The idea that the club are not ready for promotion this season

[Major Isewater]

6 minutes ago, spudski said:

He's been injured long term...he's now 34. I'd rather have, Pack, Smith or Walsh over GoN...purely on the fact I'm thinking long term.

What annoys me Major...is people keep saying play this player, play that player...like it's some board game based on previous stats.

No one knows how they perform.

What do you say if GoN was played and he had a howler...how do you back your theory up?

Lj is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

He see's them and training etc,etc.

You can hardly expect a 34 yo to come back from injury and instantly make an impact.

You can imagine if LJ picked him and he was a nightmare...fans would be on his back saying 'what was he thinking, he isn't fit or ready'.

It's futile mate...to keep saying play this player etc.

So LJ could have played GON , an experienced promotion campaigner , but is thinking more about next season than this one and chose to play a lad who has a handful of first team appearances and struggled during the match .

We stank on Saturday and have done since the beginning of the year . I am not campaigning for a GON recall but just asking what was the point of bringing an experienced player to the club and not using that very same experience when we need it most ?

I know he's been injured but if he's fit enough to make the bench then surely  twenty minutes of calm and nous could have helped the other youngsters ?

I get the feeling more and more that the club don't want promotion this year . 

[spudski]

5 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

So LJ could have played GON , an experienced promotion campaigner , but is thinking more about next season than this one and chose to play a lad who has a handful of first team appearances and struggled during the match .

We stank on Saturday and have done since the beginning of the year . I am not campaigning for a GON recall but just asking what was the point of bringing an experienced player to the club and not using that very same experience when we need it most ?

I know he's been injured but if he's fit enough to make the bench then surely  twenty minutes of calm and nous could have helped the other youngsters ?

I get the feeling more and more that the club don't want promotion this year . 

He wasn't on the bench Major!!!

You only have to read this forum mate, and people are suggesting playing Elliasson, Engval and now GoN.

Play them with a returning Pisanno and Famara...lets see how that goes shall we ;-)

It's ok making suggestions fella...but we don't see them in training or know how fit they are etc.

It's all speculation based on nothing...because we don't know.

[Maesknoll Red]

14 minutes ago, spudski said:

 

It's ok making suggestions fella...but we don't see them in training or know how fit they are etc.

It's all speculation based on nothing...because we don't know.

Wouldn’t be much of a forum without speculation and opinion....

[spudski]

5 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

Wouldn’t be much of a forum without speculation and opinion....

Depends what type of forum you're looking for.

This one often resembles a red top paper...over reaction to everything.

Looking for anything noteworthy and logical  is often hard to find.

Everything is so reactionary.

People go mental when we have poor games...and then go forensic.

But never question or go forensic when we did well for 2 3rds of the season.

Unfortunately...people like to wallow in sorrow, and prefer to talk about it. When we are doing well, this place is half as active.

[BobBobSuperBob]

8 minutes ago, spudski said:

Depends what type of forum you're looking for.

This one often resembles a red top paper...over reaction to everything.

Looking for anything noteworthy and logical  is often hard to find.

Everything is so reactionary.

People go mental when we have poor games...and then go forensic.

But never question or go forensic when we did well for 2 3rds of the season.

Unfortunately...people like to wallow in sorrow, and prefer to talk about it. When we are doing well, this place is half as active.

Sorry Spud

But you are getting holier than thou again - the minions know nothing etc

Over analytical ?

Did you not start a thread suggesting that some of our players didn’t want to get promoted ?

 

Of course the forum is busy when the wheels come off - mainly with people debating what’s the reasons #Shockonafootballforum

Id also remind you when we were flying and playing United etc it was almost impossible to keep up with the forum it was so busy so even that’s a flawed claim

[spudski]

1 minute ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Sorry Spud

But you are getting holier than thou again

Over analytical ?

Did you not start a thread suggesting that some of our players didn’t want to get promoted ?

Read the thread BBSB...did I suggest? or ask 'what would you do'?

Purely put down to a post by Michael Mcindoe. Of which I then asked some people closer to the game than me.

