Inevitable, but terrible / Disappointing transfer window (Merged)

[Lrrr]

7 minutes ago, Sturny said:

Persosonally think it’s quite sad the amount of people lying to themselves when they think Webster is better than Flint, Weimann is better than Bobby and the new chap from Chelsea will fill Bryan’s boots. There’s absolutely nothing that fills me with confidence that they’ll equal or better their predecessor’s impact in this current squad. I think who ever believes that is in for a disappointing season.

 

What people seem to be getting tangled up with is that they think I’m saying Webster/Weimann/Dasilva are bad players, I’m not! They’re just inferior to what we had before. 

 

If these replacements are better/equal then why didn’t Cardiff/Fulham/Middlesbrough come in for them instead? As they clearly were cheaper? You could argue the newbies fit our play style more and I hope that’s true, but time will have to tell.   

That's football, teams higher on the food chain buy from below them and hope the players they bring in improve beyond who they sell. Only the top teams in England can hope to replace who they lose with better. 

[Sturny]

13 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Still labouring the point Sturny? 

I’ll ask you the same question as yesterday - on what do you base your assessment when neither you or any of us have the new signings play more than one game?

Yup.

 

It's quite ironic that you've bought this Robbored. As I've asked similarly what is there to convince me that they're good enough to better/equal as replacements? You've just avoided the question in my post as it's clear nobody can assess a player from one game but previous achievements/stats/market worth can prove a player's ability majority of the time.

 

"If these replacements are better/equal then why didn’t Cardiff/Fulham/Middlesbrough come in for them instead? As they clearly were cheaper?" <---------------- BET YOU WONT ANSWER THAT 

 

 

[054123]

9 hours ago, Premier Blue said:

I'm surprised you have heard of lidl. More poundworld and poundstretcher over where you are

Pound what?

tell me more.

[Sturny]

24 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

personally I think its quite sad writing the season off after one game and writing players off with out watching them,

We recovered from selling Bob Taylor, Andy Cole, Kodja,  Robbie Turner, Louis Carey (Retiring) Tinman (Retiring) Ayling, Freeman, Elliot, Elliot (Retiring) losing Caulker, Tammy, JET, Matt Hill, Danny Coles

the list goes on, however the hyperbole doesn't stop

 

to sum it up give it a ******* rest

we scored from a header saturday and had a header cleared off the line

Where have I implied I've come to this conclusion after one game? And where have I written the season off? I've just stressed my disappointed in weaker replacements but it looks like people keep missing that. 

 

I give you that, I have droned on a bit. 

 

[Robbored]

11 minutes ago, Sturny said:

 

"If these replacements are better/equal then why didn’t Cardiff/Fulham/Middlesbrough come in for them instead? As they clearly were cheaper?" <---------------- BET YOU WONT ANSWER THAT 

 

Hodge has answered that question already and is absolutely spot on. I’ll happily repeat what he posted if you’d prefer.

[Sturny]

6 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Hodge has answered that question already and is absolutely spot on. I’ll happily repeat what he posted if you’d prefer.

Are you referring to his answer being "That's football"? 

if so, yes it's football that better players sign for better teams  that's why those teams signed bobby/flint/bryan and they didn't go for our replacements instead. 

[Lrrr]

6 minutes ago, Sturny said:

Are you referring to his answer being "That's football"? 

if so, yes it's football that better players sign for better teams  that's why those teams signed bobby/flint/bryan and they didn't go for our replacements instead. 

Then you're clearly ignoring the whole point deliberately 

[Robbored]

2 minutes ago, hodge said:

Then you're clearly ignoring the whole point deliberately 

Not sure it’s deliberate Hodge....................

[Lrrr]

2 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Not sure it’s deliberate Hodge....................

If it's not deliberately ignoring would that then not be missing the point because of not understanding it 

[Sturny]

1 minute ago, hodge said:

If it's not deliberately ignoring would that then not be missing the point because of not understanding it 

The irony of this when not understanding anything I've said in the above. What you said isn't incorrect at all and I agree that is football. But you're drifting from my original point and that is we've made lesser appointments (which i'm aware is the best we could've have) and that has made me feel disappointed. 

