Clean Slate Thread

[1960maaan]

13 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Right, the season is over.

We finished 11th, flirted with the big boys, but had no relegation threat, unless you count post-Birmingham away in GW2!!

As it currently stands we have a good group of players for the first team, but the back-up appears to be lacking in depth or not ready.  As it stands we’ve lost no-one and gained no-one.

So I’m wiping the slate clean(ish).  Gonna try to judge what takes place over the summer in respect of incomings, outgoings, contract extensions etc.

It's difficult for me just yet, if we didn't have these ridiculous peaks and troughs it would be easier to judge. For me I tolerate LJ (as we are stuck with him until he ***** up so badly even Steve gets fed up) , and I hope to be proved wrong. So I will watch the comings and goings and spend time moaning about England instead of City for a change. Then , come August , we'll see if I can give him the benefit.

1 hour ago, BRISTOL86 said:

IE the credit of the good half of the season lasted about 5 minutes yet the damage of a bad half will be dwelled on 6 months later

It comes back to something I've mentioned before. Start badly end well and most people would be happy. Start well and and badly, people are pissed off , you remember the most recent. Like a game , 3-0 up draw 3-3 Vs 0-3 down draw 3-3 , the feelings come the end are massively different but you end up in the same place.

[Davefevs]

30 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

It's difficult for me just yet, if we didn't have these ridiculous peaks and troughs it would be easier to judge. For me I tolerate LJ (as we are stuck with him until he ***** up so badly even Steve gets fed up) , and I hope to be proved wrong. So I will watch the comings and goings and spend time moaning about England instead of City for a change. Then , come August , we'll see if I can give him the benefit.

It comes back to something I've mentioned before. Start badly end well and most people would be happy. Start well and and badly, people are pissed off , you remember the most recent. Like a game , 3-0 up draw 3-3 Vs 0-3 down draw 3-3 , the feelings come the end are massively different but you end up in the same place.

Difficult for me too. But, personally I’ve bored myself writing the same thoughts in different ways, so am starting afresh. 

My old thoughts may resurface, but I’ll try and see them from a position of a mid table, decent enough squad point of view staring yesterday. 

Everything that happens now I’m considering as 18/19 season. 

[CodeRed]

1 hour ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

‘like’

I can honestly say Zider that at the ground around me with the ST holders or away from AG I don’t know a single LJ advocate - Every one has real concerns ranging through to ‘Should have gone last year’

It's the same in the Lansdown where I sit, however there's a guy in the Dolman who is totally happy with LJ......... He's a part time minibus driver I believe

[BRISTOL86]

I won’t quote you @BobBobSuperBob given the length of the post! But some good points. 

The salient point for me is that you say that the judgement should be on his tenure as a whole and I completely agree.

The fact is that we’ve improved our standing in the football league every year under his management. Like him or loathe him that cannot be ignored and that’s why any talk of dismissal or replacement is ridiculous to anyone outside of BS3 (and plenty within)

As we’ve alluded to on other threads - next season is the real challenge. Delivering an improvement on 11th is a big ask and we certainly can’t afford anything other than a robust start to the season. 

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 minute ago, BRISTOL86 said:

I won’t quote you @BobBobSuperBob given the length of the post! But some good points. 

The salient point for me is that you say that the judgement should be on his tenure as a whole and I completely agree.

The fact is that we’ve improved our standing in the football league every year under his management. Like him or loathe him that cannot be ignored and that’s why any talk of dismissal or replacement is ridiculous to anyone outside of BS3 (and plenty within)

As we’ve alluded to on other threads - next season is the real challenge. Delivering an improvement on 11th is a big ask and we certainly can’t afford anything other than a robust start to the season. 

‘like’

The point about League Position is of course fact and shouldn’t be ignored but for me only paints part of the overall picture

Whether LJ is the answer or not - Personally - offer me mid table next year with some solid consistency and never a threat of a relegation dogfight and I’ll bite your hand off

[1960maaan]

54 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Everything that happens now I’m considering as 18/19 season. 

I'm going to try and forget it all, although.
England in the World Cup , unlikely to take my mind off of it with a winning run. My Cricket team is Gloucs , so unlikely to be sidetracked by their winning exploits. Still , at least we have the transfer rumours to keep us occupied 

Actually have a lot to distract me this summer, so here's to 2018/19 season 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

14 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Right, the season is over.

We finished 11th, flirted with the big boys, but had no relegation threat, unless you count post-Birmingham away in GW2!!