Which led me to post...with very poor timing. it interested me and thought it was topical...hoever like I admitted originally, poor timing.

Holier than thou? Really?

Depends whether you are logical or over reactionary and dissect every game like it was a computer game.

Surely you would know from your previous scouting that we are dealing with human beings and not numbers?

How many teams below us are all questioning the same thing? Even Derby above us...

2 seasons up, young manager, young squad, many injuries, trying to build for the future, doing it slightly differently to the past, making a pathway for youngsters, which fans used to bitch about constantly, sitting 7th, good cup runs...and a downturn of fortunes, due to various things...and this forum goes nuts...trying to dissect everything, blaming everyone....from MA, SL,JL to LJ. Never blooming happy...happy to wallow in negativity.

Yet when it's going well....where were all the threads about how well we were doing? Far less than what we have now.

I'm not Holier than thou...just a realist who see's the futility of trying to dissect everything about the club after defeats....even though we sit 7th.

 

[BobBobSuperBob]

13 minutes ago, spudski said:

Read the thread BBSB...did I suggest? or ask 'what would you do'?

Purely put down to a post by Michael Mcindoe. Of which I then asked some people closer to the game than me.

Which led me to post...with very poor timing. it interested me and thought it was topical...hoever like I admitted originally, poor timing.

Holier than thou? Really?

Depends whether you are logical or over reactionary and dissect every game like it was a computer game.

Surely you would know from your previous scouting that we are dealing with human beings and not numbers?

How many teams below us are all questioning the same thing? Even Derby above us...

2 seasons up, young manager, young squad, many injuries, trying to build for the future, doing it slightly differently to the past, making a pathway for youngsters, which fans used to bitch about constantly, sitting 7th, good cup runs...and a downturn of fortunes, due to various things...and this forum goes nuts...trying to dissect everything, blaming everyone....from MA, SL,JL to LJ. Never blooming happy...happy to wallow in negativity.

Yet when it's going well....where were all the threads about how well we were doing? Far less than what we have now.

I'm not Holier than thou...just a realist who see's the futility of trying to dissect everything about the club after defeats....even though we sit 7th.

 

So what do you expect in a football forum generally , and at the moment off a slowly unfolding (3 month)  car crash culminating in Monday (One of the most shambolic performances I’ve ever witnessed from  City side , all factors considered)

 

What sort of debates / threads do you

Expect to see ?

Like to see ?

About ?

 

I think , as usual, in amongst some passion , rows , despair - there’s been some reasonable If hectic debates with , as usual some astute points and posts 

 

[spudski]

1 minute ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

So what do you expect in a football forum generally , and at the moment off a slowly enfolding car crash culminating in Monday

 

What sort of debates / threads do you

Expect to see ?

Like to see ?

About ?

 

I think , as usual, in amongst some passion , rows , despair - there’s been some reasonable If hectic debates with , as usual some astute points and posts 

 

I don't see the point of debating with such authority, what's going on at the Club based on 90 mins and reading the main site.

It's a bit like watching a brain surgeon doing his job, and him losing a few patients, and then giving him stick without ever walking in his footsteps. And then hardly ever acknowledging the pressure he's under and the good things he does, with good intent.

[Kid in the Riot]

3 minutes ago, spudski said:

I don't see the point of debating with such authority, what's going on at the Club based on 90 mins and reading the main site.

It's a bit like watching a brain surgeon doing his job, and him losing a few patients, and then giving him stick without ever walking in his footsteps. And then hardly ever acknowledging the pressure he's under and the good things he does, with good intent.

Spud - if that is really the case then why on earth do you read and post on this forum? !

[BobBobSuperBob]

13 minutes ago, spudski said:

I don't see the point of debating with such authority, what's going on at the Club based on 90 mins and reading the main site.

It's a bit like watching a brain surgeon doing his job, and him losing a few patients, and then giving him stick without ever walking in his footsteps. And then hardly ever acknowledging the pressure he's under and the good things he does, with good intent.

