster name

Was it the aversion to overthinking things that swung it, @Major Isewater?

[Major Isewater]

4 minutes ago, Red7 said:

Was it the aversion to overthinking things that swung it, @Major Isewater?

Damn straight.

[Bazooka Joe]

14 hours ago, Xiled said:

We loaned two players (Kent and Diony) who had genuine pedigree but haven't worked out for us.

What pedigree, chum?

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Robbored said:

Kent is a young lad. Was Macmanaman a clas act at 19? 

I can only assume that GoN was on the bench because he's still not ready and I agree 100% that it was a mad idea by LJ to leave out Pack and play Walsh instead with Wright at LB with Kelly on the bench.................

A major error in team selection. Worrying too much about the opposition.

I'm sure you know that at the age of 19 Steve McManaman played more than 50 first team games in a season for Liverpool, and was named as man of the match when Liverpool won the FA cup that season, he was the youngest player on the pitch.

this is the crux of the matter, we aren't just signing or borrowing young players, they are also not proven at Championship level to any degree, for every Tammy there are going to be 10 Lekos, Walshs and Kents.

[Robbored]

1 hour ago, Countryfile said:

I'm sure you know that at the age of 19 Steve McManaman played more than 50 first team games in a season for Liverpool, and was named as man of the match when Liverpool won the FA cup that season, he was the youngest player on the pitch.

That I didn't know.

I remember him playing for Liverpool but had no idea of his age. He was certainly a class act. Very few English players sign for Real Madrid.

[Xiled]

7 hours ago, Jack Dawe said:

"We are set up for the long term and not specifically targetting promotion this season" is what MA "confirmed" to the Post in February. In the absence of any statements from the club to the contrary, I would've thought that the signing of Walsh, and the selection of Walsh v Brentford, with a play-off place there to compete for, is evidence of MA's reported words in action.

LJ is head coach largely because he is SL's best bet and most trusted to implement SL's "pillars" and new approach, post relegation in 2013. LJ is charged with keeping more than one plate spinning at any one time: a winning team and signing and development of young talent (before they become established and so expensive) and keeping the "pathway" from academy to first team open and busy. LJ has to manage today, and tomorrow.

It's a big ask, but that's what SL demands.

What SL wants is success on the pitch and sustainability throughout the club. For this, we need kids like Walsh to blossom and they cannot do that sat on the bench/appearing as a sub for 5 mins/playing for the U23s.

Because we are not specifically targetting promotion this season - and are in no danger of relegation - this is seen as an ideal opportunity to get Walsh some games. So that when we are specifically targetting promotion, we are doing so with a prudently assembled team of home grown academy lads, talent from elsewhere identified early and nurtured by ourselves, and bargains picked up from overseas. Along with any good deals from amongst our peers as and when they arise, such as Baker. Or, er, Bailey Wright.

Unfortunately, while we go about trialling/trying to make a go of this "philosophy," there's going to be a few occasions where we look half-hearted, unambitious, and not interested in what seems to be there for the taking.

But while most fans are mostly pre-occupied with the "winning on the pitch/getting into the PL" bit, the bloke that owns the place and calls the shots - SL - has twin pre-occupations. Winning and sustainability.

We are going to have to be patient, we are going to have to wait, and probably see more "Liam Walshs" introduced without knowing for sure whether all this will ever result in the success those that lost their rag Monday - and most of us - so desire.

 

But it's a lot better than 2016/17. Or 2015/16. Or 20.........

For me, this is the best post in the entire thread (even though you started it @Jack Dawe!!)

Just because you aren't targeting something doesn't mean you don't want it. Ashton's statement was also a way of taking off the pressure - just look at how Derby choke everytime they get near a promotion.

We're all going to be critical after what has happened since January but I'm tired of the clever observations that are purely based on hindsight. If you thought that Diony, Walsh and Kent wouldn't be good enough before the transfer window closed then credit to you. Likewise if you knew before the end of Jan that our injured players like O'Dowda wouldn't be back in time to affect our season then credit to you. But if you're looking back now and criticising what has happened although you were happy at the time then you're being unfair.

It turns out that I'm the smartest bloke on the planet with hindsight. In everyday here and now reality, I'm a dumbass.

[Major Isewater]

12 minutes ago, Xiled said:

For me, this is the best post in the entire thread (even though you started it @Jack Dawe!!)

