SL will need to build the indoor Arena now

[Antman]

On 25/08/2018 at 00:30, Chairman Mao said:

Bristol has been one of the most economically successful cities in Western Europe over the past 2 decades. Now imagine where we would be if this shambolic local government was ran by people who had a clue. 

whilst it is more succesful, the government also taxes the city in a disproportionate manner.

Bristol has long argues that it should get be allowed to spend more of the taxes it generates, but it has been penalised for many years.

If it were allowed to become a more independent city (like Manchester) we would probably see the benefits, but don't just blame the council for everything.

 

 

[Antman]

17 hours ago, havanatopia said:

The Conservatives have not; not in outright control. But like otherMs have said, local councils used to be less political. Not sure if it was better then but 40 years of politics does not seem to have got Bristol anywhere especially with the socialists usually fully or nominally in power. Bristol voters need to be a lot smarter in their choices.

i couldn't find an emoticon for 'you must be kidding me' despite the huge menu available.

'The socialists' ? - which socialists are those? the ones who have been hamstrung by central government taxation?

Mayor Ferguson was an illustration of the problems that beset this city - individuals with huge self interest. looking after number 1 - thats not a party political issue, its a 'manual manipulator' personality issue.

 

[bs3]

17 hours ago, havanatopia said:

The Conservatives have not; not in outright control. But like otherMs have said, local councils used to be less political. Not sure if it was better then but 40 years of politics does not seem to have got Bristol anywhere especially with the socialists usually fully or nominally in power. Bristol voters need to be a lot smarter in their choices.

Lib Dems have been in power for the majority of the new century.

The Labour council did some goods things in the 90s , redevelopment of Queen Square  and college green in the face of the car lobby and the Tories. 

There are some decent councilors in Bristol but this Labour Mayor is a complete joke , he is out of depth , inept and not fit for office. He have lost the support of most of his Labour colleagues and the City Labour MPs. 

He is out of control and he brings the office of Mayor into disruptive.

 

[marmite]

A city the size of Bristol should be run by independent business minded people who can  control a large budget and see what's best for the future of everyone. At the moment anyone, including me, could stand as a candidate and then have a say on how to spend millions of pounds. I honestly wouldn't have a clue, much like our present crop. They are all out of their depth. There are too many with personal agendas such as everyone should ride a bike and save a tree and look after the newts in some pond. We cant physically all live like that, just as we cant all drive big cars wherever we want. Arena, Metro, underground system, getting the buses right, sorting the traffic out. Our councillors couldn't run a raffle. I don't trust a single one of them, and I certainly have no time at all for Marvin Rees. Someone somewhere surely must be able to get something done in our City. Where's Isambard when you want him?

[reddoh]

On 25/08/2018 at 10:56, havanatopia said:

It is little wonder nothing gets done; they blow what budget they have on an over padded number of staff; these fat eating socialist councils invent jobs just so it looks like unemployment is under control but also to swallow cash for 'extra curricular' activities and dead end enquiries that don't report back and are closed down, money washed, for lack of 'a meaningful purpose to continue' or 'we are satisfied we are spending the correct amount of money on office stationary' but a 'few savings of approximately £5k could be made. Cost of report: £10k which of course is buried for 'a duty to be fair to all creeds working in the cost assurance dept'.

In the Crimean War of the 1850's, long before socialism was even a concept, the Foreign Office numbered approximatelly 200 souls. Today it runs into thousands and yet, unlike then, we have the 'all time saving wunderbar' invention called the computer.

And who's rancid idea was it to have them in the first place? The bar steward Blair, thats who.

The guy just scooped up any ideas that added tiers to government and launched them regardless of consequence and cost. 

Anybody is better than the socialist Rees with ideas long since buried into the dirt except Corbyn who wants to take us back to the Red Robbo inertia of the 70's so he can bury enquiry cash in his saggy trousers.

All parties are guilty of waste. But only one is the master. Who has led Bristol City Council since the war? I would be surprised if there was a single Tory administration, certainly since it was made a unitary authority in the early 70's there has only been labour, liberal, just once, or hung.

