Is Lee Johnson in credit?

[Davefevs]

Bob - to answer your Q......No.

I probably wouldn’t have signed Diedhiou either, despite his success (depends on your definition of success).  I like him, but I do think he contradicts the style LJ says he wants to play.

I would’ve signed Woodrow though.  Still think given game time and good man-management he would’ve been a good foil for Reid....and allowed Reid the odd rest too.

[RobintheRed Red]

16 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I loved Cotts....shame he couldn’t take us forward.

or wasnt given the funds johnson has wasted

[Dullmoan Tone]

He was in credit for his ability to save our season, but I think he is now overdrawn because:

he still doesn't know his best team and their most effective formation - this is depressing

he has proven twice that he unable to stem terrible and sustained runs of poor performances (which makes him doubt his best team - see above)

he has wasted such a big proportion of our wages on players who cannot make an impact (Diony, Woodrow, O'Neil, Engvall, Eliasson etc etc)

With one or two notable exceptions, he struggles to coach noticeable improvements in players in training or during the game - his prematch comments always seem to imply tactical changes need substitutions.

The problem is an experienced manager would make us financially overdrawn, as they would probably not work exclusively with young and future prospects but definitely still not in credit

[joeyb]

8 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Interesting how you decide to view it and I’ve not unintentionally proved your point

If you want to argue that in his 2 1/2 seasons he’s kept us up  as some special accolade

His finishes 18th after a relegation battle , 17th after a relegation battle and a likely 11th / 10th

His Father (After turning us around from the gates of L2 and after adding another promotion on his CV ) , without the extensive resources laid at Lees door had us  4th , 10th and we were comfortable in 12th when he was ousted , and we unsurprisingly survived that 3rd Championship season

So for you to try and claim that LJ has done something special or of merit is both bemusing and laughable

For their respective 2 (and part of a third) seasons in Championship

18th 17th & 11th 

Or 

4th , 10th and 12th

 

You do the maths......

 

 

His first season you have as 18th but we definitely weren't 18th when he took over. So another way of looking at it is steady progression - note 11th is the worst we can finish this season. GJ oversaw continuous regression from the first season in the Championship with an old overpaid squad when in comparison you could argue the current squad is opposite.

Cotts blew the potential momentum that often teams get coming up from L1 in their first season, not LJ. LJ had to build from an unconfident relegation threatened side.

[BobBobSuperBob]

4 minutes ago, joeyb said:

His first season you have as 18th but we definitely weren't 18th when he took over. So another way of looking at it is steady progression - note 11th is the worst we can finish this season. GJ oversaw continuous regression from the first season in the Championship with an old overpaid squad when in comparison you could argue the current squad is opposite.

Cotts blew the potential momentum that often teams get coming up from L1 in their first season, not LJ. LJ had to build from an unconfident relegation threatened side.

You view it however you wish

He didn’t build too well as last season we escaped relegation just  

[joeyb]

Just now, BobBobSuperBob said:

You view it however you wish

He didn’t build too well as last season we escaped relegation just  

Could say the same to you. But ultimately, every season we have improved positionally and points-wise under LJ with the opposite true for your compraison. That's a fact, not a view.

[BobBobSuperBob]

Just now, joeyb said:

Could say the same to you. But ultimately, every season we have improved positionally and points-wise under LJ with the opposite true for your compraison. That's a fact, not a view.

After being backed to recruit 30 players at considerable cost and considerably more than some out performing us

Thats also a fact

He also took us on our worst defeat run in our history.  also a Fact

[joeyb]

Just now, BobBobSuperBob said:

After being backed to recruit 30 players at considerable cost and considerably more than some out performing us

Thats also a fact

He also took us on our worst defeat run in our history.  also a Fact

I'm not 100% sure on the number but if it's based on that list that has been brought up on a few recent threads, the Jan 2016 signings (about 6/7) weren't LJ as he wasn't in position then.

Also a number of those players - think De Girolamo, Ekstrand, Lucic, and a few of the loans - would have been free and low wages. Also a reasonably substantial proportion of that list are young players, who should improve (which LJ has shown on multiple occasions he is capable of doing) coupled with the fact that he took over SC's threadbare squad which needed beefing out, I really don't view the recruitment since he's been in as that bad.

I'll give you Engvall (who was probably a panic buy following Kodjia's departure) and Diony however!

[Mr Popodopolous]

 

4 hours ago, RobintheRed Red said:

or wasnt given the funds johnson has wasted

We were not in a solid place financially at that stage though. Cotts did a great job and yes he signed Kodjia an undoubted success, which also yielded a good profit.

