The reason

[Alan Dicks]

I'm sorry but anyone who picks Kent and Walsh to play above Pack and Kelly has sadly lost touch with reality.

[Anglo-Welsh]

13 hours ago, RedNight said:

I've seen quite a few posters post in disbelief at how quickly fans have turned. 

The problem is, these people hammering Johnson (and I don't mean the ones who are frustrated at form), the ones calling him a clueless clown and questioning his position, are the ones who ferociously went for his kneck last year, with personal attacks. 

And no matter how good Johnson does now, that will always leave a sour taste in their mouths. 

Im sure others can sense smugness in post, that can finally go back to thrashing Johnsons tactics, team selections, substitutions. People are literally buzzing off it! 

These people judgments are so clouded, because of their hate towards Johnson, that they have no perspective. They simply don't recognise how we have progressed and what a damn good season we've had. 

They just saw four months ago we were 2nd, now we're 7th, and that Johnson has supposedly ****** it, without considering all the other variables thst have probably contributed to our turn in form. 

Ofcourse no one will admit to having a sour taste in their mouths regarding last year and being proved wrong. But it's true. 

Lookijg forward to all the rubbish reactions to this, probably those with an agenda against Johnson. 

Anyway, 6 games to go, 1 point off six, fully in the hunt. I'll be backing the club and all those involved till the final day ! You reds! 

No agenda against Johnson at all. But Monday afternoon was dire. I commuted from a fair distance, as do a number of fans, to be rewarded with a disgraceful performance. To top if off, Johnson then comes out and says in the press conference that it's essentially our fault for criticizing our 'mentally weak' players who 'need love'. Utter dribble.

[RedRock]

6 minutes ago, Alan Dicks said:

I'm sorry but anyone who picks Kent and Walsh to play above Pack and Kelly has sadly lost touch with reality.

Yep. That was my defining moment where all my doubts over LJ returned.

Would any of the 21,000 In attendance at the Brentford match selected that side? Fairly certain it would have been just one - LJ.

How can he still get things so terribly wrong .... he simply is not learning.

Maybe, just maybe, he will reflect on the Bank Holiday shambles realise that he isn’t the Pep of the Championship, go back to basics, and provide a marvellous run-in. Really hope so.

 

[prankerd]

When we slumped i thought well at least we got the playoffs...its got that bad that we might not even make them now!...whatever has happened this season that was good has been over shadowed by this dreadful form and the manager is the one who has to sort it out

[old_eastender]

1 hour ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Very poor post mate.  We were always going to struggle in the new year with our fixture overload and our injury list.  The fact that we’re still in the hunt for the play-offs is a huge credit to the whole club.  If success was so easy, wouldn’t everyone be successful?

You clearly do have an agenda against Johnson, as do many others on OTIB (but then many fans had an agenda against him as a player).  There are undoubtedly people on this forum who want him to fail, and who must be frustrated that we’re still in the hunt.  As far as i’m concerned, it’s been a fantastic season, and it’s not over yet.

Here we go again, we are 7th so it's been a good season line and anybody who is critical about LJ wants us to fail nonsense.

If our season's journey had been like Millwall (who we are not level with in the table) and we had steadily improved working up from the bottom half to now be in form and in with a chance of making the play-offs most fans would be happy with events. But his is not the case, we had got into a fantastic position at year end and if we just could have averaged 1.5 points game since we would be sitting clear in 5th with a play-off positon nearly in the bag. It's what we have thrown away that hurts so much. The fact is that the "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" brigade concerning LJ are just as bad as the irrational LJ haters!

 

 

[General Zod]

3 hours ago, Robbored said:

Yet another poster who just doesn't uunderstand what the long term strategy is at AG..

It’s possible to separate the two though Robbored.  A long term strategy still needs the right man at the helm.  We have run out of ideas as an attacking force and our once coveted footballing identity has vanished.  For too long now we have lost our way especially away from home and I’m struggling to think of another time I’ve seen a team go from world beaters to panel beaters in such a short space of time.  Let’s be fair, LJ has a fairly unspectacular CV as a manager, he has an unenviable record of struggling to address bad runs, is inexperienced and has surrounded himself with people with even less experience.  When the team and formation picked itself he was great and I can see how his personality rubbed off on those pulling on the shirt.  When the bad form needed stamping out and quickly he was found wanting and now with a near full squad at his disposal his inexperience and desire to over think things is there for all to see.  LJ May  well turn in to a fantastic manager, let’s hope so as he’s going nowhere and you can’t fault the effort and commitment he brings to the job.  I just think that a Championship club is not the right place to do your apprenticeship.  He should have been left to learn his trade and build his CV in the lower leagues before joining us.  If this wasn’t an option then he needed an old, experienced head alongside side him to nurture him through the early years as a championship manager.

[Robbored]

1 hour ago, General Zod said:

It’s possible to separate the two though Robbored.  A long term strategy still needs the right man at the helm.

SL sees LJ as the right man and why he didn't sack him last season

We have run out of ideas as an attacking force and our once coveted footballing identity has vanished.  For too long now we have lost our way especially away from home and I’m struggling to think of another time I’ve seen a team go from world beaters to panel beaters in such a short space of time.

LJ is looking to create our own 'identity' but things take time to implement. Right players with the right character are the first step. 