I thought Ferguson was the best bet to try and clean up the nepotism and get ideas and projects moving... That he failed is more down to what lies beneath and his inability to shift the paradigm because nearly all councils have been left wing or hung and it is entrenched and endemic. At least he tried to shake it up but mostly he met brick walls wherever he went by the chaebol of socialist power in the underbelly.

Time for a cuppa tea.

#fuckMeTwiceInOneDayItotalyAgreeWithYou #stopOrIwillBeBanned 

[reddoh]

Thank you counselor but if they could get off their collective arses there would be FACT 

[Antman]

On 25/08/2018 at 12:32, Lord Northski said:

George did more for Bristol as a city  in one term of office than countless years in power for both Labour and Conservative.

One term of Marvin Has seen absolutely nothing happen. Bristolians deserve Marvin because you don’t know a good thing when you see it. People who put party above policies get what they deserve. A big heap of nothing. 

 

George 'did' many things

his daughter got £150K from the council to run a website

His mate Luke Jerram got several contracts for Clifton based art installations - ( He seemingly forgot that Bristol extends beyond Clifton and Southville)

He tried to get the land around Temple Meads developed for an arena despite, allegedly owning land in that area so that he would profit from the deal.

he sold off Avonmouth docks for a pittance - allegedly as again, he owns land down there and so the developers with whom he did the deal would have to pay him handsomely for it.

Objected to the Ashton Gate development once his own proposal was ignored. (supported the objections to a new Sainsburys in Southville, while supporting a new Sainsburys in North Bristol)

etc, etc...

 

take a look through the 'Green Bristol' spending (in the public domain) and see what george 'did' for Bristol (and his mates)

[Lord Northski]

2 hours ago, Antman said:

George 'did' many things

his daughter got £150K from the council to run a website

His mate Luke Jerram got several contracts for Clifton based art installations - ( He seemingly forgot that Bristol extends beyond Clifton and Southville)

He tried to get the land around Temple Meads developed for an arena despite, allegedly owning land in that area so that he would profit from the deal.

he sold off Avonmouth docks for a pittance - allegedly as again, he owns land down there and so the developers with whom he did the deal would have to pay him handsomely for it.

Objected to the Ashton Gate development once his own proposal was ignored. (supported the objections to a new Sainsburys in Southville, while supporting a new Sainsburys in North Bristol)

etc, etc...

 

take a look through the 'Green Bristol' spending (in the public domain) and see what george 'did' for Bristol (and his mates)

Reading through the lines it appears that you would accept that he was devious, but effective. 

Reminds me of a quote I once heard “There are two things you don’t really want to know how they’re made,  Laws and Sausages” 

Guessing you can add Bristol politics to that + plus let’s not forget that the mayoral role was created to break the logjam of inaction that was crippling our city. Who can blame the person entrusted by the city  to do this by giving key jobs to those he probably trusted most to get the job done.  Guessing it’s striking a balance between the disadvantages of absolute power and it’s potential for corruption, weighed against inaction and ineffectiveness caused by too much oversight eg a camel being a horse designed by committee. 

[Antman]

24 minutes ago, Lord Northski said:

Reading through the lines it appears that you would accept that he was devious, but effective. 

Reminds me of a quote I once heard “There are two things you don’t really want to know how they’re made,  Laws and Sausages” 

Guessing you can add Bristol politics to that + plus let’s not forget that the mayoral role was created to break the logjam of inaction that was crippling our city. Who can blame the person entrusted by the city  to do this by giving key jobs to those he probably trusted most to get the job done.  Guessing it’s striking a balance between the disadvantages of absolute power and it’s potential for corruption, weighed against inaction and ineffectiveness caused by too much oversight eg a camel being a horse designed by committee. 

i'm not sure what lines you were reading between because i thought he was totally feckin' useless. not effective, just devious and self serving.

always has been, long before he became mayor, slippery fecker

 

[Lord Northski]

58 minutes ago, Antman said:

i'm not sure what lines you were reading between because i thought he was totally feckin' useless. not effective, just devious and self serving.

always has been, long before he became mayor, slippery fecker

 

Based on the above, one can only imagine how angry you’re going to get when Marvin finishes his term of office then.

Unless you’re the type who might rationalise it by saying how fair and transparent the ineffectiveness has been. In which case I stand by my original point. 