As it currently stands we have a good group of players for the first team, but the back-up appears to be lacking in depth or not ready.  As it stands we’ve lost no-one and gained no-one.

So I’m wiping the slate clean(ish).  Gonna try to judge what takes place over the summer in respect of incomings, outgoings, contract extensions etc.

Agree with everything but the highlighted portion. I think that we have some good first team players and some incredibly questionable players, this season would have been great had we had a modicum of consistency and that is now the key and only quality signings and continued promotion of the better academy players will help with that.

Quality is definitely the key this summer.

Also I seem to remember somebody posting a very similar thread last season, is this going to be an annual event?

 

[BobBobSuperBob]

11 minutes ago, Badger08 said:

When LJ was appointed, my concern was that a fraction of City supporters was always going to be hard to please.  

We're all going to have different opinions, but I feel that LJ (first half of the season) has proven he can coach and put together a squad that is capable of competing at the right end of the table.  You are going to have the argument of the last few months of the season, but we've got to look at the positives surely?  

I think anyone who has a grudge with LJ is going to take the last half of season, and use it as a stick to beat away all the positives.  And the same for someone like me,  as a LJ supporter (of his coaching style and the way he wants to play) I'm going to take the first half of the season to bash away the negatives. 

Personally, for me (cue @BobBobSuperBob aggressive bullying of my opinion), the positives outweigh the negatives.  For the first time in, well, forever I could see a real direction for the club.  Bristol City had an identity for playing some of the nicest football outside of the Premier League and it was justified.   Yes, it fell apart in the last half of the season, but we know under LJ it can be done.  So why would anyone want to risk ripping that apart after our best finish in a decade? 

For me, no slate needs to be wiped.  I can't look into the future, and maybe I'm completely wrong, but I'm not going to be made to feel ashamed, victimised and somewhat bullied for taking the positives of this season and having hope for the future. 

Rose tinted, happy clappy or idiot. I don't care what you throw at me, I'm optimistic about the future.   

Pulling apart your claims and changes of mood is now ‘bullying’is it 

 

Priceless

Dear of dear

The fact that you were unable to give even a simple answer to @Cowshed s query about progression spoke volumes

 

Youve given up on your whimperings  (for today) over us potentialy selling our better players then ?

you’re ‘I can’t look into the future’ (something you mumble frequently)  followed by ‘I’m optimistic about the future’ is ‘interesting’

 

Two days ago

‘We all know my thoughts on this, however, to build on this season we MUST keep the core squad together.  We need to keep Bobby, Flint, and Byran.  Is that going to happen? Probably not. 
From the SL interview, he seems to be suggesting that one if not all of these players are going to leave.  If that is the case, what is the point?  You can't just sell your best players and expect to replace them with better ones for less money! 

Just ask Southampton how its working out for them.’

 

 

you certainly sound optimistic

Bless

[Son of Fred]

3 hours ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Funny how some will continue the grudge/ill feeling of bad form into a new season months later yet do the complete opposite when considering the good.

IE the credit of the good half of the season lasted about 5 minutes yet the damage of a bad half will be dwelled on 6 months later  

How is that logical? 

I will judge next season based on the performance of that season. Last time I checked the table reset to 0 points each season. 

The only thing that matters next season is how we perform next season. 

Come on that's completely logical-it's the 'way of the world-when at work you perform near miracles for months on end,then one mistake??..standby!!

[cidered abroad]

15 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Right, the season is over.

We finished 11th, flirted with the big boys, but had no relegation threat, unless you count post-Birmingham away in GW2!!

As it currently stands we have a good group of players for the first team, but the back-up appears to be lacking in depth or not ready.  As it stands we’ve lost no-one and gained no-one.

So I’m wiping the slate clean(ish).  Gonna try to judge what takes place over the summer in respect of incomings, outgoings, contract extensions etc.

I completely understand where you are coming from Davefevs. But while we should always look forward to new times, it is also a requirement that the past is taken into account. Otherwise we will be making the same mistakes again. Lessons have to be learned, errors corrected to give everyone at the club to make the new season a thing of the future and not a recurrence of the last two seasons. 

[cidered abroad]

2 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

‘like’

I can honestly say Zider that at the ground around me with the ST holders or away from AG I don’t know a single LJ advocate - Every one has real concerns ranging through to ‘Should have gone last year’

I can second that. 