Just because you aren't targeting something doesn't mean you don't want it. Ashton's statement was also a way of taking off the pressure - just look at how Derby choke everytime they get near a promotion.

We're all going to be critical after what has happened since January but I'm tired of the clever observations that are purely based on hindsight. If you thought that Diony, Walsh and Kent wouldn't be good enough before the transfer window closed then credit to you. Likewise if you knew before the end of Jan that our injured players like O'Dowda wouldn't be back in time to affect our season then credit to you. But if you're looking back now and criticising what has happened although you were happy at the time then you're being unfair.

It turns out that I'm the smartest bloke on the planet with hindsight. In everyday here and now reality, I'm a dumbass.

So what were we targeting at the beginning of the season ?

Avoiding a relegation battle ? Mid table respectability ? 

Is this what we sold to our new signings ? to the thousands of loyal season card holders ?

Ashton's statement was ill advised and has surely had a negative affect .

As regards the transfer window, we have needed a second right back since the summer, with or without the injury to Pisano.

Yes , we have been unlucky with injuries but so has every other club including some less well off than ours.

 

[Davefevs]

On 03/04/2018 at 21:20, ScottishRed said:

With all due respect you completely and utterly miss the point.

IF, there is a deliberate plan by the club to ensure we don't get promoted that is beyond naive.

There is absolutely no,repeat NO guarantee that the opportuntity will present itself again next season.

Witness Reading and Sheffield Wed - play - off places last year - this year miles off it, and neither made any changes that weakened them.

The attitude of some on here that next year we will be stronger and be in a better position to get auto promotion boils my pixx.

This season 2 of the relegated teams have never even flirted with the top 6, regardless of who comes down there is a good chance that 2 at least, will be contenders. Add those to the ones that miss out this time round and you have a good few in the mix.

You can also add to that a 'surprise package.

I could of course be totally wrong - I hope I am.

We had a real chance this year and we fxxked it up.

A key point of getting promoted is the £120m + - get promoted and maybe get relegated BUT that money really helps to build the club and move towards self sustainability.

Re the bold bit, for fear of repeating of myself, Reading lost Danny Williams to Huddersfield .  Wednesday hadn’t lost anyone of note, so that blew my Reading theory (sample of 2!).  Then, guess what, although Wednesday hadn’t sold anyone, I see that Forestieri has been out injured all season.  He’s been back 12 mins and 1 min in 4-1 and 3-1 victories.  Might not be on-pitch influence, just yet, but maybe having him back around is a spur on.

Re the italicised bit, we may lose a couple of our stars.....you’re right, no guarantee we’ll push again next season.

[Major Isewater]

38 minutes ago, Xiled said:

For me, this is the best post in the entire thread (even though you started it @Jack Dawe!!)

Just because you aren't targeting something doesn't mean you don't want it. Ashton's statement was also a way of taking off the pressure - just look at how Derby choke everytime they get near a promotion.

We're all going to be critical after what has happened since January but I'm tired of the clever observations that are purely based on hindsight. If you thought that Diony, Walsh and Kent wouldn't be good enough before the transfer window closed then credit to you. Likewise if you knew before the end of Jan that our injured players like O'Dowda wouldn't be back in time to affect our season then credit to you. But if you're looking back now and criticising what has happened although you were happy at the time then you're being unfair.

It turns out that I'm the smartest bloke on the planet with hindsight. In everyday here and now reality, I'm a dumbass.

So what were we targeting at the beginning of the season ?

Avoiding a relegation battle ? Mid table respectability ? 

Is this what we sold to our new signings ? to the thousands of loyal season card holders ?

Ashton's statement was ill advised and has surely had a negative affect .

As regards the transfer window, we have needed a second right back since the summer, with or without the injury to Pisano.

Yes , we have been unlucky with injuries but so has every other club including some less well off than ours.

Sorry, double post . Rebooted iPhone. Hope the problem is resolved.

[INCRED]

The January transfer window has been a disaster and probably disrupted the dynamics of the club and our form. Whilst the players were in need of a rest and LJ needed to boost numbers to rotate a thin squad, in all honesty how often have they played and actually contributed. This is probably the overarching reason why we are pulling our hair out at the absolute rubbish being served up in recent months (aside from the Wednesday game). 

Diony - Been tracking for 2 seasons. Poor

Kent - Top Liverpool youngster? Can see why he wasn’t playing in Germany now can’t we?

Did we really need these two players after all when we had Elliason who wouldn’t have done any worse than Kent and also Taylor or Engval instead of Diony?

