Enough of all this Johnson out Rubbish

[westonred]

2 minutes ago, reddogkev said:

Well, the thread title is clear, and has received 68 forms of endorsement; a previous thread asking if LJ should realistically be sacked, or something to that affect, has not received any endorsement, so you do the maths!

Also, the attendances at Ashton Gate are still quite high compared to years gone by.  I suggest most people are content , if not overly excited by, Lee Johnson as the manager.

He is doing a steady job minus 4 proven first teamers from last year, and is sitting 6 points out of the play off spots.  Lee is alright by most of us.

Well its all about opinions you say most of us can you back that up by statistics, no of course you can't but the majority of City fans i know and trust me i know lots they all want him out

[cidered abroad]

1 minute ago, westonred said:

Well its all about opinions you say most of us can you back that up by statistics, no of course you can't but the majority of City fans i know and trust me i know lots they all want him out

Agreed. Most I speak to want him gone but are resigned to SL keeping him in situ.

[reddogkev]

4 minutes ago, westonred said:

There needs to be a total shake up starting with Mark Ashton our recruitment is a joke we are crying out for a decent forward and instead of bringing in a Marriott or Abraham who were both keen to come (allegedly) we always bring in the cheap option Eisa and Adelakun are players for the future and no way ready for championship football. Look also at the last January window what an absolute joke,  Diony had anyone actually seen the guy play before getting him in on loan ?  We also need a good creative attacking midfielder as we have no one to open up an oppostions defence .  LJ seems tactic less he doesnt know his best starting 11 makes poor subsitutions (most of the time) and the football we are playing since the Man Utd game has been dire

Thats why i think we need a change now !!  

I appreciate your answer, any such shake up like that would have to be a summer thing, that is too much to do during a season and could actually cause City to slip into the relegation spots, if not managed correctly.

I don't tend to think about the recruitment too much, as there are so many market factors / commercial sides to consider; I simply accept that as a fan we know it is never easy to bring in the players a club truly wants or needs.  On the whole, and this is no joke I assure you, I don't think the recruitment has been that bad (apart from the January window flop).  The serious failing was Gustav Engvall, but that has been done to death.

[Cidre Monita]

2 minutes ago, reddogkev said:

Well, the thread title is clear, and has received 68 forms of endorsement; a previous thread asking if LJ should realistically be sacked, or something to that affect, has not received any endorsement, so you do the maths!

Also, the attendances at Ashton Gate are still quite high compared to years gone by.  I suggest most people are content -if not overly excited - with Lee Johnson as the manager.

He is doing a steady job minus 4 proven first teamers from last year, and is sitting 6 points out of the play off spots.  Lee is alright by most of us.

Kalas, Weimann and Webster would suggest to you that they are also proven first team regulars at Championship level. Maggs was not a regular. So he changed 3 for 3, with all of the players earning more than the players who left. He also has both England under 21 left backs at his disposal. 

He is doing an average job with very strong resources and backing. 

[reddogkev]

2 minutes ago, Psychopomp said:

Kalas, Weimann and Webster would suggest to you that they are also proven first team regulars at Championship level. Maggs was not a regular. So he changed 3 for 3, with all of the players earning more than the players who left. He also has both England under 21 left backs at his disposal. 

He is doing an average job with very strong resources and backing. 

I would 100% agree he is doing an average job, which shouldn't warrant such a call for his head on a regular basis, unless the fans that do so have become fed up with life in the Championship and are looking for the next manager to try to push us towards the Premier League.

Anyway, for me personally, the thread is done to death now.  I will retire from OTIB until Sunday morning and await the Millwall game with eager expectation of a good win!

[keynshamred]

9 minutes ago, Psychopomp said:

Kalas, Weimann and Webster would suggest to you that they are also proven first team regulars at Championship level. Maggs was not a regular. So he changed 3 for 3, with all of the players earning more than the players who left. He also has both England under 21 left backs at his disposal. 

He is doing an average job with very strong resources and backing. 

Strong resources, how do you work that one out? What compared to most in the top half. Villa, forest, WBA etc? The players we bought in are worth less than the ones that have left and how do you know are on higher wages? Just guessing. Bound to take half a season for a new team to settle so we're not at that point yet. Admittedly we have two top left backs but Johnson gave Kelly his debut and should take credit for bringing through good young players!! 