However, if you recall we had gates of 16k first year up because redevelopment was still ongoing. The corporate facilities were not fully done as the Lansdown was still being built and lastly we had no profit from Kodjia or sell on clause from Bolasie.

I believe with FFP in play and with the limitations still on the budget at this time, was it that we didn't give Cotts the money... or couldn't?

[BobBobSuperBob]

5 minutes ago, joeyb said:

I'm not 100% sure on the number but if it's based on that list that has been brought up on a few recent threads, the Jan 2016 signings (about 6/7) weren't LJ as he wasn't in position then.

Also a number of those players - think De Girolamo, Ekstrand, Lucic, and a few of the loans - would have been free and low wages. Also a reasonably substantial proportion of that list are young players, who should improve (which LJ has shown on multiple occasions he is capable of doing) coupled with the fact that he took over SC's threadbare squad which needed beefing out, I really don't view the recruitment since he's been in as that bad.

I'll give you Engvall (who was probably a panic buy following Kodjia's departure) and Diony however!

Just Engvall and Diony from that list

Easily pleased eh

 

[finbarr_in_z]

23 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I suspect him, MA and SL will have a very interesting end of season review!

 

SL's a career accountant. He'll look at the books:-

2015/16  (LJ appointed Feb 2016)

18	Bristol City	46	13	13	20	54	71	−17	52

2016/17

17	Bristol City	46	15	9	22	60	66	−6	54

2107/18

11

Bristol City

43

17

14

12

60

50

10

65

His investment has made a year on year improvement.

Position up. Points up. Wins up. Goals up. 

I don't think he's going to let emotion come into this one bit. Even if he does, he'll see that we've been in the public eye for multiple good things (League cup adventure; mid season league position).

To SL LJ will be well in credit, and SL's the one who decides if the manager stays or goes.

 

 

[Hampshire Red]

About 70/100 since the day he walked in to take over a team that was heading fast for league 1. At Xmas /4 months ago he would have been 95/5 and in fairness to the manger he would have probably marked himself more harshly because he is honest enough to admit his mistakes (certain signings,  eg Engval, certain substitutions eg Sunderland H, certain introductions of young players, Kelly yesterday against Traerie.

So after a frustrating, yet understandable January Window i only give him 70/100 and expect this to increase by Xmas 2018

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, finbarr_in_z said:

SL's a career accountant. He'll look at the books:-

2015/16  (LJ appointed Feb 2016)

18	Bristol City	46	13	13	20	54	71	−17	52

2016/17

17	Bristol City	46	15	9	22	60	66	−6	54

2107/18

11

Bristol City

43

17

14

12

60

50

10

65

His investment has made a year on year improvement.

Position up. Points up. Wins up. Goals up. 

I don't think he's going to let emotion come into this one bit. Even if he does, he'll see that we've been in the public eye for multiple good things (League cup adventure; mid season league position).

To SL LJ will be well in credit, and SL's the one who decides if the manager stays or goes.

 

 

Re bold bit....he may look beyond league position, and look at financial return on investment 

[finbarr_in_z]

14 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Re bold bit....he may look beyond league position, and look at financial return on investment 

I think he's given up on that a long time ago.

So maybe he does let his heart rule his head. LJ down on credit then.......

[RobintheRed Red]

21 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

 

We were not in a solid place financially at that stage though. Cotts did a great job and yes he signed Kodjia an undoubted success, which also yielded a good profit.

However, if you recall we had gates of 16k first year up because redevelopment was still ongoing. The corporate facilities were not fully done as the Lansdown was still being built and lastly we had no profit from Kodjia or sell on clause from Bolasie.

I believe with FFP in play and with the limitations still on the budget at this time, was it that we didn't give Cotts the money... or couldn't?

yes you may be right  can recall cotts aiming for top players like Andre Grey an Dwight gayle maybe a pipedream. lansdown was quoted as telling him your moving to fast but we will never know now im sure he wouldnt have signed crap like that was brought in  january gave us a season to remember home and away.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, RobintheRed Red said:

yes you may be right  can recall cotts aiming for top players like Andre Grey an Dwight gayle maybe a pipedream. lansdown was quoted as telling him your moving to fast but we will never know now im sure he wouldnt have signed crap like that was brought in in january gave us a season to remember home and away

Perhaps he should have gone for mid-range players first- this is with the considerable benefit of hindsight though. I remember being excited at the names we were linked with!