Its a long season to expect top performances every game and there are bound to be a loss in form over 46 games and yet despite that City are still in the mix for a pray off place

Let’s be fair, LJ has a fairly unspectacular CV as a manager, he has an unenviable record of struggling to address bad runs, is inexperienced and has surrounded himself with people with even less experience.  When the team and formation picked itself he was great and I can see how his personality rubbed off on those pulling on the shirt.  When the bad form needed stamping out and quickly he was found wanting and now with a near full squad at his disposal his inexperience and desire to over think things is there for all to see.

Over thinking I agree with. That said he thinks deeply about the game, puts in loads of miles and visits top clubs like Man City and Spurs to pick up some ideas. Let's not forget he's a young guy learning his trade and takes it very seriously.

LJ May  well turn in to a fantastic manager, let’s hope so as he’s going nowhere and you can’t fault the effort and commitment he brings to the job.  I just think that a Championship club is not the right place to do your apprenticeship.  He should have been left to learn his trade and build his CV in the lower leagues before joining us.  If this wasn’t an option then he needed an old, experienced head alongside side him to nurture him through the early years as a championship manager.

Steve Lansdown obviously disagrees with you on that. He wants a manager who will adopt his philosophy of developing young players with the aim of having several of them vying for a first team place. Already we see Bryan/Reid and now Kelly all involved and with Vyner getting rave reviews at Argyle he'll possibly involved next season.

 

[RedLionLad]

4 hours ago, Bri Stool City said:

oh yes I do, its to go forever around in circles, building pillars, and ripping its clients off. Not daring to go for it, i.e being in the best position with a real chance of doing something and.......we sign 3 no-bodies who are really likely to move us forward...not.

We will be for-ever the nearly club, scared of our shadow.

1

Don't think we'll ever be scared by Rovers

[General Zod]

44 minutes ago, Robbored said:

 

And that’s what makes football a game of opinions.  I feel LJ hasn’t learnt from last season, we had a Bristol City identity for the first half of the season but it’s been abandoned with no sign of its return especially away from home and whilst we are in with a sniff of the playoffs which is amazing, performances are showing no sign of improvement. What is the criteria for evolving on the pitch?  I see an unbalanced squad especially if one up front is our best formation.   SL may want a young manager at the helm to oversee the project.  From what I’ve seen, at this stage of his career I don’t think it should be LJ especially without experience help alongside him.  I don’t think it’s fair to LJ throwing him into Championship management when he’s clearly not ready.  We wouldn’t expect it of a young player so why expect it of a young manager?

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

8 hours ago, old_eastender said:

Here we go again, we are 7th so it's been a good season line and anybody who is critical about LJ wants us to fail nonsense.

If our season's journey had been like Millwall (who we are not level with in the table) and we had steadily improved working up from the bottom half to now be in form and in with a chance of making the play-offs most fans would be happy with events. But his is not the case, we had got into a fantastic position at year end and if we just could have averaged 1.5 points game since we would be sitting clear in 5th with a play-off positon nearly in the bag. It's what we have thrown away that hurts so much. The fact is that the "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" brigade concerning LJ are just as bad as the irrational LJ haters!

 

 

We’ve thrown away nothing.  We had a great first half of the season, but we had no right to be still 2nd, for all the reasons previously stated.  Of course i’m disappointed in our form since Christmas, but I’m not surprised.  To see teams like Wolves, Villa, Fulham and Middlesbrough do well in 2018 was to be expected, given their resources.  We were always punching above our weight and I think most people expected the bad patch to come.  That we are still 7th is, in my view, a measure of our success.  Other teams (look at Leeds) might have fallen away completely

Who were all these players available in the transfer window who we failed to buy? The fact is we signed a striker who had previously cost a lot of money, a Premiership player who had proved himself in the Premiership, and a promising young player for the future.  Most people were pleased with those signings, and few could have predicted that Kent and Diony would have been such a let-down, but most clubs are taking a punt in the January window.

What I don’t do is to blame (if blame is needed) Lee Johnson for our present ‘predcament’.  This season we have progressed, whether we get promotion or not.  Of course we’d have all taken seventh place with six to play and a cup semi-final before the season started.  If we could reproduce the form we showed in the last six matches last season (after a disastrous 40th game, when this whole forum was calling for Johnson’s head) then we have a chance of making the play-offs.  The idea that I should be disappointed with the season we’ve had and the position we’re still in is, if you’ll forgive me, ludicrous.

i’ve watched some fabulous football this season, which has made me very happy, and I’ve clapped some great moments.  In that regard then I suppose I have been a ‘happy clapper’.  I have every reason to hope that next season, with the current set-up, will be a great one too, and that is good enough to me.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

And look what Liverpool are doing to Man City...

[BS4 on Tour...]

11 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

We were always going to struggle in the new year with our fixture overload....

‘Fixture overload’?! We play the same number of league games as every other team in our division...does two matches vs Man City equate to an ‘overload’?! You can’t count the FA Cup game vs Watford because every other Championship team had an FA Cup game in the new year....some had more than one...

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Who were all these players available in the transfer window who we failed to buy? The fact is we signed a striker who had previously cost a lot of money, a Premiership player who had proved himself in the Premiership, and a promising young player for the future.  Most people were pleased with those signings, and few could have predicted that Kent and Diony would have been such a let-down, but most clubs are taking a punt in the January window.

In terms of transfer window names.

Whilst I think Kent and Walsh signed for right reasons and I supported Diony loan on paper...instead of Diony looking back, one out of Afobe, Grabban or Mitrovic on loan...icing on the cake, would have been great!

(I say this as someone who doesn't see 'names' as the catch all solution, or Boro and Villa as top 2).

