Squad harmony

[BobBobSuperBob]

Just now, Davefevs said:

Eh?  What’s the left midfield reference?  Fredericks?

I’m confused

Thought he was a left handed opening bat

 

 

[Redbo]

1 minute ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I’m confused

Thought he was a left handed opening bat

 

 

I’m stumped. 

[cidered abroad]

2 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I thought the same Major - Thought there may be a possibility he was talking in footballing terms only but I did get the same impression as you

If you look at social media there’s definitely obvious friendships and some groups that tend to socialise together etc

Sounds like the days when Millen, McInnes and O'Driscoll were here and were beaten by dressing room power. Here we go again with what goes around, comes around?

[Red7]

3 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

All rather worrying.

Who knows what the LJ quote referred to!
In any case, I think a team, organisation or company where everybody fits in is a rare thing indeed. So why should we be worried or surprised? 

[Ivorguy]

1 hour ago, Red7 said:

Who knows what the LJ quote referred to!
In any case, I think a team, organisation or company where everybody fits in is a rare thing indeed. So why should we be worried or surprised? 

We should be worried because LJ is not managing them

[havanatopia]

8 hours ago, Agard Days Night said:

Maybe the other lads just haven’t take well to a selfish thug with an attitude problem. Can’t really blame them. 

In the event that is true it bodes the question; what has happened to the equally important aspect of a clubs homework on a players ability; character?

[Major Isewater]

5 hours ago, Red7 said:

Who knows what the LJ quote referred to!
In any case, I think a team, organisation or company where everybody fits in is a rare thing indeed. So why should we be worried or surprised? 

The quote referred to Kent not fitting in . How could it be any clearer ? 

Evidently there are problems with cliques in the squad. It obviously isn't just Kent who has flopped but other signings haven't broken through and that should raise a whole load of questions.

[Major Isewater]

8 hours ago, Robbored said:

How do you know that?  Source? Or just wild speculation?

The quote is clear enough . There is a tight knit group and certain players, Kent being the subject in question, don't fit in .

So money down the drain, dodgy performances and ' bye, bye ' squad harmony and in the same measure, promotion prospects.

 

[Major Isewater]

6 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

Sounds like the days when Millen, McInnes and O'Driscoll were here and were beaten by dressing room power. Here we go again with what goes around, comes around?

Perhaps this is what LJ means by a ' difficult ' summer ? 

Is he going to dismantle this group? 

I would imagine it's the double winners who are so close .  

[Robbored]

19 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

The quote is clear enough . There is a tight knit group and certain players, Kent being the subject in question, don't fit in .

So money down the drain, dodgy performances and ' bye, bye ' squad harmony and in the same measure, promotion prospects.

 

Ffs Major.........Anyone joining a new workplace, especially a well established one might find it difficult to 'fit in'. There are cliques wherever, pubs, workplace, sports teams.  The list is almost endless.

Its no surprise that a young lad from outside the area, away from friends and family maybe homesick don't settle in. An employer can't predict if that kind of thing might happen.

The same type of thing happened to Louis Carey when he signed for Coventry.

Its no big deal.

[Ivorguy]

33 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Ffs Major.........Anyone joining a new workplace, especially a well established one might find it difficult to 'fit in'. There are cliques wherever, pubs, workplace, sports teams.  The list is almost endless.

Its no surprise that a young lad from outside the area, away from friends and family maybe homesick don't settle in. An employer can't predict if that kind of thing might happen.

The same type of thing happened to Louis Carey when he signed for Coventry.

Its no big deal.

Sorry don't buy this. As I said above this is a known problem, agree with you, therefore, as in other businesses, proper induction processes should be in place.  Clearly they are not with City. The buck stops with LJ, it's part of his job.

[Silvio Dante]

8 minutes ago, Ivorguy said:

Sorry don't buy this. As I said above this is a known problem, agree with you, therefore, as in other businesses, proper induction processes should be in place.  Clearly they are not with City. The buck stops with LJ, it's part of his job.

How do you know they’re not?