The Fredericks thing was odd and disappointing- he's done more than decent at Fulham. Alternatively, had we kept Cunningham and Tavernier for stability and continuity- as well as depth- purposes, the future may have panned out differently, at least for Cotts.

His time here was great.

[Red-Robbo]

He owns loads of apartments in Port Zed, so probably yes, he is in credit - providing he didn't use McIndoe as a financial advisor!  

To be serious, yes, he is. However, does he have the chops to take the club forward .... hmmm. Jury still out there.  Ask me again around Christmas time.

[shelts]

I’m not sure to be honest . This year has been abysmal. Not sure I would trust LJ with a transfer treasure chest in the summer . Not sure the club wanted to go up or where prepared if it might happen . If he was sacked at the end of the season I wouldn’t be saddened. Very worrying our dip of form x 2 

[EnderMB]

A bit late to the party, but in my view yes.

Assuming there's more than what we're seeing now, LJ was never the finished article. Given my predictions for this season (fighting relegation) I'm happy to see us where we are now, even though we've thrown away the chance of automatic promotion and (probably) the playoffs. Deep down, after losing Tammy I didn't remotely think we'd be mid-table.

For me, LJ has repaired the damage from last season, and our cup run puts him in credit for the next season. With that being said, our drop-off at the end of the season is now a trend, and not an outlier. It leads me to believe that LJ pushes the squad hard during this end of the season, and the drop we see is the squad being worn out. Assuming we finish just outside of the playoff places the expectations should be as follows:

• Retain the quality we have in the squad at the moment. That might mean getting rid of a few fringe players.
• Make two or three key signings to boost weaknesses in the squad.
• Have a positive start to the season, much like the last two seasons.
• Check position after every ten games to ensure the playoffs is still on the cards.
• Finish in the playoffs at minimum, barring an injury crisis or other issues out of LJ's control.

In many ways, LJ is a victim of his own success. He's probably got another season with us, but he's not had enough success to have other teams chasing him. He's also set the expectation at Ashton Gate sky high again, back before we were initially relegated. With that being the case, it's now a promotion run or bust for him, and if Lansdown isn't going to back his man we'll have the fans calling for Lansdown's head again.

[RobintheRed Red]

4 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Perhaps he should have gone for mid-range players first- this is with the considerable benefit of hindsight though. I remember being excited at the names we were linked with!

The Fredericks thing was odd and disappointing- he's done more than decent at Fulham. Alternatively, had we kept Cunningham and Tavernier for stability and continuity- as well as depth- purposes, the future may have panned out differently, at least for Cotts.

His time here was great.

yes pity about cunningham and Taverniar we should have kept them in hindsight after watching us for fifty odd years il never forget that season great year 6.0 at Bradford etc something happened between him and lansdown we will never know .

[Mr Popodopolous]

46 minutes ago, RobintheRed Red said:

yes pity about cunningham and Taverniar we should have kept them in hindsight after watching us for fifty odd years il never forget that season great year 6.0 at Bradford etc something happened between him and lansdown we will never know .

Thought we should have kept them both if at all possible- thought similar at the time. Didn't replace Elliott adequately either.

[1960maaan]

We stayed up under him, that's a credit.
Following year, decent start , credit.  Decent finish would have been a credit but,  we had a 5 month spell where we won 4 , drew 4 , and lost 16 ! 16 points out of 72 , less than a point a game and relegation form. Massive, massive negative.
This year decent start, brilliant purple patch big , big credit with the Cup run, and down to earth with a bump. Our current run, 4 - 6 - 9 and 18 points from 57, less than a point a game relegation form but much more than that.  At least the year before we finished the season reasonably, avoiding relegation meant most fans were happy, not satisfied , but happy we stayed up.
To have similar runs, season on season is a real worry. He obviously did learn some from last year, but there is a big doubt over his ability to change things, to really motivate and change attitudes in the squad.   

In my mind I would have to say, not in credit, though I admit I was completely underwhelmed with his appointment so not starting from a plus point. It will be interesting next year, a poor or even average start could be a real worry, one or two bad games will start people thinking about these bad runs. He also has to take responsibility for the poor recruitment . He has come out and said he has the final say, so it doesn't matter what the scouts say, he has the final yes or no.   He needs to provide a team that doesn't suffer from the wild peaks and troughs we've seen this year.

I would say, no credit and a bit of a cloud , who knows what next year will bring.