Additionally, I accept that Afobe to Wolves maybe logical as he knows the club- but Grabban or Mitrovic instead of Diony... Then Kent and Walsh, looks a lot better suddenly.

[Davefevs]

13 hours ago, Andy082005 said:

Ok, I'll stick my head above the parapet here....as I am sure I am one of the posters you are referring to

I cannot speak for everyone who criticises Johnson on this forum, I can only speak for myself.  Firstly, I have nothing personal against LJ, and contrary to public belief....I am not 'buzzing' because 'I can finally go back to thrashing his tactics and selections'. I will start by giving the guy credit.  It got to December time, we were playing some fantastic stuff and I genuinely thought, as a coach and a set of players, we had started to mature. 

Since then, I am, like everyone, disappointed and frustrated at how this season is panning out.  Yes...we are still 7th, however the run of form we are on, and more importantly...the performances we have been turning in....are alarming to say the least.  If we are brutally honest....its not far off relegation form.  I really thought Johnson and his staff had learnt from mistakes made last season, however the last 3 months is starting to say otherwise

With  regards his selections, tactics and subs....we have every right to criticise them as some of them have been diabolical.  I am  not talking about selections that in hindsight, we think "ahh that may have been a better option".  I'm talking about decisions like...to name a couple....  starting Diony vs Cardiff, which completely changed the way we play, and of course deciding to start Walsh and Kent against Brentford, when one is clearly not ready for Championship football  and the other is just not 'right' for our style.  I stand by what I said before, I believe a lot of the success he had before Christmas was down to the fact we had so many injuries...and he could not tinker! He tries to get to clever, rotate things about...and it complete upsets the balance of the team and our performances suffer

These runs of bad form he keeps going on concerns me.  It happened at Barnsley, and its now happened twice here.  These are not just a few games where we have a blip, these are runs of form that mirror relegation form. How many times can we say " he will learn from this".  I have often thought as a group of players we have a soft underbelly, and we are weak mentally.  His latest comments about "needing to be loved or they will go under"....I find staggering.  It is his job to prepare his players for when they get on that pitch...both physically and mentally....and if they "need to be loved" as he puts it...then that says to me that they are weak mentally.  None of these players will kick on and make it in the Prem if they are struggling to deal with the pressure they are under now.  

A lot of my current frustrations to be fair revolve around the club, not just Johnson. The way we have thrown the towel in as a club since January is so disappointing.  The January transfer window was shocking, and we really missed an opportunity. At the time many fans questioned our January transfer window....and to be fair, its been proven they had every right to. We were in such a fantastic position and we have all but let it slip. It frustrates me when people talk about it being a tough league and we are competing with bigger clubs with bigger budgets.  That may be true but teams like Preston, Millwall and Sheffield United all have smaller budgets then us...and I actually believe we will finish below all three come the end of the season

Back to the point of LJ.  I  will try to look at it a bit more from yours and others perspective and that is, if you take in to account league position...we have progressed since last year.  For me though, the progress, confidence and momentum built up from before Christmas is all but gone and is a distant memory.....and as we come to the end of the season and build for another season in the Championship, I don't have any confidence that Johnson or these players have learnt from the mistakes made last season, and again this season.  

We are not mentally strong enough to become a top 6 team, and as a coach that is LJ's job to coach the players mentally and I dont think he has the attributes to turn that round.  I really don't see any difference next season.  I know I will get abused with comments like "oh you own a crystal ball do you?" or "do you have the lottery numbers to?".....but I really can see us scrapping at the wrong end of the table again next season

Again, contrary to belief....I don't 'love it' when the wheels come off.  I do not want Johnson to fail.    I can honestly say I would love this to end up as another "Robbored/Gary Johnson" situation....where in years to come people constantly remind me of how wrong I was.  Fingers crossed

 

 

 

13 hours ago, Robbored said:

Impatience OE and pointing the finger at LJ who despite a horrendous injury list got us high up in the Championship only for our form to dip subsequently. Even now with 18 points up for grabs City are just one point off the pray-offs. A pretty good season overall even if we miss out on the pray-offs.

If you see LJ as culpable for said dip you must give him huge credit to him for getting up near the top of the Championship in the first place.

The only time LJ has got it completely wrong was against Brentford. He selected a team to counter their way of playing - wrong! 

Leaving Pack on the bench and playing Wright at LB were two very reckless errors. He subbed Wright who got booed off - poor bugger and brought on the left footed Kelly and post match said he'd made the change because he wanted natural left sided player.........

Apart from that I can't remember any other game when he got it so badly wrong so overall I reckon LJ has done a decent job, turning us around from a relegation bound outfit to a promotion candidate in around 18/12. 

 

 

11 hours ago, Jack Dawe said:

I don't think he "fluked" the turnaround last season. I think he persevered too long with toxic Tomlin, was too indecisive, gave him too many chances, tried too long to make our record signing work/not a flop, thought he had the "emotional intelligence" to manage a gifted tw*t but was forced to concede Tomlin was beyond his abilities, then when he finally gave up on him and used Taylor and team work and togetherness - no one bigger than the team/club and all that - we flourished.

 

Some good posts in all of the responses, a sample above, all coming at it in slightly different directions.