[Cidre Monita]

3 minutes ago, reddogkev said:

I would 100% agree he is doing an average job, which shouldn't warrant such a call for his head on a regular basis, unless the fans that do so have become fed up with life in the Championship and are looking for the next manager to try to push us towards the Premier League.

Anyway, for me personally, the thread is done to death now.  I will retire from OTIB until Sunday morning and await the Millwall game with eager expectation of a good win!

I fully understand what you are saying, and in part agree. I do not think anyone is saying mid table is an issue, it is not. It is the lack of clarity of what LJ is trying to achieve, and the constantly changing excuses, game plan, and signings that mean there is little confidence he is the right person to take the club strategy forward to the next step. Despite this, no-one wants a relegation battle to justify an opinion. The club is bigger than all of us. The last win should give confidence to deliver against a poor Millwall side. Enjoy the game. 

[westonred]

1 minute ago, keynshamred said:

Strong resources, how do you work that one out? What compared to most in the top half. Villa, forest, WBA etc? The players we bought in are worth less than the ones taut have left and how do you know are on higher wages? Just guessing. Bound to take half a sesson for a new team to settle so we're not at that point yet. Admittedly we have two top left backs but Johnson gave Kelly hos debut and should take credit for bringing through good young players!! 

Personally i think we have a makings of a strong squad but we do need leaders on the pitch a hard man who bosses the opposition we are too lightweight all over the pitch . Also we need another 2 championship quality strikers we all love Matty T but he hasn't really done it in the championship. Eisa or Adelakun not ready yet.  we also need a creatve midfielder Bannan type player  The underlying problem is Championship quality players cost money which we will not pay,  so until the purse strings are relaxed we will still be a midtable championship side.

[Sturny]

34 minutes ago, reddogkev said:

Sturny, there is nothing to turn around this season; we have suffered some bad results, that is all, despite this we are 14th in the table, 6 points off of the top six.  There are ten worse teams than us in the Championship, that is a fact at the moment.

After we have beat Milwall on Sunday (which I'm confident we will) let's see where we are then.

There has been some horrific performances this season (some good too) but recently the latter. 

I'll be over the moon if we beat Millwall, especially if we play like we have in the past few games and pull out a result. 

[Natchfever]

3 hours ago, keynshamred said:

No nibbles mate, there is still thousands of fans that can see why Johnson is still our manager. I know alot and they won't come on here cause of the idiots. These idiots are always the same people and it makes it out to be alot that want him out. Well we are sitting mid table and with a win Sunday will be nearer the play offs than relegation. Forums are just for people to have a moan, not what the true fan base want!!

So conversely there are thousands of fans who don't use this forum who want rid of LJ arguably ?

Like you I know a lot of fans, and the vast majority want shot of him.

As for calling people with an opposing view to you "idiots" you need to grow up a bit with respect. This is a forum chock full of genuinely passionate fans who care for the club, but do not like the current head coach or his team for reasons which many have articulated very clearly.

Do you consider all anti Johnson posters to be "idiots" by the way, or just some ?

[Alessandro]

7 minutes ago, reddogkev said:

I would 100% agree he is doing an average job, which shouldn't warrant such a call for his head on a regular basis, unless the fans that do so have become fed up with life in the Championship and are looking for the next manager to try to push us towards the Premier League.

Anyway, for me personally, the thread is done to death now.  I will retire from OTIB until Sunday morning and await the Millwall game with eager expectation of a good win!

I think you've inadvertently hit the nail on the head. 

He is doing an average job. If he was as bad, if we were as bad, as some people like to portray we are, we would have been relegated for the last 2 seasons in a row, and will get relegated this year.

And yet, despite things being awful, we sit, nearly 20 games in, nearly half way through the season - mid table, closer to the top 6 than the bottom 3. So perhaps we need to take a breath and a step back.

Again - it all comes down to EXPECTATIONS - most people sensibly agree we are mid-table fodder - which means runs of defeats and winless periods, then a series of wins - never really looking like troubling the top 6 whilst maintaining the 'fear' of a relegation slip. That's mid-table football.

But people can't help themselves and even though they say they're realists, get sucked in to the idea of "What if" - what if we a different manager, if we bought this player etc etc we might, might be in with a promotion chance. That's not be realistic, but secretly optimistic. Deep down all the Jouters afraid of relegation are secret optimists. 