[RobintheRed Red]

2 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

We stayed up under him, that's a credit.
Following year, decent start , credit.  Decent finish would have been a credit but,  we had a 5 month spell where we won 4 , drew 4 , and lost 16 ! 16 points out of 72 , less than a point a game and relegation form. Massive, massive negative.
This year decent start, brilliant purple patch big , big credit with the Cup run, and down to earth with a bump. Our current run, 4 - 6 - 9 and 18 points from 57, less than a point a game relegation form but much more than that.  At least the year before we finished the season reasonably, avoiding relegation meant most fans were happy, not satisfied , but happy we stayed up.
To have similar runs, season on season is a real worry. He obviously did learn some from last year, but there is a big doubt over his ability to change things, to really motivate and change attitudes in the squad.   

In my mind I would have to say, not in credit, though I admit I was completely underwhelmed with his appointment so not starting from a plus point. It will be interesting next year, a poor or even average start could be a real worry, one or two bad games will start people thinking about these bad runs. He also has to take responsibility for the poor recruitment . He has come out and said he has the final say, so it doesn't matter what the scouts say, he has the final yes or no.   He needs to provide a team that doesn't suffer from the wild peaks and troughs we've seen this year.

I would say, no credit and a bit of a cloud , who knows what next year will bring.

lets hope its not too late when the change is made

[brady bunch]

Yes he is, needs more time and more money, but we have something good developing and it will only get better in my view.

I would go for fewer, but better players next year

[Chairman Mao]

On 15/04/2018 at 08:24, BobBobSuperBob said:

Interesting how you decide to view it and I’ve not unintentionally proved your point

If you want to argue that in his 2 1/2 seasons he’s kept us up  as some special accolade

His finishes 18th after a relegation battle , 17th after a relegation battle and a likely 11th / 10th

His Father (After turning us around from the gates of L2 and after adding another promotion on his CV ) , without the extensive resources laid at Lees door had us  4th , 10th and we were comfortable in 12th when he was ousted , and we unsurprisingly survived that 3rd Championship season

So for you to try and claim that LJ has done something special or of merit is both bemusing and laughable

For their respective 2 (and part of a third) seasons in Championship

18th 17th & 11th 

Or 

4th , 10th and 12th

 

You do the maths......

 

 

LJ Average position - 46/3=15.3

GJ Average position - 26/3= 8.6

#didthemaths. 

[CotswoldRed]

2 hours ago, brady bunch said:

Yes he is, needs more time and more money, but we have something good developing and it will only get better in my view.

I would go for fewer, but better players next year

Would that not up the stakes if we get injuries? 

[BobBobSuperBob]

2 hours ago, brady bunch said:

Yes he is, needs more time and more money, but we have something good developing and it will only get better in my view.

I would go for fewer, but better players next year

Let’s hope he has a well planned and thought out shopping list next time round

 

His recruitment is a bit like him going to Sainsburys to get some ingredients to cook Mrs J a meal

Doesnt have a list as such but has a really nice idea / plan in his head

Once in the store he gets distracted with some fancy packaging and some weekly offers

Returns home with some Yorkshire puddings , a bag of rice. , some washing up powder and some oranges

Emptying his bag on the kitchen worktop he wonders how he’s going to actually make a nice meal ......

[BS4 on Tour...]

4 hours ago, brady bunch said:

Yes he is, needs more time and more money....

That seems to go against our publicly stated strategy, but then again we splashed out £5m on a striker with a worse first touch than me....

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

2 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Let’s hope he has a well planned and thought out shopping list next time round

 

His recruitment is a bit like him going to Sainsburys to get some ingredients to cook Mrs J a meal

Doesnt have a list as such but has a really nice idea / plan in his head

Once in the store he gets distracted with some fancy packaging and some weekly offers

Returns home with some Yorkshire puddings , a bag of rice. , some washing up powder and some oranges

Emptying his bag on the kitchen worktop he wonders how he’s going to actually make a nice meal ......

Ready, Steady.....Fook!

[Kid in the Riot]

2 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Let’s hope he has a well planned and thought out shopping list next time round

 

His recruitment is a bit like him going to Sainsburys to get some ingredients to cook Mrs J a meal

Doesnt have a list as such but has a really nice idea / plan in his head

Once in the store he gets distracted with some fancy packaging and some weekly offers

Returns home with some Yorkshire puddings , a bag of rice. , some washing up powder and some oranges

Emptying his bag on the kitchen worktop he wonders how he’s going to actually make a nice meal ......

I recall you being quite impressed with our recruitment strategy when it was presented by MA/LJ at AG earlier this season. What do you think has gone/is going wrong?