NickJ Posted November 12, 2018 Report Share Posted November 12, 2018 On 11/11/2018 at 14:01, spudski said: ....for me, this is where we have lost our 'identity'...and why we are less effective. We've become a side this season where we are more reliant on crosses into the box when on the offensive. It's very ineffective. Easy to defend against and leads us wide open to counter attack and being out of position. We've gone from playing attractive and effective inter passing in front of the box and breaking the lines, to 50/50 balls into a box, where it's often down to luck what's going to happen next. What occured to me is...is this the style or type of football that LJ actually wants, or is it being asked of from above? It just doesn't seem like a LJ way of playing. It's not something he's done throughout his managerial career. What is apparent...is that City through the ages always want to play with wide men and have played with loads of crosses into said box...regardless of manager. It just screams something is not right. Everyone knows how better we've played with more direct interplay around the box...instead of wide men crossing. Since Kent and Leko...Elliason now...Ashton getting a nudge from above? All seems way too odd for me...other than that, LJ is losing it if he thinks that system is going to work with our playing staff. https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/whats-point-crossing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original OTIB Posted November 12, 2018 Report Share Posted November 12, 2018 On 11/11/2018 at 14:01, spudski said: ....for me, this is where we have lost our 'identity'...and why we are less effective. We've become a side this season where we are more reliant on crosses into the box when on the offensive. It's very ineffective. Easy to defend against and leads us wide open to counter attack and being out of position. We've gone from playing attractive and effective inter passing in front of the box and breaking the lines, to 50/50 balls into a box, where it's often down to luck what's going to happen next. What occured to me is...is this the style or type of football that LJ actually wants, or is it being asked of from above? It just doesn't seem like a LJ way of playing. It's not something he's done throughout his managerial career. What is apparent...is that City through the ages always want to play with wide men and have played with loads of crosses into said box...regardless of manager. It just screams something is not right. Everyone knows how better we've played with more direct interplay around the box...instead of wide men crossing. Since Kent and Leko...Elliason now...Ashton getting a nudge from above? All seems way too odd for me...other than that, LJ is losing it if he thinks that system is going to work with our playing staff. I think the debate is misunderstood in part to the extent that fans believe that players should not try to beat the man occupying the left or right back position when square to the box or thereabouts, for shape/positional reasons. This is often total nonsense and players are equally confused, constantly feigning to go wide only to opt to go inside again. This confusion also leads players to avoid driving into the box. If you want to look at the best, then Man City do indeed beat the last man over and over again from inside right and left positions (and occasionally wider) and then angle the ball back into the danger area. Often, this is with the only the expectation of oncoming runners or it can be an intentional, pinpoint pass (more often in fact). To my mind, the former is a form of crossing, it's just in a narrower area. The main point is that runners need to be arriving and that the opposing team is turned to face their own goal to a greater extent. Teams spend most of our games just watching us with the sensible expectation that very little will happen re: the aforementioned and that they can comfortably watch and wait for us to mess it up and they will be able to take control. It happens time and time again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted November 12, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Judda said: Especially with a cart horse up front who can't read the flight of the ball and attack it... The only reason I see Famara being of any use, is at set pieces... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eardun Posted November 13, 2018 Report Share Posted November 13, 2018 I agree with @Olé that we are seeing how crucial Reid was to our inter-play around the edge of the box; it was more than his goals. He was clever, skilful and, most importantly, strong in possession. I accept we have players who are energetic and who are full of movement - and have different attributes - but are any as good as Reid in the edge of box role? I wonder if LJ doubts that we can play the same way as last season. Agree the crossing was poor on Saturday, although my sense is that LJ thinks the crossing is OK (think he said as much) but feels the forwards should be getting on the end of them. The pre-match comments were a bit odd too. Along the lines of we now have some ball playing centre backs which means we are less direct/slower to build; we don’t have the option of a Magnússon long throw into Flint’s head etc. On Saturday we started seeing the centre backs lumping aimless long balls and Kalas taking long throws towards Baker, and it did concern me that our formation change in defence was purely to accommodate the latter! Surely if we have ball playing defenders we should be able to have quicker and sharper interaction though midfield - a