People rarely post / debate ‘ claiming authority’ IMHO

The closest I’ve seen to  ITK post is your claim that agents have inferred or told you that some of our squad aren’t too interested in promotion

Most of the debate or  And most of it , if you’ve read it , has been about the three month decline and general health of the playing side and set up going forward with recruitment a healthy debate 

Plenty opinions , some we may agree we th , some we probably won’t , some good posts and of course some nonsense here and there 

Don’t get what you expect on any football forum - it’s no different from the debates any group of fans would have down the pub 

[Lew-T]

Might just be me but I found LJ’s presser today pretty defeatist? “I hope we can take it to the wire” Doesn’t strike me as a confident interview. 

I guess I’m still disappointed from Monday. Don’t think I’ll get over that performance and team selection in a long time!

 

[Sweeneys Penalties]

On 4/3/2018 at 21:20, ScottishRed said:

With all due respect you completely and utterly miss the point.

IF, there is a deliberate plan by the club to ensure we don't get promoted that is beyond naive.

There is absolutely no,repeat NO guarantee that the opportuntity will present itself again next season.

Witness Reading and Sheffield Wed - play - off places last year - this year miles off it, and neither made any changes that weakened them.

The attitude of some on here that next year we will be stronger and be in a better position to get auto promotion boils my pixx.

This season 2 of the relegated teams have never even flirted with the top 6, regardless of who comes down there is a good chance that 2 at least, will be contenders. Add those to the ones that miss out this time round and you have a good few in the mix.

You can also add to that a 'surprise package.

I could of course be totally wrong - I hope I am.

We had a real chance this year and we fxxked it up.

A key point of getting promoted is the £120m + - get promoted and maybe get relegated BUT that money really helps to build the club and move towards self sustainability.

Boiling your piss must be very painful. I dont intend to have a go at that one. We'll wind up where we wind up.. which is well above my expectation at the start of the season. Disappointed? Yes of course, but as a work colleague (and lifelong Derby fan and ex player said)... I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did. PS he doesn't expect Derby to go up either.

[Sweeneys Penalties]

10 hours ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

If the criteria for the Prem being the best league is they screw fans over with outrageous ticket prices, Sky subscription fees, shirt prices etc whilst paying bang average players a fortune then I guess it is, but why would anyone want to conform to that?

Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see City playing the top teams at Ashton Gate, the Man Utd game was great, but not at all costs.  I would much rather produce our own players and have a team of local lads in the Champ, than sell out getting to the Prem, and no youngsters get a chance at all, and we end up with a team of either Prem journeyman or more dodgy foreign players!  

outrageous ticket prices in The Prem? I can watch Southampton for less than I can watch City

[spudski]

11 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Spud - if that is really the case then why on earth do you read and post on this forum? !

I often question that myself...and after having coffee with Harry I really did think about not bothering.

However...I've met many fans in the pubs and got talking and mentioned the forum and announced myself. The response was that they enjoyed reading my posts. There are many on here that don't post but read.

5 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

People rarely post / debate ‘ claiming authority’ IMHO

The closest I’ve seen to  ITK post is your claim that agents have inferred or told you that some of our squad aren’t too interested in promotion

Most of the debate or a little t of it , if you’ve read it has been about the three month decline and general health of the playing side and set up going forward with recruitment a healthy debate 

Plenty opinions , some we may agree we th , some we probably won’t , some good posts and of course some nonsense here and there 

Don’t get what you expect on any football forum - it’s no different from the debates any group of fans would have down the pub 

Really...in the history of this forum, my inference of Agent talk is the closest to being ITK?

There are people on here that work for the club...even a Director. They are far more itk than the regularly posters.

As for what I expect? Nothing...but I hope for more thoughtful and less reactionary posts.

Lets face it BBSB...there are a lot of people on here who have far too much time on their hands, and fill it with trying to find 'reasons'.

If everyone was in a 'normal' 9 to 5 job without constant access to the internet, and having to think about work instead of City, this place would be a lot less reactionary.

That's not a slur on peoples circumstance but an observation.

[BobBobSuperBob]

7 minutes ago, spudski said:

Really...in the history of this forum, my inference of Agent talk is the closest to being ITK?