[BobBobSuperBob]

13 minutes ago, Badger08 said:

I'll take back the bullying claim, but you're unnecessarily aggressive as you have just clearly proven.  Why are you so angry with me? I'm sorry if I've upset you. Id like to invite you for a drink next season to prove I'm actually a nice guy.  You are obviously passionate about Bristol City, so we'd have that in common and maybe you could change my mind about a few things.  I'm not arrogant enough to not have my mind changed.  What do you say? Pop me a PM and we can arrange it. 

I get that you're saying, but things change Bob.  As it stands, I'm optimistic, but IF (being the operative word) that were to happen (which it hasn't yet), then I will be less optimistic. Things aren't just black and white. Things change and I'm speculating, thats what happens when you can't see into the future. Peoples opinions change with circumstance. 

 

‘Like’

I Don’t have a ‘problem’ with you 

I’d actually stayed away from yourbposts but , out of the blue , you decide to mention me and have a pop at me in your post above

Certainly in these instances (A few have done the same)  I will defend myself and my view where justified 

I do get p’d Off with those ‘holier than thou’  or blind  when anyone questions something about the club or LJ or the playing ethos let’s etc and even worse when they can’t explain why , and even worse when they do exactly the same thing (Display concern / moan  or whatever you want to call it) when it suits 

Maybe some of your posts particularly towards me might want reflection

Appreciate your post though 

No problem / line in the sand

 

Would happily meet you for a beer or coffee

(I can’t Pm or receive Pm’s ..... as ...... I’m an aggressive ********  )

[Gert Mare]

15 hours ago, BCFC11 said:

Totally agree @Davefevs will be a new season, few new faces no doubt.

This season has no bearing on next season whatsoever, no one knows how it’s going to go, good or bad.

Agree @BCFC11. There is no way we should be calling for the manager’s head....yet.

We finished outside of a relegation scrap so he has improved the finish and we finished in 11th.

However, the second half of the season was as awful as the first half was brilliant and the summer will see some of the core of that squad depart.

If we start next season as poorly as we finished this one then I will expect LJ to be gone by November (end of at latest).

3 hours ago, 1bristolcity said:

Well which ever way you want to look at it....it is a clean slate, we all start on the same points 0, unless you feel the need to cherry pick all that was poor last season and forget the high's, yes we did really beat Man U Palace and others along the way, and took Man City all the way, which unless you are deluded to the extent that doesn't matter, it does, and throw in some of the best football we have played for many a season, it bodes well for the future. 

But what we have here is a few regulars, well probably just 2% of the total membership full time moaners who seem to delight in the negative's and now are tipping relegation next season!! Whilst some pundits are backing us for promotion, added to the constant calls for the manager's head it is becoming clear there is a small faction that are doing there best to derail the good intent and huge investment SL has made to the club. In fact we were lauded and praised by the media for what we have achieved, putting the pride back into Bristol football, but not good enough for some is it? They prefer the 'old' ways the constant bickering that has been a feature of City for as long as I can remember, never mind Rovers and all the other  ticks regarding other managers players etc, get behind the club and be thankful we have a owner who is not going to jump ship, and has very much a vision to make City a better club. 

I’m sick of hearing this. It is like we are going round in circles. According to some of the happy clappy brigade anyone with a negative criticism is either an ‘LJ hater’ or loves to see it all going wrong - Total and utter bollocks.

I notice at the end of the responses that I receive from happy clappers is that they try to tell me about the champagne football and beating Man United et al, before saying that I’m not really entitled to my own opinion and that it’s ridiculous or I don’t know what I am talking about. Well, I said we would finish 10th, we finished 11th and I said that Colin is an excellent manger and that he would take Cardiff up. (Just saying).

Deep down I would love a full season to be like the first half of last season whether LJ is at the helm or not. 

I think fair play to anyone who wants to see the good in everything and sometimes although it is very rare that we get a season like that. 2015 under Cotts is my favourite ever. The way we smashed Bradford away to go up and then the 8-2 demolition of Walsall at home was Champagne Football at it’s absolute best. We were bloody phenomenal that season. I along with everyone else was totally happy clappy and a believer.

I don’t feel the same after this season, but we should all be ok with accepting each other’s opinions, positive or negative. Unfortunately on here someone always has to get a dig in somewhere within their post, so a war of words is fair game after that as far as I am concerned.

Up the City.

[cidered abroad]

1 hour ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

‘like’

The point about League Position is of course fact and shouldn’t be ignored but for me only paints part of the overall picture

Whether LJ is the answer or not - Personally - offer me mid table next year with some solid consistency and never a threat of a relegation dogfight and I’ll bite your hand off

Such a season would allow us to give our Academy boys, good pitch time without too much pressure if a mistake is made by them. And that is building for the future, not ten minutes for a young striker when we're chasing an equaliser. 