Apart from the very, very small number on here who just troll, most will agree that:

- we have progressed from the last 2 seasons

- overall, against expectations at start of the season, we are having a very good season

- the run since Xmas has been disappointing, frustrating, etc

- a few games where team selection has been questionable 

Big disagreement on here Re:

- transfer window

- whether we will make playoffs or not

Usual stuff that comes out in a bad run:

- dressing room has been lost / there’s been a big bust-up between x and y, Engvall is the spawn of Satan, etc

- manager is out of his depth

However, amongst all of this, this is a forum, and without our differing opinions in some cases, our agreement in others, it would be like a lot of other clubs forum....boring.  It’s actually been fairly amiable on here.

Personally I like Johnson, he’s made some mistakes, some root cause going back to the Good run.  My criticism is partly out of frustration from seeing us slip.  But we are still in with a huge chance of reaching the playoffs.  Johnson needs to find a spark from a set of players who in some cases have ‘hit the wall’.  I thought today’s interview was positive.  A good manager will find a way to energise his players at this crucial time.  I hope he can.  I hope the players can rally together too.  Big test ahead.

 

[Robbored]

Well said Davefevs, well balanced and thought out. Even Bob liked it so it must be a good post.....

[Olé]

It's the way of the world at the moment (just look at Twitter) but this is a massive generalisation. If you disliked LJ last season you dislike him now? If you're critical now it is just deep seated dislike? There's probably some of that at work, but I'm not sure why everything in the world now has to be so tribal and black and white (don't even get me started on politics). Is it not possible that there is some nuance and people can actually judge things in the moment, not according to pre-held beliefs?

I imagine I'd fall into the "happy clapper" bracket for much of this season, I've talked up everything LJ and the team have done, and with reason. Last season I didn't see what he was doing and called it out. But we've almost gone full circle, at the moment I really worry about what I'm seeing (regardless of season-on-season progress on league position) and I don't see why such a judgement should be automatically clouded by prior opinion, or be written off as a resurrection of some prior grudge.

There's lots to be positive about, but lets be clear here - this isn't simply the swings and roundabouts of the season. In the past 3-4 weeks we have played some average teams and not simply struggled, we have literally looked devoid of any idea whatsoever. Teams lose form yes, but they don't fall off a cliff virtually overnight. All this 7th place stuff: the time to be level headed was the Sunderland and Leeds games, which were frustrating but out of context, and the meltdown on here was embarrassing.

But in my view we are now suddenly in a phase that calls into question our progress and the managers judgement (factor out the decimated Wednesday team and it's been going on since the non-event at Cardiff too). Preston was awful. Burton was a 3-4 year low. Barnsley was shocking. Brentford you all saw. How does that happen to a team we all raved about for 5 months? Yes other clubs hit bad patches but not total disintegration. Even set against last year, it's Forest or Preston away levels of bad.

So I don't agree you can simply lump the reaction to present form into a box marked "LJ out trolls from last season". I know the world is now people who pick a view and then defend it to the death (lapping up anything that will support their "confirmation bias"), but give OTIB credit, there is still plenty of nuance - look at performances in isolation. I do, and that is why I respectfully say all this 7th place, in with a shout stuff doesn't wash. I remain positive, but something is very wrong again at the club.

I don't know what it is - lack of leadership, bust up with the manager, fitness issues, coaching of new tactics confusing the players - I have no idea. I wish I did, but you can't explain away the tactically devoid and "we've never met each other before" performances of the past month as simply a drop off in form. The whole implausibility of it - and against some largely inferior teams - is why I can't simply assume this season represents progress we've "banked", because I'm no longer sure that we have.

(I will be both happy and clapping on Saturday, if that helps).

[BobBobSuperBob]

10 minutes ago, Olé said:

It's the way of the world at the moment (just look at Twitter) but this is a massive generalisation. If you disliked LJ last season you dislike him now? If you're critical now it is just deep seated dislike? There's probably some of that at work, but I'm not sure why everything in the world now has to be so tribal and black and white (don't even get me started on politics). Is it not possible that there is some nuance and people can actually judge things in the moment, not according to pre-held beliefs?

I imagine I'd fall into the "happy clapper" bracket for much of this season, I've talked up everything LJ and the team have done, and with reason. Last season I didn't see what he was doing and called it out. But we've almost gone full circle, at the moment I really worry about what I'm seeing (regardless of season-on-season progress on league position) and I don't see why such a judgement should be automatically clouded by prior opinion, or be written off as a resurrection of some prior grudge.

There's lots to be positive about, but lets be clear here - this isn't simply the swings and roundabouts of the season. In the past 3-4 weeks we have played some average teams and not simply struggled, we have literally looked devoid of any idea whatsoever. Teams lose form yes, but they don't fall off a cliff virtually overnight. All this 7th place stuff: the time to be level headed was the Sunderland and Leeds games, which were frustrating but out of context, and the meltdown on here was embarrassing.

But in my view we are now suddenly in a phase that calls into question our progress and the managers judgement (factor out the decimated Wednesday team and it's been going on since the non-event at Cardiff too). Preston was awful. Burton was a 3-4 year low. Barnsley was shocking. Brentford you all saw. How does that happen to a team we all raved about for 5 months? Yes other clubs hit bad patches but not total disintegration. Even set against last year, it's Forest or Preston away levels of bad.

So I don't agree you can simply lump the reaction to present form into a box marked "LJ out trolls from last season". I know the world is now people who pick a view and then defend it to the death (lapping up anything that will support their "confirmation bias"), but give OTIB credit, there is still plenty of nuance - look at performances in isolation. I do, and that is why I respectfully say all this 7th place, in with a shout stuff doesn't wash. I remain positive, but something is very wrong again at the club.