No - don’t misquote , twist or mid-interpret - talking about people dissecting the recent slump ‘with authority’

Lets face it BBSB...there are a lot of people on here who have far too much time on their hands, and fill it with trying to find 'reasons'.

If everyone was in a 'normal' 9 to 5 job without constant access to the internet, and having to think about work instead of City, this place would be a lot less reactionary.

That's not a slur on peoples circumstance but an observation.

Hate to throw this back Spud but you are well up there in rank in terms of the number of posts 

 

[spudski]

2 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

 

Really...quote... 'The closest I’ve seen to  ITK post is your claim that agents have inferred or told you that some of our squad aren’t too interested in promotion '

As for posts...I'm lucky to have the opportunity of posting regularly down to the fact I'm self employed and have two lap tops open...one for work, one for pleasure.

I get side tracked...my decision. Others are on here because they use it to fill time. Nothing wrong with that, but it will lead to over thinking and over reaction.

[BobBobSuperBob]

2 minutes ago, spudski said:

Really...quote... 'The closest I’ve seen to  ITK post is your claim that agents have inferred or told you that some of our squad aren’t too interested in promotion '

As for posts...I'm lucky to have the opportunity of posting regularly down to the fact I'm self employed and have two lap tops open...one for work, one for pleasure.

I get side tracked...my decision. Others are on here because they use it to fill time. Nothing wrong with that, but it will lead to over thinking and over reaction.

Going to leave it but so what I’m saying is clear

You made a point about posters dissecting ‘with authority’ off the back of recent events

I pointed out that the only claim that I could recall I’ve seen recently about any subject ‘with authority’ was yours 

As for the reason why posters post a lot or little , unless you know them very well how can you claim so

What if they are self employed like you for example

My last post in relation to this Spud

[T R]

Hi @spudski I enjoy reading your posts and many other posters on this forum, as you probably worked out I am not the best poster on here. Would like to ask you why do you think we have picked up so many injuries this season? Is our pitch too good? Or players giving it 100% too early in the season, or just bad luck? Would like to read your thoughts on this, or any other poster.

Cheers

[spudski]

20 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Going to leave it but so what I’m saying is clear

You made a point about posters dissecting ‘with authority’ off the back of recent events

I pointed out that the only claim that I could recall I’ve seen recently about any subject ‘with authority’ was yours 

As for the reason why posters post a lot or little , unless you know them very well how can you claim so

What if they are self employed like you for example

My last post in relation to this Spud

Many posters who are regular and very reactionary have let on to their circumstance. Like I said, no problem...but if you have time on your hands, and looking for 'reason's' then you get a whole host of posts looking to fill time.

3 minutes ago, Threshing Red said:

Hi @spudski I enjoy reading your posts and many other posters on this forum, as you probably worked out I am not the best poster on here. Would like to ask you why do you think we have picked up so many injuries this season? Is our pitch too good? Or players giving it 100% too early in the season, or just bad luck? Would like to read your thoughts on this, or any other poster.

Cheers

Hi mate...no worries. Nothing wrong with your posts.  Imo...one of those seasons...bad luck...and a high pressing game. I had the opportunity to speak to a coach at the club and he said to me that throughout the club players were getting hamstring niggles.

However...imo, we've just been really unlucky with injuries.

Can you imagine how much better we possibly could have been with a fully fir squad?

Anyone would think we were Sunderland.

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

And what would you say to Djuric ? 

'I couldn't build directly around you until you have an injury free year', 'It is short-term thinking risking aggravating the injury you are still getting over with the options available', 'you'll be an asset off the bench mainly and we will work with you this summer so you can go on and compete to be first choice next year'.

[T R]

14 minutes ago, spudski said:

Many posters who are regular and very reactionary have let on to their circumstance. Like I said, no problem...but if you have time on your hands, and looking for 'reason's' then you get a whole host of posts looking to fill time.

Hi mate...no worries. Nothing wrong with your posts.  Imo...one of those seasons...bad luck...and a high pressing game. I had the opportunity to speak to a coach at the club and he said to me that throughout the club players were getting hamstring niggles.