 

 

[Lack of Action Man]

16 hours ago, Lord Northski said:

Typical blinkered Bristolian political nonsense, slagging absolutely everything off without a single constructive point or suggestion of ways to improve things. 

Congratulations you Luddite, you’ve got the mayor and city council you deserve. You should stand for mayor yourself and save everyone the bother of hoping things will improve. Vote OldBallJim, the same shit different day candidate. Or you could stand for Labour, same difference. 

 

 

 

It really is a shame you have to resort to name calling and frankly bizarre statements about my political stance since you have never met me, in an attack on me as the poster rather than my post.

I would suggest that if, as you have shown, you are unable to craft a measured response to my counterargument to your initial points that you hit the ignore button? It may save you a lot of stress in the long run. 

Something that does irk me about your post (and indeed your original post) is that your attitude comes across on this thread as that your opinion is the only one that matters, and that it should be pressed onto the remaining c500k of us who live on Bristol because you think that it is a good idea? I wonder who that reminds me of? 

We live in a democracy, and whilst it has it's flaws, I would take that any day over a dictatorial regime where the working man has little to no say. 

Finally, you say 'typical blinkered Bristolian' - why shouldn't my heritage have any bearing on my opinions? Are you from Bristol? I'd counter that the problem with Bristol for far too long has been career politicians, and a pair of mayors, who have not acted with the interests of the Bristol people in mind or heart. The city's political system has been for too long dominates by initiative that is far removed from what your working class Bristolian family wants or needs.

[YorksRed]

On 25/08/2018 at 13:19, Nibor said:

Temple Meads has far, far better transport links and people are already in town for work and will hang around and go to dinner and a gig after.

Filton is an abysmal idea and is only being discussed because of the gifts and trips the Malay firm have been splashing around.

You're watching corruption in action.

I work in Leeds.  The arena is close to the city centre and that’s what I do; have a drink and a meal after work, walk up to the arena and get the train home afterwards.  It has really added something to the city centre as a “destination”, has helped businesses nearby and no additional parking was built.

[frenchred]

On 25/08/2018 at 13:09, Lord Northski said:

Cycle lanes - good for everyone, just need more of them  

RPZ - Blooming brilliant, apart from for those who want to park outside someone else’s house for work. 

Metrobus - to early to say

20 mph zones  - annoying for motorists who are badly organised and late. blooming great for those who have to walk or cycle around the area or who have kids or the elderly  

So I stand by my point. There’s always people who will complain about absolutely everything, and sometimes their opinion isn’t worth shit   

 

Absolutely everything I deplore about our fine city!

[Lord Northski]

3 minutes ago, frenchred said:

Absolutely everything I deplore about our fine city!

Well said Sir, great to hear you feel strongly, although just from clarification: are you in favour of these initiatives or against them? 

[frenchred]

5 minutes ago, Lord Northski said:

Well said Sir, great to hear you feel strongly, although just from clarification: are you in favour of these initiatives or against them? 

Against every one of them!

[Lord Northski]

3 minutes ago, frenchred said:

Against every one of them!

To be clear. You’re against cycle lanes too? 

[lenred]

1 hour ago, YorksRed said:

I work in Leeds.  The arena is close to the city centre and that’s what I do; have a drink and a meal after work, walk up to the arena and get the train home afterwards.  It has really added something to the city centre as a “destination”, has helped businesses nearby and no additional parking was built.

Liverpool (another relatively new arena) is exactly the same. Right near the Docks, conference centre next door and ample car parking with hotels on site as well if you want to stay over. It’s so so simple. But not in Bristol it seems......

[Mr Popodopolous]

18 hours ago, Antman said:

whilst it is more succesful, the government also taxes the city in a disproportionate manner.

Bristol has long argues that it should get be allowed to spend more of the taxes it generates, but it has been penalised for many years.

If it were allowed to become a more independent city (like Manchester) we would probably see the benefits, but don't just blame the council for everything.

 

 

Said it before, we politically fall in between 2 stools (as in shit and shitter  )

Being serious though, yeah between 2 stools. We are neither deprieved enough taken as a whole to get extra cash down the years, initiatives etc from Central Government.