The club could have done the right inductions - using the real world example, that would be ensuring a new player is set up on the systems, meets the appropriate people and understands the objectives. From a football sense, add in, if we have one, a players liaison officer setting up new players with somewhere to live etc.

You can do all that, but if the new players a bellend or doesn’t mesh with the other squad personalities then you get fitting in problems, which appears to have happened here.

To me, it seems more “DNA due dilligence” than a formal induction programme that may be to blame -IIRC didn’t Mark Ashton show a “bible” all new signings get given which does exactly that?

[downendcity]

8 hours ago, Redbo said:

I’m stumped. 

How'zat?

[Redbo]

23 minutes ago, downendcity said:

How'zat?

Not out. Nothing on hot spot. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

@BobBobSuperBob

You've often touched on this on other threads, a similar theme- players skipping the queue, ahead of those who were proven and playing wel.

It made me wonder when you posted about Kent, Diony and Walsh going straight in and upsetting the harmony or similar, whether the same would have happened even had we signed a Grabban or a Mitrovic on loan, and they went right into the squad...

My first thought putting those together was 'It didn't happen at Villa with Grabban, Fulham with Mitrovic, or Wolves with Afobe'.

On a general note, though the January signings were not a success- fine line isn't there, between tight knit/harmony and clique. Hope our squad is the right side of that line...

This line makes me wonder though- the 2nd part of it anyway!

Quote

“The squad understands each other and has cohesion with each other, its not always easy to break into that scenario.”

[Mr Popodopolous]

9 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

Sounds like the days when Millen, McInnes and O'Driscoll were here and were beaten by dressing room power. Here we go again with what goes around, comes around?

Could even argue to an extent GJ towards the end (though he put himself in that hole too, but I doubt it helped).

 

8 hours ago, Red7 said:

Who knows what the LJ quote referred to!
In any case, I think a team, organisation or company where everybody fits in is a rare thing indeed. So why should we be worried or surprised? 

Then why did Mitrovic fit at Fulham? Grabban at Villa?

(Will make a bit of an exception for Afobe at Wolves, he knows the club and the club knows him quite well I reckon, though it's gone through a few changes...).

[RedM]

10 hours ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

But Mark Little has been gone for quite a while now.

But not forgotten it seems. The player’s are doing their annual Vegas trip for his Stag do...wonder if Cunningham will be there as usual. 

[RedM]

42 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

@BobBobSuperBob

You've often touched on this on other threads, a similar theme- players skipping the queue, ahead of those who were proven and playing wel.

It made me wonder when you posted about Kent, Diony and Walsh going straight in and upsetting the harmony or similar, whether the same would have happened even had we signed a Grabban or a Mitrovic on loan, and they went right into the squad...

My first thought putting those together was 'It didn't happen at Villa with Grabban, Fulham with Mitrovic, or Wolves with Afobe'.

On a general note, though the January signings were not a success- fine line isn't there, between tight knit/harmony and clique. Hope our squad is the right side of that line...

This line makes me wonder though- the 2nd part of it anyway!

I guess it’s like any work place, if someone comes in and is a threat to your job you aren’t going to be too happy. But if someone comes in and improves the workplace for everyone you are more accepting. 

In football to arrive in January very much means the manager/coach is adding to the squad, bettering it or covering for injuries. Maybe the players didn’t like this as they thought they were doing ok and were settled as a group. To be fair Lee must have found it difficult at times being the managers son so maybe can empathise with Kent. I find them very similar players actually, maybe Lee sees that in him too.

[Mr Popodopolous]

13 minutes ago, RedM said:

I guess it’s like any work place, if someone comes in and is a threat to your job you aren’t going to be too happy. But if someone comes in and improves the workplace for everyone you are more accepting. 

In football to arrive in January very much means the manager/coach is adding to the squad, bettering it or covering for injuries. Maybe the players didn’t like this as they thought they were doing ok and were settled as a group. To be fair Lee must have found it difficult at times being the managers son so maybe can empathise with Kent. I find them very similar players actually, maybe Lee sees that in him too.