However...imo, we've just been really unlucky with injuries.

Can you imagine how much better we possibly could have been with a fully fir squad?

Anyone would think we were Sunderland.

Thanks spuds playing a high tempo game has its drawbacks i suppose but it aint half exciting to watch. Maybe why we dropped off slightly. 

 

[Xiled]

Back to the original post....

January's transfer window is always a gamble. Players are not typically out of contract and therefore it's a sellers' market. We loaned two players (Kent and Diony) who had genuine pedigree but haven't worked out for us. Not great but how much worse had we signed the same pair for £15M+ It was a gamble that didn't pay-off but I don't get the idea of it being a deliberate conspiracy to keep us in the Championship.

With regard to GO'N being the unplayed saviour. He's a nice guy who came with with great experience and pedigree but I haven't seen him play more than a couple of decent games for us. To think that he can step up after a long injury lay-off and be better than he's ever been previously is fantasy football.

And 'fantasy football' is really the only way to explain what's happend since the end of December. Truth is none of us know the realities of the situation. Maybe FFP stopped us signing anyone more expensive than Walsh? Or if we had £30M to spend, wasted it on journeymen and didn't get promoted, what then? It's all conjecture. A good debate but only a bunch of outsider opinions.

2018 has not been great (yet) but it's still been an amazing season.

[Major Isewater]

4 hours ago, Xiled said:

Back to the original post....

January's transfer window is always a gamble. Players are not typically out of contract and therefore it's a sellers' market. We loaned two players (Kent and Diony) who had genuine pedigree but haven't worked out for us. Not great but how much worse had we signed the same pair for £15M+ It was a gamble that didn't pay-off but I don't get the idea of it being a deliberate conspiracy to keep us in the Championship.

With regard to GO'N being the unplayed saviour. He's a nice guy who came with with great experience and pedigree but I haven't seen him play more than a couple of decent games for us. To think that he can step up after a long injury lay-off and be better than he's ever been previously is fantasy football.

And 'fantasy football' is really the only way to explain what's happend since the end of December. Truth is none of us know the realities of the situation. Maybe FFP stopped us signing anyone more expensive than Walsh? Or if we had £30M to spend, wasted it on journeymen and didn't get promoted, what then? It's all conjecture. A good debate but only a bunch of outsider opinions.

2018 has not been great (yet) but it's still been an amazing season.

 Various club representatives have said that GON has never been fully fit since he's been here but now , after his operation,  we should see the best of him.

 I don't expect him to suddenly start playing like Messi but as I previously pointed out , he has done this before on several occasions and that experience could be invaluable.

 The January window is a time where players can be signed who are running down contracts and the selling clubs are happy to get a return on their players and the player is happy to start his new club career. 

With the huge data base available at BCFC there is no reason why the winter window should be worse than the summer one.

 

[CyderInACan]

7 hours ago, Xiled said:

We loaned two players (Kent and Diony) who had genuine pedigree but haven't worked out for us.

Kent does not have genuine pedigree. Maybe more of an argument in Diony's case but even then it seems that both will offer little to the cause for the remainder of the season. 

2 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

 Various club representatives have said that GON has never been fully fit since he's been here but now , after his operation,  we should see the best of him.

 I don't expect him to suddenly start playing like Messi but as I previously pointed out , he has done this before on several occasions and that experience could be invaluable.

 The January window is a time where players can be signed who are running down contracts and the selling clubs are happy to get a return on their players and the player is happy to start his new club career. 

With the huge data base available at BCFC there is no reason why the winter window should be worse than the summer one.

Why oh why wasn't GON on the bench on Monday with Pack playing. Walsh starting was a madness. 

[Tinmans Love Child]

15 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

I can't give you a like because, while I accept all the negatives that you state about the Premium, if we are going to be content with second tier football, the club will slowly die. City would be doing the same as most clubs in the Rugby Championship - treating the second division as their first. 