I don't know what it is - lack of leadership, bust up with the manager, fitness issues, coaching of new tactics confusing the players - I have no idea. I wish I did, but you can't explain away the tactically devoid and "we've never met each other before" performances of the past month as simply a drop off in form. The whole implausibility of it - and against some largely inferior teams - is why I can't simply assume this season represents progress we've "banked", because I'm no longer sure that we have.

(I will be both happy and clapping on Saturday, if that helps).

Very good post Ole

You summarise thoughts of a lot , I think there 

I felt we’ve looked increasingly disjointed since Xmas (Sheff Weds was a bizarre out of sequence ‘performance’ but difficult to judge against a dreadful Weds side) 

inthought the second half minute by minute capitulation against Sunderland was a real sign of concern and seemed to drain us of confidence and belief (A game where Lee messed up IMHO not making changes to address the tide) and merely helped in a slide we had already showed signs of

Truly baffling , but good or decent sides don’t hit these slumps for these elongated periods

To me we (The players) look confused about our current plan/ way of playing and at times it looks like there are players trying to play in two or three different methods / plans at the same time , and on Monday looked like they’ were trialists and had never met each other

I’ve seen good City sides , poor City sides , sides somewhere in between but don’t think in nigh in 50yrs I’ve seen such a Jekyll and hide between the Cup games and a spell of League games including the defeat to Wolves and the recent 3 month spell and in particular the Brentford debacle which more than anything totally shocked me in how every single aspect was poor - there were no consolations to hang onto we lacked everything from technique to desire and character

I have my own views about some aspects of our change in our way of playing but that doesn’t account for all the negative signs that showed up on Monday

Truly baffling

 

 

 

 

[Olé]

14 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

thought the second half minute by minute capitulation against Sunderland was a real sign of concern and seemed to drain us of confidence and belief (A game where Lee messed up IMHO not making changes to address the tide) and merely helped in a slide we had already showed signs of

Very kind mate (and pleased to have you back) but I actually disagree a little with this. As stated, I didn't feel particularly aggrieved by the Sunderland or Leeds games at all. Frustrating of course, but I saw a team that in patches played some decent stuff (as of course it should do to score 5 goals), made some stupid mistakes, and was on the receiving end of what, certainly in the case of the Sunderland game, was a freak result (certainly a freak equaliser).

I honestly see more in common in the Sunderland game with our good form earlier in the season, than I do the past 4-5 matches, and I guess that's the point that I was trying to get across. I have very serious concerns precisely because this isn't one long deteriorating slump in form. What I have seen since Preston, and certainly in the last 4 games, is a team and pattern of play that is so far off everything before it, I no longer know if we've made progress.

Peoples view of progress seems to centre on our relative league position, but play like we have for the past month for any extended period of time and we will only be going out of this division one way. The fact this current run is relatively recent should matter little. A team that is supposed to have made lasting progress would not have produced the performances against Burton, Barnsley and Brentford. Maybe one, but not all three. Something is wrong.

[BTRFTG]

21 hours ago, RedDave said:

People who slag off the signing of Taylor Moore wind me up.  Either not bright enough to understand the signing or purposely pretending not to understand it in order to moan

No wind up and a serious question but as one of those cretins not able to understand why we blew £1.5m upfront  (and doubtless as much again in contract liability,) on Taylor Moore, a young player with very scant record, I'd be interested to ascertain the answer? Either he was a precocious talent and we've coached that out of him, else we identified he had potential and failed to develop him.  Either way, in the brief time here he showed little. 

Now I've no idea how the development powerhouses of Bury and Cheltenham are supposed to outperform our award winning academy (sic) but last year he wasn't exactly a regular at Bury and from their fans comments wasn't what they led to believe they were getting (many described him in terms his mother wouldn't want hearing.) If 'scoring for Cheltenham' now rates at £3m then I'd suggest I'm not alone in my stupidity.

Thinking about it there is a third option. That our scouts and coaches made a mistake. That the lad's not that exceptional and never will be. In that respect he'll join the long line of 'next great things' to enjoy long careers way down the pyramid. Not all however cost seven figure sums.

[BobBobSuperBob]

14 minutes ago, Olé said:

Very kind mate (and pleased to have you back) but I actually disagree a little with this. As stated, I didn't feel particularly aggrieved by the Sunderland or Leeds games at all. Frustrating of course, but I saw a team that in patches played some decent stuff (as of course it should do to score 5 goals), made some stupid mistakes, and was on the receiving end of what, certainly in the case of the Sunderland game, was a freak result (certainly a freak equaliser).

I honestly see more in common in the Sunderland game with our good form earlier in the season, than I do the past 4-5 matches, and I guess that's the point that I was trying to get across. I have very serious concerns precisely because this isn't one long deteriorating slump in form. What I have seen since Preston, and certainly in the last 4 games, is a team and pattern of play that is so far off everything before it, I no longer know if we've made progress.

Peoples view of progress seems to centre on our relative league position, but play like we have for the past month for any extended period of time and we will only be going out of this division one way. The fact this current run is relatively recent should matter little. A team that is supposed to have made lasting progress would not have produced the performances against Burton, Barnsley and Brentford. Maybe one, but not all three. Something is wrong.