 

 

[Cidre Monita]

7 minutes ago, keynshamred said:

Strong resources, how do you work that one out? What compared to most in the top half. Villa, forest, WBA etc? The players we bought in are worth less than the ones that have left and how do you know are on higher wages? Just guessing. Bound to take half a season for a new team to settle so we're not at that point yet. Admittedly we have two top left backs but Johnson gave Kelly his debut and should take credit for bringing through good young players!! 

They are on higher wages I know for a fact. I don't need to guess, you do. We spent on wages not transfer fees. that was the summer strategy. The club cannot do both so sought out value with tactical signings. In the case of Webster and Kalas they did a very good job too. 

Ask SL how much money he spends each year if you do not accept strong resources, or ask Mick Mcarthy about running a team with almost zero transfer budget for years when the club is run to match the actual income. It is not parachute payment level of course, but it is hardly the cheap option. 

SL himself said we can compete, at least for the stating 11 for wages. His words. 

 

[RobintheRed Red]

On 29/11/2018 at 10:56, keynshamred said:

Bloody good post. We sell our 3 best players and everyone expects us to be in the top 6. Deluded fools! If we finish anywhere between 10th and 16th we should all be happy. Think last night would have helped confidence and we have big players coming back to fitness. There is no reason why we can't go on a run of wins now. Always better against better teams so bring it on!!! 

No we don't expect us to be top six we expect to watch attractive football not the shite we have witnessed this season 

[Sturny]

11 minutes ago, westonred said:

Personally i think we have a makings of a strong squad but we do need leaders on the pitch a hard man who bosses the opposition we are too lightweight all over the pitch . Also we need another 2 championship quality strikers we all love Matty T but he hasn't really done it in the championship. Eisa or Adelakun not ready yet.  we also need a creatve midfielder Bannan type player  The underlying problem is Championship quality players cost money which we will not pay,  so until the purse strings are relaxed we will still be a midtable championship side.

Careful with that sentence, there's a huge love fest with MT on here. I feel he always comes on when we've run out of ideas. I'm hoping Eisa takes MT's sub place as soon as he's up and ready. 

I'd love Bannan at this club, think a player like that could potentially turn some of our performances around. 

What's stopping us from reaching into our pockets overseas again? Tbf Engvall and Djuric weren't the shiniest of apples. 

[keynshamred]

11 minutes ago, RobintheRed Red said:

No we don't expect us to be top six we expect to watch attractive football not the shite we have witnessed this season 

I expect alot of teams down the bottom have played attractive football and look where they are? It's not all about attractive football it's about staying in this league first and foremost within the budget we have!! I will add at times the football has been very good. Did you go to wba? We lost. We've  played attractive football under other managers and where did it get us. No where!! Up and down the leagues. This league is 5th best in the world don't forget and one of the most competitive!! 

[keynshamred]

13 minutes ago, Psychopomp said:

They are on higher wages I know for a fact. I don't need to guess, you do. We spent on wages not transfer fees. that was the summer strategy. The club cannot do both so sought out value with tactical signings. In the case of Webster and Kalas they did a very good job too. 

Ask SL how much money he spends each year if you do not accept strong resources, or ask Mick Mcarthy about running a team with almost zero transfer budget for years when the club is run to match the actual income. It is not parachute payment level of course, but it is hardly the cheap option. 

SL himself said we can compete, at least for the stating 11 for wages. His words. 

 

Compete for top 6? That is a utter rubbish. Some of these clubs have parachute payments flooding in and rich foreign owners. Our budget is 14th in the league. Where are we? Right on par. Can you sack a manager on that basis? 

[Sturny]

13 minutes ago, keynshamred said:

I expect alot of teams down the bottom have played attractive football and look where they are? It's not all about attractive football it's about staying in this league first and foremost within the budget we have!! We've  played attractive football under other managers and where did it get us. No where!! Up and down the leagues. This league is 5th best in the world don't forget and one of the most competitive!! 

I remember at the start of the season there was an expectations thread. Hardly anybody said anything about "just stay in the league" 

How expectation have dropped. 

[TheCulturalBomb]

At what point do we say enoughs enough? Our improvement over 3 years is no way near good enough, consistency that is abysmal with a ridculous amount of losing streaks. We are worse than last year.. 

[RobintheRed Red]

5 minutes ago, keynshamred said:

I expect alot of teams down the bottom have played attractive football and look where they are? It's not all about attractive football it's about staying in this league first and foremost within the budget we have!! I will add at times the football has been very good. Did you go to wba? We lost. We've  played attractive football under other managers and where did it get us. No where!! Up and down the leagues. This league is 5th best in the world don't forget and one of the most competitive!! 