[Show Me The Money!]

15 minutes ago, Badger08 said:

I'll take back the bullying claim, but you're unnecessarily aggressive as you have just clearly proven.  Why are you so angry with me? I'm sorry if I've upset you. Id like to invite you for a drink next season to prove I'm actually a nice guy.  You are obviously passionate about Bristol City, so we'd have that in common and maybe you could change my mind about a few things.  I'm not arrogant enough to not have my mind changed.  What do you say? Pop me a PM and we can arrange it. 

I get what you're saying, but things change Bob.  As it stands, I'm optimistic, but IF (being the operative word) that were to happen (which it hasn't yet), then I will be less optimistic. Things aren't just black and white. Things change and I'm speculating, thats what happens when you can't see into the future. Peoples opinions change with circumstance. 

 

I'll come if your buying 

[BobBobSuperBob]

7 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

Such a season would allow us to give our Academy boys, good pitch time without too much pressure if a mistake is made by them. And that is building for the future, not ten minutes for a young striker when we're chasing an equaliser. 

‘Like’

Agree CA

If we can mouldy a new team as it looks we may have too , give LK and hopefully ZV some development time , and finish away from any relegation scare I would say it will be an acceptable season, mid table or above - a decent one

 

And another good post (won’t quote it) @Cheesleysmate

[Esmond Million's Bung]

1 hour ago, Badger08 said:

When LJ was appointed, my concern was that a fraction of City supporters was always going to be hard to please.  

We're all going to have different opinions, but I feel that LJ (first half of the season) has proven he can coach and put together a squad that is capable of competing at the right end of the table.  You are going to have the argument of the last few months of the season, but we've got to look at the positives surely?  

I think anyone who has a grudge with LJ is going to take the last half of season, and use it as a stick to beat away all the positives.  And the same for someone like me,  as a LJ supporter (of his coaching style and the way he wants to play) I'm going to take the first half of the season to bash away the negatives. 

Personally, for me (cue @BobBobSuperBob aggressive bullying of my opinion), the positives outweigh the negatives.  For the first time in, well, forever I could see a real direction for the club.  Bristol City had an identity for playing some of the nicest football outside of the Premier League and it was justified.   Yes, it fell apart in the last half of the season, but we know under LJ competing at the top end can be done.  So why would anyone want to risk ripping that apart after our best finish in a decade? 

For me, no slate needs to be wiped.  I can't look into the future, and maybe I'm completely wrong, but I'm not going to be made to feel ashamed, victimised and somewhat bullied for taking the positives of this season and having hope for the future. 

Rose tinted, happy clappy or idiot. I don't care what you throw at me, I'm optimistic about the future.   

The highlighted portion is a bit like saying that a year ago you were diagnosed with a serious illness and between August and December the prognosis was much better and the scare was over, but from the end of December to may the illness returned, it's a little hard to look at the positives.

Also it only proves his coaching and the squad worked during that period, nothing more nothing less and of course there is the incontrovertible evidence that is symptomatic of LJ's managerial career of he either has winning streaks or mainly losing streaks, there has never been any consistency, so there is absolutely no evidence that he can fully achieve the consistency the fans crave.

The positives of this season for me were the great first 3/4 months of the season, the emergence of Reid as a striker, the emergence of Kelly as a talent and hopefully the confidence boosting emergence of Vyner at Plymouth, my biggest fear is the best back 4 our money can buy will always be made to look average/poor when playing behind our current misfiring (2 years on) midfield, another positive is the increase in crowd size but apart from that I am personally struggling apart from we were never in a relegation fight for a change, but on current evidence next season might be entirely different.

Whereas some people see that we need minimal changes to the first team squad I would say goalkeeper, right back, left back (if Bryan leaves) 2 midfielders and 2 strikers (if Bobby Reid leaves).

I have never advocated that LJ should be sacked but if the consistency has not arrived by Christmas then I think then enough is enough, no more excuses, he has been backed in every which way and now has to deliver.

[Mr Popodopolous]

More than happy to wait and see what happens over the summer- don't see the need for a change or anything like that as it stands.