Thanks Rob

As always , due to your astute observations and the continuity of your reports , and the amount you watch us , I take real indicators by your reports mate - so thanks for this seasons assessments

Intersting your observations on the Sunderland & Leeds games

Thought we played poorly or at least looked laboured even in wins against Reading , QPR etc but looked reasonably solid

In  the  second half against Sunderland I felt we retreated and retreated minute by minute as I though the confidence literally drained from us , you could see it / ‘smell’ it in the players and amongst the fans (A ‘here we go’ feeling) 

But I take onboard your view., seeing all the games and changing picture 

I’d be interested  Which / first game did you think ‘Blimey what’s happening here’ 

I keep thinking we will see a ‘reaction’ to the last performance but even that’s not happening

Baffling

 

 

Nice to see you back too @BRISTOL86

 

 

[cidered abroad]

I don't dislike, detest, hate Lee Johnson.

I don't love, adore, think the world of him.

My thoughts are simply based on 68 years of supporting City, how we are performing, what we are doing right, what we are doing wrong.

The nearest parallel I can remember is the management spell of Peter Doherty in 1957 to 1959.

When he arrived , things picked up and we looked a useful side at this level. But a row about players contracts produced a split dressing room and within a year he'd gone and we got relegated.

I'm not saying that LJ has done the same as Doherty, but there are the early signs that the team spirit, the togetherness that was there until Christmas is gone. Players reactions to others mistakes, a lessening of the effort to cover others mistakes is there now.

If this us not sorted NOW, I see only one conclusion next season.

1960, 1980, 1981, 1982, 1995, 1999, 2013.

If LJ can sort it, that's fine. But I seriously doubt that he has the ability so to do.

[BRISTOL86]

Thanks @BobBobSuperBob 

I took a short self imposed break for the purpose of my own mental well-being....

Now I’m back I remember why!!

[Crisis what Crisis ?]

On 4/4/2018 at 07:41, Robbored said:

Yet another poster who just doesn't understand what the long term strategy is at AG..

Has L J started posting on here now then ??

[Crisis what Crisis ?]

....don't lose sleep over it.....an apparently unsuccessful attempt at ' humour ' ( ...implying LJ doesn't know blah blah blah.....i'll get my coat....)

[EstoniaTallinnRed]

On 04/04/2018 at 10:46, Andy082005 said:

Ok, I'll stick my head above the parapet here....as I am sure I am one of the posters you are referring to

I cannot speak for everyone who criticises Johnson on this forum, I can only speak for myself.  Firstly, I have nothing personal against LJ, and contrary to public belief....I am not 'buzzing' because 'I can finally go back to thrashing his tactics and selections'. I will start by giving the guy credit.  It got to December time, we were playing some fantastic stuff and I genuinely thought, as a coach and a set of players, we had started to mature. 

Since then, I am, like everyone, disappointed and frustrated at how this season is panning out.  Yes...we are still 7th, however the run of form we are on, and more importantly...the performances we have been turning in....are alarming to say the least.  If we are brutally honest....its not far off relegation form.  I really thought Johnson and his staff had learnt from mistakes made last season, however the last 3 months is starting to say otherwise

With  regards his selections, tactics and subs....we have every right to criticise them as some of them have been diabolical.  I am  not talking about selections that in hindsight, we think "ahh that may have been a better option".  I'm talking about decisions like...to name a couple....  starting Diony vs Cardiff, which completely changed the way we play, and of course deciding to start Walsh and Kent against Brentford, when one is clearly not ready for Championship football  and the other is just not 'right' for our style.  I stand by what I said before, I believe a lot of the success he had before Christmas was down to the fact we had so many injuries...and he could not tinker! He tries to get to clever, rotate things about...and it complete upsets the balance of the team and our performances suffer

These runs of bad form he keeps going on concerns me.  It happened at Barnsley, and its now happened twice here.  These are not just a few games where we have a blip, these are runs of form that mirror relegation form. How many times can we say " he will learn from this".  I have often thought as a group of players we have a soft underbelly, and we are weak mentally.  His latest comments about "needing to be loved or they will go under"....I find staggering.  It is his job to prepare his players for when they get on that pitch...both physically and mentally....and if they "need to be loved" as he puts it...then that says to me that they are weak mentally.  None of these players will kick on and make it in the Prem if they are struggling to deal with the pressure they are under now.  

A lot of my current frustrations to be fair revolve around the club, not just Johnson. The way we have thrown the towel in as a club since January is so disappointing.  The January transfer window was shocking, and we really missed an opportunity. At the time many fans questioned our January transfer window....and to be fair, its been proven they had every right to. We were in such a fantastic position and we have all but let it slip. It frustrates me when people talk about it being a tough league and we are competing with bigger clubs with bigger budgets.  That may be true but teams like Preston, Millwall and Sheffield United all have smaller budgets then us...and I actually believe we will finish below all three come the end of the season

Back to the point of LJ.  I  will try to look at it a bit more from yours and others perspective and that is, if you take in to account league position...we have progressed since last year.  For me though, the progress, confidence and momentum built up from before Christmas is all but gone and is a distant memory.....and as we come to the end of the season and build for another season in the Championship, I don't have any confidence that Johnson or these players have learnt from the mistakes made last season, and again this season.  

We are not mentally strong enough to become a top 6 team, and as a coach that is LJ's job to coach the players mentally and I dont think he has the attributes to turn that round.  I really don't see any difference next season.  I know I will get abused with comments like "oh you own a crystal ball do you?" or "do you have the lottery numbers to?".....but I really can see us scrapping at the wrong end of the table again next season

Again, contrary to belief....I don't 'love it' when the wheels come off.  I do not want Johnson to fail.    I can honestly say I would love this to end up as another "Robbored/Gary Johnson" situation....where in years to come people constantly remind me of how wrong I was.  Fingers crossed

 

 

Well said and exactly as it is, I am  surprised more members don't see it as you do.  I certainly do!