Well if you want to watch that dross every week all the best to you people paying thirty odd quid a ticket want to be entertained not watch players playing out of position or players much of a muchness 

[keynshamred]

2 minutes ago, Sturny said:

I remember at the start of the season there was an expectation's thread. Hardly anybody said anything about "just stay in the league" 

How expectation have dropped. 

Your right, but that just shows what a good job Johnson did last year and expectations were raised. Unfortunately when you sell your 3 best players and don't use that money to re invest that's what happens. Unfortunately the club needs the money, as in countless debt every year to lansdown!!

[TMWANG50]

Id say be careful what you wish for in the current situation as I will explain using our latest opponents Ipswich as an example (some will argue its chalk and cheese but I think there are a few parallels);

Management - Mick McCarthy - similar to Johnson didn't play a great style of football and the "fans" wanted to move away from average league positions (16th & 12th in last 2 seasons) & performances and move on to a new man. Similar to us they have a decent fan base but don't want to spend mega money so go with a young manager with a good record in the lower leagues. This didn't work out very quickly now they have Lambert again not a stella appointment and he now has a massive job on his hands in half a season. Which makes you wonder who we would attract if Johnson was relieved of his duties using Ipswich's recruitment as a comparative?

Players out - Lost 3 key players in the summer - Waghorn, Webster, Garner for a combined £10m. Sound familiar?

Players In - again despite making money in the market they sign 3 players for a lot less for around £3m with a good record at a lower level in Harrison, Jackson, Williams but now all struggling to make the grade in a new team at a higher level. We may  have spent nearer £10m and gone more with experience but we are in a similar struggle to get the new boys either in the team or performing at a consistent level compared to the players who have moved on.

We maybe very disheartened with mid table and the performances this year but I'd rather be here than where they are?

There may have been very little between the two teams on the night but at the moment I would say we are "hopefully" heading in different directions with a bit of patience, players back from injury and maybe having a look at a couple of new faces in January!

 

[keynshamred]

3 minutes ago, TheCulturalBomb said:

At what point do we say enoughs enough? Our improvement over 3 years is no way near good enough, consistency that is abysmal with a ridculous amount of losing streaks. We are worse than last year.. 

Why are we worse than last year? We sold our 3 best players without re investing all the money. We are not in a finacial position to either!! Constantly losing money year in year out!! 

[keynshamred]

6 minutes ago, RobintheRed Red said:

Well if you want to watch that dross every week all the best to you people paying thirty odd quid a ticket want to be entertained not watch players playing out of position or players much of a muchness 

Yeah well I will carry on going every week and for the last god knows how many years. I am happy to be a mid table club playing in a top league. I can assure you I'm proud to support the club and have a top chairman and manager that loves the club!! Good times, as in the prem aren't many years away under this regime! Good young players improving every year and making money for the club to improve steadily!! 

[Super]

1 hour ago, westonred said:

There needs to be a total shake up starting with Mark Ashton our recruitment is a joke we are crying out for a decent forward and instead of bringing in a Marriott or Abraham who were both keen to come (allegedly) we always bring in the cheap option Eisa and Adelakun are players for the future and no way ready for championship football. Look also at the last January window what an absolute joke,  Diony had anyone actually seen the guy play before getting him in on loan ?  We also need a good creative attacking midfielder as we have no one to open up an oppostions defence .  LJ seems tactic less he doesnt know his best starting 11 makes poor subsitutions (most of the time) and the football we are playing since the Man Utd game has been dire

Thats why i think we need a change now !!  

Is it me or do we only seem to hear from him when things are going well?!

[keynshamred]

5 minutes ago, TMWANG50 said:

Id say be careful what you wish for in the current situation as I will explain using our latest opponents Ipswich as an example (some will argue its chalk and cheese but I think there are a few parallels);

Management - Mick McCarthy - similar to Johnson didn't play a great style of football and the "fans" wanted to move away from average league positions (16th & 12th in last 2 seasons) & performances and move on to a new man. Similar to us they have a decent fan base but don't want to spend mega money so go with a young manager with a good record in the lower leagues. This didn't work out very quickly now they have Lambert again not a stella appointment and he now has a massive job on his hands in half a season. Which makes you wonder who we would attract if Johnson was relieved of his duties using Ipswich's recruitment as a comparative?

Players out - Lost 3 key players in the summer - Waghorn, Webster, Garner for a combined £10m. Sound familiar?