The two aren't mutually exclusive though, are they? I get that though, I do.

In this instance though...Kent, Walsh and Diony come in and in a sense that is a threat to job aka displacing from the team.

However, Grabban will have displaced someone at Villa, Mitrovic will have displaced someone at Fulham- Wolves seem to have managed the transition a bit better as Bonatini still seems to be getting reasonable game-time.

If I am the striker suddenly displaced by Grabban or Mitrovic, I have been there longer- I won't be happy- yet it appears not to have derailed their seasons.

[RedM]

26 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

The two aren't mutually exclusive though, are they? I get that though, I do.

In this instance though...Kent, Walsh and Diony come in and in a sense that is a threat to job aka displacing from the team.

However, Grabban will have displaced someone at Villa, Mitrovic will have displaced someone at Fulham- Wolves seem to have managed the transition a bit better as Bonatini still seems to be getting reasonable game-time.

If I am the striker suddenly displaced by Grabban or Mitrovic, I have been there longer- I won't be happy- yet it appears not to have derailed their seasons.

Yes, but as I said if someone comes in and displaces someone and improves the situation greatly, their goals or assists gets the team flying up the table, it seems they will accept more readily. Or players are in awe of a player ( like Tomlin alluded to, players wanting selfies with him I believe, David James said similar), or they respect a player and are willing to learn from them. 

To be fair Kent or Diony haven’t got that star quality or ability to make things happen for them or the team. I’m not including Walsh as he’s ours and one for the future.

Don’t forget our players have seen Leko and Woodrow come and go (and disappear) as far as loans are concerned this season, so maybe they are losing the faith in the ability to find a good one as much as the fans. Before that there was Tomlin, came in January, got hero status and then went on to wreak. No wonder the players and fans are nervous.

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

@BobBobSuperBob

You've often touched on this on other threads, a similar theme- players skipping the queue, ahead of those who were proven and playing wel.

It made me wonder when you posted about Kent, Diony and Walsh going straight in and upsetting the harmony or similar, whether the same would have happened even had we signed a Grabban or a Mitrovic on loan, and they went right into the squad...

My first thought putting those together was 'It didn't happen at Villa with Grabban, Fulham with Mitrovic, or Wolves with Afobe'.

On a general note, though the January signings were not a success- fine line isn't there, between tight knit/harmony and clique. Hope our squad is the right side of that line...

This line makes me wonder though- the 2nd part of it anyway!

A very good point /question

I wonder if there’s a bit of a theme here ,

a too close inner core of players resistant to new ?

or

Players not reacting well to players who don’t have their workmate  /they rate , or whatever ?

(Think Mr Burns allegations about players views of Engvall ) 

Strange  but I smell something 

 

[Alan Dicks' Barmy Army]

13 hours ago, Agard Days Night said:

Completely different scenario this time. 

 

13 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

What do you know?

 

12 hours ago, Agard Days Night said:

I would love to tell you but @Bob Bob Super Bob is being a bellend as per so I’ll just keep it to myself. 

Do us all a favour @Agard Days Night - either put up or shut!!!

This isn't a school playground !

[BRISTOL86]

3 hours ago, Ivorguy said:

Sorry don't buy this. As I said above this is a known problem, agree with you, therefore, as in other businesses, proper induction processes should be in place.  Clearly they are not with City. The buck stops with LJ, it's part of his job.

You will get cliques at every club the length and breadth of the country. It’s nothing new and nothing specific to BCFC or Johnson. Happens at much bigger and more successful clubs than us and with more experienced and successful managers. 

[phantom]

42 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

You will get cliques at every club the length and breadth of the country. It’s nothing new and nothing specific to BCFC or Johnson. Happens at much bigger and more successful clubs than us and with more experienced and successful managers. 