However, neither are we sufficiently prosperous as a city IMO in terms of tax base to really push on unlike say certain ultra rich wards of London (an extreme example I accept). Plus we're not seen as sufficiently politically important to get nice goodies or freebies (think South Wales, or Scotland- let alone NI to keep the peace). 

Our council has never been of especially high calibre but none of this helps.

Would also argue the building of consistent student flats in the centre will help to further erode the tax base for the council maybe not now but in the medium to long run. What will happen- maybe already is- is that actual businesses that generate tax and rates and all that will shift out to North Somerset and South Gloucestershire with a resultant steady reduction in tax base for the council.

PS, arena definitely should be in Bristol itself as opposed to Filton.

For a start, don't really consider Filton as Bristol particularly. Geographic views aside though, won't benefit Bristol much out there will it.

The other point, how do other cities manage it? Their arenas aren't on the fringes, with respect a little bit of the middle of nowhere.

[Mr Popodopolous]

On 25/08/2018 at 13:29, Red-Robbo said:

It's about time we got rid of the BCC/SGC nonsense.

One authority for the Bristol metropolitan area is the only way to go for infrastructure projects.

We have a metro mayor.

Forget his name, some bald bloke.

What's he doing/done for the region? Barely hear about him- **** all I assume.

[Northern Red]

2 hours ago, YorksRed said:

I work in Leeds.  The arena is close to the city centre and that’s what I do; have a drink and a meal after work, walk up to the arena and get the train home afterwards.  It has really added something to the city centre as a “destination”, has helped businesses nearby and no additional parking was built.

Manchester is exactly the same, in the centre, next to a railway station and tram stop with plenty of restaurants and bars nearby so you can make a day/night of it.

[Mr Popodopolous]

On 25/08/2018 at 11:07, pillred said:

surely not 12 thousand all at once though, their probably spaced out over the day and also know the area, concerts would draw people in from all over the country most of whom had never been to Bristol, as someone else commented the public transport and parking just could not cope without major investment, would we get that as well? 

I give you Manchester Arena- central.

Cardiff Arena- Believe it's not out in the sticks.

Leeds- Others have mentioned on here. Fairly central.

Liverpool- Will have to look up the postcode, however I bet it's not their equivalent of Filton. @Northern Red might well correct me however!

Nottingham- Sure it's fairly central.

Someone on here said 02 had little parking by it.

Might I ask, what makes Bristol so different?

[Cowshed]

11 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

Manchester is exactly the same, in the centre, next to a railway station and tram stop with plenty of restaurants and bars nearby so you can make a day/night of it.

It adds to the cultural vibrancy of that City. When Massive Attack played at Queens Square the City centre became more alive, its cafes and bars in the vicinity were filled. 

A arena at Temple Meads will reinvigorate that area and create an urban renaissance linking the City centre to Temple meads and on. It reflects Mr Fergusons millennium mile linking significant and historically important parts of Bristol together.  

Mr Rees does NOT want the above for Bristol. He wants people to drive into Filton and OUT. He simply has no vision or ideas that approach the above or would leave a similar legacy for future generations … He is a ****. 

[Cider_boy]

49 minutes ago, Lord Northski said:

To be clear. You’re against cycle lanes too? 

I'm against badly thought out cycle lanes.

Ones which don't really go anywhere, or don't have an adequate 'end', so cyclists, pedestrians and/or cars all seem to have the right of way.

Ones on what used to be pavements, the 'shared spaces' (eg Queen Sq) which make pedestrians less safe 'cos cyclists aren't willing to be considerate because they 'have a right to be there', so don't show consideration to pedestrians that they demand drivers show them, when they are on the 'shared space' which is the road.

Ones on pavements with trees, lampposts etc (Coronation Road), so no cyclist uses them, so uses the road instead (which then causes tension as drivers moan that they should use the cycle path, but you can actually see why they don't.

Properly planned ones which cyclists use rather than roads are better. Baldwin Street (although the road has become less useable generally), Prince Street sort of thing. However, as a pedestrian the area between the Bristol Hotel (will always be Jurys to me really) and the newsagents, trying to cross to Queens Sq, bikes seem to come racing from absolutely every direction now.

 

So, although the question wasn't aimed at me, I am against cycles lanes shoehorned into places there isn't space for them, yes.