Players In - again despite making money in the market they sign 3 players for a lot less for around £3m with a good record at a lower level in Harrison, Jackson, Williams but now all struggling to make the grade in a new team at a higher level. We may  have spent nearer £10m and gone more with experience but we are in a similar struggle to get the new boys either in the team or performing at a consistent level compared to the players who have moved on.

We maybe very disheartened with mid table and the performances this year but I'd rather be here than where they are?

There may have been very little between the two teams on the night but at the moment I would say we are "hopefully" heading in different directions with a bit of patience, players back from injury and maybe having a look at a couple of new faces in January!

 

Bloody Brilliant post!!! That's what I keep saying. Be careful what you wish for. We are 34th best team in this country. 58 team have more reason to moan than us. Just enjoy the ride!! We have a manger and chairman that have this club at heart and will do there best to improve our current good position over the coming years!!! 

[RobintheRed Red]

8 minutes ago, keynshamred said:

Yeah well I will carry on going every week and for the last god knows how many years. I am happy to be a mid table club playing in a top league. I can assure you I'm proud to support the club and have a top chairman and manager that loves the club!! Good times, as in the prem aren't many years away under this regime! Good young players improving every year and making money for the club to improve steadily!! 

All about opinions mate it ain't gonna happen kelly next one out the door fifty eight years of hope four years in top flight i hope it happens for you

[BobBobSuperBob]

25 minutes ago, keynshamred said:

Yeah well I will carry on going every week and for the last god knows how many years. I am happy to be a mid table club playing in a top league. I can assure you I'm proud to support the club and have a top chairman and manager that loves the club!! Good times, as in the prem aren't many years away under this regime! Good young players improving every year and making money for the club to improve steadily!! 

 

ok then

[Natchfever]

1 hour ago, Alessandro said:

I think you've inadvertently hit the nail on the head. 

He is doing an average job. If he was as bad, if we were as bad, as some people like to portray we are, we would have been relegated for the last 2 seasons in a row, and will get relegated this year.

And yet, despite things being awful, we sit, nearly 20 games in, nearly half way through the season - mid table, closer to the top 6 than the bottom 3. So perhaps we need to take a breath and a step back.

Again - it all comes down to EXPECTATIONS - most people sensibly agree we are mid-table fodder - which means runs of defeats and winless periods, then a series of wins - never really looking like troubling the top 6 whilst maintaining the 'fear' of a relegation slip. That's mid-table football.

But people can't help themselves and even though they say they're realists, get sucked in to the idea of "What if" - what if we a different manager, if we bought this player etc etc we might, might be in with a promotion chance. That's not be realistic, but secretly optimistic. Deep down all the Jouters afraid of relegation are secret optimists. 

 

 

That's an interesting take on things.

I would though contend that people's expectations this season have been set by the owner to a great extent.

[Lrrr]

1 hour ago, westonred said:

There needs to be a total shake up starting with Mark Ashton our recruitment is a joke we are crying out for a decent forward and instead of bringing in a Marriott or Abraham who were both keen to come (allegedly) we always bring in the cheap option Eisa and Adelakun are players for the future and no way ready for championship football. Look also at the last January window what an absolute joke,  Diony had anyone actually seen the guy play before getting him in on loan ?  We also need a good creative attacking midfielder as we have no one to open up an oppostions defence .  LJ seems tactic less he doesnt know his best starting 11 makes poor subsitutions (most of the time) and the football we are playing since the Man Utd game has been dire

Thats why i think we need a change now !!  

Be interested to know where you've heard both were interested in coming? Marriott is a Chelsea fan so as soon as he knew Lampard wanted him he wanted to go to Derby and Tammy, well he's on £50,000 a week, Chelsea have probably got Villa paying that and a loan fee to take him so it's well out of our range even if we were interested in taking him. 

[westonred]

6 minutes ago, hodge said:

Be interested to know where you've heard both were interested in coming? Marriott is a Chelsea fan so as soon as he knew Lampard wanted him he wanted to go to Derby and Tammy, well he's on £50,000 a week, Chelsea have probably got Villa paying that and a loan fee to take him so it's well out of our range even if we were interested in taking him. 

Tammy himself said he would love to come back to BS3 and play for us again. Whilst Marriott was away on his honeymoon his best mate congratulated him on Twitter for signing for BCFC  (apparently a done deal upon his return)  However Derby showed there interest as soon as Lampard was installed as manager and he chose them instead