 

[Lrrr]

10 minutes ago, Sturny said:

The irony of this when not understanding anything I've said in the above. What you said isn't incorrect at all and I agree that is football. But you're drifting from my original point and that is we've made lesser appointments (which i'm aware is the best we could've have) and that has made me feel disappointed. 

 

Well as for your original point as for if the replacements are so good why didn't the buying clubs come in for them, Bryan almost went to Villa, did you miss the part where when he went to Fulham instead they tried getting Dasilva? 

[Sturny]

5 minutes ago, hodge said:

Well as for your original point as for if the replacements are so good why didn't the buying clubs come in for them, Bryan almost went to Villa, did you miss the part where when he went to Fulham instead they tried getting Dasilva? 

That is hilarious, you've defeated your own argument. Fulham and Villa went for Bryan first because he's better than Dasilva. Bryan is a better player and Dasilva is a lesser appointment

I'm not saying Dasilva is a bad player. 

[Natchfever]

15 hours ago, Sturny said:

 

 

If I showed you these pictures at the beginning of this year what would've you said?

I'm aware holding onto these players was going to be tricky but we've made inferior replacements and I can't help but feel this has been one of the most disappointing windows in a long time   

Players come and go BUT THIS STILL SUCKS

Personally, I would have said at the start of the year that all three would go because I didn't think we would sustain our promotion push .

Currently I have no idea whether the replacements brought in are inferior or not, or indeed whether the three who have gone would have sustained their form.

Underwhelmed by the business done to be fair, but unlike previous recent years, no expensive punts on "one for the future" who ultimately disappear so i'm not in meltdown just yet.

[Bristol Rob]

Just think that it wasn't too long back people were thinking that Reid was a waste of a wage as he was 24 and was too lightweight and hadn't done anything, and we were getting worried because Birmingham had made a five million quid bid for BOTH Flint and Bryan.

[Red Exile]

3 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Just think that it wasn't too long back people were thinking that Reid was a waste of a wage as he was 24 and was too lightweight and hadn't done anything, and we were getting worried because Birmingham had made a five million quid bid for BOTH Flint and Bryan.

The finances of football have undergone a massive shift. Fulham spent £100m in the end. £6m for Joe was a snip. Great article from today's Guardian here:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/aug/09/premier-league-financial-power-transfer-window

Headline being:

the super-sized scale of Premier League finances are perhaps illustrated most spectacularly by the spending lower down...Bournemouth, fondly-viewed as a lower division club for their whole history until promotion in 2015, have 11,464 seats in their stadium yet received £111m TV money last season and this summer paid £25m for the midfielder Jefferson Lerma from Levante. Brighton, after staying up last season, spent a net £44.3m. The promoted clubs signalled their intent to establish themselves, Shahid Khan’s Fulham spending an extraordinary net £74.5m

[Lrrr]

22 minutes ago, Sturny said:

That is hilarious, you've defeated your own argument. Fulham and Villa went for Bryan first because he's better than Dasilva. Bryan is a better player and Dasilva is a lesser appointment

I'm not saying Dasilva is a bad player. 

How can you honestly expect the club to bring in better players than who we sell? Unless you're the big 6 in England no one manages to do it and everyone buys from below themselves. To do so would also put ourselves at risk of ffp given we lose close to the £13m per year anyway. 

[Nogbad the Bad]

40 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Just think that it wasn't too long back people were thinking that Reid was a waste of a wage as he was 24 and was too lightweight and hadn't done anything, and we were getting worried because Birmingham had made a five million quid bid for BOTH Flint and Bryan.

Slightly on the harsh side but generally a reasonable evaluation of the BR of just over a year ago. It became clear in 16/17 he was never going to make it as a Championship midfielder - even his most ardent backer LJ had finally given up on him there - and a move to div. 1 before the end of his contract looked likely.

It was a remarkable spot by the backroom statisticians and analysts to recommend to LJ he should try him further up.

Maybe they can do it again - Bailey Wright to midfield enforcer? Hegeler our new target man?