positive not a negative? Plus the CBs can break the lines by bringing the ball forward. We should be using our ball players to sharpen up and quicken our passing rather than be concerned that they make us less direct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted November 13, 2018 Report Share Posted November 13, 2018 On 11/11/2018 at 20:43, Cowshed said: things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted November 13, 2018 Report Share Posted November 13, 2018 52 minutes ago, JonDolman said: We cross from far too deep. Diedhiou is good at attacking the ball with balls from the byeline. He's no Andy Carrol though, so will struggle with those deep balls. One example was that header he had from quite a distance second half that looked impossible to generate enough power in to score. It was quite a good effort to be fair, but no way is he scoring from there. We seemed worried about Preston on the break, so would put in early balls so we still had our shape, rather than working it to the byeline or passing it in and around the box waiting for a runner to slip it through to. We go from one extreme to the other. Passing at every opportunity against Reading and too much free flowing movement, leaving us open on the break. And then against Preston looking for the early ball at every opportunity. No wonder the players look like they haven't played together before. That was the actual plan though Jon As LJ explained post match the plan was to hang up crosses for Famara (To quote Johnson ‘rather than whip crosses in a la Beckham’ I had noticed O’Dowda pre match going through a strange routine where Holden was knocking balls out to him and he was controlling and then scooping , chipping crosses in to box as with a sand wedge in a exaggerated manner He was the only one who was specifically practising these crosses .......albeit a pointless practise as he never got on the pitch ! I commented on and was getting extremely frustrated during the game with the floated crosses not realising that this was the instruction As you say FD is no Andy Carroll so I thought this strange, and would prefer to see crosses whipped in with pace However as @Esmond Million's Bung Has pointed out a number of times Famara doesn’t cope well with those either , as his movement is non existent , and movement being the key So I don’t know what the answer , or FDs perceived strengths are anymore Agree with you about where the crosses were delivered from Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted November 13, 2018 Report Share Posted November 13, 2018 8 hours ago, eardun said: I agree with @Olé that we are seeing how crucial Reid was to our inter-play around the edge of the box; it was more than his goals. He was clever, skilful and, most importantly, strong in possession. I accept we have players who are energetic and who are full of movement - and have different attributes - but are any as good as Reid in the edge of box role? I wonder if LJ doubts that we can play the same way as last season. Agree the crossing was poor on Saturday, although my sense is that LJ thinks the crossing is OK (think he said as much) but feels the forwards should be getting on the end of them. The pre-match comments were a bit odd too. Along the lines of we now have some ball playing centre backs which means we are less direct/slower to build; we don’t have the option of a Magnússon long throw into Flint’s head etc. On Saturday we started seeing the centre backs lumping aimless long balls and Kalas taking long throws towards Baker, and it did concern me that our formation change in defence was purely to accommodate the latter! Surely if we have ball playing defenders we should be able to have quicker and sharper interaction though midfield - a positive not a negative? Plus the CBs can break the lines by bringing the ball forward. We should be using our ball players to sharpen up and quicken our passing rather than be concerned that they make us less direct. Agreed with this. To me, ball playing centre backs are perfect for a 4-3-3 or a 4-2-3-1 or even a 3-5-2, ideally though in the case of the latter we would perhaps play Kelly in said setup then you can have 3 centre backs comfortable on the ball like Sheffield United perhaps. To me though, as I say 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 as you say between the lines, sharper and quicker interaction through midfield- another thing, with a traditional 4-4-2, creation of triangles is highly difficult. Seems fairly pointless to me having ball playing centre backs and a play out from the back ethos to then be lumping long balls, long throws and I would add delivering a preponderance of crosses. Think in the modern times that low, drilled crosses with pace maybe better than the traditional method tbh. That said, Diedhiou isn't the best technically so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Oil Services Posted November 13, 2018 Report Share Posted November 13, 2018 Man City's much heralded 44 pass third goal at the weekend - was the 44th one a pass, or a mere cross? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted November 13, 2018 Report Share Posted November 13, 2018 11 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said: Man City's much heralded 44 pass third goal at the weekend - was the 44th one a pass, or a mere cross? On the subject of football style and such goals atMan City Anyone see Cardiff’s first goal on Saturday How many passes ? Hes a dinosaur that Warnock. Hoof ball , Hoof ball , Hoof ball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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