[Major Isewater]

On 04/04/2018 at 12:55, General Zod said:

It’s possible to separate the two though Robbored.  A long term strategy still needs the right man at the helm.  We have run out of ideas as an attacking force and our once coveted footballing identity has vanished.  For too long now we have lost our way especially away from home and I’m struggling to think of another time I’ve seen a team go from world beaters to panel beaters in such a short space of time.  Let’s be fair, LJ has a fairly unspectacular CV as a manager, he has an unenviable record of struggling to address bad runs, is inexperienced and has surrounded himself with people with even less experience.  When the team and formation picked itself he was great and I can see how his personality rubbed off on those pulling on the shirt.  When the bad form needed stamping out and quickly he was found wanting and now with a near full squad at his disposal his inexperience and desire to over think things is there for all to see.  LJ May  well turn in to a fantastic manager, let’s hope so as he’s going nowhere and you can’t fault the effort and commitment he brings to the job.  I just think that a Championship club is not the right place to do your apprenticeship.  He should have been left to learn his trade and build his CV in the lower leagues before joining us.  If this wasn’t an option then he needed an old, experienced head alongside side him to nurture him through the early years as a championship manager.

I agree with much of your post but weren't Oldham and Barnsley those lower league clubs ?

[RobintheRed Red]

On 04/04/2018 at 08:46, Andy082005 said:

Ok, I'll stick my head above the parapet here....as I am sure I am one of the posters you are referring to

I cannot speak for everyone who criticises Johnson on this forum, I can only speak for myself.  Firstly, I have nothing personal against LJ, and contrary to public belief....I am not 'buzzing' because 'I can finally go back to thrashing his tactics and selections'. I will start by giving the guy credit.  It got to December time, we were playing some fantastic stuff and I genuinely thought, as a coach and a set of players, we had started to mature. 

Since then, I am, like everyone, disappointed and frustrated at how this season is panning out.  Yes...we are still 7th, however the run of form we are on, and more importantly...the performances we have been turning in....are alarming to say the least.  If we are brutally honest....its not far off relegation form.  I really thought Johnson and his staff had learnt from mistakes made last season, however the last 3 months is starting to say otherwise

With  regards his selections, tactics and subs....we have every right to criticise them as some of them have been diabolical.  I am  not talking about selections that in hindsight, we think "ahh that may have been a better option".  I'm talking about decisions like...to name a couple....  starting Diony vs Cardiff, which completely changed the way we play, and of course deciding to start Walsh and Kent against Brentford, when one is clearly not ready for Championship football  and the other is just not 'right' for our style.  I stand by what I said before, I believe a lot of the success he had before Christmas was down to the fact we had so many injuries...and he could not tinker! He tries to get to clever, rotate things about...and it complete upsets the balance of the team and our performances suffer

These runs of bad form he keeps going on concerns me.  It happened at Barnsley, and its now happened twice here.  These are not just a few games where we have a blip, these are runs of form that mirror relegation form. How many times can we say " he will learn from this".  I have often thought as a group of players we have a soft underbelly, and we are weak mentally.  His latest comments about "needing to be loved or they will go under"....I find staggering.  It is his job to prepare his players for when they get on that pitch...both physically and mentally....and if they "need to be loved" as he puts it...then that says to me that they are weak mentally.  None of these players will kick on and make it in the Prem if they are struggling to deal with the pressure they are under now.  

A lot of my current frustrations to be fair revolve around the club, not just Johnson. The way we have thrown the towel in as a club since January is so disappointing.  The January transfer window was shocking, and we really missed an opportunity. At the time many fans questioned our January transfer window....and to be fair, its been proven they had every right to. We were in such a fantastic position and we have all but let it slip. It frustrates me when people talk about it being a tough league and we are competing with bigger clubs with bigger budgets.  That may be true but teams like Preston, Millwall and Sheffield United all have smaller budgets then us...and I actually believe we will finish below all three come the end of the season

Back to the point of LJ.  I  will try to look at it a bit more from yours and others perspective and that is, if you take in to account league position...we have progressed since last year.  For me though, the progress, confidence and momentum built up from before Christmas is all but gone and is a distant memory.....and as we come to the end of the season and build for another season in the Championship, I don't have any confidence that Johnson or these players have learnt from the mistakes made last season, and again this season.  

We are not mentally strong enough to become a top 6 team, and as a coach that is LJ's job to coach the players mentally and I dont think he has the attributes to turn that round.  I really don't see any difference next season.  I know I will get abused with comments like "oh you own a crystal ball do you?" or "do you have the lottery numbers to?".....but I really can see us scrapping at the wrong end of the table again next season

Again, contrary to belief....I don't 'love it' when the wheels come off.  I do not want Johnson to fail.    I can honestly say I would love this to end up as another "Robbored/Gary Johnson" situation....where in years to come people constantly remind me of how wrong I was.  Fingers crossed

 

 

Great post exactly all this bollox about hes learning is he  really ?you got to wonder about the non inclusion of pack and Baker weve all been disapointed when these guys are injured or suspended but he finds it in his wisdom to leave them out fall outs mentioned im not sure but he did publically moan an slate Baker after the Burtin game

[General Zod]

1 hour ago, Major Isewater said:

I agree with much of your post but weren't Oldham and Barnsley those lower league clubs ?