[Lord Northski]

3 minutes ago, Cider_boy said:

I'm against badly thought out cycle lanes.

Ones which don't really go anywhere, or don't have an adequate 'end', so cyclists, pedestrians and/or cars all seem to have the right of way.

Ones on what used to be pavements, the 'shared spaces' (eg Queen Sq) which make pedestrians less safe 'cos cyclists aren't willing to be considerate because they 'have a right to be there', so don't show consideration to pedestrians that they demand drivers show them, when they are on the 'shared space' which is the road.

Ones on pavements with trees, lampposts etc (Coronation Road), so no cyclist uses them, so uses the road instead (which then causes tension as drivers moan that they should use the cycle path, but you can actually see why they don't.

Properly planned ones which cyclists use rather than roads are better. Baldwin Street (although the road has become less useable generally), Prince Street sort of thing. However, as a pedestrian the area between the Bristol Hotel (will always be Jurys to me really) and the newsagents, trying to cross to Queens Sq, bikes seem to come racing from absolutely every direction now.

 

So, although the question wasn't aimed at me, I am against cycles lanes shoehorned into places there isn't space for them, yes.

So although you said against them earlier, you’re actually in favour of cycle lanes, 

So moving on to 20 MPH zones which you also said you’re against. Do you think that pedestrians and cyclists are safer in the city centre because the traffic will be moving more slowly? And if a few people a year are alive today rather than been squashed to death is a good thing? 

[frenchred]

1 hour ago, Lord Northski said:

To be clear. You’re against cycle lanes too? 

Until cyclists contribute to them, the same as car drivers contribute, yes

[pillred]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I give you Manchester Arena- central.

Cardiff Arena- Believe it's not out in the sticks.

Leeds- Others have mentioned on here. Fairly central.

Liverpool- Will have to look up the postcode, however I bet it's not their equivalent of Filton. @Northern Red might well correct me however!

Nottingham- Sure it's fairly central.

Someone on here said 02 had little parking by it.

Might I ask, what makes Bristol so different?

the shambles that is our council, and public transport.

[elhombrecito]

29 minutes ago, frenchred said:

Until cyclists contribute to them, the same as car drivers contribute, yes

Both roads and cycle lanes are paid for through general taxation. Therefore, cyclists and drivers contribute equally.

[Northern Red]

2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I give you Manchester Arena- central.

Cardiff Arena- Believe it's not out in the sticks.

Leeds- Others have mentioned on here. Fairly central.

Liverpool- Will have to look up the postcode, however I bet it's not their equivalent of Filton. @Northern Red might well correct me however!

Nottingham- Sure it's fairly central.

Someone on here said 02 had little parking by it.

Might I ask, what makes Bristol so different?

As @lenred mentioned, Liverpool's is on the Waterfront, and has plenty of supporting infrastructure (parking, hotels, restaurants etc) close by, plus it's only a 10-15 minute walk away from the city centre.

[Cider_boy]

2 hours ago, Lord Northski said:

So although you said against them earlier, you’re actually in favour of cycle lanes, 

So moving on to 20 MPH zones which you also said you’re against. Do you think that pedestrians and cyclists are safer in the city centre because the traffic will be moving more slowly? And if a few people a year are alive today rather than been squashed to death is a good thing? 

I did say the question wasn't aimed at me, I jumped in to a discussion you were already having.

However, on 20 mph zones - 

On the right roads, I have no problem with them. The bit of road round Broadmead eg past the front of Debenhams I always thought should be 20 mph at most. At times it's almost a pedestrianised area that cars are allowed to drive through.

In other places the 20 mph speed limit seem pointless and you can't see why they have been made 20, no sign of pedestrians etc.

I say that as someone who spends more time as a pedestrian in Bristol than a as driver. 

And sometimes as a pedestrian I would prefer 30. The time it can take waiting to cross roads as cars crawl past at 20...

[Antman]

17 hours ago, Lord Northski said:

Based on the above, one can only imagine how angry you’re going to get when Marvin finishes his term of office then.

Unless you’re the type who might rationalise it by saying how fair and transparent the ineffectiveness has been. In which case I stand by my original point. 

 

 

you need to change your medication mate.