Not sure anyone was worried about Flint or Bryan going to Brum tbh. Their bid didn't didn't even meet our valuation for Flint alone, and it's very unlikely either of them wanted to go there anyway.

[Mr Popodopolous]

41 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

The finances of football have undergone a massive shift. Fulham spent £100m in the end. £6m for Joe was a snip. Great article from today's Guardian here:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/aug/09/premier-league-financial-power-transfer-window

Headline being:

the super-sized scale of Premier League finances are perhaps illustrated most spectacularly by the spending lower down...Bournemouth, fondly-viewed as a lower division club for their whole history until promotion in 2015, have 11,464 seats in their stadium yet received £111m TV money last season and this summer paid £25m for the midfielder Jefferson Lerma from Levante. Brighton, after staying up last season, spent a net £44.3m. The promoted clubs signalled their intent to establish themselves, Shahid Khan’s Fulham spending an extraordinary net £74.5m

What this kind of highlights to me is that- with a few exceptions i.e. us now, Brentford and some mid range PL/Championship clubs- English clubs are quite lazy in their scouting, certainly in the PL.

They have a lot of TV money and therefore throw a lot of TV cash at it. Whereas plenty in Europe have more limited budgets- even decent sized clubs- and have to wheel and deal, have to buy to sell, re-invest- after a while they become fairly adept at it.

 Not many clubs in the PL, or to an extent the Championship we can say this about, certainly not with regularity.

[Red Exile]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

What this kind of highlights to me is that- with a few exceptions i.e. us now, Brentford and some mid range PL/Championship clubs- English clubs are quite lazy in their scouting, certainly in the PL.

They have a lot of TV money and therefore throw a lot of TV cash at it. Whereas plenty in Europe have more limited budgets- even decent sized clubs- and have to wheel and deal, have to buy to sell, re-invest- after a while they become fairly adept at it.

 Not many clubs in the PL, or to an extent the Championship we can say this about, certainly not with regularity.

Agreed - a consequence of which is that  a club of Fulham's relative obscurity can take a punt on the best product of our Academy, with all those years of investment, for 6% of their summer transfer budget. The gap in resources is immense.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

15 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

It was a remarkable spot by the backroom staticians and analysts to recommend to LJ he should try him further up.

Maybe they can do it again - Bailey Wright to midfield enforcer? Hegeler our new target man?

 

So please tell us all- who exactly were these back room staticians of which you speak? Where have you read that this was recommended to Lee Johnson as opposed to an initiative directly attributable to him?

Is this just another inability on here to give credit where credit is due? If we lose anything it's alway always laid at the door of the Manager and any success is now down to Q working with his team of hobbits on experiments in the basement of BS3?

[Mr Popodopolous]

8 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

Agreed - a consequence of which is that  a club of Fulham's relative obscurity can take a punt on the best product of our Academy, with all those years of investment, for 6% of their summer transfer budget. The gap in resources is immense.

Oh no doubt- my point was more about comparison of how European and PL clubs differ. Our model feels more of a European one.

Will it work? Seems to for Brentford in a variety of ways. Feel it will need to in this era of financial regs, but it may also throw up opportunities. The difference in net spend across the respective Leagues- with some exceptions- is nuts. Teams not in the PL or not of parachute payments, just need to be much smarter in how they invest, sell to invest. In Europe I see this a decent amount. Here? More hit and miss- though Brentford are a shining example.

[Try Again coatpile]

43 minutes ago, hodge said:

How can you honestly expect the club to bring in better players than who we sell? Unless you're the big 6 in England no one manages to do it and everyone buys from below themselves. To do so would also put ourselves at risk of ffp given we lose close to the £13m per year anyway. 

This hits the nail on the head for me.

The only times I think this isn't the case is when you get promoted and have a bigger slice of the tv money or when you get a new investor with money (and where the previous one has been broke/unwilling to spend). 

[Sturny]

1 hour ago, hodge said:

How can you honestly expect the club to bring in better players than who we sell? Unless you're the big 6 in England no one manages to do it and everyone buys from below themselves. To do so would also put ourselves at risk of ffp given we lose close to the £13m per year anyway. 