Agree but For me LJ didn’t stay at either long enough, or achieve anything overly spectacular to make me think he had completed his apprenticeship and was ready for the step up.  I’m probably talking rubbish as I have no facts to back it up but I’d be surprised if at the time LJ was on our radar there weren’t other young managers with as much potential and a better track record just not the close ties to the club and SL.  LJ with longevity and the overwhelming backing of the board could go on to become an amazing manager, he certainly seems to put the hours in however he’s well short of that standard at the moment and still has too much to learn for me to think he’s right for us at this point in his career and the clubs evolution.

[Gert Mare]

On 04/04/2018 at 08:46, Andy082005 said:

Ok, I'll stick my head above the parapet here....as I am sure I am one of the posters you are referring to

I cannot speak for everyone who criticises Johnson on this forum, I can only speak for myself.  Firstly, I have nothing personal against LJ, and contrary to public belief....I am not 'buzzing' because 'I can finally go back to thrashing his tactics and selections'. I will start by giving the guy credit.  It got to December time, we were playing some fantastic stuff and I genuinely thought, as a coach and a set of players, we had started to mature. 

Since then, I am, like everyone, disappointed and frustrated at how this season is panning out.  Yes...we are still 7th, however the run of form we are on, and more importantly...the performances we have been turning in....are alarming to say the least.  If we are brutally honest....its not far off relegation form.  I really thought Johnson and his staff had learnt from mistakes made last season, however the last 3 months is starting to say otherwise

With  regards his selections, tactics and subs....we have every right to criticise them as some of them have been diabolical.  I am  not talking about selections that in hindsight, we think "ahh that may have been a better option".  I'm talking about decisions like...to name a couple....  starting Diony vs Cardiff, which completely changed the way we play, and of course deciding to start Walsh and Kent against Brentford, when one is clearly not ready for Championship football  and the other is just not 'right' for our style.  I stand by what I said before, I believe a lot of the success he had before Christmas was down to the fact we had so many injuries...and he could not tinker! He tries to get to clever, rotate things about...and it complete upsets the balance of the team and our performances suffer

These runs of bad form he keeps going on concerns me.  It happened at Barnsley, and its now happened twice here.  These are not just a few games where we have a blip, these are runs of form that mirror relegation form. How many times can we say " he will learn from this".  I have often thought as a group of players we have a soft underbelly, and we are weak mentally.  His latest comments about "needing to be loved or they will go under"....I find staggering.  It is his job to prepare his players for when they get on that pitch...both physically and mentally....and if they "need to be loved" as he puts it...then that says to me that they are weak mentally.  None of these players will kick on and make it in the Prem if they are struggling to deal with the pressure they are under now.  

A lot of my current frustrations to be fair revolve around the club, not just Johnson. The way we have thrown the towel in as a club since January is so disappointing.  The January transfer window was shocking, and we really missed an opportunity. At the time many fans questioned our January transfer window....and to be fair, its been proven they had every right to. We were in such a fantastic position and we have all but let it slip. It frustrates me when people talk about it being a tough league and we are competing with bigger clubs with bigger budgets.  That may be true but teams like Preston, Millwall and Sheffield United all have smaller budgets then us...and I actually believe we will finish below all three come the end of the season

Back to the point of LJ.  I  will try to look at it a bit more from yours and others perspective and that is, if you take in to account league position...we have progressed since last year.  For me though, the progress, confidence and momentum built up from before Christmas is all but gone and is a distant memory.....and as we come to the end of the season and build for another season in the Championship, I don't have any confidence that Johnson or these players have learnt from the mistakes made last season, and again this season.  

We are not mentally strong enough to become a top 6 team, and as a coach that is LJ's job to coach the players mentally and I dont think he has the attributes to turn that round.  I really don't see any difference next season.  I know I will get abused with comments like "oh you own a crystal ball do you?" or "do you have the lottery numbers to?".....but I really can see us scrapping at the wrong end of the table again next season

Again, contrary to belief....I don't 'love it' when the wheels come off.  I do not want Johnson to fail.    I can honestly say I would love this to end up as another "Robbored/Gary Johnson" situation....where in years to come people constantly remind me of how wrong I was.  Fingers crossed

 

 

Agree mate. I actually believed myself that Lee Johnson had learned from the mistakes of the past and we were playing some excellent football at times towards Christmas. We also were creating plenty of chances, but weren’t clinical enough I felt at the time, although we didn’t need to be because we were creating opportunities.

Now we have stopped creating those opportunities and the few we do get shows up how we aren’t clinical enough.

It is like last season and LJ has gone big time tinker man in an effort to find a plan b. That is a massive worry.

Surely this is what we need to be focussing on, as well as some inventive set play routines rather than “hitting Flint at the back post”?

To think we are 6 games away from the end of the season and the games are tactically being treated as “practice” matches with the playoffs at stake is nuts!!

It seems that we are sacrificing vital points in an attempt to play beautiful entertaining football, but we don’t have the strength in depth for that as we are not Premier League.

Our recent performances have been poor but we also have injuries, suspensions and players out of form and out of position.

The players have got to step it up and LJ has to be able to learn to ge the best out of what he has got at his disposal. This is an area where I think his inexperience shows up. Sometimes it ain’t gonna be pretty.

[Red-Robbo]

Like the team and the wider club structure in general, Lee Johnson is a manager in the making. A man who is learning his trade. A man with many admirable qualities, but some weaknesses too.

Why I feel comfortable with him at the helm, despite some huge clangers dropped recently, is he is - in my estimation - an intelligent guy who will learn from his mistakes.

He won't be stuck at one level. This is a manager who will improve, and address the areas where he's weak.