I know there will be drawbacks and we may well get slaughtered more often than not but I had four years of First Division with City and loved every minute. To be able to see the top players in our stadium, to appreciate their quality and ours as well. To accept when we lost to a better side and above all the highs when we were the better side. Beating Arsenal, Man U, Liverpool cannot be matched by winning against the Burtons and Rotherhams. 

It’s not about being content with the Championship, it’s about not selling out to achieve the Premier, two different things

[ScottishRed]

9 minutes ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

It’s not about being content with the Championship, it’s about not selling out to achieve the Premier, two different things

Serious question, what do you mean by not selling out?

 

[Tinmans Love Child]

54 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

Serious question, what do you mean by not selling out?

 

Selling out for me is chasing the Premier League dream by literally gambling millions and millions of pounds in order to compete financially with clubs far bigger than us, stopping the young local players coming through the ranks and generally ignoring/forgetting why the football club is here, which is for the local community and fans, not a cash cow.

Personally I’m not interested in the Prem anymore, I’ve been duped for too long that it’s essential viewing and the ‘best league in the world’, I’m not interested.  Yes I want City to do well and if they get to the Prem then great, but I would prefer us to do things differently and stick to an ethos of youth development.  It might not ever happen that way I appreciate, but we’ve not had much success spending money either so there are no guarantees.

The knee jerk reactions nowadays to bad form, bad games, bad subs etc etc are embarrassing.  “We” seem to want instant success, and if it doesn’t work straight away, bin off the manager, bin off the players, and go again until the next time.  I’m no huge LJ fan but anybody who thinks sacking him and bringing in someone else is going to gaurantee anything is deluded or hasn’t been watching football for very long.

Ive been watching City nearly 30 years now, and it’s always been a rollercoaster, I’ve seen managers come in who everybody wanted (Coppell) do nothing, I’ve seen managers who didn’t play good football get binned (Pulis), both with a history of getting teams to the Prem (either before or after they were with us), I’ve seen foreign coaches (Big Fat Benny) play 3,1,2,1,2,1 formations, ex top footballers fail (RO), homegrown heroes fail (BT).  So what is the key to the Prem?  Who knows but if it’s gambling loads of money then it’s not for me

[Xiled]

1 hour ago, CyderInACan said:

Kent does not have genuine pedigree. Maybe more of an argument in Diony's case but even then it seems that both will offer little to the cause for the remainder of the season.

I think a lot of City fans were impressed with Kent when he played against us for Barnsley.  Named by them as young player of the season just last year.  Although Barnsley fans offered mixed reviews about his end product, that's not unusual for a player on loan who the club has no actual chance of buying.  He's been loaned to a Bundesliga side already this season (yes, I know it didn't work out). Liverpool clearly don't want him off their books and they're doing pretty well at present.

If we want young and hungry players, the above counts as pedigree.  If Bristol City can genuinely loan in 21 year olds with a better cv than Ryan Kent, I would like to know who they are.  It hasn't worked out, I accept that, but show me the threads and posts that said Kent was a bad signing when he came to us.

[Robbored]

1 hour ago, CyderInACan said:

Kent does not have genuine pedigree. Maybe more of an argument in Diony's case but even then it seems that both will offer little to the cause for the remainder of the season. 

Why oh why wasn't GON on the bench on Monday with Pack playing. Walsh starting was a madness. 

Kent is a young lad. Was Macmanaman a clas act at 19? 

I can only assume that GoN was on the bench because he's still not ready and I agree 100% that it was a mad idea by LJ to leave out Pack and play Walsh instead with Wright at LB with Kelly on the bench.................

A major error in team selection. Worrying too much about the opposition.

[Tinmans Love Child]

9 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Kent is a young lad. Was Macmanaman a clas act at 19? 

I can only assume that GoN was on the bench because he's still not ready and I agree 100% that it was a mad idea by LJ to leave out Pack and play Walsh instead with Wright at LB with Kelly on the bench.................

A major error in team selection. Worrying too much about the opposition.

The real question is why do we agree to loan deals where we have to play the players regardless of form to the detriment of our own form, loans will always be hit or miss