Still think we have reasonable depth personally- but sticking with the 4-4-2 we've seen in recent weeks, months limits that significantly. That's down to LJ, how can it not be as he sets the team up. Hope he will improve significantly in this area- his tactical versatility (as in sensible Plans B, C and sometimes even D). Maybe he will choose to drill properly the side in more than one way in preseason too- I'm more than prepared to give him a decent chance, but his tactical shapes and team selections in 2018 have frequently concerned me.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

1 hour ago, Badger08 said:

Thats fair @Esmond Million's Bung

I'm not blind enough to ignore LJ's poor runs.  Are they concerning, of course they are, but its something that I believe can be resolved with a bit of tweaking?  I'd sooner us tweak a few things than rip it up and start again. Does that make any sense? 

I'm not great at putting things into words sometimes.  

It makes perfect sense mate and I totally agree but I think Christmas has to be the cut off point for me, because that will give us plenty of time to see if our recruitment has improved or if we have wasted money once more on 'punts' and 'make do and hopes' and as I said I think the first team squad needs far more tweaking than people are saying, we have far too many players who just ain't consistent enough.

[BRISTOL86]

13 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

It makes perfect sense mate and I totally agree but I think Christmas has to be the cut off point for me, because that will give us plenty of time to see if our recruitment has improved or if we have wasted money once more on 'punts' and 'make do and hopes' and as I said I think the first team squad needs far more tweaking than people are saying, we have far too many players who just ain't consistent enough.

Absolutely. Too many that let the hype get to them at the tail end of the year IMO.

We do best as the plucky underdog. We started off seeing ourselves as overperforming and couldn’t put a foot wrong. Then we all started believing that we were excellent and it went to peoples heads IMO. Too many think they’re better than they are and the desire/work rate just seemed to evaporate post Wolves. 

[BRISTOL86]

This is why I feel that the balance of anger between manager and players is a bit out of whack. Of course the manager ultimately pays for the failings of his team - and I am angry about mistakes LJ has made - but IMO too many well paid senior pros have shirked their responsibilities. 

They lap up the adulation but go very quiet when they have some explaining to do. 

[Davefevs]

5 hours ago, Badger08 said:

When LJ was appointed, my concern was that a fraction of City supporters was always going to be hard to please.  

We're all going to have different opinions, but I feel that LJ (first half of the season) has proven he can coach and put together a squad that is capable of competing at the right end of the table.  You are going to have the argument of the last few months of the season, but we've got to look at the positives surely?  

I think anyone who has a grudge with LJ is going to take the last half of season, and use it as a stick to beat away all the positives.  And the same for someone like me,  as a LJ supporter (of his coaching style and the way he wants to play) I'm going to take the first half of the season to bash away the negatives. 

Personally, for me (cue @BobBobSuperBob aggressive bullying of my opinion), the positives outweigh the negatives.  For the first time in, well, forever I could see a real direction for the club.  Bristol City had an identity for playing some of the nicest football outside of the Premier League and it was justified.   Yes, it fell apart in the last half of the season, but we know under LJ competing at the top end can be done.  So why would anyone want to risk ripping that apart after our best finish in a decade? 

For me, no slate needs to be wiped.  I can't look into the future, and maybe I'm completely wrong, but I'm not going to be made to feel ashamed, victimised and somewhat bullied for taking the positives of this season and having hope for the future. 

Rose tinted, happy clappy or idiot. I don't care what you throw at me, I'm optimistic about the future.   

Why?

Just looking at the positives breeds complacency.  Just looking at the negatives doesn’t help either.  The right thing to do is to look at the positives and negatives / good and bad, and the root causes of those and the material impacts and immaterial ones / placebo effect to fully understand what causes what, what you can control, what you can’t.  Just looking at the final league table in effect just averages out the peaks and troughs and blinkers your view.  

The above isn’t aimed at you, just generally, that if LJ wants to be better informed and therefore better prepared for next season he’ll need to look at lots of things, as well as allow others feedback to him their view too, both above and below him in the hierarchy.

[Davefevs]

5 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

I completely understand where you are coming from Davefevs. But while we should always look forward to new times, it is also a requirement that the past is taken into account. Otherwise we will be making the same mistakes again. Lessons have to be learned, errors corrected to give everyone at the club to make the new season a thing of the future and not a recurrence of the last two seasons. 

I’ve done the looking back part of it, constantly adjusting my view as I get more evidence, see more trends, etc.  I certainly haven’t consigned it to the bin.  It will be used as the baseline for looking forward. 

[Lew-T]

For me it’s a trust issue. You only have to look at LJ’s track record with Barnsley and Oldham and the way this season has panned out.  

I can wipe the slate clean, but there’s always doubt in my mind that LJ and co will fail to deliver next season, or even stop the rot. 

Not sure I can trust LJ and MA to be perfectly honest with you.