I admit I thought both would bring us some extra quality and looks like LJ and MA did also. It just goes to show it was a gamble that didn’t pay off. Maybe LJ needs to trust those already on the books even if it means playing one or two U23s 

[BobBobSuperBob]

40 minutes ago, INCRED said:

The January transfer window has been a disaster and probably disrupted the dynamics of the club and our form. Whilst the players were in need of a rest and LJ needed to boost numbers to rotate a thin squad, in all honesty how often have they played and actually contributed. This is probably the overarching reason why we are pulling our hair out at the absolute rubbish being served up in recent months (aside from the Wednesday game). 

Diony - Been tracking for 2 seasons. Poor

Kent - Top Liverpool youngster? Can see why he wasn’t playing in Germany now can’t we?

Did we really need these two players after all when we had Elliason who wouldn’t have done any worse than Kent and also Taylor or Engval instead of Diony?

I admit I thought both would bring us some extra quality and looks like LJ and MA did also. It just goes to show it was a gamble that didn’t pay off. Maybe LJ needs to trust those already on the books even if it means playing one or two U23s 

This is what concerns me 

I can only imagine we weren’t  ‘eyes on’ scouting them this season and if we were Christ knows what they witnessed that we havnt or have they both hit horrendous form since they landed in Bristol

I suspect not personally

 

[Xiled]

1 hour ago, Major Isewater said:

So what were we targeting at the beginning of the season ?

Avoiding a relegation battle ? Mid table respectability ? 

Is this what we sold to our new signings ? to the thousands of loyal season card holders ?

Ashton's statement was ill advised and has surely had a negative affect .

I imagine we were targeting promotion. As others have said that's what nearly all football clubs do. That doesn't mean we expected it this season. Equally, when we found ourselves at the top of the table it doesn't mean that we should have ripped up the accepted strategy and throw money at players in the hope that we finish second or win an incredibly tough three game playoff. We've been wreckless before and it nearly cost us our club in 1982 and definitely gave us relegation 2012/13.

We did sign players - they didn't work out. It's not like we sold five players in January and threw the towel in.

I don't think the club makes any promises to players or season ticket holders. That would bite you on the arse quicker than a rottweiler. Remember the 90s promises of playing in Europe in less than five years? Yeah, how did that work out?

You'll never know what affect Ashton's statement had on the team/club. It might have been positive.

[ScottishRed]

51 minutes ago, Xiled said:

I imagine we were targeting promotion. As others have said that's what nearly all football clubs do. That doesn't mean we expected it this season. Equally, when we found ourselves at the top of the table it doesn't mean that we should have ripped up the accepted strategy and throw money at players in the hope that we finish second or win an incredibly tough three game playoff. We've been wreckless before and it nearly cost us our club in 1982 and definitely gave us relegation 2012/13.

We did sign players - they didn't work out. It's not like we sold five players in January and threw the towel in.

I don't think the club makes any promises to players or season ticket holders. That would bite you on the arse quicker than a rottweiler. Remember the 90s promises of playing in Europe in less than five years? Yeah, how did that work out?

You'll never know what affect Ashton's statement had on the team/club. It might have been positive.

If I recall correctly a similar comment about Europe was trotted out by the HC last season!

[Major Isewater]

8 hours ago, Xiled said:

I imagine we were targeting promotion. As others have said that's what nearly all football clubs do. That doesn't mean we expected it this season. Equally, when we found ourselves at the top of the table it doesn't mean that we should have ripped up the accepted strategy and throw money at players in the hope that we finish second or win an incredibly tough three game playoff. We've been wreckless before and it nearly cost us our club in 1982 and definitely gave us relegation 2012/13.

We didn't get into trouble for being ' wreck less ' but over cautious. We tied our best players down to ridiculously long contracts to stop them leaving for nothing. I was around at the time .

We did sign players - they didn't work out. It's not like we sold five players in January and threw the towel in.

We didn't sign the quality we needed to push us over the line, clearly.

I don't think the club makes any promises to players or season ticket holders. That would bite you on the arse quicker than a rottweiler. Remember the 90s promises of playing in Europe in less than five years? Yeah, how did that work out?

I would like to see the promotion material for the season card campaign for last year. Help City become established in the Championship, perhaps ?

 

You'll never know what affect Ashton's statement had on the team/club. It might have been positive.

I searched your post to try and find something that I agreed with but failed.