Is true but part of me being a Manager means my team get on as exactly that "a team" - it is my responsibility to make sure new staff are welcome and intergrated into the group no matter who they are or how long they have been there

One thing, in sporting terms the captain should also play a part of this too

[BRISTOL86]

2 minutes ago, phantom said:

Is true but part of me being a Manager means my team get on as exactly that "a team" - it is my responsibility to make sure new staff are welcome and intergrated into the group no matter who they are or how long they have been there

One thing, in sporting terms the captain should also play a part of this too

You can’t force social interaction between people or force people who don’t get on to get on. I highly doubt that in training LJ turns a blind eye to Kent being excluded.

I imagine if there is an element of ‘us and him’ it’s far away from LJ and the coaching staff. 

Who knows what the deal is here. Players feeling like a cosy club who haven’t welcomed a perceived threat to their status? Or a billy big bollocks who turns up on day one acting like a dick and thinks he’s better than everyone else?

[Mr Popodopolous]

56 minutes ago, RedM said:

Yes, but as I said if someone comes in and displaces someone and improves the situation greatly, their goals or assists gets the team flying up the table, it seems they will accept more readily. Or players are in awe of a player ( like Tomlin alluded to, players wanting selfies with him I believe, David James said similar), or they respect a player and are willing to learn from them. 

To be fair Kent or Diony haven’t got that star quality or ability to make things happen for them or the team. I’m not including Walsh as he’s ours and one for the future.

Don’t forget our players have seen Leko and Woodrow come and go (and disappear) as far as loans are concerned this season, so maybe they are losing the faith in the ability to find a good one as much as the fans. Before that there was Tomlin, came in January, got hero status and then went on to wreak. No wonder the players and fans are nervous.

Fair points- they don't have the star quality, the proven pedigree (though both have been sought after at various times). I get what you're saying, if they are proven as good they will be more readily accepted because they know the team will improve was a whole.

Leko was recalled by WBA so not entirely our fault there, Woodrow- could he have been more, or better utilised? Not saying he was great, but as part of a Plan B while Diedhiou and Djuric injured maybe. I accept the overall point though, the churn of loanees with limited success may well cause unease.

[Nogbad the Bad]

2 hours ago, Badger08 said:

Funny how everyone was raving about Kent when he signed!  

We had every reason to be optimistic, he'd looked a great young player against City.

He made 44 appearances last season for Barnsley in the Championship and was voted their young player of the season.

Kent had no problem fitting in at Barnsley apparently.

 

 

[BRISTOL86]

14 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

We had every reason to be optimistic, he'd looked a great young player against City.

He made 44 appearances last season for Barnsley in the Championship and was voted their young player of the season.

Kent had no problem fitting in at Barnsley apparently.

 

 

Kent will go on to become a fixture at a better club than ours 

[phantom]

1 hour ago, BRISTOL86 said:

You can’t force social interaction between people or force people who don’t get on to get on. I highly doubt that in training LJ turns a blind eye to Kent being excluded.

I imagine if there is an element of ‘us and him’ it’s far away from LJ and the coaching staff. 

Who knows what the deal is here. Players feeling like a cosy club who haven’t welcomed a perceived threat to their status? Or a billy big bollocks who turns up on day one acting like a dick and thinks he’s better than everyone else?

Very true, hasn't the "off the pitch" type of player been mentioned before when we have signed people about them fitting in at the club?

[BobBobSuperBob]

4 hours ago, RedM said:

Yes, but as I said if someone comes in and displaces someone and improves the situation greatly, their goals or assists gets the team flying up the table, it seems they will accept more readily. Or players are in awe of a player ( like Tomlin alluded to, players wanting selfies with him I believe, David James said similar), or they respect a player and are willing to learn from them. 

To be fair Kent or Diony haven’t got that star quality or ability to make things happen for them or the team. I’m not including Walsh as he’s ours and one for the future.

Don’t forget our players have seen Leko and Woodrow come and go (and disappear) as far as loans are concerned this season, so maybe they are losing the faith in the ability to find a good one as much as the fans. Before that there was Tomlin, came in January, got hero status and then went on to wreak. No wonder the players and fans are nervous.

Nailed it IMHO

worth more than a ‘’like’