Sorry I don’t see the logic your there Hodge. We can bring in better players, we bought in Tammy for Kodjia don’t you remember? He was at minimum equal quality. Or do you have a selective memory when choosing your arguments? That’s quite a bold statement to say we can never bring in better players 

[BobBobSuperBob]

2 hours ago, Robbored said:

Still labouring the point Sturny? 

I’ll ask you the same question as yesterday - on what do you base your assessment when neither you or any of us have the new signings play more than one game?

There’s plenty on here saying they are better 

Ask them

Amazes me how many making so many bold claims about DeSilva

Very promising I’m sure and I admit I havnt the slightest clue on him but a lot seem to have studied Charlton or Chelsea U23s extensively

[Lrrr]

6 minutes ago, Sturny said:

Sorry I don’t see the logic your there Hodge. We can bring in better players, we bought in Tammy for Kodjia don’t you remember? He was at minimum equal quality. Or do you have a selective memory when choosing your arguments? That’s quite a bold statement to say we can never bring in better players 

Tammy was here before Kodjia left, he wasn't signed following a departure to replace someone.

[BobBobSuperBob]

33 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

So please tell us all- who exactly were these back room staticians of which you speak? Where have you read that this was recommended to Lee Johnson as opposed to an initiative directly attributable to him?

Is this just another inability on here to give credit where credit is due? If we lose anything it's alway always laid at the door of the Manager and any success is now down to Q working with his team of hobbits on experiments in the basement of BS3?

Unless we’ve been fed a load of bull it’s something that has to go down to LJs credit

Ashton made a particular point that it was LJs call and others were not so convinced

IIRC correctly the analysts unsurprisingly assisted in analysing Bobby Reid’s movement getting in scoring positions but I can’t say I heard it was their suggestion

Anyone who’s watched him closely, even in warm ups will have seen how well he can strike a ball

Iirc LJ started the season before talking about working on / getting BR  into third man / goalscoring positions 

Whatever any views on anything else moving BR has to go down to LJ 

[Sturny]

4 minutes ago, hodge said:

Tammy was here before Kodjia left, he wasn't signed following a departure to replace someone.

It doesn’t matter? He’s a better player we found that replaced another. In fact it shows its more doable because we hadn’t received any money for Kodjia yet and found a better/equal loan signing which I hoped we’d similarly do this window to our departures. 

[Robbored]

1 minute ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

There’s plenty on here saying they are better 

Ask then 

Do you mean the new signings are better than those that moved on and therefore have strengthened the squad?

Its the same question tho - how do we know what impact the new players will make when City have played just one match? 

Wait untill 10/15 games have gone before making an informed view on the new guys is my entire point on this topic but some are claiming that they’re inferior to the ones we had - how can they judge with only one game so far? 

[Nogbad the Bad]

44 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

So please tell us all- who exactly were these back room staticians of which you speak? Where have you read that this was recommended to Lee Johnson as opposed to an initiative directly attributable to him?

Is this just another inability on here to give credit where credit is due? If we lose anything it's alway always laid at the door of the Manager and any success is now down to Q working with his team of hobbits on experiments in the basement of BS3?

Mmm.... I remember LJ saying it himself.

Afaic. LJ gets the credit for actually trying it, and persevering, even though as a poster pointed out last time I tried to credit him, we were very short of alternative forward options at the time.

Btw, the backroom statisticians you seem never to have heard of are often referred to by LJ and the club. It's almost unbelievable you may be unaware of them.

[BobBobSuperBob]

12 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Do you mean the new signings are better than those that moved on and therefore have strengthened the squad?

Its the same question tho - how do we know what impact the new players will make when City have played just one match? 

Wait untill 10/15 games have gone before making an informed view on the new guys is my entire point on this topic but some are claiming that they’re inferior to the ones we had - how can they judge with only one game so far? 

And I’m saying how can a fair few claim that they are better for the very same reason

Though It wont take 10-15 games to make an initial assessment if (you choose to) watch them individually