Your last sentence is just hilarious.

I respect your optimism but the reality is there for everyone to see.

I'm actually less worried about promotion now than a season of relegation struggle next year as we refresh the team and search for a winning formula.

Roll on 3 points against Millwall !

 

[havanatopia]

Speaking to a Liverpool fan the other evening we mentioned Kent and another similar fella whose name escapes me but is also out on loan. He said words to the effect "arhhh yes, you got hook line and sinkered by taking Kent. He may turn out good but he is way off what you need. Our video promotion was obviously a polished presentation rather than the polished turd we Pool fans believe he generally is".

[CyderInACan]

18 minutes ago, havanatopia said:

Speaking to a Liverpool fan the other evening we mentioned Kent and another similar fella whose name escapes me but is also out on loan. He said words to the effect "arhhh yes, you got hook line and sinkered by taking Kent. He may turn out good but he is way off what you need. Our video promotion was obviously a polished presentation rather than the polished turd we Pool fans believe he generally is".

Polished? Not a chance. 

[BTRFTG]

2 hours ago, havanatopia said:

Speaking to a Liverpool fan the other evening we mentioned Kent and another similar fella whose name escapes me but is also out on loan. He said words to the effect "arhhh yes, you got hook line and sinkered by taking Kent. He may turn out good but he is way off what you need. Our video promotion was obviously a polished presentation rather than the polished turd we Pool fans believe he generally is".

Save that doesn't explain the performances some of us witnessed him delivering for Barnsley. There's an unpalatable truth in BS3 but we've a long history of making a sow's ear from a silk purse.....perchance Kent is the latest.

[Major Isewater]

3 hours ago, havanatopia said:

Speaking to a Liverpool fan the other evening we mentioned Kent and another similar fella whose name escapes me but is also out on loan. He said words to the effect "arhhh yes, you got hook line and sinkered by taking Kent. He may turn out good but he is way off what you need. Our video promotion was obviously a polished presentation rather than the polished turd we Pool fans believe he generally is".

I'm sure with the Barnsley connection LJ knew a lot about the player before bringing him in .

He would be confident of improving the lad .

 The biggest problem I see for all three of our January signings is they are so desperate to impress that they are over egging the pudding.

They all need to take chill pills.

 

[Xiled]

4 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

I searched your post to try and find something that I agreed with but failed.

Your last sentence is just hilarious.

I respect your optimism but the reality is there for everyone to see.

I'm actually less worried about promotion now than a season of relegation struggle next year as we refresh the team and search for a winning formula.

Roll on 3 points against Millwall !

 

I'm not looking for you to agree with anything I've said - we see the situation quite differently.  But that's the beauty of football and this forum.  The debate elsewhere doesn't begin to match the quality of (many) views on OTIB.

With regard to my last sentence being hilarious ("You'll never know what affect Ashton's statement had on the team/club. It might have been positive")  As unpalatable as it is, that sentence is accurate.  We've won three league games since we played Wolves on 30th December - we might have lost/drawn those as well.  Personally, I work best when I'm not put under excessive pressure by my employer.  I think Mark Ashton's comments were an attempt to take away the expectation that we were nailed on for promotion or the play-offs.  He knew the finances, he knew the injuries, he knew the realistic transfer targets, he knew the club's strategy - it was his right to manage expectations based on his responsibility to Bristol City. 

I guess it's human nature but there is so much intelligent hindsight in these forum discussions.  As I keep banging on (to the point where I'm bored of typing the same observation) so much of the criticism only happens when things don't work out.  I totally support everyone's rights to express their frustration but the most vociferous critics were not raising their concerns in December/January.  I don't remember seeing a single post along the lines of "....is a waste of space, we shouldn't sign him and he'll contribute nothing to our promotion push".  The fact that this is how things has worked out means that the club got it wrong but none of us have the right to lecture people like MA or LJ for a poor signing.

I'm deeply disappointed that we've dropped out of the play-offs and there are some very serious question that need to be addressed before we start a new season in August.  We cannot progress with the threat of another winter collapse undermining the good work that has gone before.  But I'm a realist and I see a lot of people at the club working extremely hard to take us in the right overall direction (apart from at the Brentford game).  You're old enough to remember the post-1982 days and although I loved standing in the east end with a few thousand people rattling around a near-deserted stadium, I have absolutely no desire to go back there.  Trust me, these are not the bad times.

3 points against Millwall and everything will be okay again!